German Jews: Atmosphere like 1930s (1 Viewer)

[The face of Jacob]

Here's another reason why Jews must move to Israel:

German Jews: Atmosphere like 1930s

Copies of Anne Frank's diary burned at Neo-Nazi parties, Ethiopian youth beaten because of his ethnicity, student humiliated because of his association with Jews. These are only some manifestations of the rise in Neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic violence in Germany. Jewish community leaders say dangerous trend is being ignored by government

Ynet Published: 10.18.06, 20:26

Neo Nazi rally in Berlin Photo: AP

Swastika sprayed on Jewish headstone in Germany Photo: AP

Knobloch: Like the days of 1933 Photo: AP

A sharp increase in acts of anti-Semitism has been recorded over the past two years in Germany – so reports the 'Tagesspiegel' daily on Wednesday based on figures complied by the Interior Ministry.

According to the data, over the course of the first eight months of the year 8,000 acts of Neo-Nazi racial crime were documented. This compared to 6,605 in the previous year. The figures show a 20 percent increase compared to 2005 and a 50 percent increase compared to 2004. Over this time period 452 violent anti-Semitic attacks were reported, in which 325 people were injured. During the parallel time period in 2005 363 violent attacks occurred and 302 people were injured.

Among the incidents reported was the startling event reported last week, in which students forced a fellow classmate to bear a sign which said "I am the greatest pig of all because I am friends with Jews" and Neo-Nazi parties where copies of 'Anne Frank's Diary' were thrown into a campfire against the background of racist chants.


'German political system ignoring issue purposely'

The figures were released while extremist right-wing party NPD achieves significant victories in regional elections in the federal state of Mecklenburg West-Pomerania last month, when it broke the votes threshold and ensure representation in the local parliament. Mecklenburg West-Pomerania joins Saxony and Thuringia as the third federal state with NPD parliament representation.

The figures have awoken intense public debate in Germany, several months after managing to display tolerance and openness during the World Cup. Charlotte Knobloch, president of the central Jewish-German council, warned that the trend was a dangerous one. "Anyone who still thinks that we're talking about isolated events doesn't grasp the danger to the community. The aggressiveness we're experiencing is reminiscent of 1933," she said to DPA, the German news agency.

In 1933 Hitler first rose to power as Prime Minister of Germany. Jewish businesses were boycotted and Nazi agents assaulted, threatened and kicked out Jews from German cities. Knobloch blamed the German political system which is ignoring the issue purposely, and is contributing to the rise of anti-Semitism and strengthens the extreme right.

German's domestic intelligence agency, Verfassungsschutz, is trusted with keeping tabs on Neo-Nazi activity in the country. According to the government's figures there are 40,000 right-wing extremists, about a quarter of which are defined as violent skinheads.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3316778,00.html

 

[Volker]

A sharp increase in acts of anti-Semitism has been recorded over the past two years in Germany – so reports the 'Tagesspiegel' daily on Wednesday based on figures complied by the Interior Ministry.

According to the data, over the course of the first eight months of the year 8,000 acts of Neo-Nazi racial crime were documented. This compared to 6,605 in the previous year. The figures show a 20 percent increase compared to 2005 and a 50 percent increase compared to 2004. Over this time period 452 violent anti-Semitic attacks were reported, in which 325 people were injured. During the parallel time period in 2005 363 violent attacks occurred and 302 people were injured.

These are alarming numbers. They are presented here as if there had been 452 attacks against Jewish people. This is not so. There were 452 cases of right-wing violance with 325 people being injured.

The figures were released while extremist right-wing party NPD achieves significant victories in regional elections in the federal state of Mecklenburg West-Pomerania last month, when it broke the votes threshold and ensure representation in the local parliament. Mecklenburg West-Pomerania joins Saxony and Thuringia as the third federal state with NPD parliament representation.

Thuringia does not have a NPD parliament representation and she never had one.

The figures have awoken intense public debate in Germany, several months after managing to display tolerance and openness during the World Cup. Charlotte Knobloch, president of the central Jewish-German council, warned that the trend was a dangerous one. "Anyone who still thinks that we're talking about isolated events doesn't grasp the danger to the community. The aggressiveness we're experiencing is reminiscent of 1933," she said to DPA, the German news agency.

Although Mrs. Knobloch has a point here, I think it's very regrettable that she did not follow her original plan to emigrate to the US.

 

[Flunpk]

I think its alarming how these numbers increase and as a european citizen I have (or at least I think I have) seen an increased activity of the extreme right in some countries. I cant be sure of this because I'm just a regular guy who follows the news.

However I cant recall anything right now that I've heard about Germany. Is this because it gets sweeped under the carpet? I dont know.

I find it hard to see why the German government should ignore this. Can't see what they would lose if they would start some sort of campaign against it.
Of what I have heard Belgium as worse problems in this issue.

I think the article you are reffering to gives a slightly unfair picture of Germany (I think its proven by some of the comments). There are 82,4 miljon people living in Germany and the article says there are 40 000 right-wing extremists and I think its unfair towards the German people to say that the atmosphere in their country is like it was right before the holocaust. I've heard that most of the problems with neo nazis appear in certain areas of Germany (this is very bad for those areas and of course the government should do something about it). I think its unfair to judge Germany as whole.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I don't know much about the current state of how Jews are treated in Germany. This information is interesting. Does anyone have anymore or some specific links I can follow?

 

[Tashah]

I don't know much about the current state of how Jews are treated in Germany. This information is interesting. Does anyone have anymore or some specific links I can follow?

It is difficult to obtain cogent information on attacks against Jews in Europe because most police agencies do not distinguish hate crimes. This is also why it is difficult to obtain information on crimes committed by Muslims on non-Muslims in Europe. Information that is available however, points to an alarming increase in both of these specific categories.

This is precisely why the State of Israel exists... to provide diaspora Jews safe refuge from ethnic/religious persecution and right-wing nationalism.

 

[Volker]

I think its alarming how these numbers increase and as a european citizen I have (or at least I think I have) seen an increased activity of the extreme right in some countries. I cant be sure of this because I'm just a regular guy who follows the news.

The reports of an increase of xenophobic violance is based on statistical data. There was a time, when the statistical increase probably partially was based on reporting cases which have not been seen in this context before. The conception changed a few years ago. I don't think, we still have this statistical effect at this time.

However I cant recall anything right now that I've heard about Germany. Is this because it gets sweeped under the carpet? I dont know.

No, it is not, it is offically reported by answering federal parliamentary requests for instance.

I find it hard to see why the German government should ignore this. Can't see what they would lose if they would start some sort of campaign against it.
Of what I have heard Belgium as worse problems in this issue.

I'm optimistic about Belgium, especially since the Antwerpen elections this year.

I think the article you are reffering to gives a slightly unfair picture of Germany (I think its proven by some of the comments). There are 82,4 miljon people living in Germany and the article says there are 40 000 right-wing extremists and I think its unfair towards the German people to say that the atmosphere in their country is like it was right before the holocaust. I've heard that most of the problems with neo nazis appear in certain areas of Germany (this is very bad for those areas and of course the government should do something about it). I think its unfair to judge Germany as whole.

Yes, this is, what Mrs. Knobloch said. From her personal background I expect her to know about it. She was born in 1932 and grew up at her grandma's home and her grandma died in Auschwitz in the fourties. Mrs. Knobloch survived, because she was brought to a farm by a German woman, who told people, this is her kid. There are many people warning about these developments, people with different political backgrounds, conservatives and socialists, for instance.

 

[Volker]

I don't know much about the current state of how Jews are treated in Germany. This information is interesting. Does anyone have anymore or some specific links I can follow?

I only know German language web sides about topic. A very good source in German language is hagalil.com, but their English section is rather small.

http://www.hagalil.com/aktuell/archiv/english/english.htm

They have been attacked from hackers from Bahrain or so during the time of the Mohamed caricatures, but a lot of it could be restored meanwhile. Obviously the attackers did not speak German, otherwise they would have noticed that this side is very much about reconciliation in the Middle East and they were pretty critical about the publishing of these caricatures.

 

[Volker]

It is difficult to obtain cogent information on attacks against Jews in Europe because most police agencies do not distinguish hate crimes.

This is also why it is difficult to obtain information on crimes committed by Muslims on non-Muslims in Europe. Information that is available however, points to an alarming increase in both of these specific categories.

This is precisely why the State of Israel exists... to provide diaspora Jews safe refuge from ethnic/religious persecution and right-wing nationalism.

I have a German language source with statistics about anti-Semitism related crime in Germany. These are offical numbers, the current one is about second quarter 2006. In this quarter there were 231 criminal cases, fifty of them being propaganda cases and 3 being violance cases. During this time 4 Jewish people have been injured.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I only know German language web sides about topic. A very good source in German language is hagalil.com, but their English section is rather small.

http://www.hagalil.com/aktuell/archiv/english/english.htm

They have been attacked from hackers from Bahrain or so during the time of the Mohamed caricatures, but a lot of it could be restored meanwhile. Obviously the attackers did not speak German, otherwise they would have noticed that this side is very much about reconciliation in the Middle East and they were pretty critical about the publishing of these caricatures.

Thanks, Volker. Link didn't work, but I'm checking out hagalil's German site. Though I don't speak German, Yahoo's translation system isn't terrible, though it does require some 'wading through'.

 

[Flunpk]

I don't know much of the german press but the weekly magazine Der Spiegel seems to have quite a few articles on the subject.

I can't say anything about its credibillity or if it takes any political stands but Its has been mentioned and refered to by Swedish medias, witch I know better.

Found an article about the incident with the boy who was forced to wear a sign on Der Spiegel international
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,442447,00.html

I also found this one, it describes how a certain type of youth is a source for new extremists.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,357628,00.html

Again I dont know about this papers credibillity, I would be greatful if someone (Volker is a good candidate) gave their opinion on the source.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

One thing I noticed in looking at the hagalil website is that the report of all of the violent incidents perpetrated by the neo-nazis seem to be against all victims, not exclusively Jews. Not completely sure of this as the translation is only so-so.

 

[Tashah]

This may be of some benefit...

The Coordination Forum for Countering Antisemitism is a subsection of the Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs and keeps track of many global incidents of Antisemitism.

Israel Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni
​

 

[Gardener]

IMO, any article that addresses the issue of antisemitism does a disservice if it concentrates on antisemitism as exclusively within the pervue of the right wing. This gives a impression that such hatred is limited to the right. Since so much of today's antisemitism arises from the far left, I would think it incumbent for writers to address the issue more comprehensively. Especially in Germany where the Muslim brotherhood found such fertile ground for their Islamist brand of antisemitism, it is the far left that has carried the torch to a great degree. The rhetoric may be more direct when it arises from the right and more specious and abstruse when it arises from the left, but there is a definite confluence in attitudes betweent he two as long as the subject is Israel/Jewish people.


Here is an article that discuss antisemitism in Germany from the left to a small degree.

http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-32.htm

 

[Volker]

I don't know much of the german press but the weekly magazine Der Spiegel seems to have quite a few articles on the subject.

I can't say anything about its credibillity or if it takes any political stands but Its has been mentioned and refered to by Swedish medias, witch I know better.

Found an article about the incident with the boy who was forced to wear a sign on Der Spiegel international
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,442447,00.html

I also found this one, it describes how a certain type of youth is a source for new extremists.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,357628,00.html

Again I dont know about this papers credibillity, I would be greatful if someone (Volker is a good candidate) gave their opinion on the source.

It's kind of difficult with the Spiegel. They are kinda investigative, I don't think, they make up stories, but personally I am a little bit more cautious using it as a source. They are often considered to be slightly left of the middle, while their competitor Stern is seen slightly right of the middle and Focus could be somehow between them.

 

[Volker]

One thing I noticed in looking at the hagalil website is that the report of all of the violent incidents perpetrated by the neo-nazis seem to be against all victims, not exclusively Jews. Not completely sure of this as the translation is only so-so.

Yes, this is true, this is where the article in the initial post gives a wrong impression.

 

[The face of Jacob]

Germany: 7 charged for burning Anne Frank diary

Germany prosecutes men for burning Anne Frank diary, charges them with incitement; disparaging the dead. Local politicians concerned far-right groups gaining strength; Saxony-Anhalt government announces drive to prevent strengthening of neo-Nazis

Associated Press Published: 10.19.06, 17:46

Anne Frank's hiding place: Amsterdam Photo: Shalom Bar Tal

Anne Frank

German prosecutors charge seven men on Thursday for burning a copy of Anne Frank's diary in an incident that stoked concern about the spread of neo-Nazi ideology in eastern Germany.

The men, aged 23-28 are charged with incitement and disparaging the dead for burning the book and praising Adolf Hitler's Nazis at a party in a village in Saxony-Anhalt state on June 24, prosecutor Uwe Horburg said.

They also played down the Holocaust against Europe's Jews during their midsummer night's party, Horburg said in a statement.

Their actions and use of Nazi-style language "mocked Anne Frank and with her all the victims of the former concentration camps," Horburg said.

Mainstream politicians and Jewish leaders are concerned that far-right groups, including violent neo-Nazis, are growing in strength in eastern Germany. Far-right parties sit in three eastern state parliaments.

Experts say they are exploiting the region's shallow democratic roots after decades of communism and tapping frustration at the depressed local economy.

Saxony-Anhalt's state government announced a drive to prevent the spread of far-right ideas earlier this week in response to incidents including the book-burning and alleged anti-Semitism at a school.

Prosecutors are investigating three youths who allegedly forced a student to run around the school yard last week with a sign around his neck reading: "I am the biggest swine in the village, I hang around with Jews."

Anne Frank wrote her famous diary while she and her German-Jewish family hid in an Amsterdam attic for 25 months. They eventually were betrayed to the Nazis, and Frank died at age 15 of typhus at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in 1945.

Only her father survived the war. He published her notes, helping make "The Diary of Anne Frank" the first popular book on the Holocaust.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3317196,00.html

 

[jujuman13]

Quote
(This is precisely why the State of Israel exists... to provide diaspora Jews safe refuge from ethnic/religious persecution and right-wing nationalism.)

Guess it is just a tad unfortunate to be the issue of a mixed Jewish Father/ Christian Mother marriage.
The Nazi's classify such as being Jewish.

I cannot really understand why any Jew would want to live in an uncultured society such as Germany.

The excuse made for them since they were militarily defeated in WWII was that the ordinary population has 'No idea what was happening to the Jews', this is rather like saying that they went around with their eyes closed, when Jewish businesses closed and the ownerss vanished, where did they imagine they went?

Germany has always since it's violent inception up to and including now a semi-barbaric nation of arrogant bully's.
The only saving grace they had ever had was in permitting large scale immigration of Jews escaping Russian and Polish Pogroms.

They belatedly realised that they (the Nazi's) could become immensely wealthy by stealing the wealth of the Jews and by silencing them permanently ensure that no one would be around to ask awkward questions.

No, German aspirations towards those semitic peoples whether Jewish or Muslim, have not changed.
The Germans are only content when they are in the position of being able to bully a minority of their population.

 

[Volker]

Guess it is just a tad unfortunate to be the issue of a mixed Jewish Father/ Christian Mother marriage.

Do you speak about yourself here?

I cannot really understand why any Jew would want to live in an uncultured society such as Germany.

These kind of statements show, that you seem to have no idea about Germany.

The excuse made for them since they were militarily defeated in WWII was that the ordinary population has 'No idea what was happening to the Jews', this is rather like saying that they went around with their eyes closed, when Jewish businesses closed and the ownerss vanished, where did they imagine they went?

Probably many thought, it was about relocation and labour camps.

Germany has always since it's violent inception up to and including now a semi-barbaric nation of arrogant bully's.

You are a self admitted racist, this statement seems to match you mindset.

The only saving grace they had ever had was in permitting large scale immigration of Jews escaping Russian and Polish Pogroms.

As far as I know, most of the Jewish people in Germany came here 50 years after the last pogrom in Europe took place.

They belatedly realised that they (the Nazi's) could become immensely wealthy by stealing the wealth of the Jews and by silencing them permanently ensure that no one would be around to ask awkward questions.

No, German aspirations towards those semitic peoples whether Jewish or Muslim, have not changed.
The Germans are only content when they are in the position of being able to bully a minority of their population.

Generalizations do not make you sound more credible.

 

[Rachel]

Although Mrs. Knobloch has a point here, I think it's very regrettable that she did not follow her original plan to emigrate to the US.

Perhaps you should say to her "Juden raus".

 

[Volker]

Perhaps you should say to her "Juden raus".

She wanted to go to America after the war. In a Spiegel interview from two months ago she said, she has no plans to emigrate anymore. She said she never regretted that she stayed here and she is glad that she decided it this way.

I don't like some of her political views.

 

[Rachel]

She wanted to go to America after the war. In a Spiegel interview from two months ago she said, she has no plans to emigrate anymore. She said she never regretted that she stayed here and she is glad that she decided it this way.

I don't like some of her political views.

Well I think it is regrettable that you feel that people you don't like or just don't agree with should leave your country. It's not very tolerant...

 

[Volker]

Well I think it is regrettable that you feel that people you don't like or just don't agree with should leave your country. It's not very tolerant...

It was her plan to leave the country. If she would have done so, maybe they would have picked a person for the job I like better. She did not, they did not pick someone else, this is very regrettable to me.

She has been in charge since June 2006 and and she has said a lot of strange things since then.

 

[Salazar]

Quote
(This is precisely why the State of Israel exists... to provide diaspora Jews safe refuge from ethnic/religious persecution and right-wing nationalism.)

Guess it is just a tad unfortunate to be the issue of a mixed Jewish Father/ Christian Mother marriage.
The Nazi's classify such as being Jewish.

I cannot really understand why any Jew would want to live in an uncultured society such as Germany.

Your style of thinking is obviously closely related to that of the Nazis, even having jewish ancestors doesn't protect you from that. What a shame.

The excuse made for them since they were militarily defeated in WWII was that the ordinary population has 'No idea what was happening to the Jews', this is rather like saying that they went around with their eyes closed, when Jewish businesses closed and the ownerss vanished, where did they imagine they went?

What would you expect in a more or less totalitarian dictature? Many Germans helped the jewish population, others were afraid, most truly didnt have a clue of the death camps and a few - like it would be in any nation (even in Israel)- agreed with the killing of innocent people.

Germany has always since it's violent inception up to and including now a semi-barbaric nation of arrogant bully's.

Have you ever been there? Do you know any German? Do you know how people with the slightest sympathy for antisemitic/racist ideas are literally persecuted over there? No? Then shut up.
And by the way: If I were to hold your opinions, I would be very careful about calling others barbaric as that might easily turn back on you.

No, German aspirations towards those semitic peoples whether Jewish or Muslim, have not changed.
The Germans are only content when they are in the position of being able to bully a minority of their population.

Hmm, right. Thats why they accepted millions of Turks and tens or hundreds of thousands of eastern European Jews. :roll:

 

[Salazar]

Perhaps you should say to her "Juden raus".

What a primitive response.

 

[Volker]

What a primitive response.

There is no need to be mean here with Rachel.