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Germany makes the worlds best cars!

Americans have always seen cars as a utility but Europeans see cars as luxuries.

Americans have straight roads and Europeans have twisty ones.
Americans like putting big lumps in their cars with basic suspensions and Europeans like smaller lumps with complicated transmissions and suspensions.

You pay your money and you take your choice.
If I lived in the States I would buy a big yank muscle car but I live in Britain and have a turbo Jap car.
I would buy a BMW but they are overpriced.

I spoke to an American friend extolling the virtues of Nissan Skylines and how much better they are than American muscle cars.
Oops. His son's car is faster over a quarter of a mile than the fastest Skyline in Europe....bet it doesnt drift like a Skyline though...:mrgreen:
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
I am Canadian actually

We dont get SEAT, Skoda, Fiat, Alfa, Citroen, or Renault. They all stopped exporting to North America in the 80's or 90's. They lost alot of market share to the Japanese, and the reliability of them at the time was poor in comparison. SEAT never exported to North America, and Skoda only when it was not part of VW. Heck we dont even get Lada's any more

With Fiat's ownership/partnership with Chrysler I expect that we will see some Fiats or Alfa's soon.

The new mustang is a great bargin considering what you get for your money. The 2011 model has new engines the 3.6 L V6 has 300+ hp and the V8 model has over 400 hp
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Well, the Alfa's will be something to look forward to. The 159, the Brera and the Spyder/GT are all fantastic drivers' cars. Fiat's niche is for small cars, so I guess they won't go down so well in N. America. They are cheap and cheerful and much more fun to drive than their Japanese equivalents. Because of the Ferrari connection, Fiat/Alfa engines are brilliant, even the diesels. You get more BHP for your CC than any other make of engine. They also make a tiny 4x4 called a Climbing Panda one of which I took up into the Sierra a few weeks ago on some seriously rough unmade tracks and very steep gradients. I had a ball! It's the automotive equivalent of a Jack Russell terrier; all attitude, energy and eagerness.

panda03.jpg


Look out for them.
 
VanceMack said:
I dont disagree with the critique of the 'buy American' slogan. I buy quality. If Im buying American its either a truck of American manufacture, or a BMW, Vokswagon, etc built in the USA. I care about who employs American workers...not who makes the profits.

To say that the American market was poorly designed is simply hogwash. Some...sure. Americans did a lousy job of producing compact cars...but no more so than some of the lower cost lines of the Morris, and even European spec volvos and BMWs.

Our biggest problem has CONSISTENTLY been the increase in cost of manufacturing which drove the American manufacturers to produce the vehicles in foreign countries.

We can talk about the auto industry all day long...but thats not the point. certain individuals spend an AWFUL LOT of their time blogging about how bad America is. Pretty good indicator of a mixture of low self esteem and tiny prick syndrome.
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Argg I had a long post in reply


New and short version

Ford North America has not developed a new car platform from scratch since the Lincon LS. Every car since then has been based on it (Thunderbird Mustang) or a Mazda, Volvo or Ford of Europe car. Ford does not trust its own US engineers to develop new cars from scratch.

GM is now using more platforms from Europe for its new models (Malibu, CTS) or from Australia (Camaro, G8, new Impala). Its domestic designs have not generally been competitive with what other engineers can do in other countries

Chryslers best car in the last 2 decades the 300 is based on the MB E class from the mid 90's. It has been able to develop good cars at times but never keeps it up. It build one good car and lets it rot with no updates for years untill it is no longer competitive.

People "re Americans" would have bough more american cars if they were designed and built well, and would have paid more for them then the Japanese competitors as long as they were at least as good as the Japanese brands. THey were not and they lost market share, significant market share. As GM used to have 50% of the US market
 
Andalublue said:
Well, the Alfa's will be something to look forward to. The 159, the Brera and the Spyder/GT are all fantastic drivers' cars. Fiat's niche is for small cars, so I guess they won't go down so well in N. America. They are cheap and cheerful and much more fun to drive than their Japanese equivalents. Because of the Ferrari connection, Fiat/Alfa engines are brilliant, even the diesels. You get more BHP for your CC than any other make of engine. They also make a tiny 4x4 called a Climbing Panda one of which I took up into the Sierra a few weeks ago on some seriously rough unmade tracks and very steep gradients. I had a ball! It's the automotive equivalent of a Jack Russell terrier; all attitude, energy and eagerness.

panda03.jpg


Look out for them.
Click to expand...

Fiat's could do well in parts of Canada. Smaller cars sell relatively well in Canada. The Honda Civic, Mazda 3 sell better in Canad then the Honda Accord. While the US market the revers is true
 
angrybeaver said:
Americans have always seen cars as a utility but Europeans see cars as luxuries.

Americans have straight roads and Europeans have twisty ones.
Americans like putting big lumps in their cars with basic suspensions and Europeans like smaller lumps with complicated transmissions and suspensions.

You pay your money and you take your choice.
If I lived in the States I would buy a big yank muscle car but I live in Britain and have a turbo Jap car.
I would buy a BMW but they are overpriced.

I spoke to an American friend extolling the virtues of Nissan Skylines and how much better they are than American muscle cars.
Oops. His son's car is faster over a quarter of a mile than the fastest Skyline in Europe....bet it doesnt drift like a Skyline though...:mrgreen:
Click to expand...



"Americans have straight roads and Europeans have twisty ones."

Another ghey comment from AngryBeaver~^:roll:
 
PonyBoy said:
"Americans have straight roads and Europeans have twisty ones."

Another ghey comment from AngryBeaver~^:roll:
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Our roads are as bent and gay as Elton John's colon, and that's the way we like 'em! ;)
 
Andalublue said:
Our roads are as bent and gay as Elton John's colon, and that's the way we like 'em! ;)
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You like dressing up as women too dont you?
I hear that Elton John's colon is quite straight sometimes, the last 6 inches...yuk yuk yuk
 
PonyBoy said:
"Americans have straight roads and Europeans have twisty ones."

Another ghey comment from AngryBeaver~^:roll:
Click to expand...

Quite a little bitch arent you sweetie?
There is some punctuation to be done on this post..do it
 
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Wow...somewhere somehow things got really weird up in this place! :shock:
 
VanceMack said:
Interesting that two of you so readily rushed to trash the American cars and ignored the point re the steady snarky commentary of the OP...

birds of a feather I suppose...
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You are determined to be as offensive as possible, aren't you? I have three options in dealing with you.
1. I can ignore your posts (tempting!)
2. I can respond along the 'Eurotrash' lines and be abusive in return, (totally counter-productive.)
or 3. I can act maturely, overlook your aggressive posts, and address what points you raise.

I am not concerned with the tone of the OP, although I must admit that I would have expressed myself differently. I have not 'trashed' Americans cars, but I have pointed out that they are designed for different road conditions from Europe, and built to different standards.

This is perhaps understandable as most vehicles are designed for local conditions. These differing design parameters, however, also make them unsuitable for most European road conditions. I am merely pointing out what is glaringly obvious from any cursory survey of the type of cars on European roads. American made US market cars simply do not sell in Europe, other than to the odd eccentric who is making some sort of statement.

In addition to which, every European road test I have read of a US manufactured car has bemoaned the lack of build quality, and the cheap materials used. That American cars are moderately reliable in local conditions is down to the fact that they are mechanically inefficient, but carry the advantage of their mechanical components being low stressed. However, this also involves low volumetric efficiency which, added to considerable mass, results in high fuel consumption.

As I mentioned in another post, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Compare the number of European and Japanese cars on US roads with the number of American cars on European and Asian roads, to see who makes the more universally accepted product.

Less invective, and more objective reasoning, always makes for a more fruitful discussion. :2wave:
 
paris said:
No, Italian cars are the bestest... Maserati, Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti..

And they have good food, too. You don't!;)
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Actually, Bugatti is/was French. The actual Bugatti factory is in France.
 
Frenchforever said:
Actually, Bugatti is/was French. The actual Bugatti factory is in France.
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You are right of course. The Bugatti car making company was sort of French, being set up in Molshiem in the Alsace region (an often disputed French/German area,) although Ettore Bugatti was born of a Milanese family in Brescia. It is now almost entirely German, being owned by Volkswagen, designed and built by Germans, and assembled in Molshiem.
 
Andalublue said:
Who needs sponsorship? Who needs to race? I drive a 2001 Fiat Punto, costs me $200 a year to service, $50 a year in road tax and does 40 MPG. It has never broken down and gets me and poochie around the mountains 365 days a year. Keep your BMWs and your GT40s (whatever they are), I'm happy with my cheap and cheerful Italian ragazza.
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Seriously.
If your spending a lot of money on a fancy car, you're better off writing a check to me, I can put it to better use.

I drive an econobox Mitsubishi that gets great gas mileage for U.S. cars and hasn't ever had serious break down, that's after 3 accidents too.
 
Andalublue said:
Bad choice of witness. Clarkson is almost universally derided for being a total c**k.
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Depends who you listen to. He's very anti-gay, anti-American car, anti-socialism etc etc. He is however, very respected as a Car journalist.

Andalublue said:
He's also a complete Amero-phile. He'd even say nice things about an Escalade or a Dodge Caliber --
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You do need to watch a few episodes of Top Gear. He's about as anti-American as you can get. And as for American cars - none of the journalists like them beyond the ZR1 and the Ford GT (and that was only Clarkson) They like the 60's muscle cars but nothing else made since then beyond those I've mentioned.

Hard to justify claiming "Amero-phile" for someone who's trashed every US car beyond 2 notable exceptions to the rubbish the Americans have failed to sell successfully over here.

Lord Tammerlain said:
Car and Driver a US car magazine has taken a few cars to Virginia International Racetrack over the last few years, taking them in groups and testing them generally in the same conditions. It has tight and technical sections and high speed straights

The Corvette ZR1 was able to lap it in 2:51.8
The Audi R8 5.2 FSI did it in 2:59.5
The Lamborgini Murciélago LP670-4 SV in 2:53.9

The Lightning Lap, 2009 - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

It is not the easiest to drive due to its power, but it is very fast and more comfortable then the Corvette Z06

Now if I was going to buy an expensive sports car I would most likely go with a Porsche Boxster or Caymen over the Corvette
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Interesting lap times. You probably don't get Top Gear in the Americas (due to the presenters hating most Auto American) but the ZR1 only came in 19th on the Top Gear test track. The ordinary C6 came in 66th around the lap.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Gear_Test_Track"]Top Gear Test track[/ame]
 
Andalublue said:
LT we normally agree, but not today! BMW's are perfectly fine, well-designed, reliable, good to drive and as environmentally sound as a medium-sized to big car can be. None of that is enough to make it the best car in the world, however. To claim that it has to have a couple of things that all BMWs lack (with the M3 a possible exception)... charisma, excitement and unique, head-turning potential.

If I was judging the mid-market sector, for handling and performance an Alfa 159 outperforms the 3-series on every test you'll give it. On value-for-money, get a VW Passat, or better still, a SEAT Exeo or Citroën C6. They are not quite as good as the BMW in perfromance terms but are its equal in terms of ride and reliability. They are also around €10,000 cheaper for the same spec. Of course, if you want to spend that money on a little blue-and-white badge...
Click to expand...

I drive one.
0-60 in 9ish sec.
45-50MPG mixed driving.
Enough room for two adults two kids and two dogs, and a circus troop of midgets in the boot.
160,000miles on the clock, original clutch exchaust suspension. and a very comfortable office....
 
181258900l1April%20fools%20news%20270x200%20copy.jpg


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Car buyers are expected to vote with their wheels as well as their feet on election day, but before that further details on PRAT can be found by contacting 0800 561 0080 or emailing Uwe.Beanhadde@bmw.co.uk or to find out more on real innovations visit BMW UK: Connected Drive or BMW UK : BMW EfficientDynamics ... "

BMW UK : News
 
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