George Floyd was no saint

[brianpatrick]

Shame you can't accept that you pick terrible heroes. Michael Brown had literally robbed and assaulted a store clerk right before the incident (all on video) and then fought with the officer. The "hands up don't shoot" was proven to be false. George Floyd held a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach.

Now, for your statement to hold any validity you'd have to be saying this is the standard for Black people. Is that what you're saying brian? This is what you think of Black people?

I’m sure if you look even a little bit you can find some other examples of people shot/murdered who were not Michael Brown. Lots and lots and lots. Whether they committed a crime or not, it’s not a cops job to decide innocence or guilt. There are mentally ill people everywhere, addicts too, but none of them deserve the death penalty.

It is the job of law enforcement to handle potentially violent suspects. That’s what they are paid for. It is not their job to murder them.

Your argument is preposterously cruel and inhumane. I’m glad Trump taught you to just say it out loud though, because now we can keep tabs on you people. It’s like the Jan 6 ding-dings broadcasting the insurrection on Facebook live. Ha ha. Morons.

 

[brianpatrick]

George Floyd was just going about his day stealing from shops, using wet counterfeit bills, and swallowing drugs while having just been released for threatening a handgun abortion on a pregnant woman during a home invasion

Last I heard, those weren’t capital offenses. You think they should be? Maybe we should send out the deathsquads like Duterte did. We could just murder all the suspected criminals and drug addicts and that would be the end of it, yeah?

You should shop Amazon for a good arm band.

 

[Hamish Howl]

George Floyd was a career criminal who died of a drug overdose.

I can believe you, or I can believe two separate coroners.

 

[Fishking]

I’m sure if you look even a little bit you can find some other examples of people shot/murdered who were not Michael Brown. Lots and lots and lots. Whether they committed a crime or not, it’s not a cops job to decide innocence or guilt. There are mentally ill people everywhere, addicts too, but none of them deserve the death penalty.

Sure...you can find examples of police officers doing such against any group out there.

Your argument is preposterously cruel and inhumane. I’m glad Trump taught you to just say it out loud though, because now we can keep tabs on you people. It’s like the Jan 6 ding-dings broadcasting the insurrection on Facebook live. Ha ha. Morons.

My argument isn't an argument, but a factual observation, which is why you have to lean on rhetoric instead of reality.

 

[brianpatrick]

Sure...you can find examples of police officers doing such against any group out there.

My argument isn't an argument, but a factual observation, which is why you have to lean on rhetoric instead of reality.

You had me until “factual observation”. You see what you want to see. We all do to some extent. There are no factual observations. Doesn’t mean there aren’t facts, there are, we just can’t see them.

Here’s an experiment for you:

When some topic comes up you think you know about, react to it as though you don’t know anything about it. Then just look at it. See what happens.

 

[Fishking]

You had me until “factual observation”.

Uhh...that's a straight up lie. At no point did I "have you" in the sense that you agreed with anything I said. That's been clear.

You see what you want to see. We all do to some extent. There are no factual observations. Doesn’t mean there aren’t facts, there are, we just can’t see them.

It's not a matter of seeing what I want to see, but a matter of aggregate data. Yes, there are more issues with policing in Black areas but that's going to happen because violent crime is significantly higher.

Here’s an experiment for you:

When some topic comes up you think you know about, react to it as though you don’t know anything about it. Then just look at it. See what happens.

They've done studies on this. There are problems with policing that I'm not sure how to fix, I do have ideas, but they are not what the media and pop culture make it out to be. Most Black Americans want either to maintain police presence or even increase it.

Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence

It's not so much the volume of interactions Black Americans have with the police that troubles them or differentiates them from other racial groups, but rather the quality of those interactions.

news.gallup.com

This reminds me of the talk about the school voucher program, where people go on about how this is especially bad for minority kids but most Black families want school voucher and school choice.

New Study Shows African American Families Overwhelmingly Want A Choice in Their Children's Public School, Regardless of Geographic Boundaries

/PRNewswire/ -- A new national survey of African American parents reveals strong support for educational options in the Black community, especially for...

www.prnewswire.com

 

[brianpatrick]

Uhh...that's a straight up lie. At no point did I "have you" in the sense that you agreed with anything I said. That's been clear.

It's not a matter of seeing what I want to see, but a matter of aggregate data. Yes, there are more issues with policing in Black areas but that's going to happen because violent crime is significantly higher.

They've done studies on this. There are problems with policing that I'm not sure how to fix, I do have ideas, but they are not what the media and pop culture make it out to be. Most Black Americans want either to maintain police presence or even increase it.

Black Americans Want Police to Retain Local Presence

It's not so much the volume of interactions Black Americans have with the police that troubles them or differentiates them from other racial groups, but rather the quality of those interactions.

news.gallup.com

This reminds me of the talk about the school voucher program, where people go on about how this is especially bad for minority kids but most Black families want school voucher and school choice.

New Study Shows African American Families Overwhelmingly Want A Choice in Their Children's Public School, Regardless of Geographic Boundaries

/PRNewswire/ -- A new national survey of African American parents reveals strong support for educational options in the Black community, especially for...

www.prnewswire.com

No it’s true. Until that point I thought maybe you were going to make a good point.

Aggregate data can tell you a lot about “what” happened, but not much about how or why.

Yes, most black people want to maintain or increase police presence, but what they really want is better policing than they’ve gotten. They want “better”policing. And it’s the same for your school choice article. Did you read the article you linked beyond the headlines? You should do the experiment I gave you and read the whole thing.

Anyway, these black parents want “better” schools. They are for privatizing public education because they’ve been sold something. The idea that this would fix failing school choices in black neighborhoods. And it will do that in the short term and on an individual level, but what it will also do is destroy public education in favor of for-profit k-12 education. I don’t have a dog in that fight really, but it’s pretty obvious how that will turn out. The cost will go up and up, and the services will go down and down over the years. School choice is not what the name says, just like “defund the police” doesn’t mean what you’d like it to.

 

[donhughesmusic]

Ashli Babbitt was a patriot killed for protesting against her government.

Babbit was actively breaking and entering into a government building with a group of people chanting to hang the Vice President, with the gallows they could do it with, with the intent of interrupting the function of our government. If someone breaks into your home chanting to hang your significant other, what are you going to do, offer them biscuits and gravy??

 

[jonny5]

You hear this from conservatives about how George Floyd was no saint. About how he had a criminal record and had drugs in his system when he died. This is said to downplay his death.

I think those who still hold that viewpoint should remember this woman:


From 2004 to 2017, she was in the armed forces. In 2016, she faced criminal charges when she deliberately smashed her SUV into an ex gf of her current bf. In 2018, she purchased a pool servicing business only to face a $71,000 judgement after failing to repay a loan. Later that year, she fell down the Qanon rabbit hole. Following the conclusion of the 2020 election, she tweeted about how the election was stolen from Trump. Then on January 6, she alongside thousands of others marched into the capitol building.

Her name was Ashley Babbit

Some conservatives say that she was a martyr even though she, by entering the capitol, was commiting a crime. Those same people said that George Floyd was no saint as to downplay his death. Sure, Floyd may have had a criminal record but Babbit was no saint either. Why should she be treated any differently than Floyd? Both were killed by cops. If you back the blue, you should hold Babbit with as much contempt that you hold Floyd.

Are you saying we shouldnt hold Babbit with contempt? That she should be treated like a Saint, like Floyd?

 

[donhughesmusic]

Are you saying we shouldnt hold Babbit with contempt? That she should be treated like a Saint, like Floyd?

If you read the whole OP, you would have seen that he is not saying that at all. Look at the bottom of the OP. He is saying that if you back the cops, why do you hold her in higher regard than Floyd? He is not saying to hold Babbit as a saint at all.

 

[Fishking]

No it’s true. Until that point I thought maybe you were going to make a good point.

Yeah...that's why you had to pretend I wanted to say the n-word, right?

Aggregate data can tell you a lot about “what” happened, but not much about how or why.

You can make w/e claims you want but the data is on my side, while rhetoric is on yours. If it was half as bad as what the left makes it out to be the data would be against me.

Yes, most black people want to maintain or increase police presence, but what they really want is better policing than they’ve gotten. They want “better”policing. And it’s the same for your school choice article. Did you read the article you linked beyond the headlines? You should do the experiment I gave you and read the whole thing.

Sure they want better policing. I won't argue against that, but I'm sure that's universal. Again, if it was as bad as what is made out by the left then they wouldn't want this. The fact is, more policing saves, by a lot. But on the subject of better policing, what is your solution?

Anyway, these black parents want “better” schools. They are for privatizing public education because they’ve been sold something. The idea that this would fix failing school choices in black neighborhoods. And it will do that in the short term and on an individual level, but what it will also do is destroy public education in favor of for-profit k-12 education. I don’t have a dog in that fight really, but it’s pretty obvious how that will turn out. The cost will go up and up, and the services will go down and down over the years. School choice is not what the name says, just like “defund the police” doesn’t mean what you’d like it to.

I'm all for public education getting destroyed. It's been a horrendous failure, despite the fact that we are in the top among the world in spending per student.

 

[Galactic Spin]

I know that, when I see a brutal murder on video, I spend the next 2 years only talking about how the victim was "no saint".

I mean... that's what all well-adjusted, normal adults do, right?

 

[brianpatrick]

Yeah...that's why you had to pretend I wanted to say the n-word, right?

You can make w/e claims you want but the data is on my side, while rhetoric is on yours. If it was half as bad as what the left makes it out to be the data would be against me.

Sure they want better policing. I won't argue against that, but I'm sure that's universal. Again, if it was as bad as what is made out by the left then they wouldn't want this. The fact is, more policing saves, by a lot. But on the subject of better policing, what is your solution?

I'm all for public education getting destroyed. It's been a horrendous failure, despite the fact that we are in the top among the world in spending per student.

The data is on your side that black people want better policing and schools. It just doesn’t mean what you want it to mean. It says why in the article.

better policing includes more responsive and effective policing that involves less deadly force. I think the ideas surrounding “community policing” are pretty good, but policing is not the root of the problem and can only do so much.

Under-served communities of color or inner city ghettos were in part planned. Sure, the laws since the civil rights act have been pretty fair in their words, but stymied by segregationists and other dissenters. This has greatly exacerbated the violence and crime in these neighborhoods.
Similarly, big cities attract the best and worst of people. Lots of high rollers and lots of criminals. Most big cities have higher crime rates than small ones. I would put together social programs that greatly rewarded investment in these communities.

The problem is our whole economy is incentivized wrong for this kind of thing. When you tell an American “you should invest in grocery stores in poor neighborhoods” they say “what’s in it for me?”
Capitalism the way we practice it is a great way to build an economy quickly, but eventually that fire runs out of fuel and starts to eat itself. Sometimes a technology (or something) comes along and gives us more fuel to burn, but if that doesn’t happen we’ll divide into teams and fight each other.

Im not a fan of what public schools have been and have become, but if we privatize schooling it’ll get worse. It’s just like McDonalds. Remember what a McD’s burger was like in the sixties? Totally different. All their food was way better back then. Same thing will happen with privatizing education. And then what happens when we have these huge school conglomerates and we have a major correction or recession? Yup, bailouts with tax payer money. It’s the whole incentive for vouchers, charters, and common core. Capitalists want a shot at government money. That’s the whole reason the boys at the top introduced the ideas in the first place.

I don’t think there’s anyway to keep flogging this horse for much longer. Late stage capitalism is upon us. We need a new system, or pretty radical reform.

 

[Fishking]

The data is on your side that black people want better policing and schools. It just doesn’t mean what you want it to mean. It says why in the article.

I mean all the data, and that includes police interactions with the various groups. Adjust for violent crime rates and compare the data and it doesn't pan out the way it's portrayed.

better policing includes more responsive and effective policing that involves less deadly force. I think the ideas surrounding “community policing” are pretty good, but policing is not the root of the problem and can only do so much.

"more responsiveness" "less deadly force" are ideological statements, not concrete methods. Community policing doesn't actually work.

Community Policing: A Better Way to Improve Policing or a Bust?

fsi.stanford.edu

Blair: We find that community policing doesn’t live up to its promise when implemented in the Global South. Community policing doesn’t build trust between citizens and police, it doesn’t lead to citizens to share the kinds of tips and information with police that might improve police efficiency, and, perhaps not surprisingly then, it does not lead to lower crime. This disappointing result was apparent across all six contexts and for all of the primary outcomes we measured.

Under-served communities of color or inner city ghettos were in part planned. Sure, the laws since the civil rights act have been pretty fair in their words, but stymied by segregationists and other dissenters. This has greatly exacerbated the violence and crime in these neighborhoods.

Yes, there are dynamics that were set up in the past that most definitely have lasting effects but when does any kind of personal responsibility come to play?

Similarly, big cities attract the best and worst of people. Lots of high rollers and lots of criminals. Most big cities have higher crime rates than small ones. I would put together social programs that greatly rewarded investment in these communities.

The problem is our whole economy is incentivized wrong for this kind of thing. When you tell an American “you should invest in grocery stores in poor neighborhoods” they say “what’s in it for me?”
Capitalism the way we practice it is a great way to build an economy quickly, but eventually that fire runs out of fuel and starts to eat itself. Sometimes a technology (or something) comes along and gives us more fuel to burn, but if that doesn’t happen we’ll divide into teams and fight each other.

The problem is that investments have happened, grocery stores built, ect, but they close down their doors due to robbery and crime rates making it so they are not viable.

Im not a fan of what public schools have been and have become, but if we privatize schooling it’ll get worse. It’s just like McDonalds. Remember what a McD’s burger was like in the sixties? Totally different. All their food was way better back then. Same thing will happen with privatizing education.

Well, the great thing is that you're not forced to go to McDs. You can choose to go to you local burger joint or a chain that still has good burgers. That's what choices gets you, competition. Everyone knows you only go to McDs for breakfast anyways.

I don’t think there’s anyway to keep flogging this horse for much longer. Late stage capitalism is upon us. We need a new system, or pretty radical reform.

We don't really have a good form of capitalism. We have crony capitalism. Further, while capitalism does have it's flaws, it's still the best system out there. It's the force that has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system to ever exist. It's brought us literal wonders.

Back on topic, for something I think is a good concrete thing to do to help improve policing is to do rotations. I had a friend that was a Baltimore police officer and his experiences wasn't incomparable at times to my deployments. You know what we did for deployments? Rotated out. You can't leave police officers in high-risk zones for years on end and not have PTSD and all kind of other issues. There should be rotations implemented between the dangerous areas and the low crime areas where, at most, you're doing a 3 to 1 year rotation with the surrounding areas.

No one, and I mean no one, is going to put a police uniform on and work in some of these areas and not be effected. Anyone who says otherwise are lying to themselves.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

You hear this from conservatives about how George Floyd was no saint. About how he had a criminal record and had drugs in his system when he died. This is said to downplay his death.

I think those who still hold that viewpoint should remember this woman:
View attachment 67413541

From 2004 to 2017, she was in the armed forces. In 2016, she faced criminal charges when she deliberately smashed her SUV into an ex gf of her current bf. In 2018, she purchased a pool servicing business only to face a $71,000 judgement after failing to repay a loan. Later that year, she fell down the Qanon rabbit hole. Following the conclusion of the 2020 election, she tweeted about how the election was stolen from Trump. Then on January 6, she alongside thousands of others marched into the capitol building.

Her name was Ashley Babbit

Some conservatives say that she was a martyr even though she, by entering the capitol, was commiting a crime. Those same people said that George Floyd was no saint as to downplay his death. Sure, Floyd may have had a criminal record but Babbit was no saint either. Why should she be treated any differently than Floyd? Both were killed by cops. If you back the blue, you should hold Babbit with as much contempt that you hold Floyd.

Both Babbit and Floyd were thugs that just didnt seem to have time to listen to the Police.
I put Floyd a few notches lower on the totem pole simply because I consider breaking into a private residence and terrorizing innocent civilians is somewhat worse, IMHO, then say having a summary judgement against you for failing to repay a loan. (eyes rolling WAY back on that one BTW)
But hey when a cop points a gun at you and tells you to do something....it always pays to listen.

NO GREAT LOSS on either of these folks IMO.

 

[beefheart]

You hear this from conservatives about how George Floyd was no saint. About how he had a criminal record and had drugs in his system when he died. This is said to downplay his death.

I think those who still hold that viewpoint should remember this woman:


From 2004 to 2017, she was in the armed forces. In 2016, she faced criminal charges when she deliberately smashed her SUV into an ex gf of her current bf. In 2018, she purchased a pool servicing business only to face a $71,000 judgement after failing to repay a loan. Later that year, she fell down the Qanon rabbit hole. Following the conclusion of the 2020 election, she tweeted about how the election was stolen from Trump. Then on January 6, she alongside thousands of others marched into the capitol building.

Her name was Ashley Babbit

Some conservatives say that she was a martyr even though she, by entering the capitol, was commiting a crime. Those same people said that George Floyd was no saint as to downplay his death. Sure, Floyd may have had a criminal record but Babbit was no saint either. Why should she be treated any differently than Floyd? Both were killed by cops. If you back the blue, you should hold Babbit with as much contempt that you hold Floyd.

Ashley F'd around and Found out.

She was a terrorist, she deserved to die.

 

[beefheart]

George Floyd was a career criminal who died of a drug overdose.

Ashli Babbitt was a patriot killed for protesting against her government.

Nope.

Terrorist and a pretty stupid one. She died trying to overthrow the government. I wouldn't allow her traitor corpse to be buried in this country.

 

[brianpatrick]

I mean all the data, and that includes police interactions with the various groups. Adjust for violent crime rates and compare the data and it doesn't pan out the way it's portrayed.

"more responsiveness" "less deadly force" are ideological statements, not concrete methods. Community policing doesn't actually work.

Community Policing: A Better Way to Improve Policing or a Bust?

fsi.stanford.edu

Blair: We find that community policing doesn’t live up to its promise when implemented in the Global South. Community policing doesn’t build trust between citizens and police, it doesn’t lead to citizens to share the kinds of tips and information with police that might improve police efficiency, and, perhaps not surprisingly then, it does not lead to lower crime. This disappointing result was apparent across all six contexts and for all of the primary outcomes we measured.

Yes, there are dynamics that were set up in the past that most definitely have lasting effects but when does any kind of personal responsibility come to play?

The problem is that investments have happened, grocery stores built, ect, but they close down their doors due to robbery and crime rates making it so they are not viable.

Well, the great thing is that you're not forced to go to McDs. You can choose to go to you local burger joint or a chain that still has good burgers. That's what choices gets you, competition. Everyone knows you only go to McDs for breakfast anyways.

We don't really have a good form of capitalism. We have crony capitalism. Further, while capitalism does have it's flaws, it's still the best system out there. It's the force that has lifted more people out of poverty than any other system to ever exist. It's brought us literal wonders.

Back on topic, for something I think is a good concrete thing to do to help improve policing is to do rotations. I had a friend that was a Baltimore police officer and his experiences wasn't incomparable at times to my deployments. You know what we did for deployments? Rotated out. You can't leave police officers in high-risk zones for years on end and not have PTSD and all kind of other issues. There should be rotations implemented between the dangerous areas and the low crime areas where, at most, you're doing a 3 to 1 year rotation with the surrounding areas.

No one, and I mean no one, is going to put a police uniform on and work in some of these areas and not be effected. Anyone who says otherwise are lying to themselves.

From your link:

Increases in locally appropriate community policing practices led to no improvements in citizen-police trust, no greater citizen cooperation with the police, and no reduction in crime in any of the six sites. Despite a strong commitment from leadership in each context at the outset, the police implemented the interventions unevenly and incompletely. Although citizens reported more frequent and robust exposure to the police in places where community policing was implemented, we have limited evidence of police action in response to citizen reports. Three implementation challenges common to police reforms may have contributed to these disappointing results: a lack of sustained buy-in from police leadership, frequent rotation of police leadership and their officers, and a lack of resources to respond to issues raised by citizens.

The cops didn’t really DO it. They failed to “buy in.” I don’t see how that equals “it doesn’t work.” That’s what I mean about data. It’s good at the “what” and not so good at the “why.”

I understand that 99% of police interactions go off without any big problems, and that entrenched urban neighborhoods are just that, entrenched in a level of crime and violence higher and more persistent than in smaller cities. In some places it’s rooted now in a culture. But those people aren’t inherently more violent than any other human. They are desperate and probably have as much PTSD as the cops who don’t rotate enough. In my opinion cops should have years more training than we currently give them—like going to college. Incarceration is also a for profit business in America. That’s a bad idea and has perverse incentives. Look at the Swedish models for criminal reforms. Can we implement that tomorrow? Nope. It would take a lot of time and reform/retraining. The culture of violence exists, and you can’t just change that overnight, but it seems like it can be done. But if you start from the point of view that these people are inherently more violent it will never work.

And yeah, capitalism has brought us wonders, and lifted billions of people out of poverty around the world. Once the resources become scarce though, it becomes late stage capitalism and we divide and start eating ourselves.

 

[reinaert]

Executed for suspicion of a fake $20 is not like being shot while trying to hang the Vice President and/or take the Speaker of the House captive, all so a mobbed up grifter rapist can steal the Presidency.

 

[Superfly]

Ashley F'd around and Found out.

She was a terrorist, she deserved to die.

 

[Aristaeus]

She was the first one up on the barricade, so she won the prize.

The prize being an all-expenses paid trip to the forever box.

 

[Fishking]

From your link:

Increases in locally appropriate community policing practices led to no improvements in citizen-police trust, no greater citizen cooperation with the police, and no reduction in crime in any of the six sites. Despite a strong commitment from leadership in each context at the outset, the police implemented the interventions unevenly and incompletely. Although citizens reported more frequent and robust exposure to the police in places where community policing was implemented, we have limited evidence of police action in response to citizen reports. Three implementation challenges common to police reforms may have contributed to these disappointing results: a lack of sustained buy-in from police leadership, frequent rotation of police leadership and their officers, and a lack of resources to respond to issues raised by citizens.

The cops didn’t really DO it. They failed to “buy in.” I don’t see how that equals “it doesn’t work.” That’s what I mean about data. It’s good at the “what” and not so good at the “why.”

It's easy to always blame the police officers and not the dynamic that exists. Do you think that people going into policing are all just people bad at their jobs and or terrible people? Or do you think there is a dynamic at play that makes getting the desired results more idealistic than reality based?

I understand that 99% of police interactions go off without any big problems, and that entrenched urban neighborhoods are just that, entrenched in a level of crime and violence higher and more persistent than in smaller cities. In some places it’s rooted now in a culture.

If you understand that part above then you acknowledge that the narrative that is out there on the left does not match reality. We do need to work on fixing these issues that then flow into many of the issues with policing.

But those people aren’t inherently more violent than any other human. They are desperate and probably have as much PTSD as the cops who don’t rotate enough.

100% agree.

In my opinion cops should have years more training than we currently give them—like going to college. Incarceration is also a for profit business in America. That’s a bad idea and has perverse incentives. Look at the Swedish models for criminal reforms. Can we implement that tomorrow? Nope. It would take a lot of time and reform/retraining. The culture of violence exists, and you can’t just change that overnight, but it seems like it can be done. But if you start from the point of view that these people are inherently more violent it will never work.

I don't think we could do a 4 year degree and maintain a police force. I really don't. Again, I don't think the issue is really with the training, though I'm sure there could be improvements. There are so many variables that play into it (you've said a bunch above) that it's a difficult mess to untangle and simple fixes won't get there.

For another example of something that should be changed, imo (going back to my deployment experience) is that police officers shouldn't roll out solo. There should be two officers per car, as the minimum standard. What people fail to realize is that if you're by yourself, the line to cross for use of deadly force is very short, even if the other person is unarmed. The Army never rolled out the gate without a certain number of trucks and weapons systems.

And yeah, capitalism has brought us wonders, and lifted billions of people out of poverty around the world. Once the resources become scarce though, it becomes late stage capitalism and we divide and start eating ourselves.

Tangent topic continued: I don't think it's capitalism that's causing the divide, at least not directly. It's ideology. Perhaps the fact that we are so affluent that divides are easier to have happen that, at most, is where capitalism comes to play.

See...we're doing specifics and on topic discussion and it's much better, isn't it?

 

[Maidenrules29]

He actually was just going about his day. It wasn't like he was plotting a bank heist when he was arrested.

Passing some counterfeit money while hopped up on dope is just "going about one's day" then. Thinking like this IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

 

[multivita-man]

Passing some counterfeit money while hopped up on dope is just "going about one's day" then. Thinking like this IS PART OF THE PROBLEM.

Did he know the bill was counterfeit?

 

[Ouroboros]

You hear this from conservatives about how George Floyd was no saint. About how he had a criminal record and had drugs in his system when he died. This is said to downplay his death.

I think those who still hold that viewpoint should remember this woman:
View attachment 67413541

From 2004 to 2017, she was in the armed forces. In 2016, she faced criminal charges when she deliberately smashed her SUV into an ex gf of her current bf. In 2018, she purchased a pool servicing business only to face a $71,000 judgement after failing to repay a loan. Later that year, she fell down the Qanon rabbit hole. Following the conclusion of the 2020 election, she tweeted about how the election was stolen from Trump. Then on January 6, she alongside thousands of others marched into the capitol building.

Her name was Ashley Babbit

Some conservatives say that she was a martyr even though she, by entering the capitol, was commiting a crime. Those same people said that George Floyd was no saint as to downplay his death. Sure, Floyd may have had a criminal record but Babbit was no saint either. Why should she be treated any differently than Floyd? Both were killed by cops. If you back the blue, you should hold Babbit with as much contempt that you hold Floyd.

Just in case no one mentioned it yet, Babbitt ran her SUV into the car owned by the gf, not into the gf herself.

The main likeness is that both resisted police authority and paid the ultimate price for it, and both were used as propaganda pieces by political interests. But Babbitt had far less impact than Floyd. Supposedly people in Africa know who Floyd is. Do any of them know Babbitt?