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Georgia’s repulsive new election law is Exhibit A in the GOP’s war on voting rights

You have to be a citizen to vote legally. You can only legally vote once per election. Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to require proof of citizenship and identity in order to vote. And getting ID for the small group of people who don't have one is exactly how the problem should be handled. Not only will it allow them to vote, but it will make their lives easier in many different ways.

as far as I can see, there is absolutely no reason, except fraud, as to why anyone would believe it is a good thing to allow people to vote without ID.
 
With all due respect, the new laws in Georgia are not unlike the election laws in Canada.
So where is 'voter suppression' nonsense coming from?
It could be true that "black community" are being fed misinformation about the electoral law and that might have electoral consequences. But it seems the answer isn't to humor such misinformation, but to --- resist- the misinformation
I didn't comment on the laws themselves, my opinion is irrelevant. My post was about the perception within the Black community and whether that might drive them to the polls in greater numbers. I do think that, in their eagerness to placate GOP voters who feel the election was stolen, they miscalculated the reaction from the Black community.
 
I didn't comment on the laws themselves, my opinion is irrelevant. My post was about the perception within the Black community and whether that might drive them to the polls in greater numbers. I do think that, in their eagerness to placate GOP voters who feel the election was stolen, they miscalculated the reaction from the Black community.
Probably miscalculated the impact on their own voters for that matter. Before 2020, the GOP was the party making hay on absentee voting and mail in voting generally and early in person voting by older voters in the main. Maybe they think Donnie Rotten killed off enough older folks with his inane, misguided, incompetent and ineffective federal Covid response that the older voting block which in the main votes GOP simply does not matter enough to them any longer.
 
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It's 1. problems. 2. solutions. NOT solutions for non-existent and/or imaginary problems,, particular when, in the entire 250 years of voting history NOT ONE ****NG ELECTON HAS EVER BEEN STOLEN.
So based on the outstanding track record of the old secure system, you want to dismantle it and pretend that nothing has changed.
 
We're not giving them money to vote on way or the other, we are helping people endure the hardship of standing in line for hours, surely you can grasp the difference.
Laws against electioneering at polling places are in effect in every state. It's not some Republican conspiracy.

And again, the real issue isn't not being allowed to give water to people in long lines; it's why are the lines so long in the first place.
 
The idea behind prohibiting food and drink at the polls (by states across the country) was due to the real problem of bribery at the polls.
It has nothing to do with 'voter suppression.' Georgia law allows campaign officials to hand out water, or unattended vending machines to hand out water.
That's just laughable.
 
Republicans NEVER take people's voting rights away. But Democrats are always wanting everyone to vote, the dead, the moved, the illegals, anyone who can get a ballot. It's not taking voting rights away by continuing the very same thing we have done for hundreds of years.
The first part of your sentence is correct. It has always been the goal of democrats that all people use their right to vote. There has always been encouragement on the part of democrats to encourage people of all races and all walks of life to participate in their right to choose their leaders. What you have wrong is that democrats have never encouraged illegal voting. That's a lie to claim they have. Republicans have been historically infamous as obstructionists for free elections and made it as difficult as possible for minorities to vote. In the last 50 years there's been 1.5 million people died from gun shooting. In the last 50 years there's been 1,500 proven voter fraud out of 3 billion votes cast. That's a fact, go run and fact-check me if you don't believe it.
 
Chris Cillizza writes, "Donald Trump's presidency is now behind us. But the debate over how bad a president he was has only just begun.

"In 2019, Siena College released its latest rankings, the result of the combined views of 159 presidential scholars who rated each of the presidents on 20 different aspects of the job. (The categories range from "integrity" to "willing to take risks" to "luck.") In those rankings, Trump placed third to last -- behind only James Buchanan and Andrew Johnson.

"The other major recent study of best (and worst) presidents came in 2018 from Brandon Rottinghaus from the University of Houston and Justin S. Vaughn of Boise State University. (Known as the "Presidents & Executive Politics Presidential Greatness Survey," this one polled 170 members of the American Political Science Association.)

"Trump ranked dead last in this survey, trailing Buchanan, William Henry Harrison, Franklin Pierce and Johnson, respectively. Broken out by the relative ideology of the panel, Trump fared little better. Among self-identified conservatives, Trump was ranked as the 40th best president. (Buchanan was conservatives' choice as worst president.) Among moderates and liberals in the survey, Trump was ranked dead last."

Officially, I am a conservative Independent, according to the state of California. True conservatives are not represented by a political party. I was a Republican until Trump drove me out, much like many other conservatives.

It is far too early to decide how history will view the Trump Presidency. However, the experts have given us a clue.

We already know there will be no response on the issue from Trump's cult, although I am not ruling out a focus on me from one or two.
 
I got a better idea. You cite the law and tells us where the poster is wrong.
I have in a couple of posts. I'd do it for yours too, except few of them have been about the election law.

Take #108. I realize that an anti-Trump rant is considered appropriate for all occasions in some circles, but there's nothing in the entire post about either Georgia or election law.

Besides if you want to complain about the law, look it up yourself. I'm not going to do all the work for you. The supply of posters repeating social media nonsense about this law far exceeds the amount of time I have available to correct their misconceptions.
 
You cite the law and tells us where the poster is wrong.
I have in a couple of posts.

Then it is simply a matter of cutting and pasting.

But, you didn't do that. Instead, you changed the subject. And, of course, like all of Trump's followers, you ignored the reality of my earlier post. There is a direct connection between Trump's lies about the election and Georgia's restrictive voting laws. I was only pointing out how bad Trump was as a President.

Which, of course, is why you and the rest of Trump's cult have avoided the issue.

We already know there will be no response on the issue from Trump's cult.

Now how did I know that?
 
Then it is simply a matter of cutting and pasting.

But, you didn't do that. Instead, you changed the subject. And, of course, like all of Trump's followers, you ignored the reality of my earlier post. There is a direct connection between Trump's lies about the election and Georgia's restrictive voting laws. I was only pointing out how bad Trump was as a President.
Come up with a rational objection to the law and I'll come up with a rational response. If all you have is TDS, we're done.
 
Meanwhile, in the real world, Georgia election reform:

1. Increases the opportunities for all Georgians to vote as it increases the time for early voting.

2. Places political accountability in the electoral process. So the electorate can now hold people responsible for mis-management that results in five hour lines at the polls.

3. Replaces subjective standards of voter eligibility questions with an objective one, thus increasing fairness and transparency to all.

4. Clarified rules against politicking at the polls.
1. Um, only in a runoff.
2. No, it doesn't. The electorate has no say. Literally.
3. No, again, not really when you read the actual law.
4. The rules were quite clear to begin with and had been for the previous ten years.
 
1. Um, only in a runoff.
2. No, it doesn't. The electorate has no say. Literally.
3. No, again, not really when you read the actual law.
4. The rules were quite clear to begin with and had been for the previous ten years.
Good start. How about citations to the law itself to back it up?
 
Georgia’s repulsive new election law is Exhibit A in the GOP’s war on voting rights

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Georgia police arresting State Rep. Park Cannon for protesting the state's new JIm Crow voting laws.




This is just despicable, in your face racism by the Georgia Republican Party.

They're going back to 1950 even if they have to destroy democracy to do so.
Same tiring race card.
 
Come up with a rational objection to the law and I'll come up with a rational response. If all you have is TDS, we're done.

You got confused. This isn't about me. It's about the poster who was telling you how it is. Remember?

You cite the law and tells us where the poster is wrong.
 
Same tiring race card.
Long on hysteria, snark and insults, short on rational argument.

Reposting a propaganda cartoon is not debate. Personal attacks are not debate. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist is not debate.

The usual.
 
Long on hysteria, snark and insults, short on rational argument.

Reposting a propaganda cartoon is not debate. Personal attacks are not debate. Calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist is not debate.

The usual.
The allegation is that blacks are incapable of attaining appropriate ID to vote. Requiring ID as proof is somehow causing voter suppression against blacks. Same tired story.
 
So based on the outstanding track record of the old secure system, you want to dismantle it and pretend that nothing has changed.

No. Fix the problems. But don't create solutions for non-existent problems.

For example; Perceived Problem. Hanging chads, an actual problem in one region. Solution: redesign paper ballots.

Perceived Problem. Dems stealing the election. This is unreality. Nothing to fix.

Simple, really.
 
Someone tell me, what are Republicans afraid of?

There will be no answer. Republicans on this forum do not discuss what Republicans are doing. They are only concerned about what Democrats are doing.

Which explains why they are losers. They have to be pretty bad to lose the House, Senate, and Presidency all within a span of four years. The way they are going their dogcatcher candidate will lose.

Losing power. The Repubs are all about power...and control. I think it's possibly anal retentive behavior. See:

Net: Also known as being anal retentive, an anal personality is thought of as someone with an extreme need to control their environment. ... The anal personality is generally perceived as anxious and unable to manage the impulse to control situations. Their behavior goes beyond being helpful.
 
No. Fix the problems. But don't create solutions for non-existent problems.

For example; Perceived Problem. Hanging chads, an actual problem in one region. Solution: redesign paper ballots.

Perceived Problem. Dems stealing the election. This is unreality. Nothing to fix.

Simple, really.
Let me make it clear: I've never said the Democrats stole the election. The issue is that with no checks on citizenship when registering, no ID checks when voting, indiscriminate mailing of ballots, election rules changed at the last minute, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that things aren't as secure as they should be. The Democrats may not have rigged the election in 2020, but the system is wide open to be rigged.

Just saying it's unreality is not going to fix the problem.

It's interesting that when the Democrats thought Trump had rigged the 2016 election with Russian interference, there was a massive investigation that spent millions of dollars and hundreds of subpoenas with two years of 24/7 coverage. Yet when the Republicans complain about the 2020 election the reaction is that it's an unmentionable subject that gets you banned from Twitter.
 
Let me make it clear: I've never said the Democrats stole the election. The issue is that with no checks on citizenship when registering, no ID checks when voting, indiscriminate mailing of ballots, election rules changed at the last minute, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that things aren't as secure as they should be. The Democrats may not have rigged the election in 2020, but the system is wide open to be rigged.

Just saying it's unreality is not going to fix the problem.

It's interesting that when the Democrats thought Trump had rigged the 2016 election with Russian interference, there was a massive investigation that spent millions of dollars and hundreds of subpoenas with two years of 24/7 coverage. Yet when the Republicans complain about the 2020 election the reaction is that it's an unmentionable subject that gets you banned from Twitter.

ID checking is fine at the registration step.

It is not necessary at the time the ballot is cast, once the ballot is mailed to the verified recipient or at the ballot box when a voter presents registration card that was mailed to the pre-verified recipient.

IF the individual does not have an ID, and cannot obtain one ( missing birth cert, etc , is less than ambulatory, etc ) it is the obligation of the state to provide a swift means of providing eligibility with as few hurdles as possible. The point being that with republican controlled regions, they appear to be intentionally putting as many hurdles in front of voter as possible, which presents a greater burden to those individuals who have difficulty obtaining ID, who often tend to be poor, minorities, elderly, etc.

Herein lies the debate.

As for Trump, in my view, many in the media, including myself, were suspecting that Trump was inadvertently helping Russians, for which there is much evidence to that, but 'inadvertantly' isn't sufficient to warrant prosecution. Most, from where I'm sitting, viewed his obstruction and the 'why' for that obstruction, as the key issue. On that issue, Trump was most certainly not exonerated and Mueller so stated this So, to assert that dems were accusing Trump of 'rigging the election by conspiring with Russians' is a strawman (that repubs set up because they know they can easily shoot it down), because the key personnel who matter, ,the accusatory body, i.e., the congress and the DOJ, never accused Trump of any such thing, formally ( though some may have, rhetorically). Opinions given in the media really are of no legal consequence.

Moreover, and let's get one fact straight here, the 2 year investigation was not a 'democrat' effort, the leading figures in the DOJ who called, and led, the investigation, were republicans, though that, in and of itself, was not, nor should not be, a determining nor relevant fact. The only relevant fact was this: 'Was there sufficient predication to warrant the establishment of the investigation, and later the elevation of the investigation by Special Counsel?''. The IG report, to my knowledge, has determined that point in the affirmative, that there was sufficient predication to warrant the investigation ( though there were issues in the administration of it ) and that is the only relevant point.

See, there are two (mainly, but three) potential of which all constitution successful outcomes of any investigation: 1. Determine whether there is foul play and refer to DOJ for prosecution. Or, 2. Clear the air of the suspicions upon which the investigation was predicated. Or, 3. A combination of #1 & #2. I believe #3 was the final outcome. Note that, because of the OLC policy, Mueller refrained from an actual criminal referral (on the obstruction point), and limited the report to creating an outline of evidence for possible indictments or impeachments by the appropriate agencies.

Any of the three outcomes of the investigation denote a successful investigation. The Strawman that republicans continually make is that, given that Trump was exonerated on 'conspiracy' issue, they assert that the entire effort was a boondoggle. But, if that were true, then all investigations that do not indict are boondoggles. But, see, that is not the case, because one cannot know, at the outset, what an outcome will be, hence the need for the investigation in the first place, to either indict or clear the air, or a combination of both if there are several issues under suspicion. This does not mean investigations are conducted willy nilly, there must be sufficient grounds, i.e., predication to warrant an investigation. Once that fact is established, then any of the three outcomes denote a successful investigation. A boondoggle would be one that was began, millions spent, and later abandoned because it was determined there wasn't sufficient predication or that the so-called predication, upon later scrutiny, wasn't, in fact, sufficient.
 
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ID checking is fine at the registration step.

It is not necessary at the time the ballot is cast, once the ballot is mailed to the verified recipient or at the ballot box when a voter presents registration card that was mailed to the pre-verified recipient.
I don't see any significant issue in requiring ID throughout, but at least we're going in the right direction.

IF the individual does not have an ID, and cannot obtain one ( missing birth cert, etc , is less than ambulatory, etc ) it is the obligation of the state to provide a swift means of providing eligibility with as few hurdles as possible. The point being that with republican controlled regions, they appear to be intentionally putting as many hurdles in front of voter as possible, which presents a greater burden to those individuals who have difficulty obtaining ID, who often tend to be poor, minorities, elderly, etc.

I agree. And for the few who do not have ID, every effort should be made to get them one, not just for voting, but so they can do the many things in modern life that require ID. The issue should be dealt with, not used as an excuse to undermine election security.

As for Trump, in my view, many in the media, including myself, were suspecting that Trump was inadvertently helping Russians, .......

Thanks for the interesting and detailed analysis of the Mueller report, but it's a bit more than I was looking for. I didn't intend to drift the thread into a rehash of the Mueller investigation.

My point was that when the Democrats claimed the 2016 election was rigged, there was a thorough investigation and it was discussed endlessly. When the Republicans claimed the 2020 election was rigged, it's considered a breach of reality and gets you banned from social media.
 
I don't see any significant issue in requiring ID throughout, but at least we're going in the right direction.



I agree. And for the few who do not have ID, every effort should be made to get them one, not just for voting, but so they can do the many things in modern life that require ID. \

But that is the point,republicans are not making 'every effort' to get them one, they are making every effort to make it as difficult as possible to vote.
 
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