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Getting the L out of LGBT

calamity

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The wife says this is all the rage in the Twittersphere. I'm not much into the tweeting world, so I look for it in Googleland. It seems to have begun about a year ago, and I guess it's picking up steam.

https://radfemrepost.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/petition-get-the-l-out-of-lgbt/

We represent Lesbians who demand that the petitioned drop the L from their organisation names, and drop the L when reporting about any LGBT issues not directly related to lesbians since they do not represent our interests. The petitioned did not heed a petition to drop the T, leaving us with no choice but to remove the L from the LGBT.

The addition of T to the LGBT has resulted in Lesbians being silenced and threatened, all women and girls to be at risk for our safety, and our interests to take a backseat to those of transgenderist males who co-opt our name and culture.

The mission statements and resource allocation of LGBT orgs not only prioritize T but actively discriminate against L interests....

I can imagine that when lesbians are told that they are bigots for not accepting men with penises who claim to be women as lesbians that the end of the marriage between "L" and the "GBT" is bound to be the end result. Writing on the wall, if you ask me.
 

OrphanSlug

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I guess that is up to them, but might argue that they would have less of a voice on more broad social issues if enough lesbians remove themselves from the general LGBT movement.
 

calamity

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I guess that is up to them, but might argue that they would have less of a voice on more broad social issues if enough lesbians remove themselves from the general LGBT movement.

Lesbians have been pushed aside by gay men and Trans for the most part for years. It makes sense to just align themselves with feminists and fight for women's rights. Few people in the straight world really hate lesbians anyway. Most of the gay hate is aimed at homosexual men.
 

eohrnberger

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The wife says this is all the rage in the Twittersphere. I'm not much into the tweeting world, so I look for it in Googleland. It seems to have begun about a year ago, and I guess it's picking up steam.

https://radfemrepost.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/petition-get-the-l-out-of-lgbt/



I can imagine that when lesbians are told that they are bigots for not accepting men with penises who claim to be women as lesbians that the end of the marriage between "L" and the "GBT" is bound to be the end result. Writing on the wall, if you ask me.

Fractionalize, disperse, and become ineffective?
 

OrphanSlug

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Lesbians have been pushed aside by gay men and Trans for the most part for years. It makes sense to just align themselves with feminists and fight for women's rights. Few people in the straight world really hate lesbians anyway. Most of the gay hate is aimed at homosexual men.

I think the bigger issue is looking at how issues that the LGBT group take on, would be different if Lesbians removed themselves from that voice and offered their own. Lesbians and " feminists and fight for women's rights" probably do have plenty of overlap where they could at least advance those discussions. My worry would be Gays and Transgenders becoming adversarial to Lesbians every so often to the point of diluting those conversations.

I get the position that the LGBT movement has been derailed a bit by the Transgender movement, in terms of benefit (for a lack of a better term) to Lesbians specifically. Everything from social acceptance to where someone goes to the bathroom dominates the news today, 6 months to a year ago it was Marriage Equality that is more impacting to Lesbians. But it becomes a bit argumentative that the direction of the LGBT group overall will eventually exclude issues more germane to Lesbians monumentally.

I guess that is my way of saying this effort to sever off Lesbians from the LGBT movement might be overreaction to present social issues being discussed. I think there is still plenty of room for Lesbians to have a voice through the movement overall. But I'll offer I might be in the minority on that thinking.
 

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Another minority group? Who can keep up?
 

calamity

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I think the bigger issue is looking at how issues that the LGBT group take on, would be different if Lesbians removed themselves from that voice and offered their own. Lesbians and " feminists and fight for women's rights" probably do have plenty of overlap where they could at least advance those discussions. My worry would be Gays and Transgenders becoming adversarial to Lesbians every so often to the point of diluting those conversations.

I get the position that the LGBT movement has been derailed a bit by the Transgender movement, in terms of benefit (for a lack of a better term) to Lesbians specifically. Everything from social acceptance to where someone goes to the bathroom dominates the news today, 6 months to a year ago it was Marriage Equality that is more impacting to Lesbians. But it becomes a bit argumentative that the direction of the LGBT group overall will eventually exclude issues more germane to Lesbians monumentally.

I guess that is my way of saying this effort to sever off Lesbians from the LGBT movement might be overreaction to present social issues being discussed. I think there is still plenty of room for Lesbians to have a voice through the movement overall. But I'll offer I might be in the minority on that thinking.

Yeah. I don't know what to make of it all. It just seems rather obvious though that LGBT is morphing into a men's rights group (since the majority of the Trans issues are really about males identifying as trans women; few people complain about the trans man) more than it is concerned with Lesbian rights at the moment. But, that's just me looking at it from the outside.
 

calamity

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OrphanSlug

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Yeah. I don't know what to make of it all. It just seems rather obvious though that LGBT is morphing into a men's rights group (since the majority of the Trans issues are really about males identifying as trans women; few people complain about the trans man) more than it is concerned with Lesbian rights at the moment. But, that's just me looking at it from the outside.

I am somewhat on the fence for this as you are.

On one hand the complaint from Lesbians makes sense given recent events, on the other I would reiterate eohrnberger's comments (#4 post above) on division leading to ineffective representation on issues that impact the lot of them.
 

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Ok, I thought this thread was going to be about the fact that having both lesbian and gay in your name is separating gays into genders, but nope.

Anyway, transgenders/transsexuals being part of the group has always been forced. At the beginning transgenders/transsexuals were largely rejected by gays and so was the idea of adding them to their group.
 

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I guess that is up to them, but might argue that they would have less of a voice on more broad social issues if enough lesbians remove themselves from the general LGBT movement.

Personally I think the opposite especially if they think their organizations have been hijacked, as they seem to think they have NO voice now.
 

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The wife says this is all the rage in the Twittersphere. I'm not much into the tweeting world, so I look for it in Googleland. It seems to have begun about a year ago, and I guess it's picking up steam.

https://radfemrepost.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/petition-get-the-l-out-of-lgbt/



I can imagine that when lesbians are told that they are bigots for not accepting men with penises who claim to be women as lesbians that the end of the marriage between "L" and the "GBT" is bound to be the end result. Writing on the wall, if you ask me.

The L always seemed a bit redundant to me with the G anyway.
 

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I support the BLT movement, we're talking about sandwiches right?
 

calamity

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Ok, I thought this thread was going to be about the fact that having both lesbian and gay in your name is separating gays into genders, but nope.

Anyway, transgenders/transsexuals being part of the group has always been forced. At the beginning transgenders/transsexuals were largely rejected by gays and so was the idea of adding them to their group.

They are adding even more letters, like Q for Queer, to the list. IMO, they will eventually include so many oddball groups with conflicting interests that infighting will, of course, be an end result.
 

calamity

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I support the BLT movement, we're talking about sandwiches right?

blt-set-free-overlay-bg.jpg
 

calamity

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The L always seemed a bit redundant to me with the G anyway.

And, you should see how much heat you get when you say something like "Gay" lifestyles are at high risk for AIDs. Invariably, some smart ass will think he is making a winning argument, usually while also calling you an idiot, by pointing out that Lesbians are not at risk for AIDS. I think they keep it confusing on purpose. It's a battle strategy.
 

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And, you should see how much heat you get when you say something like "Gay" lifestyles are at high risk for AIDs. Invariably, some smart ass will think he is making a winning argument, usually while also calling you an idiot, by pointing out that Lesbians are not at risk for AIDS. I think they keep it confusing on purpose. It's a battle strategy.

Maybe they should change it to HBT
 

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Another minority group? Who can keep up?
It's a divisive election year, so I think it has more to do with creating wedge issues that the left hopes will energize their voters to turn out.
 

roguenuke

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Hey look something that really isn't happening at all and is just a fringe group calling for this.

https://www.change.org/p/hrc-glaad-nclr-lambda-legal-the-advocate-huffpo-gay-voices-we-are-getting-the-l-out-of-the-lgbt

They have just 290 signatures in 7 months. That isn't exactly a large movement. There are millions of lesbians just in the US. It doesn't surprise anyone that some don't like transgender people. It is interesting though that those who generally don't care for one or either group would think this is some actual sign of some sort of division.

When I was aboard the ship was when my sister "came out" to us, her family. She sent us all an email. I was actually a little confused at the time being my naive self then, thinking that those who felt like they were trapped in the wrong body were also at least mostly also attracted to someone of the opposite sex as they identified. One of the girls I considered a friend (I didn't feel that way about all of the girls I worked with), was a lesbian who showed me a movie "Better Than Chocolate" (1999) when I talked to her about my sister coming out. It is a Canadian drama about lesbians, censorship and even a transgender woman who basically has a side story of her own in the movie. I now own this movie myself because it made me a little less naive about what some transgenders face (even if part of the plot line of a movie). Some of the lesbians in that movie called the transgender lesbian a "freak" and that she didn't belong in their restroom. It isn't something new, but it also isn't a sentiment held by a majority of lesbians either. In fact, I'm willing to bet there are gay men who will not date a transgender man and likely some who are also not accepting of transgender women. This isn't some universal "all in" thing. People are all different.
 

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Personally I think the opposite especially if they think their organizations have been hijacked, as they seem to think they have NO voice now.

it seems to me they were hijacked a long time ago by the prevailing machismo culture that constantly expressed their enthusiasm for lesbian porn, but who've never expressed any interest in badly needed civil rights for lesbians

face it, the female voice has always been relatively muted in our (and almost every) culture
 

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I think the bigger issue is looking at how issues that the LGBT group take on, would be different if Lesbians removed themselves from that voice and offered their own. Lesbians and " feminists and fight for women's rights" probably do have plenty of overlap where they could at least advance those discussions. My worry would be Gays and Transgenders becoming adversarial to Lesbians every so often to the point of diluting those conversations.

I get the position that the LGBT movement has been derailed a bit by the Transgender movement, in terms of benefit (for a lack of a better term) to Lesbians specifically. Everything from social acceptance to where someone goes to the bathroom dominates the news today, 6 months to a year ago it was Marriage Equality that is more impacting to Lesbians. But it becomes a bit argumentative that the direction of the LGBT group overall will eventually exclude issues more germane to Lesbians monumentally.

I guess that is my way of saying this effort to sever off Lesbians from the LGBT movement might be overreaction to present social issues being discussed. I think there is still plenty of room for Lesbians to have a voice through the movement overall. But I'll offer I might be in the minority on that thinking.

it actually sounds more like you're saying that lesbians should abandon the GBT movement in pursuit of their own interests. Excuse me while i barf at this thought, since there remains so much overlap in common goals, such as employment and public accomodation rights in 30+ states

the 'bathroom bills' are unenforceable and will be dead within 2 years tops, probably sooner given the backlash in the first state....which is the cause of the media coverage. They could cause a rift if they dragged on for 2 decades like gay marriage, but it won't happen
 

Redress

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The wife says this is all the rage in the Twittersphere. I'm not much into the tweeting world, so I look for it in Googleland. It seems to have begun about a year ago, and I guess it's picking up steam.

https://radfemrepost.wordpress.com/2015/11/09/petition-get-the-l-out-of-lgbt/



I can imagine that when lesbians are told that they are bigots for not accepting men with penises who claim to be women as lesbians that the end of the marriage between "L" and the "GBT" is bound to be the end result. Writing on the wall, if you ask me.

Oh for ****s sake, it is a ****ing Wordpress blog, and a dead one. The petition failed, miserably. Reading, it really helps you not fail, like this thread has.
 

calamity

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Hey look something that really isn't happening at all and is just a fringe group calling for this.

https://www.change.org/p/hrc-glaad-nclr-lambda-legal-the-advocate-huffpo-gay-voices-we-are-getting-the-l-out-of-the-lgbt

They have just 290 signatures in 7 months. That isn't exactly a large movement. There are millions of lesbians just in the US. It doesn't surprise anyone that some don't like transgender people. It is interesting though that those who generally don't care for one or either group would think this is some actual sign of some sort of division.

When I was aboard the ship was when my sister "came out" to us, her family. She sent us all an email. I was actually a little confused at the time being my naive self then, thinking that those who felt like they were trapped in the wrong body were also at least mostly also attracted to someone of the opposite sex as they identified. One of the girls I considered a friend (I didn't feel that way about all of the girls I worked with), was a lesbian who showed me a movie "Better Than Chocolate" (1999) when I talked to her about my sister coming out. It is a Canadian drama about lesbians, censorship and even a transgender woman who basically has a side story of her own in the movie. I now own this movie myself because it made me a little less naive about what some transgenders face (even if part of the plot line of a movie). Some of the lesbians in that movie called the transgender lesbian a "freak" and that she didn't belong in their restroom. It isn't something new, but it also isn't a sentiment held by a majority of lesbians either. In fact, I'm willing to bet there are gay men who will not date a transgender man and likely some who are also not accepting of transgender women. This isn't some universal "all in" thing. People are all different.
The more I read about trans women, the more I see that many of them are simply heterosexual men who, for some reason, are attracted to the idea of "being" a woman too. I can see why lesbians don't want any part of that.
 

Redress

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The more I read about trans women, the more I see that many of them are simply heterosexual men who, for some reason, are attracted to the idea of "being" a woman too. I can see why lesbians don't want any part of that.

So you think everyone is as ignorant on the topic as you? And why did you entirely fail to address the point she made? And do you really think many lesbians want you speaking for them?
 

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Nothing but extremist bigots who hold no major sway within the LGBT community or movement. Best to just ignore these nutjobs.
 
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