Germany rejects multi billion $ Helicopter deal with Boeing and Lockheed

[Rostocker]

I admit...thats wow...

Germany wants to buy several dozns of heavy transport helicopter to replace the old CH-53G .

60 helicopters have to be replaced and its the largest Helicopter deal on the market right now. The only companies who can sell
helicopters of this type are Boeing and Lockheed. For both companies this deal was very important and at least one of them
expected to get the contract.

Today it was announced that both are out of the game. Analysts say this is a political decission, not a strategic one, since there is no replacement.

Both Lockheed and Boeing offered participation of many german companies in this project, in the end it did not change the fact, that because the
bad german - american relations, Merkel is not willing to give any contracts into the US.

Insiders say, that Germany demands from both companies that the helicopter gets "germanized", which means it is supposed to be build in Germany, from german
corporations under Airbus.

Bundeswehr: Der geplatzte US-Helikopterdeal lässt tief blicken - WELT

Einer der größten bundesdeutschen Rüstungsdeals ist geplatzt. Das Verteidigungsministerium hat zwei großen US-Firmen beim Ersatz des altgedienten Transporthubschrauber CH-53G vorerst einen Korb gegeben. Der Schritt lässt einen strategischen Rückzieher vermuten.

www.welt.de

@Tangmo @Dayton3

 

[bluesmoke]

The Art of the Deal.

 

[Rostocker]

The Art of the Deal.

I must admit, thats the highest escalation so far. Since Trump is president and decided to insult Germany whenever he can, Merkel blocked contracts with American companies. F-35 got cancelled, Lockheed Rocket defense system - cancelled. New laws that ban german defense companies to even use american parts.

But in all those cases existed german or european alternatives. In this case no Alternative exists, but Merkel rather dismisses both American offers and lives with no replacement any time soon, than giving Trump a contract. I guess that is Trumps "the art of the deal"

 

[joko104]

Don't worry. If Quid Pro Joe Biden wins, he'll buy the helicopters for Germany with American money - and it will only cost Germany no more than a billion dollars to his kid for anything Germany wants. So Germany should start making your Christmas list.

 

[Tangmo]

Meanwhile Italy is on course for the US Army next-gen-helo program while UK is buying the C-17 transport and the Dutch are getting the Patriot and so on. And now it's Turkey and Germany without the F-35.

If Germany wants to turn to Russia to fight against a Nato without Germany there's not much the USA can do except to flatten Germany from the air again. So maybe you should put in writing where you're going with this angry attitude of yours and your list of grievances you were up nights pacing and making.


COLOGNE, Germany — The German Defence Ministry wants to start fresh on a new heavy transport helicopter after finding that offers from American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the Chinook and the King Stallion, respectively, were too expensive, officials announced Tuesday. The move comes as the budget implications of the coronavirus crisis are starting to materialize, despite leaders' pledges to keep military spending high. Given that context, other programs are also expected to be on shaky ground, according to sources in Berlin.

Tobias Lindner, the Green Party’s point man in the Bundestag for defense issues, called the helicopter program’s [postponement] a “bitter sign” for Germany’s soldiers. He argued the Defence Ministry had been naive in its approach to the much-needed acquisition. “A new competition alone won’t solve that problem,” he said.

Germany walks away from Lockheed, Boeing cargo helicopter offers

The surprise decision halts an acquisition race that was scheduled to a see a contract awarded in 2021.

www.defensenews.com

Caught ya cheating on Nord Stream 2 Kaput btw using bogus data given to you by owner Gazprom and Putin. If Merkel didn't know she should be spanked. If Merkel knew she should be kicked by a mule.

US sanctions against Nord Stream 2 no clear breach of international law – German parliament research service

The German national parliament’s (Bundestag) research service does not regard US sanctions against German companies in connection with the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea pipeline as a clear violation of international law, reports Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. As long as the United States acted moderately, invoking the protection of national security interests and the negative impact on its own economy, "international law can do little to prevent the adoption of extraterritorial sanctions", says a report seen by the newspaper.

Tagesspiegel Background reports that the German government has been using data from scenarios by Nord Stream 2 AG in its argument that Europe will need at least an additional 100 billion cubic metres of gas per year. MP Krischer called the process bizarre and said “one can't use outdated data from Nord Stream AG and thus directly from Gazprom and Vladimir Putin to justify pipelines”.

US sanctions against Nord Stream 2 no clear breach of international law – German parliament research service

www.cleanenergywire.org

Need I remind you also it's winter storm season in the Baltic.

 

[Rostocker]

Meanwhile Italy is on course for the US Army next-gen-helo program while UK is buying the C-17 transport and the Dutch are getting the Patriot and so on. And now it's Turkey and Germany without the F-35.

If Germany wants to turn to Russia to fight against a Nato without Germany there's not much the USA can do except to flatten Germany from the air again. So maybe you should put in writing where you're going with this angry attitude of yours and your list of grievances you were up nights pacing and making.


COLOGNE, Germany — The German Defence Ministry wants to start fresh on a new heavy transport helicopter after finding that offers from American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the Chinook and the King Stallion, respectively, were too expensive, officials announced Tuesday. The move comes as the budget implications of the coronavirus crisis are starting to materialize, despite leaders' pledges to keep military spending high. Given that context, other programs are also expected to be on shaky ground, according to sources in Berlin.

Tobias Lindner, the Green Party’s point man in the Bundestag for defense issues, called the helicopter program’s [postponement] a “bitter sign” for Germany’s soldiers. He argued the Defence Ministry had been naive in its approach to the much-needed acquisition. “A new competition alone won’t solve that problem,” he said.

Germany walks away from Lockheed, Boeing cargo helicopter offers

The surprise decision halts an acquisition race that was scheduled to a see a contract awarded in 2021.

www.defensenews.com

Caught ya cheating on Nord Stream 2 Kaput btw using bogus data given to you by owner Gazprom and Putin. If Merkel didn't know she should be spanked. If Merkel knew she should be kicked by a mule.

US sanctions against Nord Stream 2 no clear breach of international law – German parliament research service

The German national parliament’s (Bundestag) research service does not regard US sanctions against German companies in connection with the Nord Stream 2 Baltic Sea pipeline as a clear violation of international law, reports Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. As long as the United States acted moderately, invoking the protection of national security interests and the negative impact on its own economy, "international law can do little to prevent the adoption of extraterritorial sanctions", says a report seen by the newspaper.

Tagesspiegel Background reports that the German government has been using data from scenarios by Nord Stream 2 AG in its argument that Europe will need at least an additional 100 billion cubic metres of gas per year. MP Krischer called the process bizarre and said “one can't use outdated data from Nord Stream AG and thus directly from Gazprom and Vladimir Putin to justify pipelines”.

US sanctions against Nord Stream 2 no clear breach of international law – German parliament research service

www.cleanenergywire.org

Need I remind you also it's winter storm season in the Baltic.

Sour that you lost the biggest helicopter deal on the market?

Last time i checked, we decide what we buy and what not.

Have you summed up the amount of contracts you lost already?

90 F-35 cancelled by Germany
60 helicopters cancelled by Germany

All in all this is at 29 billion $.

What amuses me most is that it angers you that much, that you threaten war against us.

I have news for you, just because this alliance breaks apart doesnt mean we are enemies.

 

[Rostocker]

Look Tangmo, Lockheed even made a slimy commercial website for their Helicopter proposal and designed an own logo.

Its funny to watch and read:

CH-53K Helicopter Germany

Built to thrive on the modern battlefield, including shipboard operations, the all-new Sikorsky CH-53K aircraft is designed to be intelligent, reliable, low maintenance and survivable.

www.lockheedmartin.com

They protray it like how many german partners they have and that its build in Germany ect.

They basicly hide their own american roots in an attempt to win hearts.

"
A Strong CH-53K Team: For Germany, By Germany
Sikorsky, exclusive teammate for in-service support, Rheinmetall, and a strong team of German suppliers are working together to ensure the long-term sustainment of the CH-53K by German aerospace industry. The CH-53K was designed by the US Marines Corps to meet the rigors of the 21st century deployments and to operate as a ‘system of systems’ within the US armed forces and NATO. As a digital helicopter with state of the art communication and data link capabilities, it is well suited for customization of integrated additional capability by German industry.
Sikorsky has assembled a team comprised of the top German defense companies to perform these customizations as well as the lion’s share of the sustainment work on the CH-53K over the estimated 30 year life of the STH program."

And all for nothing.

Wonder if they will make some cry baby statements like whenw e dodged the F-35 trash they tried to sell us.

 

[Fledermaus]

Look Tangmo, Lockheed even made a slimy commercial website for their Helicopter proposal and designed an own logo.

Its funny to watch and read:

CH-53K Helicopter Germany

Built to thrive on the modern battlefield, including shipboard operations, the all-new Sikorsky CH-53K aircraft is designed to be intelligent, reliable, low maintenance and survivable.

www.lockheedmartin.com

They protray it like how many german partners they have and that its build in Germany ect.

They basicly hide their own american roots in an attempt to win hearts.

"
A Strong CH-53K Team: For Germany, By Germany
Sikorsky, exclusive teammate for in-service support, Rheinmetall, and a strong team of German suppliers are working together to ensure the long-term sustainment of the CH-53K by German aerospace industry. The CH-53K was designed by the US Marines Corps to meet the rigors of the 21st century deployments and to operate as a ‘system of systems’ within the US armed forces and NATO. As a digital helicopter with state of the art communication and data link capabilities, it is well suited for customization of integrated additional capability by German industry.
Sikorsky has assembled a team comprised of the top German defense companies to perform these customizations as well as the lion’s share of the sustainment work on the CH-53K over the estimated 30 year life of the STH program."

And all for nothing.

Wonder if they will make some cry baby statements like whenw e dodged the F-35 trash they tried to sell us.

Budget issues killed the project to replace the aging CH-53G series....

The uber rich Germans can't scrape the cash together....

 

[Rostocker]

For Boeing such contracts at the moment are critical for survival, even more so since their civilian branch slwoly dies.

Die Welt thinks this decission is also a middle finger towards Trump and the answer for the letter that 3 american sennators wrote to the city Sassnitz, where they threatened to destroy the city because Nordstream II pipeline.

Just two weeks ago, Boeing was still believing it would win the contract and announced its cooperation with RR Germany for the engine maintenance.

There appears a system behind it though, Merkel offers extremly lucrative deals, lets the american companies struggle with making bigger and bigger offers, expensive preperations. And then they get the cancellation served cold through the media, after they have already invested millions in their offers.

 

[Tangmo]

Budget issues killed the project to replace the aging CH-53G series....

The uber rich Germans can't scrape the cash together....

Time for Rostocker to pass the helmet hat around Germany.

This post is an initial draft of course.

More to come later.

 

[Tangmo]

Sour that you lost the biggest helicopter deal on the market?

Last time i checked, we decide what we buy and what not.

Have you summed up the amount of contracts you lost already?

90 F-35 cancelled by Germany
60 helicopters cancelled by Germany

All in all this is at 29 billion $.

What amuses me most is that it angers you that much, that you threaten war against us.

I have news for you, just because this alliance breaks apart doesnt mean we are enemies.

US post Cold War attitudes and relations toward certain European powers and Russia used to be, as summed up well by then SecState Condolezza Rice, " Punish France, ignore Germany, forgive Russia.” We remember for instance how French fries became "Freedom Fries."

Post 2012 and Putin's return to the Russian presidency US attitudes and policies toward Europe have shifted instead towards Spain, Italy, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, the Baltic States and so on. There's always the most important ally and fellow English speaking country, Britain.

Because among other salient reasons we recall how GW looked into Putin's eyes and "saw his soul" which is the absolute dumbest statement any world leader has made of an obvious vile enemy since Christ turned the other cheek and Chamberlain returned from Munich with "peace in our time." Putin eats this up of course as after accepting GW's invitation to Kennebunkport ME where Putin arrived with his own bunk, Putin two dayze after killed the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty from the Cold War that changed the relationship profoundly and long term.

The focus of your Germany is however the dominance and supremacy over all of Europe that Germans have sought consistently, first by war and now by economics. What you as a lifelong civilian of modest resources intellectually and of personal means miss entirely is that the issue of dominance always comes down to war. Sooner or later.

You're a walking talking disaster Rostock looking for a place for it to happen whether you know this or not. Fortunately however a Potus Biden will put the ball and chain on you that so many Germans definitely need -- sooner or later. And this is a propitious time for it before you get completely wild and out of hand as Germans are known to do.

 

[bongsaway]

I must admit, thats the highest escalation so far. Since Trump is president and decided to insult Germany whenever he can, Merkel blocked contracts with American companies. F-35 got cancelled, Lockheed Rocket defense system - cancelled. New laws that ban german defense companies to even use american parts.

But in all those cases existed german or european alternatives. In this case no Alternative exists, but Merkel rather dismisses both American offers and lives with no replacement any time soon, than giving Trump a contract. I guess that is Trumps "the art of the deal"

Sounds like another winning trade deal to me. Please mr. president no more winning.

 

[joko104]

Sour that you lost the biggest helicopter deal on the market?

Last time i checked, we decide what we buy and what not.

Have you summed up the amount of contracts you lost already?

90 F-35 cancelled by Germany
60 helicopters cancelled by Germany

All in all this is at 29 billion $.

What amuses me most is that it angers you that much, that you threaten war against us.

I have news for you, just because this alliance breaks apart doesnt mean we are enemies.

There is no chance the Germany would fight to defend the USA or any other NATO country.

 

[Tangmo]

There is no chance the Germany would fight to defend the USA or any other NATO country.

Indeed with 9/11 French President Jacques Chirac immediately flew to Washington to invoke Nato Article 5 of mutual self defense, the only invocation of Article 5 since 1949 when Nato was founded. Chirac had lived, studied in the USA and in fact had worked at a McDonalds part time.

This while Germany stood there on 9/11 holding its weiner and no German leader had humbled himself to work a teen's job in the USA for the sociocultural and economic experience of Americana. Your exiting Merkel meanwhile is an original East German DDR who graduated from Karl Marx University and was the Free German Youth secretary for agitation and propaganda.

Germany isn't going to fight to defend the USA or any Nato country which is why Germans keep their armed forces on a par with a souped up Iceland.

 

[Rostocker]

US post Cold War attitudes and relations toward certain European powers and Russia used to be, as summed up well by then SecState Condolezza Rice, " Punish France, ignore Germany, forgive Russia.” We remember for instance how French fries became "Freedom Fries."

Post 2012 and Putin's return to the Russian presidency US attitudes and policies toward Europe have shifted instead towards Spain, Italy, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, the Baltic States and so on. There's always the most important ally and fellow English speaking country, Britain.

Because among other salient reasons we recall how GW looked into Putin's eyes and "saw his soul" which is the absolute dumbest statement any world leader has made of an obvious vile enemy since Christ turned the other cheek and Chamberlain returned from Munich with "peace in our time." Putin eats this up of course as after accepting GW's invitation to Kennebunkport ME where Putin arrived with his own bunk, Putin two dayze after killed the Conventional Forces in Europe Treaty from the Cold War that changed the relationship profoundly and long term.

The focus of your Germany is however the dominance and supremacy over all of Europe that Germans have sought consistently, first by war and now by economics. What you as a lifelong civilian of modest resources intellectually and of personal means miss entirely is that the issue of dominance always comes down to war. Sooner or later.

You're a walking talking disaster Rostock looking for a place for it to happen whether you know this or not. Fortunately however a Potus Biden will put the ball and chain on you that so many Germans definitely need -- sooner or later. And this is a propitious time for it before you get completely wild and out of hand as Germans are known to do.

Fun fact, Spain, Italy, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, the Baltic States and Britain combined still have a weaker economy than Germany.

 

[Rostocker]

Indeed with 9/11 French President Jacques Chirac immediately flew to Washington to invoke Nato Article 5 of mutual self defense, the only invocation of Article 5 since 1949 when Nato was founded. Chirac had lived, studied in the USA and in fact had worked at a McDonalds part time.

This while Germany stood there on 9/11 holding its weiner and no German leader had humbled himself to work a teen's job in the USA for the sociocultural and economic experience of Americana. Your exiting Merkel meanwhile is an original East German DDR who graduated from Karl Marx University and was the Free German Youth secretary for agitation and propaganda.

Germany isn't going to fight to defend the USA or any Nato country which is why Germans keep their armed forces on a par with a souped up Iceland.

Are you kidding me? You do realize that Merkel could not visit USA because it was banned then?

How many american presidents had a teens job in Germany?

Chancellor at 911 was Gerhard Schröder and we invoked article 5 the very same day.

What you do is shameful. We lost soldiers in Afghanistan, defending your shithole country and you have the guts to say such bullshit?

 

[Tangmo]

Fun fact, Spain, Italy, Poland, Romania, Ukraine, the Baltic States and Britain combined still have a weaker economy than Germany.

While the effective force of your military is equal to Iceland.

 

[Tangmo]

Are you kidding me? You do realize that Merkel could not visit USA because it was banned then?

How many american presidents had a teens job in Germany?

Chancellor at 911 was Gerhard Schröder and we invoked article 5 the very same day.

What you do is shameful. We lost soldiers in Afghanistan, defending your shithole country and you have the guts to say such bullshit?

Yes, Merkel could not study or work in USA because when she grew up in the German Democratic Republik of East Germany run by the Russian Soviet Union it was prohibited. While Merkel has adapted to democracy under the significant guidance and tutelage of American advisers, to include instruction and education from England and France, Your AfG is strongest in the former East Germany of Walter Ulbrict, the USSR, Merkel, Rostocker.

All of Nato invoked Nato Article 5 on 9/11, to include Germany, yet French Pres. Chirac was the only leader in Europe to dash to the United States to express his support personally. Chirac had lived, studied, worked in the USA while no West German leader of the Federal Republic of Germany -- your awesome country hearing you say it -- engaged the US and Nato in the modeled approach of Chirac.

You have lost Soldiers in Afghanistan yet you definitely would agree with Herr Trump that they are "suckers and losers." Yes you do agree with PutinTrump on that.

 

[Rostocker]

Yes, Merkel could not study or work in USA because when she grew up in the German Democratic Republik of East Germany run by the Russian Soviet Union it was prohibited. While Merkel has adapted to democracy under the significant guidance and tutelage of American advisers, to include instruction and education from England and France, Your AfG is strongest in the former East Germany of Walter Ulbrict, the USSR, Merkel, Rostocker.

All of Nato invoked Nato Article 5 on 9/11, to include Germany, yet French Pres. Chirac was the only leader in Europe to dash to the United States to express his support personally. Chirac had lived, studied, worked in the USA while no West German leader of the Federal Republic of Germany -- your awesome country hearing you say it -- engaged the US and Nato in the modeled approach of Chirac.

You have lost Soldiers in Afghanistan yet you definitely would agree with Herr Trump that they are "suckers and losers." Yes you do agree with PutinTrump on that.

Chirac ran France into the ground.

That said, which american leader had a teen job in Germany? Studied and worked here?

 

[Tangmo]

Chirac ran France into the ground.

That said, which american leader had a teen job in Germany? Studied and worked here?

Leaders of USA haven't time to take teen jobs abroad in this country and that country -- to satisfy various Old Europe countries -- while they have to position themselves seriously to manage and direct a democratic global order.

American leaders are Rhodes Scholars and grads of Oxford and Cambridge, the Sorbonne, not some saurkraut German university or the future belongs to me German prep school in some old drafty stone castle from 1100 AD in a mushroom forest.

Methinks moreover you have the equivalent education and life's experience of a German leader who came to power early on in the 1930s and who thought he was into aesthetics -- his fine art and yours body art. And who led Germany to oblivion while it wreaked malicious havoc on the world to include the United States and Britain.





So there your Germans go again, turning almost everything into a march. Did you see Angela btw at 2:13?

 

[Rostocker]

Leaders of USA haven't time to take teen jobs abroad in this country and that country -- to satisfy various Old Europe countries -- while they have to position themselves seriously to manage and direct a democratic global order.

American leaders are Rhodes Scholars and grads of Oxford and Cambridge, the Sorbonne, not some saurkraut German university or the future belongs to me German prep school in some old drafty stone castle from 1100 AD in a mushroom forest.

Methinks moreover you have the equivalent education and life's experience of a German leader who came to power early on in the 1930s and who thought he was into aesthetics -- his fine art and yours body art. And who led Germany to oblivion while it wreaked malicious havoc on the world to include the United States and Britain.





So there your Germans go again, turning almost everything into a march. Did you see Angela btw at 2:13?

See, german leaders dont have the time to study in a 3rd world country where morons like Reagan or Trump become president. German leaders like Helmut Schmidt, Gerhard Schröder, Helmut Kohl or Angela Merkel have to run one of the most powerful economies in the world, manage the heart of Europe and do the best for their people.

You should be glad though, the last german leader who studied in a foreign nation, learned their ways was Arminius, who was a german boy, brought as hostage to Rome, got a formal education there, was trained in their military....and then used his knowledge to crush the roman army, stop forever roman invasion attempts against Germany, killed 3 roman legions and ultimatly led the downfall of Rome.

You arent Rome though, just some pathetic shithole.

 

[Drawdown]

I admit...thats wow...

Germany wants to buy several dozns of heavy transport helicopter to replace the old CH-53G .

60 helicopters have to be replaced and its the largest Helicopter deal on the market right now. The only companies who can sell
helicopters of this type are Boeing and Lockheed. For both companies this deal was very important and at least one of them
expected to get the contract.

Today it was announced that both are out of the game. Analysts say this is a political decission, not a strategic one, since there is no replacement.

Both Lockheed and Boeing offered participation of many german companies in this project, in the end it did not change the fact, that because the
bad german - american relations, Merkel is not willing to give any contracts into the US.

Insiders say, that Germany demands from both companies that the helicopter gets "germanized", which means it is supposed to be build in Germany, from german
corporations under Airbus.

Bundeswehr: Der geplatzte US-Helikopterdeal lässt tief blicken - WELT

Einer der größten bundesdeutschen Rüstungsdeals ist geplatzt. Das Verteidigungsministerium hat zwei großen US-Firmen beim Ersatz des altgedienten Transporthubschrauber CH-53G vorerst einen Korb gegeben. Der Schritt lässt einen strategischen Rückzieher vermuten.

www.welt.de

@Tangmo @Dayton3

It is a shame that Germany is so broke it canot even buy some helicopters.

 

[Rostocker]

It is a shame that Germany is so broke it canot even buy some helicopters.

We arent broke, we simply dont want give business to an enemy.

 

[Drawdown]

We arent broke, we simply dont want give business to an enemy.

From the link in post # 5 " The German Defence Ministry wants to start fresh on a new heavy transport helicopter after finding that offers from American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the Chinook and the King Stallion, respectively, were too expensive, officials announced Tuesday. "

 

[Rostocker]

From the link in post # 5 " The German Defence Ministry wants to start fresh on a new heavy transport helicopter after finding that offers from American firms Boeing and Lockheed Martin for the Chinook and the King Stallion, respectively, were too expensive, officials announced Tuesday. "

Thats the way to get out of it. Germany runs on a 60 billion budget surplus.

Internal they say its a snub because USA behavior. You dont spend your money in a shop where you get insulted.

The last cancellation showed that as well. The F-35 was cancelled and then someone more expensive was brought on the road.

Merkel is hellbend to not give a single cent to the US.

As foreign minister Maas said, this will also not change after Trump. Trump showed that USA is not trustworthy and it must be important to dont depend on them.

The helicopter cancellation is interesting though, because no other hevy lift option exists and some believed Merkel might jump over her shadow for practical reasons.

That she chose to rather not buy any helicopters raises eyebrows as the articles headline says itself.