Get rid of Obamacare? What would you replace it with?

[Harshaw]

Getting rid of third-party payers would help tremendously with transparency.

 

[Harshaw]

I think you're underestimating the degree to which those overlap with Obamacare. A number of Enzi's steps are in Obamacare (in fact, the language from his tort reform section was copied verbatim into Obamacare), the Patients Choice Act was built around state-based exchanges as was Obamacare, etc.

Plenty of those ideas appear in some variation in the law, which is part of the reason the GOP has had such difficulty coalescing around a real alternative since it passed.

Not really the point. I don't endorse or not endorse anything there, only that there are alternatives. Every car has wheels, seats, an engine, and a steering wheel, but some cars are better than others.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Honestly, nothing will matter until we get some transparency into health costs.

When an operation can cost $500 in one place and $50,000 in another, we have a severe information problem.

We gotta fix that before anything else.

The same is true of housing costs, how would you "fix" that?

 

[obvious Child]

The same is true of housing costs, how would you "fix" that?

Why do you say it's the same of housing costs? Housing IMO is pretty transparent with all of the information on surrounding lots being public information and easily accessible on your phone.

Medical costs are hidden behind feet of proverbial steel walls.

 

[mak2]

Supply and demand simply does not work in healtcare. That is why there is no real proposal from the Republicans.

Honestly, nothing will matter until we get some transparency into health costs.

When an operation can cost $500 in one place and $50,000 in another, we have a severe information problem.

We gotta fix that before anything else.

 

[obvious Child]

Supply and demand simply does not work in healtcare.

What makes you say that? Thailand is benefiting from medical tourism. Seems supply and demand works there.

That is why there is no real proposal from the Republicans.

I'd argue that there is no real proposal from the GOP because they have no ideas for healthcare. Obama stole most of them.

 

[mak2]

Because I cannot refuse medical care due to expense if I would die.

What makes you say that? Thailand is benefiting from medical tourism. Seems supply and demand works there.



I'd argue that there is no real proposal from the GOP because they have no ideas for healthcare. Obama stole most of them.

 

[sawdust]

There was nothing wrong with health care in America. We have the best equipped hospitals, skilled doctors and nurses and we compare well with the rest of the world technologically.

There are problems within the insurance industry however many of those problems have been created by government. Managed care was a governmental creation that created problems with patient care many disliked. Congress took too much control using it's authority to regulate interstate commerce that stifled competition within the insurance industry.

Frankly, there are things that government can do to improve insurance. We would be better off as a nation if we went back to the days before Obamacare and took steps which protected patients, increased competition between insurance companies and lowered costs. All Obamacare really does is lock in extra profits for drug companies and force people to buy a product they don't want and I don't care what John Roberts thinks.

 

[mak2]

No, it is the greed. Period.

There was nothing wrong with health care in America. We have the best equipped hospitals, skilled doctors and nurses and we compare well with the rest of the world technologically.

There are problems within the insurance industry however many of those problems have been created by government. Managed care was a governmental creation that created problems with patient care many disliked. Congress took too much control using it's authority to regulate interstate commerce that stifled competition within the insurance industry.

Frankly, there are things that government can do to improve insurance. We would be better off as a nation if we went back to the days before Obamacare and took steps which protected patients, increased competition between insurance companies and lowered costs. All Obamacare really does is lock in extra profits for drug companies and force people to buy a product they don't want and I don't care what John Roberts thinks.

 

[sawdust]

No, it is the greed. Period.

I disagree. We have the best equipment because our health care system is for profit. That profit gets reinvested in technology and improvement in patient care. I had a friend living in Belgium and was treated for cancer in one of their hospitals. During a heat wave that killed people in Paris, I visited her. She had extra insurance so she was in a private room. She had just gotten out of surgery and was recovering in her room. Her hospital couldn't afford central air conditioning so the window was open, it was probably about 95 degrees in her room and her bed was soaked from her sweat.

I don't even want to hear about greed. Profit is a good thing.

 

[mak2]

Anecdotal. Our system is badly flawed, you (the colletive right) dont understand that simply because of all the things you dont want to hear.

I disagree. We have the best equipment because our health care system is for profit. That profit gets reinvested in technology and improvement in patient care. I had a friend living in Belgium and was treated for cancer in one of their hospitals. During a heat wave that killed people in Paris, I visited her. She had extra insurance so she was in a private room. She had just gotten out of surgery and was recovering in her room. Her hospital couldn't afford central air conditioning so the window was open, it was probably about 95 degrees in her room and her bed was soaked from her sweat.

I don't even want to hear about greed. Profit is a good thing.

 

[sawdust]

Anecdotal. Our system is badly flawed, you (the colletive right) dont understand that simply because of all the things you dont want to hear.

Nonsense. You brought up greed, which is your personal opinion. I pointed out that profit is not greed and that profit has allowed us to build the most advanced health care system in the world. I think assertions of greed in the health care system are foolish.

We might agree that the insurance industry needs to be reformed.

With your assertion that my experience is anecdotal, to a certain extent it is however I have had the experience to see socialized medicine at work in Europe and the quality of care there is dictated by money just like everywhere else. They have universal access to what in many instances is a quality of care which is not up to American standards. Dismiss it if you want but it's reality.

 

[jonny5]

Replace it with nothing. The federal govt does not have the power to regulate healtcare. In fact, start repealing the rest of the federal health laws, including medicare.

 

[jonny5]

Which has been attempted more than a dozen times. Obamacare is here to stay, whether we like it or not. I am being pragmatic in my argument here. I am not crazy about Obamacare either, but am looking for something that it could be replaced with. I have seen some decent ideas from both Conservatives and Liberals in this thread, which means that some kind of common ground exists, which could be used to hammer out a better solution than what we have now.

So what kind of solution exists, within the framework of Obamacare, that both Liberals and Conservatives could spin as a victory, and save face? I believe that this is the only paradigm that would work at this time, in light of the present political situation.

Obamacare, or any law, requires congress to appropriate spending for implementation. That requires the continuing consent of both houses of congresses. They lost that consent in 2010. So it might as well be repealed, since the people elected to Republicans who wont fund it.

 

[TheNextEra]

I pointed out that profit is not greed and that profit has allowed us to build the most advanced health care system in the world.

Profit CAN be greed though. If during a hurricane I jack up my water price to $100 per gallon, you're actually telling me that isn't greed?

 

[mak2]

Which is exaclty what happens with healthcare, all the time, not just when there is a hurricaine.

Profit CAN be greed though. If during a hurricane I jack up my water price to $100 per gallon, you're actually telling me that isn't greed?

 

[TheNextEra]

Which is exaclty what happens with healthcare, all the time, not just when there is a hurricaine.

I agree. we have a problem in this country with Health Care costs.

 

[sawdust]

Profit CAN be greed though. If during a hurricane I jack up my water price to $100 per gallon, you're actually telling me that isn't greed?

Great example of supply and demand in a free market. What happens when there is scarcity of water after a hurricane? Government can't fill all the demand so private individuals try to fill it at a profit. Soon others hear of that profit and add to the supply. Soon supply meets demand and prices normalize.

Look at what has happened. People get water they need at a faster rate than they would have under normal circumstances. There is a short term spike in price ending in normal pricing but in the end people get what they need.

Take away the profit motive and what happens? Thirst is what happens.

 

[obvious Child]

Because I cannot refuse medical care due to expense if I would die.

But that doesn't mean the whole supply demand can't work in non-vital aspects of healthcare.

 

[mak2]

All I know is it doesnt and hasnt since doctors got tired of being paid in chickens and millk and came up with the idea of insurance.

But that doesn't mean the whole supply demand can't work in non-vital aspects of healthcare.

 

[reinoe]

Replace it with nothing. The federal govt does not have the power to regulate healtcare. In fact, start repealing the rest of the federal health laws, including medicare.

The federal government doesn't have the power to regulate healthcare? Have you ever heard of Medicare and Medicaid?

 

[jonny5]

The federal government doesn't have the power to regulate healthcare? Have you ever heard of Medicare and Medicaid?

Of course. You wont find them anywhere in the constitution.

 

[reinoe]

Of course. You wont find them anywhere in the constitution.

The Supreme Court disagrees. I would love to be rid of S.S., Medicare, and Obamacare too but that isn't going to happen.

 

[jonny5]

The Supreme Court disagrees. I would love to be rid of S.S., Medicare, and Obamacare too but that isn't going to happen.

The Supreme Court is wrong.