Germany makes the worlds best cars!

[Maximus Zeebra]

Bad choice of witness. Clarkson is almost universally derided for being a total c**k. He's also a complete Amero-phile. He'd even say nice things about an Escalade or a Dodge Caliber. Having said that, I think the Corvette is a great looking car and has a certain grunty charisma that you can only really get from an American sports car. It's horses for courses. If I were doing an LA-New York run across desert and prairie and on mostly wide, straight American roads, I'd choose the Corvette, perhaps a Mustang.

If you were doing a European tour through the Alps, along the Cote d'Azur or around the Scottish Highlands, you'd have a much better time in an Alfa Romeo Spyder, Lotus Europa or, dare I say it, a BMW Z4. They're all around the same price as a Corvette but made for blasting around narrow, twisty European roads.

I dont know about the Alfa Romeo, I dont think I would chose one under any circumstance. Lotus is just a plastic box. Dont want that.

I would go with a 4 wheel drive Mercedes in such conditions.

 

[Ward]

Bad choice of witness. Clarkson is almost universally derided for being a total c**k. He's also a complete Amero-phile. He'd even say nice things about an Escalade or a Dodge Caliber. Having said that, I think the Corvette is a great looking car and has a certain grunty charisma that you can only really get from an American sports car. It's horses for courses. If I were doing an LA-New York run across desert and prairie and on mostly wide, straight American roads, I'd choose the Corvette, perhaps a Mustang.

If you were doing a European tour through the Alps, along the Cote d'Azur or around the Scottish Highlands, you'd have a much better time in an Alfa Romeo Spyder, Lotus Europa or, dare I say it, a BMW Z4. They're all around the same price as a Corvette but made for blasting around narrow, twisty European roads.

I think this sum's up what's really going on when looking for "the best car". Company's make cars that fit the roads in the country they are made in.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I think this sum's up what's really going on when looking for "the best car". Company's make cars that fit the roads in the country they are made in.

Except for BMW

The 3 Series is the best car in the world period end of story

A 4-5 seater with 300 hp great handling reasonable size fantastic performance and is good anywhere from the US interstate to European back roads

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

The ZR1 is actually a top performer in all aspects. It has strong fade free brakes, great cornering and is massively powerfull.

Around a track, (road course as opposed to Oval) I expect it would beat all European cars but the Enzo or track prepped models ( F430 Scuderia Porsche 911 GT3 etc)

It certainly will beat any european sports car that costs anywhere near what it does.

Admitedly the interior is subpar in comparison, but that is not what the ZR1 is bought for

Really?
I think plenty of Audi cars could beat it. I also believe a range of BMW and Mercedes cars could, cars which are by standard package as good as racetrack prepared cars. Audi R8 is a street car btw. Any Mercedes AMG street car could compete on that class.

It is a nice looking car that ZR1, but if I was going for good looking cars, and I would certainly choose an Italian car if I was going for a fast street car.

But for overall price vs performance, comfort and mechanical engineering I would always choose a German car. The ZR1 cost over 100.000 USD.. A lot of Audi, BMW, Porche and Mercedes cost less than that. Mercedes slk 55 AMG for example starts at 66.000 USD.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I think this sum's up what's really going on when looking for "the best car". Company's make cars that fit the roads in the country they are made in.

I would prefer a German car in all conditions. Especially in the US.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Really?
I think plenty of Audi cars could beat it. I also believe a range of BMW and Mercedes cars could, cars which are by standard package as good as racetrack prepared cars. Audi R8 is a street car btw. Any Mercedes AMG street car could compete on that class.

It is a nice looking car that ZR1, but if I was going for good looking cars, and I would certainly choose an Italian car if I was going for a fast street car.

But for overall price vs performance, comfort and mechanical engineering I would always choose a German car. The ZR1 cost over 100.000 USD.. A lot of Audi, BMW, Porche and Mercedes cost less than that. Mercedes slk 55 AMG for example starts at 66.000 USD.

Car and Driver a US car magazine has taken a few cars to Virginia International Racetrack over the last few years, taking them in groups and testing them generally in the same conditions. It has tight and technical sections and high speed straights

The Corvette ZR1 was able to lap it in 2:51.8
The Audi R8 5.2 FSI did it in 2:59.5
The Lamborgini Murciélago LP670-4 SV in 2:53.9

The Lightning Lap, 2009 - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

It is not the easiest to drive due to its power, but it is very fast and more comfortable then the Corvette Z06

Now if I was going to buy an expensive sports car I would most likely go with a Porsche Boxster or Caymen over the Corvette

 

[Andalublue]

Except for BMW

The 3 Series is the best car in the world period end of story

A 4-5 seater with 300 hp great handling reasonable size fantastic performance and is good anywhere from the US interstate to European back roads

LT we normally agree, but not today! BMW's are perfectly fine, well-designed, reliable, good to drive and as environmentally sound as a medium-sized to big car can be. None of that is enough to make it the best car in the world, however. To claim that it has to have a couple of things that all BMWs lack (with the M3 a possible exception)... charisma, excitement and unique, head-turning potential.

If I was judging the mid-market sector, for handling and performance an Alfa 159 outperforms the 3-series on every test you'll give it. On value-for-money, get a VW Passat, or better still, a SEAT Exeo or Citroën C6. They are not quite as good as the BMW in perfromance terms but are its equal in terms of ride and reliability. They are also around €10,000 cheaper for the same spec. Of course, if you want to spend that money on a little blue-and-white badge...

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

LT we normally agree, but not today! BMW's are perfectly fine, well-designed, reliable, good to drive and as environmentally sound as a medium-sized to big car can be. None of that is enough to make it the best car in the world, however. To claim that it has to have a couple of things that all BMWs lack (with the M3 a possible exception)... charisma, excitement and unique, head-turning potential.

If I was judging the mid-market sector, for handling and performance an Alfa 159 outperforms the 3-series on every test you'll give it. On value-for-money, get a VW Passat, or better still, a SEAT Exeo or Citroën C6. They are not quite as good as the BMW in perfromance terms but are its equal in terms of ride and reliability. They are also around €10,000 cheaper for the same spec. Of course, if you want to spend that money on a little blue-and-white badge...

I will admit the 3 series has boring styling especially compared to Alfa's, (and that I am biased towards BMW's)

I dont know about the Alfa 159's performance, how fast is it, what type of engine does it have as its mid and top choice. North America does not get any Fiat's or Fiat brands here, or French cars, so my exposure to those brands are limited

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

Car and Driver a US car magazine has taken a few cars to Virginia International Racetrack over the last few years, taking them in groups and testing them generally in the same conditions. It has tight and technical sections and high speed straights

The Corvette ZR1 was able to lap it in 2:51.8
The Audi R8 5.2 FSI did it in 2:59.5
The Lamborgini Murciélago LP670-4 SV in 2:53.9

The Lightning Lap, 2009 - Feature - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver
Now if I was going to buy an expensive sports car I would most likely go with a Porsche Boxster or Caymen over the Corvette

Who cares about racetrack cars anyways. I would not buy a racetrack car for overall performance.

I would never buy the Audi R8 for example. Its huge and doesnt have the necessary specs for overall car.

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I will admit the 3 series has boring styling especially compared to Alfa's, (and that I am biased towards BMW's)

I dont know about the Alfa 159's performance, how fast is it, what type of engine does it have as its mid and top choice. North America does not get any Fiat's or Fiat brands here, or French cars, so my exposure to those brands are limited

Come on, the BMWs looks great.

 

[Andalublue]

Come on, the BMWs looks great.

They look boring! BMW intends them to. It's all about being understated. Not a wholly bad thing, but if you want a car to stir your blood...not a BMW.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Come on, the BMWs looks great.

I love the looks of the coupe

But in comparison to the Alfa's styling it is very conservative

I like most Audi styling better then BMW (the 7 series is ugly compared to the MB S class in my opinion and styling is all about opinion of course)

 

[Andalublue]

I will admit the 3 series has boring styling especially compared to Alfa's, (and that I am biased towards BMW's)

I dont know about the Alfa 159's performance, how fast is it, what type of engine does it have as its mid and top choice. North America does not get any Fiat's or Fiat brands here, or French cars, so my exposure to those brands are limited

Sorry LT, I assumed you were in Europe. Don't they import any Alfas? I knew that SEAT don't export to the US. The Exeo is basically an Audi A4, but with different styling and without the Audi premium. Citroen's are, along with Peugeot, Renault, Fiat and SEAT great, value-for-money cars. The reliability issues of French, Italian and Spanish cars of ages past have long been overcome. They are as reliable as German and American cars, and more modernistically styled and better equipped, Euro-for-Euro than their German counterparts. Check out their websites.

I loved browsing American motor manufacturer websites even though we can't buy most models over here. It blows my mind how much cheaper new cars are in the US. You can buy a new Mustang for $22,000!!!!

 

[Maximus Zeebra]

I love the looks of the coupe

But in comparison to the Alfa's styling it is very conservative

I like most Audi styling better then BMW (the 7 series is ugly compared to the MB S class in my opinion and styling is all about opinion of course)

Really?

I guess its just because I like edges then and not round corners that I prefer BMW to both Alfa R and Audi. I best like Mercedes E class look though(the old ones and edgy new ones with the typical Mercedes charachter)..

I always thought Alfa R looked conservative(and often dull).

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Sorry LT, I assumed you were in Europe. Don't they import any Alfas? I knew that SEAT don't export to the US. The Exeo is basically an Audi A4, but with different styling and without the Audi premium. Citroen's are, along with Peugeot, Renault, Fiat and SEAT great, value-for-money cars. The reliability issues of French, Italian and Spanish cars of ages past have long been overcome. They are as reliable as German and American cars, and more modernistically styled and better equipped, Euro-for-Euro than their German counterparts. Check out their websites.

I loved browsing American motor manufacturer websites even though we can't buy most models over here. It blows my mind how much cheaper new cars are in the US. You can buy a new Mustang for $22,000!!!!

I am Canadian actually

We dont get SEAT, Skoda, Fiat, Alfa, Citroen, or Renault. They all stopped exporting to North America in the 80's or 90's. They lost alot of market share to the Japanese, and the reliability of them at the time was poor in comparison. SEAT never exported to North America, and Skoda only when it was not part of VW. Heck we dont even get Lada's any more

With Fiat's ownership/partnership with Chrysler I expect that we will see some Fiats or Alfa's soon.

The new mustang is a great bargin considering what you get for your money. The 2011 model has new engines the 3.6 L V6 has 300+ hp and the V8 model has over 400 hp

 

[VanceMack]

The american auto industry is in decline. Nobody wants to buy those 3rd world cars anymore. Obama had to buy GM and I heard that Crysler is in the same shape. Only Ford is holding its own.

In comparison the germans with the best engineering build Porche, BMW, Audi and Mercedes and of course VW bought Royal Royce from Britain a decade ago. Why cant Americans build cars that people want? The Japanese own the US car market. What are they doing better?

I think this says far more about the self esteem of some Eurotrash fool that feels he has to troll on bulletin boards daily to feel better about himself than it does about the American car industry.

The decline of the US auto industry also says far more about union involvement than it does about the actual product.

 

[reefedjib]

Germany and Germans suck the big Schwanz!

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I think this says far more about the self esteem of some Eurotrash fool that feels he has to troll on bulletin boards daily to feel better about himself than it does about the American car industry.

The decline of the US auto industry also says far more about union involvement than it does about the actual product.

The actual product sucked for decades.

GM, Ford and Chyrsler survived for 3 main reasons during that time frame.

1. Patriotism, Ie buy america
2. Trucks, being the only builders of full size pickups
3. Consumer loyalty

During the 70'-90's Americans cars were poorly designed and generally built in comparision to Japanese cars, and automotive engineers are not unionized, nor are the automotive company managers who let those pieces of crap get built

 

[USA_1]

I think this says far more about the self esteem of some Eurotrash fool that feels he has to troll on bulletin boards daily to feel better about himself than it does about the American car industry.

The decline of the US auto industry also says far more about union involvement than it does about the actual product.

Ford is on track to be the biggest and the best, union and all.

 

[Leo]

I think this says far more about the self esteem of some Eurotrash fool that feels he has to troll on bulletin boards daily to feel better about himself than it does about the American car industry.

The decline of the US auto industry also says far more about union involvement than it does about the actual product.

Rubbish! If the domestic US car industry produced cars the like of BMW, Mercedes, etc. you would see them all over the roads of Europe, Asia and Oceania, and they would not be in the trouble they are. The best German cars are amongst the most expensive in the world, but they are also the most sought after by people who have enough money. Anyone who uses a term like Eurotrash does not really warrant a civil response, but I will make this exception. :roll:

 

[USA_1]

The actual product sucked for decades.

GM, Ford and Chyrsler survived for 3 main reasons during that time frame.

1. Patriotism, Ie buy america
2. Trucks, being the only builders of full size pickups
3. Consumer loyalty

During the 70'-90's Americans cars were poorly designed and generally built in comparision to Japanese cars, and automotive engineers are not unionized, nor are the automotive company managers who let those pieces of crap get built

I have bought American cars since 1969. They have always been solid and dependable. I have never had a major problem with any American car I have had. The worst car I have owned was a Subaru. It was the first and only Japanese car I have ever owned. People buy American cars because of satisfaction, not consumer loyalty. When people aren't satisfied with a brand they buy a different one. Patriotism has nothing to do with it.
Back in the 70s and 80s I was a sales rep and put over a thousand miles a week on my company cars. They were GM midsized. All we did was change oil and tires and never had a problem. I don't see how Japanese cars could have done any better.

 

[Ward]

The actual product sucked for decades.

GM, Ford and Chyrsler survived for 4 main reasons during that time frame.

1. Patriotism, Ie buy america
2. Trucks and SUV's (idk if you consider a SUV to be a truck but I don't), being the only builders of full size pickups
3. Consumer loyalty
4. Cheap oil

During the 70'-90's Americans cars were poorly designed and generally built in comparision to Japanese cars, and automotive engineers are not unionized, nor are the automotive company managers who let those pieces of crap get built

FIXED :mrgreen:

 

[VanceMack]

The actual product sucked for decades.

GM, Ford and Chyrsler survived for 3 main reasons during that time frame.

1. Patriotism, Ie buy america
2. Trucks, being the only builders of full size pickups
3. Consumer loyalty

During the 70'-90's Americans cars were poorly designed and generally built in comparision to Japanese cars, and automotive engineers are not unionized, nor are the automotive company managers who let those pieces of crap get built

I dont disagree with the critique of the 'buy American' slogan. I buy quality. If Im buying American its either a truck of American manufacture, or a BMW, Vokswagon, etc built in the USA. I care about who employs American workers...not who makes the profits.

To say that the American market was poorly designed is simply hogwash. Some...sure. Americans did a lousy job of producing compact cars...but no more so than some of the lower cost lines of the Morris, and even European spec volvos and BMWs.

Our biggest problem has CONSISTENTLY been the increase in cost of manufacturing which drove the American manufacturers to produce the vehicles in foreign countries.

We can talk about the auto industry all day long...but thats not the point. certain individuals spend an AWFUL LOT of their time blogging about how bad America is. Pretty good indicator of a mixture of low self esteem and tiny prick syndrome.

 

[VanceMack]

Rubbish! If the domestic US car industry produced cars the like of BMW, Mercedes, etc. you would see them all over the roads of Europe, Asia and Oceania, and they would not be in the trouble they are. The best German cars are amongst the most expensive in the world, but they are also the most sought after by people who have enough money. Anyone who uses a term like Eurotrash does not really warrant a civil response, but I will make this exception. :roll:

I highly doubt that to be the case...I think most European countries manage a pretty healthy trade imbalance.

Im not slamming European cars. Im not honking the horns of American cars. Im simply pointing out the OP seems to spend a lot of his (or her I suppose) sad miserable pathetic life taking bad about America. It simply speaks far more about HIM than the US Auto industry.

 

[VanceMack]

Rubbish! If the domestic US car industry produced cars the like of BMW, Mercedes, etc. you would see them all over the roads of Europe, Asia and Oceania, and they would not be in the trouble they are. The best German cars are amongst the most expensive in the world, but they are also the most sought after by people who have enough money. Anyone who uses a term like Eurotrash does not really warrant a civil response, but I will make this exception. :roll:

Interesting that two of you so readily rushed to trash the American cars and ignored the point re the steady snarky commentary of the OP...

birds of a feather I suppose...