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Germany Fights Population Drop

@Rainman05:

I tend to agree that very ideological, extreme feminism is "terrorism" of some kind, but I don't think that's representative of "mainstream feminism". Just like the civil rights movement that demanded equal rights for blacks is not sufficiently represented by looking at the "Black Panther" or "Nation of Islam" groups.

And I don't think feminism has become obsolete. In Germany, and I guess in many other Western countries too, some workplaces are still dominated by male "rope teams". Men are running the show. And even if balance is not the problem, as you say, a lack of equal opportunities for women is indeed still a problem, because these male rope teams won't let women in, even when said women are just as well, or even better qualified than the males they hire. That's not necessarily because of malice or bad intentions from the side of these men, but it's a very real manifestation of involuntary, often unconscious prejudices against women.

Many women who climbed the carreer ladder can tell you stories about males in their way attempting to stop them, or sexism they had to face in predominantly male environments.
 
just crack out the peach Schnapps chuck on some techno music or some 80's glamour rock (preferably Europa) and before you know it your making babies.
 
One thing from this article looked especially weird to me, this quote:
“If you look closely at the numbers, what you see is the higher the gender equality, the higher the birthrate”

Dunno where they got this from or what are they are basing this assertion on...has anyone got any ideas?

Cheers,
Fallen.

Infinite Chaos got all the numbers down and the result, but sociologically and in terms of the state of feminism/patriarchy, it's a simple matter of what is likely to give the woman a good quality of life.

While women are experiencing much great equality in their work lives and as single adults, most couples with children still have profound inequality in their relationships. Men in many Western countries rarely take a significant role in raising children, even when the laws exist to allow them to do so. Since his income is often insufficient alone (and indeed, the woman is sometimes making more), this means the woman not only works just as much as he does, but assumes nearly all of the childcare work as well.

As women become more educating and do more fulfilling work, this makes reproduction increasingly unattractive.

It makes her less employable, for one, because bosses don't like fickle and distracted employees. And yet her alternative is often just as unappealing, to be tight on money with a young child, and stuck at home when she formerly enjoyed a fulfilling work life.

And it also makes her simply less likely to have kids at all. Why would she give up her nice life of accomplishment and equal recognition in order to become an exhausted, increasingly underemployed working mother with a detached partner? Those are the options for a lot of women in the West. It's simply unappealing.

However, as some European countries begin to have greater interpersonal equality, we see fertility rates beginning to rise again. We also see women a lot less stressed out. Childcare responsibilities are being shared, and everyone wins.

While education and opportunity are inversely correlated with fertility rates, and this will probably always remain true to some extent, there is some evidence that it is partly a compensation for incomplete gender equality.

Educated women in the developed world are never going to want to have 6 kids a piece as a rule, but some do say that they would have liked to have more children than they did -- 2 or 3. when they only had 1 or 2 or none. And the reason they didn't was because, well, no one wants to give up a good life for a bad one.

So given the evidence so far, it's entirely possible that if interpersonal relationships were more equal, fertility rates would rise again to replacement.

So it's not entirely accurate to say that higher gender equality leads to higher reproduction ad infinitum, but it is accurate to say that these extremely low fertility rates we see in some countries are probably partly due to gender inequality.
 
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@Rainman05:

I tend to agree that very ideological, extreme feminism is "terrorism" of some kind, but I don't think that's representative of "mainstream feminism". Just like the civil rights movement that demanded equal rights for blacks is not sufficiently represented by looking at the "Black Panther" or "Nation of Islam" groups.

And I don't think feminism has become obsolete. In Germany, and I guess in many other Western countries too, some workplaces are still dominated by male "rope teams". Men are running the show. And even if balance is not the problem, as you say, a lack of equal opportunities for women is indeed still a problem, because these male rope teams won't let women in, even when said women are just as well, or even better qualified than the males they hire. That's not necessarily because of malice or bad intentions from the side of these men, but it's a very real manifestation of involuntary, often unconscious prejudices against women.

Many women who climbed the carreer ladder can tell you stories about males in their way attempting to stop them, or sexism they had to face in predominantly male environments.

Granted.

I am not saying that there aren't challenges. I am just saying that feminism cannot solve them. That's all I've stated before. that feminism in it's current state and the trend of activism it is taking in the mainstream, is not equipped to deal with these issues. Nor can they. It's not an issue that feminism can solve. All the problems women face in the western world need to be solved through other means. And it certainly has nothing to do with this mythical creature called the patriarchy.

There are male dominated jobs. I can atest personally that engineering is dominated by men. But that's because women are overrepresented in other fields. There is a limited number of men and women in the world. So if you have 100 people, 50 men and 50 women. And you put 10 career paths in front of them and then say: 1 by 1, a man and a woman will pick a job career, no limits. If we are to take the stats available, most of the 50 women will go into education, nursing, accountants, managers, marketing etc. And men would go for engineers, programmers, construction workers, the army and such and we'd go more or less half-half on doctors, paramedics and such. So maybe you're right. Maybe there is an inherent bias when, say, you hire a construction worker, you hire a man. Or when you go to hire a police officer you hire a man because traditionally, that's how it's been done and there are some (more or less justified) cautions about hiring a woman. Maybe that's true. but that's not something that the feminist movement can tackle. In fact, I'm willing to bet that if they tackle it, they'll end up doing more harm than good.

Wage Gap: Women's Median Wages Compared to Men's in the Same Jobs, 2011 | Womens eNews

Can you link any population density statistics that support your claim that European countries do not face overpopulation as compared to Africa and the ME? As for Asian countries - China and India are the obvious standout countries for overpopulation but their population density is not at the top of the statistics table.

Well. I can provide you with these 2 things:

City Mayors: Largest cities in the world by population density (1 to 125)

If you look at the list, the first European city to enter the top is St. Petersburg in Russia at number 28. All cities until then are not European. Predominantly asian (china, pakistan, india) and some in africa (congo)
The next European city is Athens at #40 and only after that other European cities become more prevalent in the list. But still, the chart is dominated by asian, african and south american cities.

I am not saying European countries aren't overpopulated. the UK is full up. That's why unregulated mass immigration may very well be throwing the whole thing overboard. This is why we need to take drastic and immidiate action to make this stop.

The second link:
population of all countries of the world largest to smallest

This is according to countries. Not counting city states like Monaco, Vatican City, Mauritius (a tourist island basically, almost a city state), Singapore and such, countries with the highest pop. density are Malta (well, I did say no city states and malta isn't a city state), Bangladesh, bahrain, S. Korea, Nauru, Lebannon, the netherlands, Rwanda, Tuvalu etc. So in this shortlist, we see a lot of african countries and just 1 european one. This of course, doesn't mean that Europe isn't overpopulated and that it could take in more. It just means that african countries and some asian countries are heavily overpopulated and why they should take actions for population reduction. I often said that the high birthrate of african and ME countries is one of the main reasons why they are so impoverished. And as long as they don't drastically reduce the birthrate, they will never increase the chances of escaping poverty.

So yeah. In essence, European countries are highly populated. But we have the economic infrastructure to maintain high quality of life at the current population density if the population is contributory to the economic infrastructure. If European countries continue to suffer mass waves of immigration from third world countries, this will most certainly damage the balance and destroy this infrastructure and cause overpopulation. However, the countries with the highest population densities are outside Europe and for most of them, we can draw parallels between the high pop density and birthrates with poverty. Now there are exceptions. S. Korea is a very wealthy country but it has low birthrate and a very homogenous culture. Same for japan.
 
They should indeed, its not gonna get them very far which their largely Turkish/Kurdish Muslim minority but its a beautiful language none the less.

arabic? It's a god awful language. A lot of "hrrr" and stuff in it. Yes, some arabic songs are beautiful, I'm not contesting that. they have some rhythm and such. But the language overall is awful. same for hebrew. semitic languages just don't sound good.

Italian. Now that's a beautiful language that basically rolls down your tongue. And Russian.
 
They should indeed, its not gonna get them very far which their largely Turkish/Kurdish Muslim minority but its a beautiful language none the less.
Yes, and a beautiful culture, a beautiful people, and a beautiful outlook on life, by your understanding. The point you're missing is that there will come a point where they will also have a beautiful grip on Germany's government as well as its entire social structure. Of course, you can't possibly foresee something like this because you're happily part of the low information generation, but I can see it. So sit tight, enjoy the charms of liberalism (while you still can) and I'll continue reporting the facts. ;)

Enjoy the link below:

Islam in Germany | Euro-Islam: News and Analysis on Islam in Europe and North America
 
Yes, and a beautiful culture, a beautiful people, and a beautiful outlook on life, by your understanding. The point you're missing is that there will come a point where they will also have a beautiful grip on Germany's government as well as its entire social structure. Of course, you can't possibly foresee something like this because you're happily part of the low information generation, but I can see it. So sit tight, enjoy the charms of liberalism (while you still can) and I'll continue reporting the facts. ;)

Enjoy the link below:

Islam in Germany | Euro-Islam: News and Analysis on Islam in Europe and North America

So at which point will this Muslim conspiracy teach all the Bosnians and Turks to speak Arabic?
 
arabic? It's a god awful language. A lot of "hrrr" and stuff in it. Yes, some arabic songs are beautiful, I'm not contesting that. they have some rhythm and such. But the language overall is awful. same for hebrew. semitic languages just don't sound good.

Italian. Now that's a beautiful language that basically rolls down your tongue. And Russian.

I prefer Persian really. Even Antony Eden called it 'the Italian of the Middle East' before screwing Iran for the next century or so. But going back to the subject both Germany's birth problems and the integration of the immigrants that it will inevitably need could be solved by international adoption.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/14/w...nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130814&_r=1&



Very simple fix to this solution. Get women out of the workforce and back to making babies and raising kids. Force out foreigners who are breeding at a faster rate than native Germans. Ban feminism and make motherhood respectable again. Offer generous tax credits for families who have three or more children. Bring back the Lebensborn.

You're white, aren't you?

I don't think foreigners breeding at a faster rate is accounting for Germany's decline in population. Whatja think?
 
So at which point will this Muslim conspiracy teach all the Bosnians and Turks to speak Arabic?
I suspect they'll put up more of a fight than the fat, dumb and happy Germans, so I'd say sometime after them. Good question. ;)
 
I prefer Persian really. Even Antony Eden called it 'the Italian of the Middle East' before screwing Iran for the next century or so. But going back to the subject both Germany's birth problems and the integration of the immigrants that it will inevitably need could be solved by international adoption.

Well, persian is no arabic. It's an indo-aryan language, much like other European languages.
 
1.-germany-russia-birth-rates.png


Russia-Population-2006-13.png


Russia's total fertility rate has risen from a calamitously low point in 1990 to a European average in 2012 and the Russian population is set to increase for the time being. This is all because of a policy decision by Putin to reward families who choose to have a second child with cash bonuses of around $10,000 for housing or education and there are also additional financial benefits for a third child. Merkel may have to implement a similar policy to deal with the demographic problem in Germany and Japan is also experiencing a baby boom after the government offered monthly childcare benefits for families with school-age children, which amount to few hundred dollars per child.
 
-- Well. I can provide you with these 2 things:

City Mayors: Largest cities in the world by population density (1 to 125)

If you look at the list, the first European city to enter the top is St. Petersburg in Russia at number 28. All cities until then are not European. Predominantly asian (china, pakistan, india) and some in africa (congo)
The next European city is Athens at #40 and only after that other European cities become more prevalent in the list. But still, the chart is dominated by asian, african and south american cities.

I am not saying European countries aren't overpopulated. the UK is full up. That's why unregulated mass immigration may very well be throwing the whole thing overboard. This is why we need to take drastic and immidiate action to make this stop.

Population density does not equate to overpopulation in a country or continent - as you rightly point out on your list, St Petersburg is number 26 (not 28) with a population of 5 million but then you have Mexico city at 27 with a population of 17.5 million. Population density is simply about the numbers of people in a relative space.

All this list shows is that some cities have a higher density of human bodies in similar land masses.

--The second link:
population of all countries of the world largest to smallest

This is according to countries. Not counting city states like Monaco, Vatican City, Mauritius (a tourist island basically, almost a city state), Singapore and such, countries with the highest pop. density are Malta (well, I did say no city states and malta isn't a city state), Bangladesh, bahrain, S. Korea, Nauru, Lebannon, the netherlands, Rwanda, Tuvalu etc. So in this shortlist, we see a lot of african countries and just 1 european one. This of course, doesn't mean that Europe isn't overpopulated and that it could take in more. It just means that african countries and some asian countries are heavily overpopulated and why they should take actions for population reduction. I often said that the high birthrate of african and ME countries is one of the main reasons why they are so impoverished. And as long as they don't drastically reduce the birthrate, they will never increase the chances of escaping poverty.

And this is where you go wrong - counting 3-4 heavily populated countries in Africa does not equate to "African countries or Africa being heavily overpopulated."

Population by Continent

Africa currently is estimated to have a population of 1billion. In 2010 the population was estimated to be 700 million - similar to Europe's population estimate but when you go back to density - Europe can fit into Africa several times as a land mass. Even now, if figures are true and it is 1 billion, the land space exists to house people there.

It is Asia where the population has gone from 1.5 billion (estimated) in 1950 and may reach 5.5 billion by 2050 that we need to worry.

Anyway, there are even now, far too many people on the planet in total - that's the consideration.
 
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