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Get rid of Obamacare? What would you replace it with?

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
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Obamacare won't be repealed. Under the Roberts Court, it is settled law. In addition, any attempt to defund Obamacare, using the debt ceiling as a hostage, or threatening to shut down the government. will end up destroying the Republican party, since a vast majority of people are now in favor of it. The more moderate faction of the Republican party sees this, and will undermine any attempt by the Tea Party faction to carry this out. Thus, any attempt at this will fail in the House, as it already has, many times in the past. Like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay.

Obamacare? It's a mixed bag. Having the Federal government dictate our health care is a repugnant idea, but what is the alternative? Emergency rooms? Do you have any idea how much THAT costs the taxpayers? At least, with the individual mandate, the taxpayers will be recovering some of what they lose when people go to the emergency room, and then not pay for the visit.

Here is what I would like to see. What would YOU advocate as a replacement for Obamacare, would it be a better option, and how and why?

I would like to see some serious ideas. "Obamacare is a Leebrul Communist conspiracy" or "Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare because they hate poor people" are NOT valid ideas. They are stupid and moronic troll posts, so don't be a moron or a troll. If you have an idea, I would certainly like to see it. If you have no ideas, but still feel, for a legitimate reason, that Obamacare needs to go, then that is OK, but please explain why, and explain intelligently, and I will have no problem with that.

Bottom line here..... Is health care a right, or is it a privilege to be enjoyed by only those who can pay for it, or who you feel deserve it? If it is a right, then explain why you support it. If it is a privilege, then explain why you don't support it. And, more importantly, if there is a better way than Obamacare to offer health care to the American people, I would certainly like to hear it.

At this time, my lean is against Obamacare, but I have an open mind. Convince me, one way or the other.
 
Obamacare won't be repealed. Under the Roberts Court, it is settled law. In addition, any attempt to defund Obamacare, using the debt ceiling as a hostage, or threatening to shut down the government. will end up destroying the Republican party, since a vast majority of people are now in favor of it. The more moderate faction of the Republican party sees this, and will undermine any attempt by the Tea Party faction to carry this out. Thus, any attempt at this will fail in the House, as it already has, many times in the past. Like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay.

Obamacare? It's a mixed bag. Having the Federal government dictate our health care is a repugnant idea, but what is the alternative? Emergency rooms? Do you have any idea how much THAT costs the taxpayers? At least, with the individual mandate, the taxpayers will be recovering some of what they lose when people go to the emergency room, and then not pay for the visit.

Here is what I would like to see. What would YOU advocate as a replacement for Obamacare, would it be a better option, and how and why?

I would like to see some serious ideas. "Obamacare is a Leebrul Communist conspiracy" or "Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare because they hate poor people" are NOT valid ideas. They are stupid and moronic troll posts, so don't be a moron or a troll. If you have an idea, I would certainly like to see it. If you have no ideas, but still feel, for a legitimate reason, that Obamacare needs to go, then that is OK, but please explain why, and explain intelligently, and I will have no problem with that.

Bottom line here..... Is health care a right, or is it a privilege to be enjoyed by only those who can pay for it, or who you feel deserve it? If it is a right, then explain why you support it. If it is a privilege, then explain why you don't support it. And, more importantly, if there is a better way than Obamacare to offer health care to the American people, I would certainly like to hear it.

At this time, my lean is against Obamacare, but I have an open mind. Convince me, one way or the other.

Insurance should be pretty much voluntary.

Set a minimum policy level that covers the basics for men and women (office visits, prescription drugs, vaccinations, basic screenings based on your sex, etc) and all companies can offer it in any State they want. Have real competition for business with apples to apples plans. No making men buy OB/GYN coverage and no making women buy vasectomy coverage. You buy your own coverage.

I would limit what insurance companies could consider a pre-existing condition, just because you smoked for a year 20 years ago should not make you have a pre-existing condition. No turning down for pre-existing conditions up to a certain date (say 6 months or a year after the law passed) so you can't wait to get sick then buy insurance but if you already are you can get coverage. I would consider subsidies for costly diseases.

I would also come up with a catastrophic coverage plan that everyone is required to have.

If you want an options you buy a better than minimum policy.
 
Obamacare won't be repealed. Under the Roberts Court, it is settled law. In addition, any attempt to defund Obamacare, using the debt ceiling as a hostage, or threatening to shut down the government. will end up destroying the Republican party, since a vast majority of people are now in favor of it. The more moderate faction of the Republican party sees this, and will undermine any attempt by the Tea Party faction to carry this out. Thus, any attempt at this will fail in the House, as it already has, many times in the past. Like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay.

Obamacare? It's a mixed bag. Having the Federal government dictate our health care is a repugnant idea, but what is the alternative? Emergency rooms? Do you have any idea how much THAT costs the taxpayers? At least, with the individual mandate, the taxpayers will be recovering some of what they lose when people go to the emergency room, and then not pay for the visit.

Here is what I would like to see. What would YOU advocate as a replacement for Obamacare, would it be a better option, and how and why?

I would like to see some serious ideas. "Obamacare is a Leebrul Communist conspiracy" or "Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare because they hate poor people" are NOT valid ideas. They are stupid and moronic troll posts, so don't be a moron or a troll. If you have an idea, I would certainly like to see it. If you have no ideas, but still feel, for a legitimate reason, that Obamacare needs to go, then that is OK, but please explain why, and explain intelligently, and I will have no problem with that.

Bottom line here..... Is health care a right, or is it a privilege to be enjoyed by only those who can pay for it, or who you feel deserve it? If it is a right, then explain why you support it. If it is a privilege, then explain why you don't support it. And, more importantly, if there is a better way than Obamacare to offer health care to the American people, I would certainly like to hear it.

At this time, my lean is against Obamacare, but I have an open mind. Convince me, one way or the other.

Health care in the U.S. is indeed a mess, but more because of how it is paid for than anything else. When there is a third party payer then the actual cost of the service is of little importance, since you look at your cost alone, which is now primarily the insurance premium, deductable and copay costs. Most have their insurance premiums paid for as a taxfree benefit of their employment, so that cost is largely hidden and ignored, the deductable is important only in years that it is actually hit (very rarely) and the concentration is then on the copay amount which is fairly low and fixed regardless of the actual cost of care received - the same copay applies for a routine blood test as for setting a broken bone (it is independent of actual service cost).

Insurance is designed for handling the rare, unexpected and expensive events in life, not for handling routine day to day expenses. Imagine what your auto premiums would be if they covered worn tire replacement, tune-ups and oil changes. Imagine what your homeowner's/renter's insurance premiums would be if they covered periodic repainting, worn appliance/fruniture replacement and lawn maintanence. But many have come to expect that their normal medical care expenses will be paid fully or at least partially by insurance.

The ideal medical care system would include a catastrophic medical care insurance policy (CMCI) and a medical savings account (MSA) and be paid for out of pretax income directly by the policy holder. No more employer provided tax exempt plans (the unions will fight this hard) will be allowed. Now that the customer has incentive to not get screwed, since they pay for most care out of their MSA/pocket, the cost of care becomes actually important. The insurance premium amounts can be guided by gov't oversight, but should not be limitted further than sound actuarial evidence dictates and penalties for being unisured can be applied to premiums, but not to the extent of complete denial (the hardest part to work out).

Obviously many of the young and healthy will want to avoid any CMCI and MSA expenses, they love to party & spend but are cocky & confident that no illness will befall them (yet). This is what the PPACA individual mandate was designed to prevent, but likely will not do very well. What will work, IMHO, is to make using ER care that you cannot afford (stealing it?) into a property crime just like shoplifting or "grazing" in a grocery store - basically you are stealing that care by forcing others to pay more for their care to cover the expense of yours.

The cost of a CMCI policy decreases (a lot) as the deductable increases, so as your MSA balance grows you can continue to increase your CMCI deductable with relative financial safety, this is easiest if the MSA is started while you are young and healthy. Once in the habit of making payments to your CMCI and MSA, just like paying your other bills, it becomes relatively painless. Should you experience a major medical expense, that seriously depleats your MSA, you can then reduce your CMCI deductable accordingly.
 
Unless you are willing to push people to the curb you are going to have to have UHC.
 
What's your question. If I though it should be completely voluntary I would have said that.

So what your saying is that forcing, by law, people to buy a health insurance plan would be classified by you as "pretty much voluntary"?
 
So what your saying is that forcing, by law, people to buy a health insurance plan would be classified by you as "pretty much voluntary"?

Only make them buy catastrophic coverage. That is pretty much it, yeah.
 
So if your are ethically ok with making people pay for catastrophic coverage, why not all coverage?
Only make them buy catastrophic coverage. That is pretty much it, yeah.
 
So if your are ethically ok with making people pay for catastrophic coverage, why not all coverage?

I'm not, and I'm not.
 
So if your are ethically ok with making people pay for catastrophic coverage, why not all coverage?

Because whether you want to go to a doctor because you feel like you have the flu is your choice. If you want to have regular check-ups that's up to you. If you want to have a mole removed, your call. If you use these services then you should have the choice on whether to use insurance to help pay for them or pay it yourself.
But if you have a heart attack then I think you should be required to have insurance so you don't lose everything for something you may have had no control over and cannot predict happening.

That is really what insurance is for, big unpredictable expenses. You don't have homeowners insurance to pay for the yard upkeep or for painting the house. You have it in case your house burns down or a tree falls through the roof.
 
You realize that catastrophic coverage is health insurance right?

Well uh yeah, that's why I included in what I think should be done to health insurance. You do realize it is a separate type of policy you can buy right now don't you?
 
Ok, so what are you gonna do with a poor person shows up at the ER?

How's it going Jimbo?

Doin fine Mak, and if I find myself with a medical problem, I've got it covered.

I don't recall addressing poor people, just addressing the ethics of forcing people to pay for others insurance.
 
I heard Levin making a not too accurate analogy between healthcare and car insurance once. He was trying to say since car insurance doesnt cover basic maintence and upkeep health care shouldnt either. I think that is probably where this came from.
 
The reason I brought up poor people is if they dont have insurace or a means to pay for their health care, you have 2 choices, push them to the curb or pay for it. You can pay for thier insurance or their healthcare. But you cant not pay.
Doin fine Mak, and if I find myself with a medical problem, I've got it covered.

I don't recall addressing poor people, just addressing the ethics of forcing people to pay for others insurance.
 
I heard Levin making a not too accurate analogy between healthcare and car insurance once. He was trying to say since car insurance doesnt cover basic maintence and upkeep health care shouldnt either. I think that is probably where this came from.

To a degree it is like that. You have to have coverage for someone else who you may injure in an accident; You don't have to have coverage to repair you car or to pay your own medical bills.

No one buys any other type of insurance for 'basic maintenance', they buy it for worst case scenarios. Why would we force people to pay for maintenance they may not need?
 
Well uh yeah, that's why I included in what I think should be done to health insurance. You do realize it is a separate type of policy you can buy right now don't you?

You really don't see anything wrong with what you said? You will make insurance "pretty much voluntary" by forcing people to buy a form of health insurance?

You're proposing ObamaCare, except with slightly different minimum coverage options. And then pretending that because you only mandate catastrophic coverage, that really it's "pretty much voluntary".

You don't see the problem with that?
 
You really don't see anything wrong with what you said?

Nope. The only thing I see wrong is you have a comprehension problem.

I know it's early in the school year but they will get to the par t where they teach you to think. If you still have a problem understanding what I said then get with the teacher for some extra work. I'll give you a hand, pretty much means almost. So when I said pretty much voluntary it meant almost voluntary.
 
You're proposing ObamaCare, except with slightly different minimum coverage options. And then pretending that because you only mandate catastrophic coverage, that really it's "pretty much voluntary".

I am proposing nothing like Obamacare as having basic insurance should be completely voluntary.
 
Obamacare won't be repealed. Under the Roberts Court, it is settled law. In addition, any attempt to defund Obamacare, using the debt ceiling as a hostage, or threatening to shut down the government. will end up destroying the Republican party, since a vast majority of people are now in favor of it. The more moderate faction of the Republican party sees this, and will undermine any attempt by the Tea Party faction to carry this out. Thus, any attempt at this will fail in the House, as it already has, many times in the past. Like it or not, Obamacare is here to stay.

Obamacare? It's a mixed bag. Having the Federal government dictate our health care is a repugnant idea, but what is the alternative? Emergency rooms? Do you have any idea how much THAT costs the taxpayers? At least, with the individual mandate, the taxpayers will be recovering some of what they lose when people go to the emergency room, and then not pay for the visit.

Here is what I would like to see. What would YOU advocate as a replacement for Obamacare, would it be a better option, and how and why?

I would like to see some serious ideas. "Obamacare is a Leebrul Communist conspiracy" or "Republicans want to get rid of Obamacare because they hate poor people" are NOT valid ideas. They are stupid and moronic troll posts, so don't be a moron or a troll. If you have an idea, I would certainly like to see it. If you have no ideas, but still feel, for a legitimate reason, that Obamacare needs to go, then that is OK, but please explain why, and explain intelligently, and I will have no problem with that.

Bottom line here..... Is health care a right, or is it a privilege to be enjoyed by only those who can pay for it, or who you feel deserve it? If it is a right, then explain why you support it. If it is a privilege, then explain why you don't support it. And, more importantly, if there is a better way than Obamacare to offer health care to the American people, I would certainly like to hear it.

At this time, my lean is against Obamacare, but I have an open mind. Convince me, one way or the other.

How about a plane ticket to France?
 
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