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Germany rejects multi billion $ Helicopter deal with Boeing and Lockheed

joko104

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Why should i learn russian?

The enemy is USA and China, not Russia.
Learn Chinese too. You may want to buy an Islamic prayer rug too.
 

Rostocker

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Learn Chinese too. You may want to buy an Islamic prayer rug too.
I want a islamic prayer rug? My state has not even a mosque and 0.02% of population are muslim.

All in all Germany has 4% muslim population. You have more, so you might be able to tell me what islamic prayer rug do you use?

Do you already speak spanish?
 

joko104

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I want a islamic prayer rug? My state has not even a mosque and 0.02% of population are muslim.

All in all Germany has 4% muslim population. You have more, so you might be able to tell me what islamic prayer rug do you use?

Do you already speak spanish?
I know enough Spanish to get by.

That 4% population will come to totally control Germany merely by examining birth rates - because white Germans don't have children and they have lots of children. Their theocratic leaders have even bragged they will take over Europe by babies.

White Americans will cease to be a majority in the USA for the same reason. This is rapidly altering the course of the USA - and not in good ways. But Latinos are not of an adversarial theocratic belief system. Most Muslims are. Nor does it take a majority to take over a country - only a militant minority. At no time were more than 10% of Germans Nazis - but they took over German by violence and militancy. Germany will become nothing more than another Islamic state - and all the talk and theories won't change that because indigenous white Germans have essential self sterilized themselves.
 

Juks

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Gripen is a nice aircraft but they want develop a german french model here.
Well, To be honest it is not just "to develop" a craft like this, it takes years. It was decided to develop a military aircraft together with SAAB in 1983. The first version of Gripen (called JAS 39A ) was put into operation 1996. Maybe it was ready a couple of years earlier, I don't know, but still at least 10 years.
 

Rostocker

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I know enough Spanish to get by.

That 4% population will come to totally control Germany merely by examining birth rates - because white Germans don't have children and they have lots of children. Their theocratic leaders have even bragged they will take over Europe by babies.

White Americans will cease to be a majority in the USA for the same reason. This is rapidly altering the course of the USA - and not in good ways. But Latinos are not of an adversarial theocratic belief system. Most Muslims are. Nor does it take a majority to take over a country - only a militant minority. At no time were more than 10% of Germans Nazis - but they took over German by violence and militancy. Germany will become nothing more than another Islamic state - and all the talk and theories won't change that because indigenous white Germans have essential self sterilized themselves.

Bullshit again

We have half as much muslims than we once had jews.

That aside, we still wont buy american equipment.
 

Rostocker

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Well, To be honest it is not just "to develop" a craft like this, it takes years. It was decided to develop a military aircraft together with SAAB in 1983. The first version of Gripen (called JAS 39A ) was put into operation 1996. Maybe it was ready a couple of years earlier, I don't know, but still at least 10 years.

Yep, its expected to be oeprationy by 2035. Until then they ordered more Eurofighters
 

joko104

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Bullshit again

We have half as much muslims than we once had jews.

That aside, we still wont buy american equipment.
No problem. I think all German imports should be banned.
 

Rexedgar

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Bullshit again

We have half as much muslims than we once had jews.

That aside, we still wont buy american equipment.

Not sure if the bolded is a good position for a German?

🤷
 

OrphanSlug

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Is there anything that Trump is not screwing up?
 

Rostocker

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No problem. I think all German imports should be banned.
We have not banned your imports either. The EU is the largest market in the world. Germany controls the EU.

You will ban nothing just because of that. You endure it, shrug your shoulders and will make new offers for next prjects in the hope to not get dismissed.
 

Tangmo

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I wonder if Trump reflects on all those cancellations.
There's nothing in it for Trump so, no. Silly you should ask.

You'd need to concern yourself about the fact it has the attention of the Pentagon, DepState, CIA and so on to include the IC. It is of no small significance it has the attention of Joe Biden who is fluent in these matters.

The developments are a part of the independent and unilateral rearming the German state is pursuing for itself while simultaneously and consciously separating itself from the United States to include NATO. Indeed the German armed forces have been a pile of ineffective junk in disrepair to NATO for more than a decade and counting.

The several billion bucks involved are not so much "cancelled" as they are postponed as other governments will buy the weapons systems sooner or later for one reason or another. This amount of money is small time as military spending goes and it is, as I say, a delayed transaction if viewed as a whole although more than one foreign government may buy this but not that rejected by the German state that is rearming itself independently and unilaterally, as Europe knows acutely.

The significance of what Germany is doing is geostrategic much more than it is financial or occurring in monetary terms. You are among those who have a geostrategic blind spot as you see everything in monetary terms only and exclusively, as we continue to see in respect of Nord Stream 2 AG and Gazprom. You are an accountant, not a policy or strategy guy and when it comes to history you're a living breathing swamp. Whatever schooling you got you need to demand your coupons back.
 
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Tangmo

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Look Tangmo, Lockheed even made a slimy commercial website for their Helicopter proposal and designed an own logo.

Its funny to watch and read:


They protray it like how many german partners they have and that its build in Germany ect.

They basicly hide their own american roots in an attempt to win hearts.

"
A Strong CH-53K Team: For Germany, By Germany
Sikorsky, exclusive teammate for in-service support, Rheinmetall, and a strong team of German suppliers are working together to ensure the long-term sustainment of the CH-53K by German aerospace industry. The CH-53K was designed by the US Marines Corps to meet the rigors of the 21st century deployments and to operate as a ‘system of systems’ within the US armed forces and NATO. As a digital helicopter with state of the art communication and data link capabilities, it is well suited for customization of integrated additional capability by German industry.
Sikorsky has assembled a team comprised of the top German defense companies to perform these customizations as well as the lion’s share of the sustainment work on the CH-53K over the estimated 30 year life of the STH program."




And all for nothing. :(

Wonder if they will make some cry baby statements like whenw e dodged the F-35 trash they tried to sell us.
Lockheed will sell the sucker to yet some other foreign government that is genuine about purchasing it and to learn the operating and maintenance of it, train pilots and crew etc in connection with Lockheed and US armed forces.

It's conclusive in Washington now that Germany is not a reliable defense partner. You're not even a remotely credible one.

Which is why post Ukraine and Crimea the US was already becoming focused on the states immediately bordering Russia, from Ukraine and Poland to the Baltic states and the Baltic itself, Romania on the Black Sea and so on. As SecState Pompeo stated last week the US is building an alliance against Nord Stream 2 that is the foundation -- presently and in the immediate future -- of a new alliance in Europe to check the newly aggressive Germany.

Pompeo and SecDef Esper have already constructed a new alliance in the Eastern Med against the Turkstream pipeline through the Black Sea from Russia to Turkey. Turkstream was hit by the identical US sanctions as NS 2 got and at exactly the same time, December. So Turkstream too is dead underwater as the identical contractors who fled the US sanctions on NS 2 in the Baltic and that were doing Turkstream in the Black Sea bailed there too.

The new US-Europe-East Med alliance against Turkstream-Russia-Turkey has founding members Greece, Cyprus, Crete, France, USA, Israel, Egypt checking both Turkey and Russia. The French naval task force assigned to enhance the alliance outmaneuvered the Turkish naval fleet that had tried to blockade alliance drilling in the largest gas field find in the world of 2019. Naval ships of Greece and France operating under NATO.

U.S. Under SecState for Political Affairs David Hale stopped in Cyprus after visiting Israel to meet with the Cypriot foreign minister and to say the alliance drilling will “provide durable energy security and economic prosperity throughout the Mediterranean.” Cyprus has licensed ExxonMobil and partner Qatar Petroleum as well as Chevron to drill for gas in its exclusive economic zone. EU foreign ministers have voted "full solidarity" with Greece and Cyprus. So you might check with your own German foreign minister Mr. Haas on this.
 
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Tangmo

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There is no occupation, or are you occupied because german soldiers are stationed in Arizona?

Beside that what kind of occupation is it when a german state can denie you entry? USA planend to build a military hospital in my state Thüringen and the Ministerpräsident (similar to a governor in USA) banned it, stating she rather openes a pig farm there. Kinda lame occupation.
Earlier this year your state Thuringen became the first state in Germany to elect its governor with the decisive support of the Alternative for Deutchland. Thomas Kemmerich became the elected governor and only after Your AfD threw its support to him.

Kemmerich did not appoint any ministers of state government however so he became the only official of the entire state government to show up each day for no work. No elected representatives showed up to the state legislature either although a full body of 'em had been elected. So Kemmerich was it, ie, your state government. One guy. Doing nothing.

It's called the Thuringen Crisis that came to a head when Kemmerich finally resigned 30 sleepy dayze later. The upshot seems to be that Alternative for Deutchland is big in Thuringen. Indeed in the 1933 election Thuringen went big time for the National Socialists too.


 

beerftw

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I admit...thats wow...

Germany wants to buy several dozns of heavy transport helicopter to replace the old CH-53G .

60 helicopters have to be replaced and its the largest Helicopter deal on the market right now. The only companies who can sell
helicopters of this type are Boeing and Lockheed. For both companies this deal was very important and at least one of them
expected to get the contract.

Today it was announced that both are out of the game. Analysts say this is a political decission, not a strategic one, since there is no replacement.

Both Lockheed and Boeing offered participation of many german companies in this project, in the end it did not change the fact, that because the
bad german - american relations, Merkel is not willing to give any contracts into the US.

Insiders say, that Germany demands from both companies that the helicopter gets "germanized", which means it is supposed to be build in Germany, from german
corporations under Airbus.


@Tangmo @Dayton3
You guys can try, but helicopters for military use have been predominate in design by two regions, the USA and soviet union/russia.

In terms of good military helicopters germany really has no choice but to either bow to america or russia, or to get off their ass and design their own from the ground up. Or you can simply use one of airbus crappy existing helicopter designs like the dauphin.
 

beerftw

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See, german leaders dont have the time to study in a 3rd world country where morons like Reagan or Trump become president. German leaders like Helmut Schmidt, Gerhard Schröder, Helmut Kohl or Angela Merkel have to run one of the most powerful economies in the world, manage the heart of Europe and do the best for their people.

You should be glad though, the last german leader who studied in a foreign nation, learned their ways was Arminius, who was a german boy, brought as hostage to Rome, got a formal education there, was trained in their military....and then used his knowledge to crush the roman army, stop forever roman invasion attempts against Germany, killed 3 roman legions and ultimatly led the downfall of Rome.

You arent Rome though, just some pathetic shithole.
If germany is so great why can't they produce their own helicopter design, the soviet union did it while being too broke and mismanaged to the point of millions starving, but yet germany which you call the first world and not broke can not design a helicopter and now needs a cheaper option not because they are broke but because some made up reasons you have.
 

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Lockheed will sell the sucker to yet some other foreign government that is genuine about purchasing it and to learn the operating and maintenance of it, train pilots and crew etc in connection with Lockheed and US armed forces.

It's conclusive in Washington now that Germany is not a reliable defense partner. You're not even a remotely credible one.

Which is why post Ukraine and Crimea the US was already becoming focused on the states immediately bordering Russia, from Ukraine and Poland to the Baltic states and the Baltic itself, Romania on the Black Sea and so on. As SecState Pompeo stated last week the US is building an alliance against Nord Stream 2 that is the foundation -- presently and in the immediate future -- of a new alliance in Europe to check the newly aggressive Germany.

Pompeo and SecDef Esper have already constructed a new alliance in the Eastern Med against the Turkstream pipeline through the Black Sea from Russia to Turkey. Turkstream was hit by the identical US sanctions as NS 2 got and at exactly the same time, December. So Turkstream too is dead underwater as the identical contractors who fled the US sanctions on NS 2 in the Baltic and that were doing Turkstream in the Black Sea bailed there too.

The new US-Europe-East Med alliance against Turkstream-Russia-Turkey has founding members Greece, Cyprus, Crete, France, USA, Israel, Egypt checking both Turkey and Russia. The French naval task force assigned to enhance the alliance outmaneuvered the Turkish naval fleet that had tried to blockade alliance drilling in the largest gas field find in the world of 2019. Naval ships of Greece and France operating under NATO.

U.S. Under SecState for Political Affairs David Hale stopped in Cyprus after visiting Israel to meet with the Cypriot foreign minister and to say the alliance drilling will “provide durable energy security and economic prosperity throughout the Mediterranean.” Cyprus has licensed ExxonMobil and partner Qatar Petroleum as well as Chevron to drill for gas in its exclusive economic zone. EU foreign ministers have voted "full solidarity" with Greece and Cyprus. So you might check with your own German foreign minister Mr. Haas on this.
Bullshit of course.

1. You wont find another country buying 60 heavy lift helicopters, a contract of this size is plain and simple limited to the largest nations. So the contract is just that...dead

2. We dont buy from a hostile country.
 

Rostocker

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If germany is so great why can't they produce their own helicopter design, the soviet union did it while being too broke and mismanaged to the point of millions starving, but yet germany which you call the first world and not broke can not design a helicopter and now needs a cheaper option not because they are broke but because some made up reasons you have.
Quite simply, it was not necessary yet to design one.

And as it looks like, the deal was cancelled simply because we dont sign business deals with Trumpistan. This might change when USA changes their behavior.
 

Tangmo

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Bullshit of course.

1. You wont find another country buying 60 heavy lift helicopters, a contract of this size is plain and simple limited to the largest nations. So the contract is just that...dead

2. We dont buy from a hostile country.
You're talking way over your head Rostock and we're only talking helicopters.

You don't know how many countries will be drawn to the 60 helos now that Germany that had first dibs on 'em has shown its hand as bogus, manipulative, cynical about buying 'em.

My post included a general reference to several countries here and there that would likely buy some of 'em to possibly total 60, possibly more, possibly less in all. If the helo you maliciously never intended to buy might be good enough for your precious junk heap of German military capital equipment in disrepair then it would be more than likely good enough for, say, Italy or Egypt or the US Strategic Partner India or Indonesia or perhaps Taiwan among other nations around the globe.

US formal defense treaty ally Japan already has more than one line of USA helos for its self defense force. And while Japan is a solid US ally by any standard Japan is far superior to Germany as an ally. Indeed, you guys in Your Germany act like you won the second world war and did it on your own besides. You're totally confused over there.

Yet what else is new about the Master Ethnic Grouping and Your AfD that is emerging fast with a GE coming up next year. AfD is virtually kingmaker in Thurengen lander during these times. Same as your lander ancestors were in 1933 when they voted National Socialist Nazi Party at a critical moment in German history. I do dare say Thurengen votes in Germany the way Alabama votes in the USA.
 
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Rostocker

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You're talking way over your head Rostock and we're only talking helicopters.

You don't know how many countries will be drawn to the 60 helos now that Germany that had first dibs on 'em has shown its hand as bogus, manipulative, cynical about buying 'em.

My post included a general reference to several countries here and there that would likely buy some of 'em to possibly total 60, possibly more, possibly less in all. If the helo you maliciously never intended to buy might be good enough for your precious junk heap of German military capital equipment in disrepair then it would be more than likely good enough for, say, Italy or Egypt or the US Strategic Partner India or Indonesia or perhaps Taiwan among other nations around the globe.

US formal defense treaty ally Japan already has more than one line of USA helos for its self defense force. And while Japan is a solid US ally by any standard Japan is far superior to Germany as an ally. Indeed, you guys in Your Germany act like you won the second world war and did it on your own besides. You're totally confused over there.

Yet what else is new about the Master Ethnic Grouping and Your AfD that is emerging fast with a GE coming up next year. AfD is virtually kingmaker in Thurengen lander during these times. Same as your lander ancestors were in 1933 when they voted National Socialist Nazi Party at a critical moment in German history. I do dare say Thurengen votes in Germany the way Alabama votes in the USA.

Again bullshit. The countries you named would have bought helicopters anyways.

There is a very limited market for those helicopters, losing a 60 unit contract worth 6 billion is plain and simply that, a loss.

By not buying them, the fix market shrunk on that amount.
 

Tangmo

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Again bullshit. The countries you named would have bought helicopters anyways.

There is a very limited market for those helicopters, losing a 60 unit contract worth 6 billion is plain and simply that, a loss.

By not buying them, the fix market shrunk on that amount.
In Germany the fix was in on 'em.
 

Rostocker

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In Germany the fix was in on 'em.

Again, there is a fixed number of countries that buy. That number stands from day one, since the market is incredible small.

lets say the total number you can sell worldwide is 300.

By losing the biggest tranche...you are down to 240. The market is reduced by that 60 units. You now only have 240 sales.

For Boeing thats a devastating thing, since they need evry contract. Before the cancellation it looked like Boeing wins. Boeing is in a desperate state and made extreme concessions towards Germany, forged alliances with german partners

Just two weeks ago Boeing made a new announcement they look forward to this deal and announced a new german partner for this...all for nothing.

And they got the enws through news paper. So far Boeing and Lockheed have not commented on this. The last time when Lockheed learned from newspapers they wont sell 100 F-35 to Germany, their boss was frustrated to the level that he published an angry rant...which he deleted few hours later
 

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Again, there is a fixed number of countries that buy. That number stands from day one, since the market is incredible small.

lets say the total number you can sell worldwide is 300.

By losing the biggest tranche...you are down to 240. The market is reduced by that 60 units. You now only have 240 sales.

For Boeing thats a devastating thing, since they need evry contract. Before the cancellation it looked like Boeing wins. Boeing is in a desperate state and made extreme concessions towards Germany, forged alliances with german partners

Just two weeks ago Boeing made a new announcement they look forward to this deal and announced a new german partner for this...all for nothing.

And they got the enws through news paper. So far Boeing and Lockheed have not commented on this. The last time when Lockheed learned from newspapers they wont sell 100 F-35 to Germany, their boss was frustrated to the level that he published an angry rant...which he deleted few hours later
In Your Germany led by Merkel the fix against the United States has been in for some time.

It started when the USA foiled you in 1918.

Even more beginning in 1945.

In these times and at this rate it might be a good idea for Germany to buckle up for safety.
 

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In Your Germany led by Merkel the fix against the United States has been in for some time.
Funny, Merkel was pro USA under Bush and Obama. She went so far that she even send a letter to Bush, that Germany would support USA against Iraq, when she was not chancellor and oppossed Gerhard Schröders anti US course.

But hey facts dont matter when you can talk rubbish, right?

Trumpistan cant be a partner of Germany
 

Tangmo

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Funny, Merkel was pro USA under Bush and Obama. She went so far that she even send a letter to Bush, that Germany would support USA against Iraq, when she was not chancellor and oppossed Gerhard Schröders anti US course.

But hey facts dont matter when you can talk rubbish, right?

Trumpistan cant be a partner of Germany
That's your best post for capitalization in English that I've seen by you. Far and away so.

Keep up the great work cause it eliminates the distraction to some of missing capitalization consistently if not every time.

I don't support Trump in virtually all things except on China and Germany each of which Trump being Himself hates. Myself, I simply reject each of you, ie, China and Germany. Further, anyone who believes the USA will connect with Russia to subdue China has missed the fact USA doesn't need Russia to subsume China.
 

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Why should i learn russian?

The enemy is USA and China, not Russia.
Did you miss the memo? The outcome of the 2016 US election was determined by Russian interference.

If you don't think Putin has his fingers in US foreign policy, it's only because that's what Putin wants you to think.
 
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