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German AFD to officially become an anti-Islam party

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The new German party Alternative für Deutschland (AFD), which was founded in 2013 and has entered 8 out of 16 German state parliaments so far (with results between 5.5% and 24.3% of the votes), is in the process of writing a first official platform paper.

Deputy party chairwoman Beatrix von Storch said: "Islam in itself is a political ideology that is not compatible with the Grundgesetz [German constitution]". Deputy chairman Alexander Gauland added: "Islam is not a religion like Catholic or Protestant Christianity, but intellectually always connected to taking over the state. Because of this, islamization is a danger for Germany". And: "We are a Christian-laicist country, and Islam is a foreign body. In reality, there is no such thing as a Euro-Islam". He added: "Many Muslims belong to Germany, Islam does not."

They said because of that, they want to write a ban on Muslim symbols into their platform paper, such as a ban on minarets, muezzins or wearing burka.

There shall be more control of mosques and Quran schools, and they shall be closed if necessary.

Von Storch: ?Islam nicht mit Grundgesetz vereinbar?

But this course is apparently controversial even within the AFD leadership: Deputy chairman Jörg Meuthen, who is considered more moderate, voiced disagreement: "I don't see Islam as a mere political ideology, but as a religion, too." People shall be allowed to live according to their religious convictions. "Freedom of religion is part of the Grundgesetz [German constitution]." But he added: "It cannot be overlooked that there is no other religion that has such a strong political focus, or articulates such strong ambitions for the submission of people with different beliefs".

Jörg Meuthen: AfD-Chef widerspricht hartem Anti-Islam-Kurs - DIE WELT


The AFD was founded in 2013 by the libertarian, eurosceptic professor of economics, Bernd Lucke. In the 2013 general election, it narrowly failed to enter the Federal Parliament with 4.7% of the votes (5.0% are required). Last summer, Lucke lost the election for party chairmanship to Frauke Petry, who was considered a prime figure of the party's national-conservative wing. Subsequently, many libertarian-minded people left the party.

The AFD, which is now generally considered a "right-wing populist" party, has won 7.0% in the election to the European Parliament in 2014, and entered 7 German state parliaments with results between 5.5% and 15.1% of the votes -- but its biggest success was the state election in the Eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, where it become party #2 with 24.3% of the votes.

Observers state that Merkel's effort of shifting her center-right CDU further to the left, so much that many conservative-minded former supporters no longer identify with that party, has opened the doors for the establishment of a party to the right of the CDU. The recent refugee situation has further provided the AFD with an important topic to capitalize on, as no other party present in the parliament opposed Merkel's policies.

This is a novelty in the German party spectrum: Ever since 1961, no party on the right-wing was ever successful, next to Merkel's CDU.

In the meantime, polling results for Merkel's CDU are pretty bad: The party is polled at between 31.5% and 33% of the votes. Between the 2013 election and summer 2015, it had been steadily polled at around 40%.

The AFD is polled at between 10.5% and 13% of the votes on national level.

Sonntagsfrage ? Wahlumfragen zur Bundestagswahl (Wahlumfrage, Umfragen)
 

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The new German party Alternative für Deutschland (AFD), which was founded in 2013 and has entered 8 out of 16 German state parliaments so far (with results between 5.5% and 24.3% of the votes), is in the process of writing a first official platform paper.

Deputy party chairwoman Beatrix von Storch said: "Islam in itself is a political ideology that is not compatible with the Grundgesetz [German constitution]". Deputy chairman Alexander Gauland added: "Islam is not a religion like Catholic or Protestant Christianity, but intellectually always connected to taking over the state. Because of this, islamization is a danger for Germany". And: "We are a Christian-laicist country, and Islam is a foreign body. In reality, there is no such thing as a Euro-Islam". He added: "Many Muslims belong to Germany, Islam does not."

They said because of that, they want to write a ban on Muslim symbols into their platform paper, such as a ban on minarets, muezzins or wearing burka.

There shall be more control of mosques and Quran schools, and they shall be closed if necessary.

Von Storch: ?Islam nicht mit Grundgesetz vereinbar?

But this course is apparently controversial even within the AFD leadership: Deputy chairman Jörg Meuthen, who is considered more moderate, voiced disagreement: "I don't see Islam as a mere political ideology, but as a religion, too." People shall be allowed to live according to their religious convictions. "Freedom of religion is part of the Grundgesetz [German constitution]." But he added: "It cannot be overlooked that there is no other religion that has such a strong political focus, or articulates such strong ambitions for the submission of people with different beliefs".

Jörg Meuthen: AfD-Chef widerspricht hartem Anti-Islam-Kurs - DIE WELT


The AFD was founded in 2013 by the libertarian, eurosceptic professor of economics, Bernd Lucke. In the 2013 general election, it narrowly failed to enter the Federal Parliament with 4.7% of the votes (5.0% are required). Last summer, Lucke lost the election for party chairmanship to Frauke Petry, who was considered a prime figure of the party's national-conservative wing. Subsequently, many libertarian-minded people left the party.

The AFD, which is now generally considered a "right-wing populist" party, has won 7.0% in the election to the European Parliament in 2014, and entered 7 German state parliaments with results between 5.5% and 15.1% of the votes -- but its biggest success was the state election in the Eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, where it become party #2 with 24.3% of the votes.

Observers state that Merkel's effort of shifting her center-right CDU further to the left, so much that many conservative-minded former supporters no longer identify with that party, has opened the doors for the establishment of a party to the right of the CDU. The recent refugee situation has further provided the AFD with an important topic to capitalize on, as no other party present in the parliament opposed Merkel's policies.

This is a novelty in the German party spectrum: Ever since 1961, no party on the right-wing was ever successful, next to Merkel's CDU.

In the meantime, polling results for Merkel's CDU are pretty bad: The party is polled at between 31.5% and 33% of the votes. Between the 2013 election and summer 2015, it had been steadily polled at around 40%.

The AFD is polled at between 10.5% and 13% of the votes on national level.

Sonntagsfrage ? Wahlumfragen zur Bundestagswahl (Wahlumfrage, Umfragen)

I'm no fan of Islam, but I certainly recognize these people as my political adversaries. They would certainly condemn their own Christian ancestors who also rejected the insane worldview of secularism.

And the "Islam isn't a religion" bit is nonsense. By their understanding, there were no religions in the world until about 250 years ago, since everyone prior to then embraced some form of confessionalism. The main* reason that Islam is seen to be more political today than other religions, is because it is the least corrupted (compared to its prior state, obviously Islam is inherently corrupt as it follows a false prophet).

*It is of course true that, merging Christianity's universalism with Judaism's legalism, Islam does have a unique view of the relation of law to theology, but I doubt that these people know or care about such nuances.
 
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The new German party Alternative für Deutschland (AFD), which was founded in 2013 and has entered 8 out of 16 German state parliaments so far (with results between 5.5% and 24.3% of the votes), is in the process of writing a first official platform paper.

Deputy party chairwoman Beatrix von Storch said: "Islam in itself is a political ideology that is not compatible with the Grundgesetz [German constitution]". Deputy chairman Alexander Gauland added: "Islam is not a religion like Catholic or Protestant Christianity, but intellectually always connected to taking over the state. Because of this, islamization is a danger for Germany". And: "We are a Christian-laicist country, and Islam is a foreign body. In reality, there is no such thing as a Euro-Islam". He added: "Many Muslims belong to Germany, Islam does not."

They said because of that, they want to write a ban on Muslim symbols into their platform paper, such as a ban on minarets, muezzins or wearing burka.

There shall be more control of mosques and Quran schools, and they shall be closed if necessary.
.......[/url]

Though, I am very reticent about the AfD since Dr Lucke left and feel they have strayed into dangerous water, It is not as simple as Made out be German politicians. It is quite true that Islam was structured as a political movement for conquest. But it is wrong to think that Christian religions are more compatible with the German legal system than Islam. They are not. The difference is that the local religious Christians are willing to act against fundamental postulates of their religion. This is true even though the society has grown out of Christian ethics to where it is now. The Muslims do not have that advantage and are less willing to break their code as well as rightly feeling themselves underprivileged.
Also the media and parties have been careless in choosing their arguments. When Petri recently said that it might be necessary in extremis to use weapons to protect the boarders, traditional parties and the media including state tv and radio accused her of all sorts of evil. Only days later the EU boarders had been defended using arms. This was well noticed and most people saw a dichotomy in the fundamental arguments on which their society has rested bared and the elite revealed to be populist hypocrites, while Petry was obviously speaking the truth.
 

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I'm no fan of Islam, but I certainly recognize these people as my political adversaries. They would certainly condemn their own Christian ancestors who also rejected the insane worldview of secularism.

And the "Islam isn't a religion" bit is nonsense. By their understanding, there were no religions in the world until about 250 years ago, since everyone prior to then embraced some form of confessionalism. The main* reason that Islam is seen to be more political today than other religions, is because it is the least corrupted (compared to its prior state, obviously Islam is inherently corrupt as it follows a false prophet).

*It is of course true that, merging Christianity's universalism with Judaism's legalism, Islam does have a unique view of the relation of law to theology, but I doubt that these people know or care about such nuances.

Well, I guess your estimation of the AFD is correct.

But it's an angle I haven't considered before: Someone who is critical of the AFD because it's not right-wing enough. ;)

What a diverse bunch of people here on this forum, eh? :D
 

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Though, I am very reticent about the AfD since Dr Lucke left and feel they have strayed into dangerous water, It is not as simple as Made out be German politicians. It is quite true that Islam was structured as a political movement for conquest. But it is wrong to think that Christian religions are more compatible with the German legal system than Islam. They are not. The difference is that the local religious Christians are willing to act against fundamental postulates of their religion. This is true even though the society has grown out of Christian ethics to where it is now. The Muslims do not have that advantage and are less willing to break their code as well as rightly feeling themselves underprivileged.
Also the media and parties have been careless in choosing their arguments. When Petri recently said that it might be necessary in extremis to use weapons to protect the boarders, traditional parties and the media including state tv and radio accused her of all sorts of evil. Only days later the EU boarders had been defended using arms. This was well noticed and most people saw a dichotomy in the fundamental arguments on which their society has rested bared and the elite revealed to be populist hypocrites, while Petry was obviously speaking the truth.

IMO, the established parties had it coming. They mostly avoided a truly open and controversial debate over the bad sides of Muslim immigration so far, out of the fear of dividing the public. Merkel's refugee policies were just the tip of the iceberg. So now, the division is there, so there is no sense in further trying to avoid it. Better address it now.

Personally, I'm not too fond of the AFD. There are a couple of sinister figures in that party, with connections to anti-constitutional right-wing extremism, and I'm not sure how influential they are. Generally, I'm not thrilled about the prospect of another party in the spectrum that has a questionable attitude towards the Grundgesetz (constitution).

That said, I'm not terribly concerned either. We've done okay in the past 25 years or so, with one party on the far-left. Now we have one on the right, too, and most likely, the sky won't fall either. As long as the AFD plays by the rules and respects the democratic republican order, it's just what happens in a free country.

What annoys me most is the prospect of eternal "grand coalitions" on national level (because the CDU will refuse to cooperate with the AFD, much like the SPD refuses to form a coalition with the Left Party). This lack of polarization is not good for political culture on the long run, IMO. It's just not healthy when it doesn't matter whom you vote for, you'll get a centrist "grand coalition" anyway. I'd rather see CDU and SPD being bold, and forming clear-cut right-wing or left-wing coalitions -- for that your vote actually matters.
 

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Though, I am very reticent about the AfD since Dr Lucke left and feel they have strayed into dangerous water, It is not as simple as Made out be German politicians. It is quite true that Islam was structured as a political movement for conquest. But it is wrong to think that Christian religions are more compatible with the German legal system than Islam. They are not. The difference is that the local religious Christians are willing to act against fundamental postulates of their religion. This is true even though the society has grown out of Christian ethics to where it is now. The Muslims do not have that advantage and are less willing to break their code as well as rightly feeling themselves underprivileged.
Also the media and parties have been careless in choosing their arguments. When Petri recently said that it might be necessary in extremis to use weapons to protect the boarders, traditional parties and the media including state tv and radio accused her of all sorts of evil. Only days later the EU boarders had been defended using arms. This was well noticed and most people saw a dichotomy in the fundamental arguments on which their society has rested bared and the elite revealed to be populist hypocrites, while Petry was obviously speaking the truth.
Where I'm basically d'accord with your assessments, which case of armed force in defence of EU borders are you referring to?
 

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Just to address this observation
......................What annoys me most is the prospect of eternal "grand coalitions" on national level (because the CDU will refuse to cooperate with the AFD, much like the SPD refuses to form a coalition with the Left Party). This lack of polarization is not good for political culture on the long run, IMO. It's just not healthy when it doesn't matter whom you vote for, you'll get a centrist "grand coalition" anyway. I'd rather see CDU and SPD being bold, and forming clear-cut right-wing or left-wing coalitions -- for that your vote actually matters.
.......the issue of the "traditionals" seeking the centre has of course been a problem since long before the AfD arose.

Unification presenting the established 3 (then, later, 4) party system with yet another vote grabber in the lefties and that lot gaining more and more votes in direct proportion to (primarily) East German disillusionment.

The fact that the conservative/social democrat coalition of today can just about grab 55 pct of the vote is telling. Where it suffices to provide a comfortable majority, no other possible coalition is conceivable outside of that. The Socials together with the Left and Greens can't cut it and the conservatives wouldn't have enough, even if they coalesced (at some future point) with something as currently questionable as the AfD.

With the Liberals (not the US version) so badly burned by past experience that if they get into the Fed parliament again they'd be damned if they do and damned if they don't, in providing the sway for any or either conceivable camp.

Hardly Weimarian but the memory will nevertheless arise.

What escapes many is that this unsatisfactory political landscape has arisen in large parts from the Merkel method. Grabbing any opposing political issue and making it her (their) own, to then pursue it with the traditional lack of vision, inspiration and, sadly, commitment.
 

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Just to address this observation.......the issue of the "traditionals" seeking the centre has of course been a problem since long before the AfD arose.

Unification presenting the established 3 (then, later, 4) party system with yet another vote grabber in the lefties and that lot gaining more and more votes in direct proportion to (primarily) East German disillusionment.

The fact that the conservative/social democrat coalition of today can just about grab 55 pct of the vote is telling. Where it suffices to provide a comfortable majority, no other possible coalition is conceivable outside of that. The Socials together with the Left and Greens can't cut it and the conservatives wouldn't have enough, even if they coalesced (at some future point) with something as currently questionable as the AfD.

With the Liberals (not the US version) so badly burned by past experience that if they get into the Fed parliament again they'd be damned if they do and damned if they don't, in providing the sway for any or either conceivable camp.

Hardly Weimarian but the memory will nevertheless arise.

What escapes many is that this unsatisfactory political landscape has arisen in large parts from the Merkel method. Grabbing any opposing political issue and making it her (their) own, to then pursue it with the traditional lack of vision, inspiration and, sadly, commitment.

Well, before the AFD rose, there was almost constantly a (merely mathematical) majority for SPD/Greens/Left Party for almost a decade, after 2005.

Likewise, CDU/CSU and AFD are, mathematically, not too far from a majority.

What's apparently missing is the political will for such clear-cut left-wing or right-wing coalitions (and yeah, as long as Merkel is still at the head of the CDU, she can't cooperate with the AFD, much like Schröder could never have cooperated with the Left Party, as their chancellorships were the very reason for the rise of the respective parties).
 

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The new German party Alternative für Deutschland (AFD), which was founded in 2013 and has entered 8 out of 16 German state parliaments so far (with results between 5.5% and 24.3% of the votes), is in the process of writing a first official platform paper.

Deputy party chairwoman Beatrix von Storch said: "Islam in itself is a political ideology that is not compatible with the Grundgesetz [German constitution]". Deputy chairman Alexander Gauland added: "Islam is not a religion like Catholic or Protestant Christianity, but intellectually always connected to taking over the state. Because of this, islamization is a danger for Germany". And: "We are a Christian-laicist country, and Islam is a foreign body. In reality, there is no such thing as a Euro-Islam". He added: "Many Muslims belong to Germany, Islam does not."

They said because of that, they want to write a ban on Muslim symbols into their platform paper, such as a ban on minarets, muezzins or wearing burka.

There shall be more control of mosques and Quran schools, and they shall be closed if necessary.

Von Storch: ?Islam nicht mit Grundgesetz vereinbar?

But this course is apparently controversial even within the AFD leadership: Deputy chairman Jörg Meuthen, who is considered more moderate, voiced disagreement: "I don't see Islam as a mere political ideology, but as a religion, too." People shall be allowed to live according to their religious convictions. "Freedom of religion is part of the Grundgesetz [German constitution]." But he added: "It cannot be overlooked that there is no other religion that has such a strong political focus, or articulates such strong ambitions for the submission of people with different beliefs".

Jörg Meuthen: AfD-Chef widerspricht hartem Anti-Islam-Kurs - DIE WELT


The AFD was founded in 2013 by the libertarian, eurosceptic professor of economics, Bernd Lucke. In the 2013 general election, it narrowly failed to enter the Federal Parliament with 4.7% of the votes (5.0% are required). Last summer, Lucke lost the election for party chairmanship to Frauke Petry, who was considered a prime figure of the party's national-conservative wing. Subsequently, many libertarian-minded people left the party.

The AFD, which is now generally considered a "right-wing populist" party, has won 7.0% in the election to the European Parliament in 2014, and entered 7 German state parliaments with results between 5.5% and 15.1% of the votes -- but its biggest success was the state election in the Eastern state of Saxony-Anhalt, where it become party #2 with 24.3% of the votes.

Observers state that Merkel's effort of shifting her center-right CDU further to the left, so much that many conservative-minded former supporters no longer identify with that party, has opened the doors for the establishment of a party to the right of the CDU. The recent refugee situation has further provided the AFD with an important topic to capitalize on, as no other party present in the parliament opposed Merkel's policies.

This is a novelty in the German party spectrum: Ever since 1961, no party on the right-wing was ever successful, next to Merkel's CDU.

In the meantime, polling results for Merkel's CDU are pretty bad: The party is polled at between 31.5% and 33% of the votes. Between the 2013 election and summer 2015, it had been steadily polled at around 40%.

The AFD is polled at between 10.5% and 13% of the votes on national level.

Sonntagsfrage ? Wahlumfragen zur Bundestagswahl (Wahlumfrage, Umfragen)

OK...I see no issues with any of that. It is their country and they can do what they want there.
 

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Well, before the AFD rose, there was almost constantly a (merely mathematical) majority for SPD/Greens/Left Party for almost a decade, after 2005.
currently (and very theoretically) at 44 pct

Likewise, CDU/CSU and AFD are, mathematically, not too far from a majority.
45 pct.

Nothing to form a government on in either case. Leaves out the FDP of course, also in both cases.

What's apparently missing is the political will for such clear-cut left-wing or right-wing coalitions (and yeah, as long as Merkel is still at the head of the CDU, she can't cooperate with the AFD, much like Schröder could never have cooperated with the Left Party, as their chancellorships were the very reason for the rise of the respective parties).
The trouble with political landscapes that have become so fractured lies in opportunism largely determining political positioning. As such Merkel could now bow out overnight and nothing would improve, cerainly not rapidly.

One can gripe (as I often do) over the system in the UK or the US, but at least it gets you a government that most often doesn't have to compromise with any required party.
 

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currently (and very theoretically) at 44 pct

45 pct.

Nothing to form a government on in either case. Leaves out the FDP of course, also in both cases.

Keep in mind that 50%+ of the seats are required for a majority, not of the votes. (You have to substract all votes for parties below 5.0%!)

Many German governments had less than 50% of the votes. Even Merkel's CDU/CSU was, IIRC, only three seats short of a majority on their own in 2013, at 41.5% of the votes.

As a rule of thumb: A coalition just needs more votes than all other parties in the parliament combined.


The trouble with political landscapes that have become so fractured lies in opportunism largely determining political positioning. As such Merkel could now bow out overnight and nothing would improve, cerainly not rapidly.

One can gripe (as I often do) over the system in the UK or the US, but at least it gets you a government that most often doesn't have to compromise with any required party.

Agreed.
 

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Keep in mind that 50%+ of the seats are required for a majority, not of the votes. (You have to substract all votes for parties below 5.0%!)

Many German governments had less than 50% of the votes. Even Merkel's CDU/CSU was, IIRC, only three seats short of a majority on their own in 2013, at 41.5% of the votes.

As a rule of thumb: A coalition just needs more votes than all other parties in the parliament combined.
Indeed.:thumbs:

Nevertheless in the current poll the percentage that falls under the 5 pct hurdle lies at 4 pct (in total).

Not likely to be of importance by way of "sway" in the current constellation.
 

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Indeed.:thumbs:

Nevertheless in the current poll the percentage that falls under the 5 pct hurdle lies at 4 pct (in total).

Not likely to be of importance by way of "sway" in the current constellation.

Yes. A CDU/CSU and AFD coalition would need backup by the FDP (not that such a coalition is likely in 2017 anyway).

Maybe we'll get the first minority government soon?
 

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OK...I see no issues with any of that. It is their country and they can do what they want there.

Yeah, when it's just another conservative party, I see no problem (although it's unlikely I'd vote for them) ... such a thing is just to be expected to happen, when the party on the right-wing that previously attracted these voters moves into the center.

The only problem I see is when such a new party attracts radical people who oppose the constitution ("the system"). People, who would abandon the free system if given the chance. It's one thing to have a party in power you don't like, but quite another not being able to diselect them again. You can see how such a thing happened/is happening in Hungary, Poland and Turkey, and I don't want it to happen in Germany too.

In the AFD, there seem to be some people I'm not sure they really support our constitutional order.
 

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Yeah, when it's just another conservative party, I see no problem (although it's unlikely I'd vote for them) ... such a thing is just to be expected to happen, when the party on the right-wing that previously attracted these voters moves into the center.

The only problem I see is when such a new party attracts radical people who oppose the constitution ("the system"). People, who would abandon the free system if given the chance. It's one thing to have a party in power you don't like, but quite another not being able to diselect them again. You can see how such a thing happened/is happening in Hungary, Poland and Turkey, and I don't want it to happen in Germany too.

In the AFD, there seem to be some people I'm not sure they really support our constitutional order.

Yes, truly that is how it starts.

They use the protections afforded them under a constitution, but when in power, that same constitution is the first thing they dispose of because it also give their opponents the power to call them out too.

The same thing is happening here in the USA. Not with this current election year, but in the underlying Fascism that is driving some that use the liberal left banner.

Anyone with eyes can clearly see if they had their way 100%, they would be complete Fascist dictators and burn the constitution as their first act.

but...those kinds of people have been on the fringes of all societies since the beginning. They feed on the anger of the masses, and right now there is plenty of that anger to go around, regardless of what side you choose. That is how Black Lives Matter, the radical left, and Donald Trump are ALL rising to power, but there is only room for ONE at the top.

Who shall it be?
 

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Yes, truly that is how it starts.

They use the protections afforded them under a constitution, but when in power, that same constitution is the first thing they dispose of because it also give their opponents the power to call them out too.

The same thing is happening here in the USA. Not with this current election year, but in the underlying Fascism that is driving some that use the liberal left banner.

Anyone with eyes can clearly see if they had their way 100%, they would be complete Fascist dictators and burn the constitution as their first act.

but...those kinds of people have been on the fringes of all societies since the beginning. They feed on the anger of the masses, and right now there is plenty of that anger to go around, regardless of what side you choose. That is how Black Lives Matter, the radical left, and Donald Trump are ALL rising to power, but there is only room for ONE at the top.

Who shall it be?

I don't want to comment on the situation in America, but sure is, such radical people exist on both sides of the spectrum.

In Germany, we have the socialist Left Party on the far-left (it has won 8.6% of the votes in the last general election), and while quite a few of their politicians have proven they can do responsible work as junior coalition partners in state governments, I'm not very comfortable with the more radical members of this party. I don't trust them.

My opinion of the AFD on the right-wing is similar. Many in this party are probably just decent conservatives, but I don't trust their shriller members. Some of them appear just very angry.

I'd much rather vote for a party I disagree with on many topics, but which 100% supports the constitutional order, than voting for a party I may agree with on many points, which would damage this order.
 
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RetiredNSmilin

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I don't want to comment on the situation in America, but sure is, such radical people exist on both sides of the spectrum.

In Germany, we have the socialist Left Party on the far-left (it has won 8.6% of the votes in the last general election), and while quite a few of their politicians have proven they can do responsible work as junior coalition partners in state governments, I'm not very comfortable with the more radical members of this party. I don't trust them.

My opinion of the AFD on the right-wing is similar. Many in this party are probably just decent conservatives, but I don't trust their shriller members. Some of them appear just very angry.

I'd much rather vote for a party I disagree with on many topics, but which 100% supports the constitutional order, than voting for a party I may agree with on many points, which would damage this order.

Absolutely. There are some, even though you agree with them in principle, do see to be a bit more "zealous" than most.

Here in America us conservatives have this guy called Alex Jones. While I agree with his views, his shrill and off-the-rail behaviors make me facepalm more than a few times.
 

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Where I'm basically d'accord with your assessments, which case of armed force in defence of EU borders are you referring to?

So far the most coercive weapons used have been water-canons, truncheons, teargas and rubber bullets in a variety of locations from Greece, Hungary or Macedonia to Austria or France. In each case the circumstances seem to have been different, but the escalation was evident as nerves frayed. How this will develop going onward is not quite clear, as the boarder are now closed with razor wire and patrolled much more vigorously so that the terrestrial flow of refugees has subsided and the drowning ones in the Southern ocean are less dramatic than hoards on the Bahnhofsplatz in München.
 

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SNIP...and burn the constitution as their first act.

but...those kinds of people <radicals> have been on the fringes of all societies since the beginning. They feed on the anger of the masses, and right now there is plenty of that anger to go around, regardless of what side you choose. That is how Black Lives Matter, the radical left, and Donald Trump are ALL rising to power, but there is only room for ONE at the top.

Who shall it be?
Why is Trump radical? Sidenote: Do you think Obama is radical for not facilitating the execution of illegal immigration law?
 
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Chagos

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So far the most coercive weapons used have been water-canons, truncheons, teargas and rubber bullets in a variety of locations from Greece, Hungary or Macedonia to Austria or France. In each case the circumstances seem to have been different, but the escalation was evident as nerves frayed. How this will develop going onward is not quite clear, as the boarder are now closed with razor wire and patrolled much more vigorously so that the terrestrial flow of refugees has subsided and the drowning ones in the Southern ocean are less dramatic than hoards on the Bahnhofsplatz in München.
I don't seem to be able to pull up much on EU border defence by armed force having taken place in any of the locations you describe. With the notable exception of Macedonia where violence got pretty rampant. But Macedonia is not EU.

France's borders to the non-EU outside world are hardly under pressure so it pays to not conflate the Calais issue with EU border defence.

That said the blocking of the Balkan route indeed takes some of the heat off Germany for now and the Turkey deal, far from actually being installed completely or lastingly, adds to the perceived relief for now.

FOR NOW.

What it all boils down and back to is pushing the issue outwards again. To those countries that provide the EU outer borders most under pressure, notably Greece, Italy and Spain.

And yes, I get to see washed up bodies down here, fortunately more often on the news than IRL, the average German doesn't.

There's a lot of hipocrisy raging but it rages thruout the EU, alone in leaving the frontline states in the lurch.
 
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