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George W. Bush is in denial of reality,

SMIRKnCHIMP

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George W. Bush is in denial of reality, in Iraq and elsewhere. But what of America itself?

More particularly, what of the majority of Americans who re-elected him?

They had the right to their democratic choice. Still, what sort of nation rewards a leader who misled it into war, spawned worldwide anger, eroded America's moral authority, turned the Iraqi occupation into a showcase for American ineptitude, and increased terrorism?

The same sort that also:

* Accepts the death of 100,000 Iraqis as unavoidable road kill by a rampaging giant avenging its 3,000 dead on 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with that terrorist atrocity. * Dismisses the missing weapons of mass destruction, the raison d'être for the war, as irrelevant. * Tolerates breaches of the rule of law at home while preaching democracy abroad.

Of course, nearly half the American electorate is as upset as the rest of the world, if not more so, and has fallen into shell-shocked silence since Nov. 2. Bush promised to reach out to them. But, as usual, his words and deeds never did connect.

Donald Rumsfeld stays on. Colin Powell goes out. Condoleezza Rice gets a promotion. So does Alberto Gonzales, the White House consigliere who justified torture. All will dance to the drumbeat of Dick Cheney's next war, perhaps on Iran.

Tax cuts are to continue, worsening the record deficit (already at 5 per cent of the GDP).

Social security is to be privatized, in the name of fixing it.

Medicare is to stay private, leaving 45 million citizens uncovered.

Democracy, too, is being handed over to corporate interests and lobbies.

 

mikeey

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Smirk i agree with u, can u keep me right on this.

Rumsfeld

Deutshchland

concentration camp

Cuba.

America
Does that ring a bell my good friend

regards mikeey
 

Mancunian

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Smirk i agree with u, can u keep me right on this.

Rumsfeld

Deutshchland

concentration camp

Cuba.

America
Does that ring a bell my good friend

regards mikeey
Mikeey, can you decrypt for me please?

SMIRKnCHIMP, can't find fault with your post. ;) We need the good people of America to teach those who have their eyes and ears closed.
 

cnredd

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Mancunian said:
SMIRKnCHIMP, can't find fault with your post. ;) We need the good people of America to teach those who have their eyes and ears closed.
You can't find fault because you're not looking...

The IBC estimates that between 14,181 and 16,312 Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war—about half of them since the battlefield phase of the war ended last May. The group also notes that these figures are probably on the low side, since some deaths must have taken place outside the media's purview.

So, let's call it 15,000 or—allowing for deaths that the press didn't report—20,000 or 25,000, maybe 30,000 Iraqi civilians killed in a pre-emptive war waged (according to the latest rationale) on their behalf. That's a number more solidly rooted in reality than the Hopkins figure—and, given that fact, no less shocking.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887/

Whose eyes and ears are closed now?
 

Mancunian

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Whooaa there! I was referring to the fact that so many Americans take the rhetoric that comes out of the White House at face value. Never trust what a politician tells you whichever way they lean!! OK, I concede that I didn’t double-check smirknchimp’s figues but his general opinion is one I can sympathise with.

As I’ve said in earlier posts, I do not hate Bush but it astounds me that your current president has led you into a war on a false pretext and over half the country doesn’t seem to mind.

cnredd said:
Whose eyes and ears are closed now?
I wasn’t actually referring to you personally anyway cnredd .... or are you telling me I am deaf and blind? :lol:
 

cnredd

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Mancunian said:
Whooaa there! I was referring to the fact that so many Americans take the rhetoric that comes out of the White House at face value. Never trust what a politician tells you whichever way they lean!! OK, I concede that I didn’t double-check smirknchimp’s figues but his general opinion is one I can sympathise with.
Alot of people feel the same way about Dan Rather...What happened then?

Mancunian said:
As I’ve said in earlier posts, I do not hate Bush but it astounds me that your current president has led you into a war on a false pretext and over half the country doesn’t seem to mind.[/QOUTE] No false pretense...many reasons correct...one wrong...The same one the previous administration said...and the UN...and the UK...and Russia...accusations of being done on purpose all conspiracy theories...none proven.


I wasn’t actually referring to you personally anyway cnredd .... or are you telling me I am deaf and blind? :lol:
"Guilt by association"...We need the good people of America to teach those who have their eyes and ears closed...If you believe the original post to this thread is correct, and I disagree with it, then you are accusing me of having "my eyes and ears closed".
 

Mancunian

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No false pretense...many reasons correct...one wrong...The same one the previous administration said...and the UN...and the UK...and Russia...accusations of being done on purpose all conspiracy theories...none proven.
The leaders of both our countries told us that Saddam’s regime posed an imminent threat to our country, either had or were capable of manufacturing WMD and had direct links to Al Qaeda. These were the reasons we went to war and we are still waiting for the evidence. We were therefore duped. If there were other reasons for going to war, why didn’t they tell us before invading?
 

cnredd

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Mancunian said:
The leaders of both our countries told us that Saddam’s regime posed an imminent threat to our country, either had or were capable of manufacturing WMD and had direct links to Al Qaeda. These were the reasons we went to war and we are still waiting for the evidence. We were therefore duped. If there were other reasons for going to war, why didn’t they tell us before invading?
And here's what you posted earlier...

As I’ve said in earlier posts, I do not hate Bush but it astounds me that your current president has led you into a war on a false pretext and over half the country doesn’t seem to mind.

I don't agree that that is a "false pretext"...I agree we were duped...but not by Bush...by Saddam...UN was duped...Clinton was duped...Russia was duped...UK was duped...

And it's still uncertain what happened to the WMD he was PROVEN to have in 1998...The UN had SEEN them and they were documented...That's hy they were "thown out"...He says he destroyed them, but the UN resolution stated he had to prove he did...The onus was on him, not the inspectors. There were four years in between inspections for Saddam to do as he pleased with them. If he did destroy them and not provide proof, he has to be one dumb dictator, wouldn't ya think? He probably didn't think he needed to prove anything, because the UN buckled to him for 10 years...what made Saddam think the same thing wouldn't happen again?

He never proved it....Were they moved to Syria or Iran?...Were they sold on the black market?...Jury's still out...
 

mikeey

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Mancunian Rumsfeld his kin fought against G B in the first world war,

dont u see my good friend where Bush got the idea for the concentration camp in Cuba,if all countrys the USA that was a shock.

any i hope the Celts meet u guys in champions cup next year that would be good haha.

kind regards to U m8

mikeey
 

SMIRKnCHIMP

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cnredd said:
You can't find fault because you're not looking...

The IBC estimates that between 14,181 and 16,312 Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the war—about half of them since the battlefield phase of the war ended last May. The group also notes that these figures are probably on the low side, since some deaths must have taken place outside the media's purview.

So, let's call it 15,000 or—allowing for deaths that the press didn't report—20,000 or 25,000, maybe 30,000 Iraqi civilians killed in a pre-emptive war waged (according to the latest rationale) on their behalf. That's a number more solidly rooted in reality than the Hopkins figure—and, given that fact, no less shocking.


http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887/

Whose eyes and ears are closed now?

A Conservative Estimate of the women and children slaughtered in IRAQ in the name of love, freedom and democracy.


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
 

Stinger

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Mancunian said:
The leaders of both our countries told us that Saddam’s regime posed an imminent threat to our country
No they did not. They said he must be stopped else and before he became an imminent threat. They were quite clear in that the notion that anyone in the Bush administration claimed Saddam was an imminent threat is a falicy


, either had or were capable of manufacturing WMD
He did.

and had direct links to Al Qaeda.
He did.

These were the reasons we went to war and we are still waiting for the evidence.
What are you waiting for, the Kay report, the Duelfer report, the 9/11 commission report, the Senate report are all available to you.


We were therefore duped.
Where were you duped?


If there were other reasons for going to war, why didn’t they tell us before invading?
There were and they did.
 

cnredd

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SMIRKnCHIMP said:

A Conservative Estimate of the women and children slaughtered in IRAQ in the name of love, freedom and democracy.


http://www.iraqbodycount.net/
This is the info from the source you provided...

Min=23456 Max=26559

And this is part of the original post that you stole...

Accepts the death of 100,000 Iraqis as unavoidable road kill by a rampaging giant avenging its 3,000 dead on 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with that terrorist atrocity

So congrats...you just proved your original post has faulty facts...

Why should anyone believe anything you post when you find errors in it yourself?
 

SMIRKnCHIMP

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cnredd said:
This is the info from the source you provided...

Min=23456 Max=26559

And this is part of the original post that you stole...

Accepts the death of 100,000 Iraqis as unavoidable road kill by a rampaging giant avenging its 3,000 dead on 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with that terrorist atrocity

So congrats...you just proved your original post has faulty facts...

Why should anyone believe anything you post when you find errors in it yourself?




http://www.awitness.org/journal/real_iraq_war.html

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/27/2313/1024/DeadChildDust.jpg[/COLOR]
 

SMIRKnCHIMP

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cnredd said:
This is the info from the source you provided...

Min=23456 Max=26559

And this is part of the original post that you stole...

Accepts the death of 100,000 Iraqis as unavoidable road kill by a rampaging giant avenging its 3,000 dead on 9/11, even though Iraq had nothing to do with that terrorist atrocity

So congrats...you just proved your original post has faulty facts...

Why should anyone believe anything you post when you find errors in it yourself?
I posted the American estimation.........the 100,000 figure is probally more accurate.......either way I prove you WRONG.......AGAIN....better luck next time SON!


http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.awitness.org/bloody/iraq/deadkid.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.awitness.org/journal/real_iraq_war.html&h=148&w=200&sz=5&tbnid=6O24PgC3rAAJ:&tbnh=73&tbnw=99&hl=en&start=2&prev=/images%3Fq%3Diraqi%2Bchildren%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ages?q=iraqi+children&svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&sa=G

http://photos1.blogger.com/img/27/2313/1024/DeadChildDust.jpg
 

Billo_Really

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Originally posted by cnredd:
You can't find fault because you're not looking...
Introspection is truly a gift.
 

Mancunian

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Stinger said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mancunian
The leaders of both our countries told us that Saddam’s regime posed an imminent threat to our country


No they did not. They said he must be stopped else and before he became an imminent threat. They were quite clear in that the notion that anyone in the Bush administration claimed Saddam was an imminent threat is a falicy



Quote:
, either had or were capable of manufacturing WMD


He did.


Quote:
and had direct links to Al Qaeda.


He did.


Quote:
These were the reasons we went to war and we are still waiting for the evidence.



What are you waiting for, the Kay report, the Duelfer report, the 9/11 commission report, the Senate report are all available to you.



Quote:
We were therefore duped.


Where were you duped?



Quote:
If there were other reasons for going to war, why didn’t they tell us before invading?


There were and they did.
http://www.alternet.org/story/16274/
It’s an old page but it’s still relevant.

In addition to the link, we in the UK were told how Saddam could launch an attack in 45 mins. How imminent is 45 mins?

What other reasons were you given for going to war before it started?
 
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