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Germans demonstrate against surveillance

Sanddune

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Ray410

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The worst thing that Germany could ever do is subordinate it's nationalism to the Liberal agenda driven globalism that is sweeping the Western world today.
 

ChezC3

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Germans demonstrate against NSA spying as Berlin appoints cyber commissioner | News | DW.DE | 27.07.2013

At last something is happening. I had almost given up hope. Maybe this with a few additional leaks on German involvement in the surveillance programs can possibly, hopefully get Merkel voted out of office for her dear-citizens-I-don't-give-a-damn-about-your-privacy-rights-attitude.
Perhaps you should find new residency if you're so uncomfortable with success, no?
 

Sanddune

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Perhaps you should find new residency if you're so uncomfortable with success, no?
What point are you trying to make? That Germany is only successful with Merkel or that state surveillance is necessary for success? I agree with neither.
 

Sanddune

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The worst thing that Germany could ever do is subordinate it's nationalism to the Liberal agenda driven globalism that is sweeping the Western world today.
Why do you think so?
 

ChezC3

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What point are you trying to make? That Germany is only successful with Merkel or that state surveillance is necessary for success? I agree with neither.
Under Merkel Germany has been very successful. I'm not saying either of what you suggest. I'm opposed to State surveillance. I'm saying you seem to have a problem with Germany under Merkel and under Merkel Germany has been very successful. If it's not broke why fix it? You can accomplish your goals of casting the yoke of Big Brother off with her in control. With your seeming desire to remove Merkel and thereby changing the formula which has brought success I only assume that you are uncomfortable with it, lest why seek to change it?
 

Sanddune

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Under Merkel Germany has been very successful. I'm not saying either of what you suggest. I'm opposed to State surveillance. I'm saying you seem to have a problem with Germany under Merkel and under Merkel Germany has been very successful. If it's not broke why fix it? You can accomplish your goals of casting the yoke of Big Brother off with her in control. With your seeming desire to remove Merkel and thereby changing the formula which has brought success I only assume that you are uncomfortable with it, lest why seek to change it?
Okay, now I see what you mean. The problem is that casting off the Big Brother yoke will probably not be possible with Merkel at the helm. She's simply not interested in it. Now chances are that Steinbrück won't really do anything either but at least there is a chance of a stronger orientation towards privacy rights with him and the green party.

I don't really think it generally makes a big difference for the success of Germany whether it's Merkel or Steinbrück leading the government. The two parties and their policies are mostly interchangeable. The success of Germany is partly a result of labour market reforms made by the SPD (which they now want to change a bit). Success is one thing, a growing difference between rich and poor is the downside of current German economic success.
 

German guy

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Under Merkel Germany has been very successful. I'm not saying either of what you suggest. I'm opposed to State surveillance. I'm saying you seem to have a problem with Germany under Merkel and under Merkel Germany has been very successful. If it's not broke why fix it? You can accomplish your goals of casting the yoke of Big Brother off with her in control. With your seeming desire to remove Merkel and thereby changing the formula which has brought success I only assume that you are uncomfortable with it, lest why seek to change it?
As Sanddune said, one major reason for Germany's recent economic success are the reforms of the labor market made by the last center-left government before Merkel became Chancellor in 2005. Schröder, with his coalition of Social Democrats and Greens was responsible for the largest and most controversial reform in post-war Germany. He knew it would be very unpopular, especially within his own party, but he placed the country before his power and his party. And indeed, he would lose power and his party was almost ripped apart.

Now I'm not saying Merkel is bad in these regards, but Germany's economically comfortable situation is certainly not because of her and her party alone, but at least as much a result of the SPD's policies before her. And then, she even governed together with Steinbrück (as Finance Minister) and his SPD in her first term 2005-09.
 

ChezC3

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Okay, now I see what you mean. The problem is that casting off the Big Brother yoke will probably not be possible with Merkel at the helm. She's simply not interested in it. Now chances are that Steinbrück won't really do anything either but at least there is a chance of a stronger orientation towards privacy rights with him and the green party..
German Green Party Plummets in Poll Before Election - SPIEGEL ONLINE

I've got more to say on this, but time constrains me, my apologies, I'll return to this later this evening...
 

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German Green Party Plummets in Poll Before Election - SPIEGEL ONLINE

I've got more to say on this, but time constrains me, my apologies, I'll return to this later this evening...
This article seems to be more campaign propaganda than anything else. The Green party is still polled between very strong 10% and 13%. Only two poll institutes see it at 10% (compared to 11% the weeks before, and a 1% drop is well within the statistical fluctuation range, and most certainly not "plummeting"), all other poll institutes see them stronger.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm

in the 2009 election, they won 10.7%, which was their best result in a German federal election ever. It looks like they can at least repeat this success, if not expand it. So I really fail to see how this SPIEGEL ONLINE article is justified in the first place, on top of the headline being more than just misleading, but actually stating the exact opposite of reality.

It's true that the Greens had been polled much higher during the term, about two years ago, so this new poll result is a disappointment compared to the very high poll numbers mid-term, but that's it. It's common that during the mid-term, opposition parties are stronger than shortly before the election, especially because the number of undecided voters is much higher then. How often have American voters shown the incumbent the finger mid-term, but reelected him two years later?
 
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ChezC3

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As Sanddune said, one major reason for Germany's recent economic success are the reforms of the labor market made by the last center-left government before Merkel became Chancellor in 2005. Schröder, with his coalition of Social Democrats and Greens was responsible for the largest and most controversial reform in post-war Germany. He knew it would be very unpopular, especially within his own party, but he placed the country before his power and his party. And indeed, he would lose power and his party was almost ripped apart.

Now I'm not saying Merkel is bad in these regards, but Germany's economically comfortable situation is certainly not because of her and her party alone, but at least as much a result of the SPD's policies before her. And then, she even governed together with Steinbrück (as Finance Minister) and his SPD in her first term 2005-09.
First off, I'm not a real fan of Merkel. Second, ever since I was a wunderkind on grandpa's knee, I've supported the CDU. Third in a parliamentary system it is difficult to say who did what with whom, why, how and where as far as economic matters go. An end to State surveillance -- if it's gonna end -- will end regardless who's running the show. For all other matters, I'd actually like to see the centre right go a little more right, personally speaking.
 

ChezC3

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Okay, now I see what you mean. The problem is that casting off the Big Brother yoke will probably not be possible with Merkel at the helm. She's simply not interested in it. Now chances are that Steinbrück won't really do anything either but at least there is a chance of a stronger orientation towards privacy rights with him and the green party.

I don't really think it generally makes a big difference for the success of Germany whether it's Merkel or Steinbrück leading the government. The two parties and their policies are mostly interchangeable. The success of Germany is partly a result of labour market reforms made by the SPD (which they now want to change a bit). Success is one thing, a growing difference between rich and poor is the downside of current German economic success.
Stymieing the flow into Germany of doner kabob vendors will narrow the gap in wage disparity. SPD won't do this. Greens most certainly won't.
 

Sanddune

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Stymieing the flow into Germany of doner kabob vendors will narrow the gap in wage disparity. SPD won't do this. Greens most certainly won't.
I think Döner Kebab vendors have a very important place in German society and I would really miss them if they weren't there :)
 

ChezC3

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I think Döner Kebab vendors have a very important place in German society and I would really miss them if they weren't there :)
I'm more of a krautfleckerl man myself...If we're gonna import something...:wink2:
 

jschie

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Under Merkel Germany has been very successful.
Germany is very successful in cause of dumping loans.
I know more than a view people which work for 4 to 6 Euro per hour (5,30 USD to 7,95 USD).
This is about 50% of the minimum wages of the UK or France.

My last offered working place as IT-Systems-Administrator for Microsoft and Novell was 9.600 Euro (13.000 USD) per year.
4 years ago I earned 30.000 Euro (40.000 USD) per year...

That was the point where I decided just to work as a freelancer. Now I nearly don´t work for IT-Systems and earn more money.

Cause much other peoples who worked for IT-Systems did the same and now the german economy have problems to get qualified persons.
 
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