• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gender Pronouns

Bodhisattva

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
94,888
Reaction score
20,174
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
They works, I even accept 'it' from people that are too confused by 'they'.
They is an odd way to refer to a single person. I said 'how is she' the other day not knowing there was a pronoun issue and was corrected by another saying "how is they"... and that, is freaking weird. I am not saying 'how is they' for any reason. I just said, "alright then... how is Susan" (made up name).
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,598
Reaction score
4,880
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Stop reading BS blogs and conservative sources that tell you half of the story because of their biased opinions.


Puberty blockers are not about mental health snd more than hormones are. They are to stop the body from maturing in the wrong gender so that fewer hormones are needed and the person isn't forced to fight against their body to mature it in the gender of their gender identity. Long term the entire process is about mental health but blockers by themselves are not about mental health despite what a biased blog has told you.

Puberty blockers were never meant for transgeendered, but like most drugs that are used for transgendered care, they were adopted. There are too few trans people to make it fiscally feasible to create drugs just for this situation.

It is more and more obvious that you don't understand the big picture or the goals but only a few conservative talking points that you repeat ad nauseaum.

What blog? Haven't read a blog.

I have never said that a PB was like a zoloft. Ever. It is not a mental health drug. I have never said it was.

Yet, kids that are on PB to prevent going through the "wrong puberty" are not having a "significant improvement on their psychological function, thoughts of self-harm, or body image" as those actually going through the "wrong puberty".
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
13,359
Reaction score
6,301
Location
Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
What blog? Haven't read a blog.

I have never said that a PB was like a zoloft. Ever. It is not a mental health drug. I have never said it was.

Yet, kids that are on PB to prevent going through the "wrong puberty" are not having a "significant improvement on their psychological function, thoughts of self-harm, or body image" as those actually going through the "wrong puberty".
Wheere are you getting your information?

If you don't like the current treatment protocol then tell me what your superior plan that has proven to have better long-term results is because until you have one you are cherry-picking anything that supports your biased opinions, delete the fact that those ideas lead to a worse long term outcome. Nobody has ever said that it is perfect but it is an improvement over the past or not doing anything at all, or worse, attempts at reparative therapy.
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,598
Reaction score
4,880
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Wheere are you getting your information?

If you don't like the current treatment protocol then tell me what your superior plan that has proven to have better long-term results is because until you have one you are cherry-picking anything that supports your biased opinions, delete the fact that those ideas lead to a worse long term outcome. Nobody has ever said that it is perfect but it is an improvement over the past or not doing anything at all, or worse, attempts at reparative therapy.

Recent study.

I like some of what the high Court in England said... paraphrased:

Kids do not have the capacity.to understand long term impacts. Therapy for co-morbidities. Counseling. More and higher quality research.

Nice found a lot of bias in the studies as well as poor quality surrounding pb.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
13,359
Reaction score
6,301
Location
Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Recent study.

I like some of what the high Court in England said... paraphrased:

Kids do not have the capacity.to understand long term impacts. Therapy for co-morbidities. Counseling. More and higher quality research.

Nice found a lot of bias in the studies as well as poor quality surrounding pb.
Teens aren't making these decisions on their own. That is why they have psychologists and a team of Drs that do testing and counseling long before any medication is considered. You seem to think that this is a short process.
 

Aristaeus

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,418
Reaction score
2,205
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Teens aren't making these decisions on their own. That is why they have psychologists and a team of Drs that do testing and counseling long before any medication is considered. You seem to think that this is a short process.

And you think that the doctors and psychologists aren't under pressure to validate and confirm under the current climate?
 

buck

DP Veteran
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
11,598
Reaction score
4,880
Location
USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Teens aren't making these decisions on their own. That is why they have psychologists and a team of Drs that do testing and counseling long before any medication is considered. You seem to think that this is a short process.

We have already had this conversation. In some states it is very short, first visit process.
 

Aristaeus

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,418
Reaction score
2,205
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Puberty blockers are not given for psychological reasons.
You should cite better sources,




Puberty blockers are reversible,

Wiki

That is up for debate. The NHS recently altered its advice from saying they are reversible to saying they don't know what the long-term effects are.
 

Aristaeus

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,418
Reaction score
2,205
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Sure you can. If you dont know the gender of the person, use singular they. The article i showed you demonstrated this quite well.

But we do know the gender of a non-binary person - it is a neutral gender.

Having xe/xem pronouns would actually be a much better solution. It provides a direct neutral alternative to he/she, and keeps they/them for plural and singular for when we don't know if the person is a he/she/xe.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
What is the reason?


( I'm going to ask because I like surprises)



As a teacher and a psychologist explained to me a very long time ago, people are afraid of what they don't understand but most of them have no desire to learn but instead, they attack those who tell them that their claims are wrong. People want things to be easy and binary and not having to think through the various ideas that make up a whole. Male, female, penis, vagina, heterosexual. The idea that some people are bisexual is even threatening to them.
Bisexual is a good example. It amazes me how hard it is for some people to grasp that the vast majority of bisexual people are not looking to actually have a partner of each sex, that they are merely potentially attracted to more people than the average heterosexual or homosexual person is because sex/gender is not a limiting factor on who they can be attracted to. It isn't even that hard of a concept to understand either, since most people are attracted to more than one person, at least throughout their life, but still only want to be with a single person at a time.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Yes but it is even wider than that. Every cell in our bodies has a copy of our DNA, which among many other things, indicates our sex.
And you can have cells in your body that are opposite sex. Many people do, but don't know it because they have found that chimerism is much more common than previously believed.


This is one of many things that makes sex and biology much more complicated than just "XX = female, XY = male". And before anyone starts going off on "that's rare", being intersexed in some way is less rare than being transgender.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
John: Hey Steve, where is Brian?
Steve: They is taking a walk in the woods.
If someone asked for "Carey" and you tell them "they aren't here right now", is Carey a man or a woman? Can you see any reason to not let that person asking know whether Carey is a man or a woman by using a gender neutral pronoun?
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
They are, in that sentence, is a present indicative plural. It cannot work as a singular. The singular is 'is'.

If you is gone to ignore grammar rules, you were make things confusing.
They has worked as a gender neutral pronoun for a single person who's gender is either unknown or that someone wants to remain unknown for quite some time in our language.

If I am at work and do not know the gender of the submitter of a ticket I am discussing with my team mates, it is not at all uncommon for any of us to use "they" in regards to that single submitter, rather than guessing the gender or using he/she, which is much more awkward.
 

Aristaeus

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,418
Reaction score
2,205
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
They has worked as a gender neutral pronoun for a single person who's gender is either unknown or that someone wants to remain unknown for quite some time in our language.

If I am at work and do not know the gender of the submitter of a ticket I am discussing with my team mates, it is not at all uncommon for any of us to use "they" in regards to that single submitter, rather than guessing the gender or using he/she, which is much more awkward.

But the gender identity of a non binary person is known - we know they are non binary/ neutral.

Xe would be a better alternative than they for a nb person.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
But the gender identity of a non binary person is known - we know they are non binary/ neutral.

Xe would be a better alternative than they for a nb person.
Either would work. That is the point. If "they" has been used for singular in other ways, then there is no reason it cannot be used as a pronoun for a nonbinary person.
 

Aristaeus

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2014
Messages
4,418
Reaction score
2,205
Location
UK
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Either would work. That is the point. If "they" has been used for singular in other ways, then there is no reason it cannot be used as a pronoun for a nonbinary person.

They as a singular is nothing more than a linguistic band aid. A workaround because there was no neutral version of he/she. It is not a direct alternative.
 

ASHES

A Person
Joined
Sep 10, 2020
Messages
9,382
Reaction score
3,494
Location
Canada
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
They as a singular is nothing more than a linguistic band aid. A workaround because there was no neutral version of he/she. It is not a direct alternative.
Thee.
 

roguenuke

DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
45,919
Reaction score
16,073
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
They as a singular is nothing more than a linguistic band aid. A workaround because there was no neutral version of he/she. It is not a direct alternative.
Language is how we make it, what we can get used to using in a way that works for us. So since we are already used to using that, then it is a direct alternative.
 

bomberfox

DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
14,270
Reaction score
3,697
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
But we do know the gender of a non-binary person - it is a neutral gender.

Having xe/xem pronouns would actually be a much better solution. It provides a direct neutral alternative to he/she, and keeps they/them for plural and singular for when we don't know if the person is a he/she/xe.
Thats progress.
 

American

Constitutionalist
Bartender
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
89,024
Reaction score
28,061
Location
SE Virginia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Nine rows times five columns is 45 letter combinations, many of which belong to words we already know. Are you suggesting that it is really that difficult to learn thirty new words? ;)
You have fun with all that. I'm not going to bother. I completed grade school long ago, and have more important things to occupy my thoughts.
 

grip

☠ Suicide Blonde ☠
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 1, 2011
Messages
25,492
Reaction score
9,797
Location
Fl
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
This is even more confusing than street slang and ebonics. Can you imagine teenagers in school being coerced to use these terms? OMG, talk about getting set up to be bullied.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
13,359
Reaction score
6,301
Location
Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
And you think that the doctors and psychologists aren't under pressure to validate and confirm under the current climate?
No, they are not. Their medical license could be at risk if they refuse to do their duty and instead prescribe medication for someone who might have questions or has other problems that could appear to be trans. This is why there is medical and psych testing, plus counseling long before hormones and anti-androgens are considered. Drs and psychologists are not to function as rubber stamps.

We have already had this conversation. In some states it is very short, first visit process.
It might be that way for adults but not for teens. It should be a minimum of 90 days to 6 months of bimonthly psychologist counseling for both before medication is considered to get a full history and testing.
 

Lisa

Salem ac Leporem
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
Messages
13,359
Reaction score
6,301
Location
Ohio,
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
That is up for debate. The NHS recently altered its advice from saying they are reversible to saying they don't know what the long-term effects are.
The NHS is creating waiting lists and a backlog, to the point that some citizens are going overseas or underground to get care. I've heard that it can be two years.

I first visited my GP on the 23rd of February 2018, when she referred me to the GIC. It was approximately 7 months after when I was sent a letter from GIC asking me to fill out some paper word, which I did and sent it back.



Took them 8 months after that, May 2019, to write to me again, to invite me to a workshop information session. This session had a large number of people like myself (on the waiting list) gathering together to receive information on how the transition works. Although some of the information was useful, it was a bit of a waste of time to be honest, because our individual transitions were still on hold and the information given can be easily found online.


Only a few days ago, Friday 14th February, I received another letter from the GIC, excited to open it in the hope that it would be an appointment date, I was wrong. They were sending me a letter to tell me that I had to stop smoking. Although nothing wrong with the letter, I think this letter should have been sent to me after my referral was made and not almost two years later. I am nothing but disappointed with GIC, especially after this letter. I knew the waiting time would be long, hence why I decided to go private for my HRT and top surgery, but I can only imagine how individuals that are not able to go private must feel. It would be nice if the GIC communicated with their patients regarding the estimated waiting time and provided some supportive information regarding mental health options. I understand that they must be overwhelmed with the number of patients, but equally, they must look after each patient in a way or another.


Dysphoria is not an easy thing to deal with, especially for those who have no options but to wait on the NHS GIC and I hope a change is coming very soon before more people suffer from this.
 

Mashmont

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
17,861
Reaction score
1,475
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I had no idea that the golden rule and equal rights for others were so offensive to conservatives.

The people claiming that being transgender is a delusion seem to have forgotten that delusions were examined as a possibly by the medical establishment more than 60 years ago and rejected. Drs would not give hormones and perform surgery if the patient was delusional because they would instead prescribe medication such as Seroquel. Trans patients are screened for delusions as part of the initial screening process before hormones are administered.
L
Do you mind if I likewise refer to you as dirtbag and a'hole in an equal fashion if you want to treat others as lesser?

Do you claim to be a Christian, or is that only on Christmas, Easter, and other times it is beneficial to you to hide behind a religion?
Wow. Lisa is all for this crazy stuff. Who would've guessed that?
 

Mashmont

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2019
Messages
17,861
Reaction score
1,475
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Many of these pronouns I can't identify. Can someone inform me and others as to what they are and how you identify these people on do sight? I mean him or her is easy, but how do you identify a XE, XEM or an EY? What is that?View attachment 67326328
The way I handle this is if it's a woman, I say 'she' or 'her'. If its a guy, I say "he" or "him". Just like all sane people have done for centuries. I won't participate in this Marxist hogwash.
 
Top Bottom