Generator testing!

[longview]

On my path to retirement, I have been doing projects that I would rather do while working.
One of those is a generator feeding the electrical panel of the house.
I had the new panel put in (Manual switch interlock) and rigged the natural gas generator to run inside a storage box,
but had not gotten around to testing the system.
Well about noon my time the power went off, on it's own.
I went out, plugged in the gas line, and the power cord, turned on the gas and fired the generator up.
At the breaker box, I switched off the mail, and the central AC, lifter the interlock, and engaged the generator.
not really surprised, but everything works.
My wife defrosted lunch in the microwave and then cooked with the electric range, everything normal.
I do not think my generator would start my 5 ton AC, so did not even bother, I have portables if the power outage continued for several days.
for now I am wondering how I will know when the power comes back on?

 

[bongsaway]

I just invested in a dual fuel generator and ordered a transfer switch for life in central Florida. Hope to have it up and waiting before our next power outage. I feel better about hurricane season already.

 

[longview]

I just invested in a dual fuel generator and ordered a transfer switch for life in central Florida. Hope to have it up and waiting before our next power outage. I feel better about hurricane season already.

That was my plan, it turned out I did not have to wait that long, just a good old thunderstorm.

 

[DataPoint]

Stop your generator and turn on your ACs every hour. You will know when the power is back on.

 

[bongsaway]

That was my plan, it turned out I did not have to wait that long, just a good old thunderstorm.

Living in the lightning cap of the country and a part of the gulf coast, I understand completely.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

On my path to retirement, I have been doing projects that I would rather do while working.
One of those is a generator feeding the electrical panel of the house.
I had the new panel put in (Manual switch interlock) and rigged the natural gas generator to run inside a storage box,
but had not gotten around to testing the system.
Well about noon my time the power went off, on it's own.
I went out, plugged in the gas line, and the power cord, turned on the gas and fired the generator up.
At the breaker box, I switched off the mail, and the central AC, lifter the interlock, and engaged the generator.
not really surprised, but everything works.
My wife defrosted lunch in the microwave and then cooked with the electric range, everything normal.
I do not think my generator would start my 5 ton AC, so did not even bother, I have portables if the power outage continued for several days.
for now I am wondering how I will know when the power comes back on?

You're right, starting current is usually 2 – 2.5 times the running current.
But like you said, the portables can pinch hit for you.

We are planning to get a gennie that takes natgas because we already have the "unused" BBQ gas line out there.

 

[longview]

Stop your generator and turn on your ACs every hour. You will know when the power is back on.

Well my Neighbor has one of the automatic ones, so I think I may hear when his goes off.

 

[longview]

You're right, starting current is usually 2 – 2.5 times the running current.
But like you said, the portables can pinch hit for you.

We are planning to get a gennie that takes natgas because we already have the "unused" BBQ gas line out there.

I had taken out the swimming pool, and so had a large gas connection for the pool heater.
So far it is running great. If the power stays off for a few more hours, I will have to get one of the small AC running,
but the outage is small, so I suspect they will fix it quickly.

 

[Grand Mal]

On my path to retirement, I have been doing projects that I would rather do while working.
One of those is a generator feeding the electrical panel of the house.
I had the new panel put in (Manual switch interlock) and rigged the natural gas generator to run inside a storage box,
but had not gotten around to testing the system.
Well about noon my time the power went off, on it's own.
I went out, plugged in the gas line, and the power cord, turned on the gas and fired the generator up.
At the breaker box, I switched off the mail, and the central AC, lifter the interlock, and engaged the generator.
not really surprised, but everything works.
My wife defrosted lunch in the microwave and then cooked with the electric range, everything normal.
I do not think my generator would start my 5 ton AC, so did not even bother, I have portables if the power outage continued for several days.
for now I am wondering how I will know when the power comes back on?

One of my buds has a welder-generator and an extension cord with two male ends. He plugs it into his outside outlet and powers the whole house but he says you have to be sure you trip the main breaker so you don't send current out on the lines. The guys working on restoring the power won't appreciate a live current where there isn't supposed to be any.

 

[longview]

You're right, starting current is usually 2 – 2.5 times the running current.
But like you said, the portables can pinch hit for you.

We are planning to get a gennie that takes natgas because we already have the "unused" BBQ gas line out there.

Because of limitation on getting a generac, (12 weeks out), and some city permitting requirement with standby generators,
I got a large natural gas portable.
FIRMAN T08071 10000 WATT - TRI FUEL (GAS, LPG, NG) Generator
The electrician wired it in with a 50 amp breaker.
later if the supplies come back up, I may switch this out with Kohler 12K, which thanks to some power boost technology,
can start a 5 ton AC with a 5 K preload. (at least that is what the video shows.)

 

[longview]

One of my buds has a welder-generator and an extension cord with two male ends. He plugs it into his outside outlet and powers the whole house but he says you have to be sure you trip the main breaker so you don't send current out on the lines. The guys working on restoring the power won't appreciate a live current where there isn't supposed to be any.

Right, my codes require an interlock, so the generator breaker and the main cannot be on at the same time.

 

[ttwtt78640]

On my path to retirement, I have been doing projects that I would rather do while working.
One of those is a generator feeding the electrical panel of the house.
I had the new panel put in (Manual switch interlock) and rigged the natural gas generator to run inside a storage box,
but had not gotten around to testing the system.
Well about noon my time the power went off, on it's own.
I went out, plugged in the gas line, and the power cord, turned on the gas and fired the generator up.
At the breaker box, I switched off the mail, and the central AC, lifter the interlock, and engaged the generator.
not really surprised, but everything works.
My wife defrosted lunch in the microwave and then cooked with the electric range, everything normal.
I do not think my generator would start my 5 ton AC, so did not even bother, I have portables if the power outage continued for several days.
for now I am wondering how I will know when the power comes back on?

I‘m a bit confused about your setup. Normally, a manual transfer switch supplies a subset of (sub-panel containing) breakers with either line power or your (often portable) generator power. The easiest way to tell when line power returns is to check something inside your house which is not running on generator (back-up) power (like your central A/C) - when it is (back) on you have line power (restored).

Often, your transfer switch panel setup will have “idiot lights” which indicate which sources are (currently) available, as well as the manual (transfer) switch selecting which is (currently) in use, but the “idiot lights” are often not visible from inside the house.

Manual Transfer Switch Buyer's Guide - How to Pick the Perfect Manual Transfer Switch

Learn how to automatically connect your generator to your home with a manual transfer switch during a power outage. No more running extension cords outside. Power your circuits directly.

www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com

 

[longview]

I‘m a bit confused about your setup. Normally, a manual transfer switch supplies a subset of (sub-panel containing) breakers with either line power or your (often portable) generator power. The easiest way to tell when line power returns is to check something inside your house which is not running on generator (back-up) power (like your central A/C) - when it is (back) on you have line power (restored).

Often, your transfer switch panel setup will have “idiot lights” which indicate which sources are (currently) available, as well as the manual (transfer) switch selecting which is (currently) in use, but the “idiot lights” are often not visible from inside the house.

Manual Transfer Switch Buyer's Guide - How to Pick the Perfect Manual Transfer Switch

Learn how to automatically connect your generator to your home with a manual transfer switch during a power outage. No more running extension cords outside. Power your circuits directly.

www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com

Sorry, the way the electrician wired it, it power up the whole panel, and I pick what I do not want to run (Or cannot).
I Knew with this generator, I could not run the central AC, so I switched it off also when I switched off the main to engage the interlock.
no that you mention it, my power meter will tell me when the power is back on, thanks!

 

[DataPoint]

Well my Neighbor has one of the automatic ones, so I think I may hear when his goes off.

(in a Minnesota accent by Jessie Buckley): there you go!

 

[longview]

(in a Minnesota accent by Jessie Buckley): there you go!

Actually I have solved that problem, when the power comes back the power meter will turn back on.
It is digital and shows numbers for usage, date, ect, without power, it shows nothing.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Sorry, the way the electrician wired it, it power up the whole panel, and I pick what I do not want to run (Or cannot).
I Knew with this generator, I could not run the central AC, so I switched it off also when I switched off the main to engage the interlock.
no that you mention it, my power meter will tell me when the power is back on, thanks!

That is a rather odd (minimalist?) setup, but likely saved you some money.

 

[longview]

That is a rather odd (minimalist?) setup, but likely saved you some money.

It cam down to what was available, and some strange city requirements.
The bigger standby units were simply not available.
Generac Guardian Series Air-Cooled Home Standby Generator — 24 kW (LP)/21 kW (NG), Model# 7209

Factory Shipped —
Estimated Delivery: 237 - 239 Business Days

The lead time has increased, it was 200 days when I looked earlier.
In any case the long lead time, and the city saying a standby generator needed to be installed at least 5 feet from a wall,
I did not have 5 feet to the back wall of the garage to the easement.
the definition of a standby generator is one the turns on by itself.
I have to go out and start mine, (Electric Start) but this first time it took 5 min, in the future it will be less.
I think my total out of pocket was under $2K, and my power is on now.
BTW, Quotes for the whole house 22 KW installed were about $12 to 15K.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It cam down to what was available, and some strange city requirements.
The bigger standby units were simply not available.
Generac Guardian Series Air-Cooled Home Standby Generator — 24 kW (LP)/21 kW (NG), Model# 7209

The lead time has increased, it was 200 days when I looked earlier.
In any case the long lead time, and the city saying a standby generator needed to be installed at least 5 feet from a wall,
I did not have 5 feet to the back wall of the garage to the easement.
the definition of a standby generator is one the turns on by itself.
I have to go out and start mine, (Electric Start) but this first time it took 5 min, in the future it will be less.
I think my total out of pocket was under $2K, and my power is on now.
BTW, Quotes for the whole house 22 KW installed were about $12 to 15K.

I’m not talking about upgrading to a true “whole house” (200 amp capable “standby”?) generator - just using a manual transfer switch with a separate (incorporated?) sub-panel (as depicted in my first reply’s links) and your “portable” (30 to 50 amp “RV plug-in”?) generator.

 

[longview]

I’m not talking about upgrading to a true “whole house” (200 amp capable “standby”?) generator - just using a manual transfer switch with a separate (incorporated?) sub-panel (as depicted in my first reply’s links) and your “portable” (30 to 50 amp “RV plug-in”?) generator.

Both methods work, the only advantage I can see going my way is that I could readjust the loads if necessary.
The manual subpanels can only power your predefined circuits, I was ready to do that when my electrician said he was going another way.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Both methods work, the only advantage I can see going my way is that I could readjust the loads if necessary.
The manual subpanels can only power your predefined circuits, I was ready to do that when my electrician said he was going another way.

Yep, you could more easily “upgrade” (later) by just adding a bigger generator and “main” transfer switch.

 

[longview]

Yep, you could more easily “upgrade” (later) by just adding a bigger generator and “main” transfer switch.

He used a 50 amp breaker to feed in my generator, and that should be enough for all my stuff.
My AC is very high efficiency, and draws only about 38 amps, but if I need a bigger breaker, there is room for one.

 

[ttwtt78640]

He used a 50 amp breaker to feed in my generator, and that should be enough for all my stuff.
My AC is very high efficiency, and draws only about 38 amps, but if I need a bigger breaker, there is room for one.

A typical (4 to 5 ton) central A/C system has a 40 amp breaker - our small house (2.5 ton) central A/C unit only needs a 25 amp breaker. The problem is that when you subtract that 40 amps from your 50 amp total you are left with (essentially) nothing but enough to run a few light bulbs. Best to resign yourself to doing without the A/C during power outages or frequently fiddling with the breaker panel settings.

 

[eohrnberger]

I just invested in a dual fuel generator and ordered a transfer switch for life in central Florida. Hope to have it up and waiting before our next power outage. I feel better about hurricane season already.

We appear to have one of those. It took about 90 seconds for the generate to fire up on grid power loss, and after that all was well and powered.
When the line power came back on, the generator quit, which was the only way that we noticed, as the transition back to grid power didn't interrupt anything.
(so I'm figuring that some sort of AC current wave matching between the generator and the grids before cutting over to the grid must be going on)

In our case the geo-thermal unit is on the generator so we have heating / AC while on generator.

 

[beerftw]

On my path to retirement, I have been doing projects that I would rather do while working.
One of those is a generator feeding the electrical panel of the house.
I had the new panel put in (Manual switch interlock) and rigged the natural gas generator to run inside a storage box,
but had not gotten around to testing the system.
Well about noon my time the power went off, on it's own.
I went out, plugged in the gas line, and the power cord, turned on the gas and fired the generator up.
At the breaker box, I switched off the mail, and the central AC, lifter the interlock, and engaged the generator.
not really surprised, but everything works.
My wife defrosted lunch in the microwave and then cooked with the electric range, everything normal.
I do not think my generator would start my 5 ton AC, so did not even bother, I have portables if the power outage continued for several days.
for now I am wondering how I will know when the power comes back on?

What wattage is the generator? Also is it a pure sine wave or modified sine wave? To put it simply most generators labelled pure sine wave are inverter generators, while most non inverter generators are modified sine wave. The sine wave makes a difference on what is used, for example an lcd tv or a desktop computer might work but act unpredictably, while a laptop might run fine on a modified sinewave as the battery and power inverter acts as a filter.

The more delicate the circuitry, the more the wave matters. If you have old incandescent bulbs in a light fixture, try it with a modified sine wave, the bulb flickers like crazy, on some electronics this can cause hell. The good news it however if you have something like computers modern tv sets and other modern gizmos you want to protect and run with a modified sine wave, an uninteruptable power supply or upc convertes the wave for you and they are fairly cheap so you can keep those if you do not have an inverter generator or are unsure. Things like light bulbs, refridgerators, microwaves electric space heaters etc do not care how pure the wave is, they do not need a pure wave.

Depending on the size of the house and how many are using electronics, 5-10k generator will run the entire house minus ac, electric heaters(house heaters not space heaters) dryers and electric stoves. For the rest it depends on how much juice you need to kickstart, and the running wattage. Some houses may run 5-6k watts continuous but need upwards of 20k watts to kick start multiple devices like ac and other not so soft start devices. This also depends on the size of the ac unit, or wattage of heaters and electric stove, as well as the wattage needed to start the fan for said heater/ac.

Many devices have capacitors to handle surge voltage, infact most do, however the capacitors reduce starting voltage requirement, but can not eliminate it short of a monster sized one as startup draws a lot of juice, it also depends on the charge and discharge rate of the capacitor, as a capacitor is basically a quick charge/discharge battery.

 

[beerftw]

One of my buds has a welder-generator and an extension cord with two male ends. He plugs it into his outside outlet and powers the whole house but he says you have to be sure you trip the main breaker so you don't send current out on the lines. The guys working on restoring the power won't appreciate a live current where there isn't supposed to be any.

That 2 male ended cord is called a suicide cord, if the breaker is not shut off it can kill power line workers, and even with the main breaker shut off it bypasses much of the safety of the relay system and can cause fires. There is a reason why nearly everywhere has a code outlawing suicide cords, the switching breaker not only protects electric workers, but also ensures power goes start to finish through the breaker system rather than feeding it backwards.