German Green Party haunted by pro-pedophilia stances in its past

[German guy]

The German Green Party (officially B'90/Greens since 1993) came into existence in 1979 and first won seats in the federal parliament in 1983.

The progressive-environmentalist party has since become the 3rd strongest party in Germany, as junior partner in the center-left federal government 1998-2005, leading Germany into its first military engagement after WW2 in the Kosovo war and Afghanistan. It also supported the greatest reforms of the unemployment and welfare system in German history, which once again made Germany fit for the 21st century economically. Their greatest achievement is probably the push for alternative energies (which have increased from 4% to ca. 20% in the past 12 years) and the decision in favor of a nuclear power phase-out (which center-right Merkel confirmed).

In one German state, they're running the government as strongest party and they are junior partners to the center-left Social Democrats (SPD) in many others. Current polls see the Greens at 13% to 14% of the votes nationally. Their state results in elections range up to ca. 25% of the votes.

Their most famous figurehead was probably Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor 1998-2005:



But the Greens were not always as established and successful. In the 80s, they were considered a chaotic catchment basin of various social groups in tradition of the (sometimes violent and radical) student protests of 1968, including radical ideologues. There were radical pacifists, environmentalists, Maoists, and civil right advocates of all kind.

One major group forming the Greens were the heirs of the sexual revolution: Free love, love before marriage, family planning and contraception, pro-choice, alternative models of life (such as free-love communes), feminism and legalization of homosexuality. Breaking up traditional sexual taboos.

Including pedophilia, or so it seems.

Pedophiles used the general atmosphere of the sexual revolution to advance their agenda, and many Greens and alternatives in general seemed to uncritically join them, throwing out the baby with the bathwater (no pun intended).

Left-alternative publications of that time provided a platform for pedophiles, such as the major alternative daily "die tageszeitung (taz)" or "zitty". Pedophiles, in that social atmosphere, called "consensual sexual relations" between children and adults "a crime without a victim", and mused about how actively teaching kids "good sexuality" is allegedly good for their development.

The Green Party had a "work group" called "Homosexuals, pederasts and cross-genders" until 1987, when it was dissolved because of a growing suspicion towards pedophilia.

One of the most famous Greens, the French-German EU parliament MP Daniel Cohn-Bendit, was confronted with an article he wrote in 1975 for such a paper, in which he describes his "erotic" encounters with toddlers, when he worked in a "Kinderladen" (an alternative, "anti-authoritarian" form of daycare that became popular among alternatives in the 1970s).

Now, of course, all older Greens involved with these activities, claim that it was a bad mistake and they way overshot the mark when questioning conservative, "square" sexual morals. They now understand how damaging pedophilia is, say their previous writings in these regards were "immature sins of youth", and the Green Party officially administered an independent commission to examine potential cases of abuse, headed by a renommeed German crimial psychologist, who already investigated on abuse scandals in the Catholic Church.

For some reason, this commission won't be finished until well after the upcoming election.

source (Zeit Online German)


I can only imagine what kind of ****storm this scandal would cause in America. But it doesn't really take place in Germany. Maybe that's because Germans feel the Greens have long abandoned their radical, "anti-square" past and have become a very established, serious and rather square party?

At any rate, I hope the Greens will do everything they can to shed light on this problem. They should develop a sense of self-criticism, after decades of (rightfully) condemning others, such as the old Nazi parents or newer authoritarians. For a change, they could blame themselves for their past mistakes.

It would also help to make their criticism of the Catholic Church in the recent scandals sound more convincing. IMO.

Oh, and this mindset is apparently not limited to the Greens: A candidate for MP of the Free Democrats (Merkel's junior partners) has now resigned too, because of a pro-pedophilia article she wrote in her youth. That party, the FDP, can best be described as "moderately libertarian" by American standards (as it is socially progressive but economically pro-market and anti-government).

http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2013-08/fdp-paedophilie-dagmar-doering

 

[Goshin]

Wow. Just.... wow.

 

[German guy]

Wow. Just.... wow.

Yep, I was surprised as well... but maybe you can tell me what surprises you most?

As absurd as it sounds, but I guess (West-)Germany was really ideologically confused after WW2. The "68s" (the student protests of that year and beyond) have the historical merit of the first post-WW2 generation radically questioning their Nazi parents and making German crimes a topic from the 70s on (after it had mostly been ignored by the public in the 50s and 60s, and many low-rank Nazis were running the show again, exchanging their Nazi slogans for Catholic-conservative slogans... even the anti-communist propagandists were allowed to go on as before).

The "68s" radically questioned all that. They radically questioned war, conformism, authority, sexual morals. In America, these protests at that time were tame in comparison, because your people at least had no utterly evil Nazi parents. But way too many "68s" overshot the mark, and went way too far, IMO. They experimented with leftist ideologies and became mere mirror images of their Nazi parents, algebraic signs reversed. And many threw out common sense with the old traditions that had become discredited due to Nazism: The Nazis lied about war, they lied about government, they lied about race, they lied about the role of women, they lied about the role of the individual -- so maybe they lied about alternative sex too?

I'm really glad I was born a generation later, after the pendulum had finally swung a bit back to normal, and now has less energy.

 

[Goshin]

Yep, I was surprised as well... but maybe you can tell me what surprises you most?

As absurd as it sounds, but I guess (West-)Germany was really ideologically confused after WW2. The "68s" (the student protests of that year and beyond) have the historical merit of the first post-WW2 generation radically questioning their Nazi parents and making German crimes a topic from the 70s on (after it had mostly been ignored by the public in the 50s and 60s, and many low-rank Nazis were running the show again, exchanging their Nazi slogans for Catholic-conservative slogans... even the anti-communist propagandists were allowed to go on as before).

The "68s" radically questioned all that. They radically questioned war, conformism, authority, sexual morals. In America, these protests at that time were tame in comparison, because your people at least had no utterly evil Nazi parents. But way too many "68s" overshot the mark, and went way too far, IMO. They experimented with leftist ideologies and became mere mirror images of their Nazi parents, algebraic signs reversed. And many threw out common sense with the old traditions that had become discredited due to Nazism: The Nazis lied about war, they lied about government, they lied about race, they lied about the role of women, they lied about the role of the individual -- so maybe they lied about alternative sex too?

I'm really glad I was born a generation later, after the pendulum had finally swung a bit back to normal, and now has less energy.

Hm, well part of my surprise is that any poli who had that in his background would have any career left. I don't think they would, here.... though I could be wrong.


I can see what you're saying about the post-ww2 generation throwing everything out and going too far with it though.

 

[winston53660]

I don't think Joseph Beuys would support a position like that.

 

[Fisher]

On the sex stuff, I do not find them that different than the progressives in the US--they just sell it differently. Those who oppose parental notification laws for abortion are enabling the sexual exploitation of minors by incestuous relationships, molestation by adults, and facilitate the underground child prostitution rings.

 

[German guy]

Hm, well part of my surprise is that any poli who had that in his background would have any career left. I don't think they would, here.... though I could be wrong.

Well, as far as I know, there are only accusations against Daniel Cohn-Bendit so far, and he was bitterly attacked for it (in France, though, as he has been running in France for a while now). There are no individual accusations so far against certain figures, beyond "silent agreement" with ugly publications... there have not been victims accusing them so far, for example, as there were in case of Catholic institutions.

So this is less a case of individual blame so far, but more a question how that party in general could tolerate (or even support?) such activities under their name for such a long time (at least until 1987, it seems).

I guess if one of their politicians was found to be involved of actual child abuse, his carreer would be over here too.

 

[winston53660]

Wow. Just.... wow.

Don't be fooled. His links are in German and when translated are nothing more than a World Nut Daily editorial.

 

[German guy]

Don't be fooled. His links are in German and when translated are nothing more than a World Nut Daily editorial.

You speak German?

Seriously though, the articles are from the online version of "Die Zeit", probably the most renommeed and high-brow German weekly.

 

[winston53660]

You speak German?

Nö, aber ich weiß, wie man übersetzen

 

[German guy]

Nö, aber ich weiß, wie man übersetzen

Hey, das ist nicht schlecht! (That's not bad!) Kudos to you!

And I'm really not trying to smear the Greens. For the record, I've been voting for them several times, once was even a member and am still rather fond of them. I kind of grew up within an alternative-academic environment close to the Greens (uhm no, I was never abused as a kid, but I kind of understand the mindset on which this grew, so much I consider it plausible).

I applaud the Greens today for their convincing tightrope walk between ideals and pragmatism (I believe they are the most honest party), their long way to maturity (they first had a push when they allowed many East German civil rights activists in in 1993 -- "Bündnis 90" and then once again proved their maturity and pragmatism when joined the federal government 1998-2005) ... so far, it was comfortable supporting them, because they had no dark spot on their vest (had always been on the good side of history, unlike the center-right Christian Dems and "moderately libertarian" Free Dems who allowed many old Nazis in after 1945, or the center-left Social Dems with their socialist-Marxist past).

But as good as that party may be, strictly in favor of individual freedom socially, it's somehow refreshing to see they're no saints either. Their past is as rocky (as German?) as that of the other parties too. Maybe now, they've finally become a really established party.

 

[Artevelde]

Just another example of the hypocrisy of the Greens.

 

[Sanddune]

The German Green Party (officially B'90/Greens since 1993) came into existence in 1979 and first won seats in the federal parliament in 1983.

The progressive-environmentalist party has since become the 3rd strongest party in Germany, as junior partner in the center-left federal government 1998-2005, leading Germany into its first military engagement after WW2 in the Kosovo war and Afghanistan. It also supported the greatest reforms of the unemployment and welfare system in German history, which once again made Germany fit for the 21st century economically. Their greatest achievement is probably the push for alternative energies (which have increased from 4% to ca. 20% in the past 12 years) and the decision in favor of a nuclear power phase-out (which center-right Merkel confirmed).

In one German state, they're running the government as strongest party and they are junior partners to the center-left Social Democrats (SPD) in many others. Current polls see the Greens at 13% to 14% of the votes nationally. Their state results in elections range up to ca. 25% of the votes.

Their most famous figurehead was probably Joschka Fischer, German Foreign Minister and Vice Chancellor 1998-2005:
View attachment 67151875


But the Greens were not always as established and successful. In the 80s, they were considered a chaotic catchment basin of various social groups in tradition of the (sometimes violent and radical) student protests of 1968, including radical ideologues. There were radical pacifists, environmentalists, Maoists, and civil right advocates of all kind.

One major group forming the Greens were the heirs of the sexual revolution: Free love, love before marriage, family planning and contraception, pro-choice, alternative models of life (such as free-love communes), feminism and legalization of homosexuality. Breaking up traditional sexual taboos.

Including pedophilia, or so it seems.

Pedophiles used the general atmosphere of the sexual revolution to advance their agenda, and many Greens and alternatives in general seemed to uncritically join them, throwing out the baby with the bathwater (no pun intended).

Left-alternative publications of that time provided a platform for pedophiles, such as the major alternative daily "die tageszeitung (taz)" or "zitty". Pedophiles, in that social atmosphere, called "consensual sexual relations" between children and adults "a crime without a victim", and mused about how actively teaching kids "good sexuality" is allegedly good for their development.

The Green Party had a "work group" called "Homosexuals, pederasts and cross-genders" until 1987, when it was dissolved because of a growing suspicion towards pedophilia.

One of the most famous Greens, the French-German EU parliament MP Daniel Cohn-Bendit, was confronted with an article he wrote in 1975 for such a paper, in which he describes his "erotic" encounters with toddlers, when he worked in a "Kinderladen" (an alternative, "anti-authoritarian" form of daycare that became popular among alternatives in the 1970s).

Now, of course, all older Greens involved with these activities, claim that it was a bad mistake and they way overshot the mark when questioning conservative, "square" sexual morals. They now understand how damaging pedophilia is, say their previous writings in these regards were "immature sins of youth", and the Green Party officially administered an independent commission to examine potential cases of abuse, headed by a renommeed German crimial psychologist, who already investigated on abuse scandals in the Catholic Church.

For some reason, this commission won't be finished until well after the upcoming election.

source (Zeit Online German)


I can only imagine what kind of ****storm this scandal would cause in America. But it doesn't really take place in Germany. Maybe that's because Germans feel the Greens have long abandoned their radical, "anti-square" past and have become a very established, serious and rather square party?

At any rate, I hope the Greens will do everything they can to shed light on this problem. They should develop a sense of self-criticism, after decades of (rightfully) condemning others, such as the old Nazi parents or newer authoritarians. For a change, they could blame themselves for their past mistakes.

It would also help to make their criticism of the Catholic Church in the recent scandals sound more convincing. IMO.

Oh, and this mindset is apparently not limited to the Greens: A candidate for MP of the Free Democrats (Merkel's junior partners) has now resigned too, because of a pro-pedophilia article she wrote in her youth. That party, the FDP, can best be described as "moderately libertarian" by American standards (as it is socially progressive but economically pro-market and anti-government).

Pädophilie-Text: FDP-Politikerin zieht Kandidatur zurück | ZEIT ONLINE

Didn't know that they sexually liberated children as well (at least those they were interested in).

The funny thing is, those 68er are often extremely similar to the people they hate. They confronted the nazi crimes, but not only were they ideologically just as pigheaded as the nazis (just on the left side), their accross-the-board collective accusations also shifted the nazi principle of Sippenhaft to the moral domain and took it to the extreme by applying it to an entire nation and generation. Nowadays they are correcting that by focussing on German wartime and postwar suffering just before their parents die. Their idea of the Germans being a national community bound by inherited collective guilt which trickles down on every German bears some resemblance to the nazi "Volksgemeinschaft" idea.

What I didn't know is their resemblance to the catholic church (due to its conservatism probably their second best enemy after the old nazis) when it comes to moral pretense. Feeling morally superior to everyone else but not caring too much about child rape... where do you find that except with the catholic church and the 68ers?

 

[German guy]

Didn't know that they sexually liberated children as well (at least those they were interested in).

The funny thing is, those 68er are often extremely similar to the people they hate. They confronted the nazi crimes, but not only were they ideologically just as pigheaded as the nazis (just on the left side), their accross-the-board collective accusations also shifted the nazi principle of Sippenhaft to the moral domain and took it to the extreme by applying it to an entire nation and generation. Nowadays they are correcting that by focussing on German wartime and postwar suffering just before their parents die. Their idea of the Germans being a national community bound by inherited collective guilt which trickles down on every German bears some resemblance to the nazi "Volksgemeinschaft" idea.

What I didn't know is their resemblance to the catholic church (due to its conservatism probably their second best enemy after the old nazis) when it comes to moral pretense. Feeling morally superior to everyone else but not caring too much about child rape... where do you find that except with the catholic church and the 68ers?

Yes, that's more or less my impression too, although I'd say it's hard to generalize such a diverse movement as the 68s. Many of the less extreme proponents eventually grew up and became reasonable. And those certainly did a good service for German "Vergangenheitsbewältigung".

But the ideological hard cases... absolutely. I know enough examples first hand, like the father of a highschool buddy of mine, who used to be a die-hard 68s ideologue, Marx and Marcuse, extremely intelligent but totally lacking common sense... a kind of guy who once was right 40 years ago and has never ever erred since. The left-ideologues of their time, then praising mass murders like Mao and Pol Pot, hiding the anti-Semitism they got from their Nazi parents behind "Israel criticism" and "anti-imperialism", totally ready to break a few necks on the way to uptoia... are probably the most authoritarian people next to the Nazis.

Btw, I read an interesting book on the topic a while ago, "Unser Kampf" by Götz Aly. He used to be a 68er himself, but now feels like he must bash his old friends and his own generation. The key phrase of his stance is "die 68er waren ihren Eltern (den 33ern) auf elende Weise ähnlich" (they were similar to their parents in an eerily ugly fashion). Pretty interesting read.

 

[Sanddune]

Yes, that's more or less my impression too, although I'd say it's hard to generalize such a diverse movement as the 68s. Many of the less extreme proponents eventually grew up and became reasonable. And those certainly did a good service for German "Vergangenheitsbewältigung".

But the ideological hard cases... absolutely. I know enough examples first hand, like the father of a highschool buddy of mine, who used to be a die-hard 68s ideologue, Marx and Marcuse, extremely intelligent but totally lacking common sense... a kind of guy who once was right 40 years ago and has never ever erred since. The left-ideologues of their time, then praising mass murders like Mao and Pol Pot, hiding the anti-Semitism they got from their Nazi parents behind "Israel criticism" and "anti-imperialism", totally ready to break a few necks on the way to uptoia... are probably the most authoritarian people next to the Nazis.

Btw, I read an interesting book on the topic a while ago, "Unser Kampf" by Götz Aly. He used to be a 68er himself, but now feels like he must bash his old friends and his own generation. The key phrase of his stance is "die 68er waren ihren Eltern (den 33ern) auf elende Weise ähnlich" (they were similar to their parents in an eerily ugly fashion). Pretty interesting read.

"Unser Kampf"... that's not nice really
Oh yes I forgot to mention the "maoism"... oh, another parallel: they rebelled against the traditional values of society, which their parents had also done in the Hitler youth (after all part of the nazi ideology was to abolish social classes and make everyone in the "master race" equal). The difference is that the 68ers did it by themselves and not under state instruction.