Germans take to streets against US spying programme

[RDS]

"YES WE SCAN"

Thousands of people have been protesting across Germany against the U.S. Government’s spying programme.
They also expressed solidarity with Edward Snowden, the whistleblower who exposed the US’s mass surveillance of phone and internet records of citizens around the world, known as Prism.

Germans take to streets against US spying programme | euronews, world news

 

[Putsch]

If there have been protests in Berlin then they have been small.

Snowden is a traitor and should be dealt with accordingly. All this hysteria is absurd anyway. What would people prefer, effective surveillance or successful terrorists?

 

[Master PO]

if there have been protests in berlin then they have been small.

Snowden is a traitor and should be dealt with accordingly. All this hysteria is absurd anyway. What would people prefer, effective surveillance or successful terrorists?

is he a traitor.

Is he conspiring with other governments aganist the u.s.?

Question: If you swear to u.s. Government to keeps secerts [federal law], and you find out what the government is doing under the federal law, is a violation of the u.s. Constitution............which law prevails federal or constitutional?

 

[Putsch]

A government employee who willfully attempts to undermine or compromise the safety of the nation he serves is a traitor.

Perhaps your "federal laws" and "constitution" are too lenient.

 

[Goshin]

I'm not surprised and I can't blame them. I'm pissed off to, even though I've pretty much known stuff like this has been going on for decades.

 

[jschie]

The Spying Programs of the USA are a great problem for Europe.
Much People don´t trust to the USA.
It´s no fair deal.

I think that this could turn people in a way to hate the USA.
Not to hate US-People, but to hate the US Gouvernement...

I fear, that I can´t enter the USA, in cause of that I am a member of the Pirate Party of Germany. That could be enough.
Perhaps that´s not real, but the fear is the problem...

(sry for my bad english)

I am ashaimed, that Germany don´t give Snowden asylm.
He is a heroe and have to be protected. This is what the USA teached to us Germans, and that´s the right way.

 

[German guy]

I'm not surprised and I can't blame them. I'm pissed off to, even though I've pretty much known stuff like this has been going on for decades.

Yes, I'm pissed too, but not surprised either. What does surprise me, though, is that the officials don't even attempt to display shame or regret when they're caught with the hand in the cookie box, and if that was just lip service.

There are federal elections in Germany in two months. Unfortunately, our government's cooperation with such anti-constitutional surveillance programs will most likely not be affected by it: Just like the current center-right government, the center-left opposition approved of all these things when they were in power a couple of years ago. And the Pirate Party is too chaotic (so far) to make a difference.

And no, Snowden is not a traitor. I'm no expert on US Constitutional law, but I'm pretty sure that the US Constitution acknowledges the civil right on privacy of correspondence, just like most other Western Constitutions do. The US government is acting against the Constitution, and Snowden is a true patriot for calling them on it. IMO.

 

[joG]

"YES WE SCAN" Germans take to streets against US spying programme | euronews, world news

I live here and face anti-americanism all the time.

 

[joG]

If there have been protests in Berlin then they have been small.

The protests have been very vocal and still dominate the public and privat media. America is decried, while the fact that English and French spies have been doing the same as the Americans is ignored. Though it increasingly has turned out, that die US was acting with the full knowledge and consent of German politics the US ist being vilified.

No, the protests are not small in this sense.

 

[RDS]

The US federal government applies the death penalty for treason and espionage while the US government spies on it's own citizens and citizens of other nations.

 

[German guy]

I live here and face anti-americanism all the time.

Yes, there exists anti-Americanism in Germany (if it's stronger than the anti-Europeanism in the US is debatable, though).

But what exactly is "anti-Americanism", when it's not supposed a stupid empty propaganda slogan for right-wing Americans who hate Europe? True anti-Americanism that deserves this term is a nationalistic prejudice against America that's fueled by lack of knowledge and unjustified allegiations.

That's hardly the case this time. America claims to be our ally, and Germany is one of America's closest allies -- yet the US has constantly broken and brutalized our constitution and our laws, with collaboration by our government. All the American officials responsible for these surveillance programs should be arrested because of the violation of many German laws, if they ever put a foot on German soil. Won't happen, because our government had its head in Obama's ass. But that would be the case if the claim of fighting for freedom, democracy and rule of the law was not just an empty slogan.

So yeah, Germans do have a reason to be severely pissed at America and our own cowardish government. That's not "anti-Americanism", but very real and justified outrage about a massive violation of our shared values and law standards by the US government.

 

[Artevelde]

Yes, there exists anti-Americanism in Germany (if it's stronger than the anti-Europeanism in the US is debatable, though).

But what exactly is "anti-Americanism", when it's not supposed a stupid empty propaganda slogan for right-wing Americans who hate Europe? True anti-Americanism that deserves this term is a nationalistic prejudice against America that's fueled by lack of knowledge and unjustified allegiations.

That's hardly the case this time. America claims to be our ally, and Germany is one of America's closest allies -- yet the US has constantly broken and brutalized our constitution and our laws, with collaboration by our government. All the American officials responsible for these surveillance programs should be arrested because of the violation of many German laws, if they ever put a foot on German soil. Won't happen, because our government had its head in Obama's ass. But that would be the case if the claim of fighting for freedom, democracy and rule of the law was not just an empty slogan.

So yeah, Germans do have a reason to be severely pissed at America and our own cowardish government. That's not "anti-Americanism", but very real and justified outrage about a massive violation of our shared values and law standards by the US government.

I agree this protest does not in and of itself constitute anti-Americanism (although there is plenty of anti-Americanism around in Europe and some of the protest against the US intelligence gathering and surveillance is motivated by it). On the other hand, the idea that allies don't gather intelligence on each other's territory is very naïve (too put it in a friendly way). Do you really believe Britain and France have no intelligence operations in Germany?

 

[Higgins86]

should probably be protesting their own Gov first!


German Intelligence Agencies Used NSA Spying Program - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[German guy]

I agree this protest does not in and of itself constitute anti-Americanism (although there is plenty of anti-Americanism around in Europe and some of the protest against the US intelligence gathering and surveillance is motivated by it). On the other hand, the idea that allies don't gather intelligence on each other's territory is very naïve (too put it in a friendly way). Do you really believe Britain and France have no intelligence operations in Germany?

There is a difference between "intelligence operations" and a systematic spying program tracking every piece of information every citizen communicates through the internet.

 

[German guy]

should probably be protesting their own Gov first!


German Intelligence Agencies Used NSA Spying Program - SPIEGEL ONLINE

Yes. Our government isn't any better.

 

[Higgins86]

Yes. Our government isn't any better.

everyone has been very naughty.

 

[Artevelde]

There is a difference between "intelligence operations" and a systematic spying program tracking every piece of information every citizen communicates through the internet.

So you denounce the phone companies who keep records of every call made? Should we close down all phone companies?

 

[Wiggen]

The Spying Programs of the USA are a great problem for Europe.
Much People don´t trust to the USA.
It´s no fair deal.

I think that this could turn people in a way to hate the USA.
Not to hate US-People, but to hate the US Gouvernement...

I fear, that I can´t enter the USA, in cause of that I am a member of the Pirate Party of Germany. That could be enough.
Perhaps that´s not real, but the fear is the problem...

(sry for my bad english)

I am ashaimed, that Germany don´t give Snowden asylm.
He is a heroe and have to be protected. This is what the USA teached to us Germans, and that´s the right way.

May I say that, on behalf of myself and many other americans, I will truly miss you if you are unable to come to our country and break our laws.

 

[Wiggen]

everyone has been very naughty.

Wasn't it the British Foreign Minister, who famously said prior to the start of World War I, that - when offered the opportunity to get some intelligence on potential enemies - that 'Gentlemen don't read other people's mail'? Or something like that.

I find all of this sound and fury about the NSA to be amusing. What in the hell do you think those organizations exist for? To plant bugs in the Russian embassy?

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

The protests have been very vocal and still dominate the public and privat media. America is decried, while the fact that English and French spies have been doing the same as the Americans is ignored. Though it increasingly has turned out, that die US was acting with the full knowledge and consent of German politics the US ist being vilified.

No, the protests are not small in this sense.

Ah but they haven't been caught, have they? That's the point

 

[joG]

Yes, there exists anti-Americanism in Germany (if it's stronger than the anti-Europeanism in the US is debatable, though).

But what exactly is "anti-Americanism", when it's not supposed a stupid empty propaganda slogan for right-wing Americans who hate Europe? True anti-Americanism that deserves this term is a nationalistic prejudice against America that's fueled by lack of knowledge and unjustified allegiations.

That's hardly the case this time. America claims to be our ally, and Germany is one of America's closest allies -- yet the US has constantly broken and brutalized our constitution and our laws, with collaboration by our government. All the American officials responsible for these surveillance programs should be arrested because of the violation of many German laws, if they ever put a foot on German soil. Won't happen, because our government had its head in Obama's ass. But that would be the case if the claim of fighting for freedom, democracy and rule of the law was not just an empty slogan.

So yeah, Germans do have a reason to be severely pissed at America and our own cowardish government. That's not "anti-Americanism", but very real and justified outrage about a massive violation of our shared values and law standards by the US government.

It seems to have turned out, that the USA was not doing anything the Germany authorities did not know about and, as it appears, condoned. German Politicians and Police used the information to block terrorist attacks and to free kidnapped nationals. If anyone was breaking German law, it was the German government.

Also. The European allies were all tapping into the electronic communications. The French seem to have supplied German authorities with information on German nationals that the Germans were by law forbidden to access.

Why then are the Americans the ones being screamed at? Germany’s European “friends” were doing the same and Germans were breaking the law.

 

[joG]

Ah but they haven't been caught, have they? That's the point

No. They were caught. There were official statements in France and GB. It is just that hate against America sells.

The state media have been anti-American for decades. It is full of incorrect descriptions of things American. I have checked the facts many times. That has shaped the German public's mind. But it has become worse and the present hysteria is bordering on the ludicrous.

If it is not reined in, we could, however, find ourselves in a confrontation. Parliamentarians are demanding that this issue be connected to trade agreements and so forth. As the Hysteria grows from outbreak to outbreak (the Auschwitz in the Sand incident lasted only 5 days) we could be headed for real trouble one day soon.

 

[Wiggen]

It seems to have turned out, that the USA was not doing anything the Germany authorities did not know about and, as it appears, condoned. German Politicians and Police used the information to block terrorist attacks and to free kidnapped nationals. If anyone was breaking German law, it was the German government.

Also. The European allies were all tapping into the electronic communications. The French seem to have supplied German authorities with information on German nationals that the Germans were by law forbidden to access.

Why then are the Americans the ones being screamed at? Germany’s European “friends” were doing the same and Germans were breaking the law.

Because America Bashing is a time honored European sport. I think it helps them cope with their own national flaws. It's always handy to have somebody else to blame for your problems.

 

[Sanddune]

No. They were caught. There were official statements in France and GB. It is just that hate against America sells.

The state media have been anti-American for decades. It is full of incorrect descriptions of things American. I have checked the facts many times. That has shaped the German public's mind. But it has become worse and the present hysteria is bordering on the ludicrous.

If it is not reined in, we could, however, find ourselves in a confrontation. Parliamentarians are demanding that this issue be connected to trade agreements and so forth. As the Hysteria grows from outbreak to outbreak (the Auschwitz in the Sand incident lasted only 5 days) we could be headed for real trouble one day soon.

The German state media (ARD, ZDF) are not generally anti-American.

What we are witnessing is an international cooperation of secret services (American, German, British, French, probably several others) to spy on each others' country and thereby circumvent any local privacy laws. It is important to point out that this is not done by the United States alone. However, it is the US who do more spying than everyone else and are on the way to creating a global surveillance state which brutalizes our common values. And it is the German government that has welcomed American surveillance of German citizens because, through cooperation, it also strengthens their domestic power. Protesting against these two things is not anti-Americanism, it's standing up for freedom. There are anti-surveillance protests coming up in the US as well, and I doubt they would be weaker if most of the spying were done mostly by the Germans, and if the German government would clearly show that it thinks the privacy of American citizens has to be decided on in Berlin. I'm pretty sure that in that case, thousands of Americans would gather for massively anti-German protests which would be a lot worse than what we have seen in Greece during the Euro crisis.

What we need is an international agreement on privacy stating that the privacy laws of each country will be respected by all others. If the US should refuse to sign such an agreement, all of their troops, intelligence offices, and all diplomats except for a minimum number should be kicked out of Europe. All European countries who refuse to agree to respecting the privacy laws of each member state should be kicked out of the EU. The remaining countries should ensure that no data are unnecessarily transferred to the US, the UK, or other countries that freedom must nowadays be defended against.

I say that as a person who is fond of the United States as a country, has good American friends and has enjoyed every single stay I had there.

 

[joG]

Because America Bashing is a time honored European sport. I think it helps them cope with their own national flaws. It's always handy to have somebody else to blame for your problems.

There is no doubt in my mind. What you say is true. And they have massive problems right now not knowing how to keep the "Always Deeper Europe" scam going with the Euro tearing is apart and all the solutions constitutionally illegal. But the Bureaucracy have been working on this thing for decades and if it crumbles, which well it might, Europe's populations would be confronted with the enormity of the lies they have been told since the individuals were children. Yep, they have Problems.