Gender fluid athletes in sports

[vegas giants]

Too bad.

That's what they said to MLK jr

 

[CLAX1911]

We all have a say.

I don't compete in women's sports either, but I have daughters. They deserve to not swim against Lia Thomas.

They have to object. The coaches want this because boys and men outperform girls and women.

And, we all have to push back against this LGBT bullshit. They're pretending there isn't even such a thing as biological sex. They act like we shouldn't even say that primates have one head, because occasionally some are born as conjoined twins.

So I'm just curious why when these trans people participate in female sports and are still male why don't they're competitors object to it they have to that's the only way that stops. They have to object as in stop playing when the only team you have is one person as a coach you can't compete.

We have to stop letting them conflate sex and gender. You'll constantly find that lobby saying "sex is more complex....because people can identify as one or more of many different genders..." -- the response has to be that they can identify as whatever they want, but that doesn't change a primate's sex. A male who identifies as a woman may be a fine person, but that person is still male, whether identifying as a woman or bigender or polygender or agender or genderfluid or whatever. It's all fine, but we are allowed to differentiate sports leagues by sex, without regard to gender.

Yeah I don't buy that sex is more complex crap either that's just gaslighting.

You and me objecting means nothing. We can't do anything the coaches want this they probably cause it. The competitors have to say no until they do nothing will ever change.

I'm sorry that it's put on them I'm sorry that they have to do that but that's the only way.

 

[Aristaeus]

If we must segregate athletes, it makes more sense to me to separate by testosterone levels, not gender.

Makes even more sense to separate by sex since not all male advantages are testosterone related.

 

[Phys251]

Makes even more sense to separate by sex since not all male advantages are testosterone related.

Then you would punish trans athletes who have received hormone therapy. Maybe that is the point?

 

[vegas giants]

Then you would punish trans athletes who have received hormone therapy. Maybe that is the point?

Not punish. Just compete fairly with men

We should not punish female athletes

 

[Unbeknownst]

The whole idea of creating women's sports leagues was to include, not exclude. Now that we have a greater understanding of gender than we did in the '60s and '70s, we need to find ways to better include trans and intersex athletes. Letting trans youth who need hormone therapy have access to it would be a good start.

Of course.

I believe that until recently, that's what the NCAA has done. But these bills that force athletes to compete as the sex they are assigned at birth helps nobody.

I don't think athletes should have to compete as their assigned sex. While an AMAB woman shouldn't be forced to compete alongside men, in order to ensure fairness, she should have to fit within some sort of parameters, such as a testosterone level on par with AFAB women.

Gender is as much in the brain as anything, and if youth are given access to hormone therapy that they are entitled to, they'll develop according to their gender anyway.

I agree.

 

[vegas giants]

Of course.

I don't think athletes should have to compete as their assigned sex. While an AMAB woman shouldn't be forced to compete alongside men, in order to ensure fairness, she should have to fit within some sort of parameters, such as a testosterone level on par with AFAB women.

I agree.

Testosterone is not enough. She would have other advantages

 

[CLAX1911]

Actually it is the governing bodies and laws that force women to compete against these men, unless you are saying they should protest and not compete.

That's exactly what they have to do.

A male fighter lying about his sex has nobody to fight if nobody will fight with him. For things like high school sports it won't do quite as much but for things like professional sports they will throw those trans people out in an instant.

I don't know why anybody wants to see a dude beat up a woman that's just messed up.

 

[CLAX1911]

Then you would punish trans athletes who have received hormone therapy. Maybe that is the point?

Punish one person or everyone in the sport that's female?

I don't know why you people hate women so much.

 

[Aristaeus]

Then you would punish trans athletes who have received hormone therapy. Maybe that is the point?

There are some exceptions to the sex-segregation rule:

Transmen can compete against men.

Transwomen who have went through male puberty can compete against Women if male puberty doesn't confer a big advantage (netball is probably such a sport).

Transwomen who have not gone through male puberty can compete against women in all sports.

 

[Bodi]

That's exactly what they have to do.

A male fighter lying about his sex has nobody to fight if nobody will fight with him. For things like high school sports it won't do quite as much but for things like professional sports they will throw those trans people out in an instant.

I don't know why anybody wants to see a dude beat up a woman that's just messed up.

Agreed... The pro women should do a protest but I worry that some women's sports are hanging on by a thread in the first place and it might have negative consequences.

 

[Bodi]

Then you would punish trans athletes who have received hormone therapy. Maybe that is the point?

I will never understand the attitude that 99% of the athletes have to be punished to appease the 1%.

 

[rahl]

They were born biologically female but with a male gender identity. That is why they are trans guys.

So they're female.

 

[Lisa]

So they're female.

They are actually male, despite their female biology. The brain drives/controls the body, so their gender identity is superior in function and control to their biological gender. That is why trans people are treated medically the way that they are. John Money proved that our gender identity both exists and cannot be changed, so the medical community changes the trans peoples body, as much as current medical technology will allow to align with their psychological gender identity with both hormones and then surgery. It is far from perfect and there is much more to do when it becomes medically possibly but the current treatment gives the trans person significant relief from the discomfort from the gender dysphoria that they expeince because of their incongruent biolgial gender and gender idnetity.

 

[rahl]

They are actually male, despite their female biology.

Well, no. They're chromosomes determine their sex.

The brain drives/controls the body, so their gender identity is superior in function and control to their biological gender.

Again, no. Their chromosomes determine their sex. So, they are female.

That is why trans people are treated medically the way that they are. John Money proved that our gender identity both exists and cannot be changed, so the medical community changes the trans peoples body, as much as current medical technology will allow to align with their psychological gender identity with both hormones and then surgery. It is far from perfect and there is much more to do when it becomes medically possibly but the current treatment gives the trans person significant relief from the discomfort from the gender dysphoria that they expeince because of their incongruent biolgial gender and gender idnetity.

Gender identity is a psychological construct. Believing you are a woman, when your chromosomes clearly show you are a man, is by definition and clinical diagnosis a mental illness.

 

[Lisa]

Well, no. They're chromosomes determine their sex.

Again, no. Their chromosomes determine their sex. So, they are female.

Gender identity is a psychological construct. Believing you are a woman, when your chromosomes clearly show you are a man, is by definition and clinical diagnosis a mental illness.

Chromosomes only determine a persons biological gender(the gender of their body). Chromosomes do not determines a persons psychological gender identity, unless you want to try to deny that psychological gender identity does not exist or is not critical importance in human sexuality.

Being trans is not a mental illness. gender dysphoria, which results when that gender incongruence is not treated effectively and timely manner is a mental illness.

Human sexuality is not as simple as you appear to want to believe that it is.

 

[rahl]

Chromosomes only determine a persons biological gender(the gender of their body).

Which is backed by science.

Chromosomes do not determines a persons psychological gender identity, unless you want to try to deny that psychological gender identity does not exist or is not critical importance in human sexuality.

This is where we leave science and enter psychological constructs

Being trans is not a mental illness.

It is by definition and clinical diagnosis.

gender dysphoria, which results when that gender incongruence is not treated effectively and timely manner is a mental illness.

If you are one thing, and think you are something else, you are by definition and diagnosis, mentally ill

Human sexuality is not as simple as you appear to want to believe that it is.

I'm not talking about sexuality, and neither is the topic of this thread. I'm talking about biology.

 

[CLAX1911]

Agreed... The pro women should do a protest but I worry that some women's sports are hanging on by a thread in the first place and it might have negative consequences.

Most likely but having men participate only further injures it

 

[Phys251]

I will never understand the attitude that 99% of the athletes have to be punished to appease the 1%.

I will never understand the attitude that 99% of trans people have to be sacrificed so that 1% of them might not gain a possible advantage.

 

[vegas giants]

I will never understand the attitude that 99% of trans people have to be sacrificed so that 1% of them might not gain a possible advantage.

Why should ANYONE get a advantage?


Did Jackie Robinson get an advantage?

 

[Bodi]

I will never understand the attitude that 99% of trans people have to be sacrificed so that 1% of them might not gain a possible advantage.

Sacrificed? Are they being tossed into an active volcano somewhere?

 

[Phys251]

Why should ANYONE get a advantage?


Did Jackie Robinson get an advantage?

You deliberately left out the words "might" and "possible" in my post. Reread my post--the whole thing.

 

[Integrityrespec]

Some people identify as gender fluid - which means that their gender identity changes over time. They can be man one day, both the next, woman another day, agender another day, pangender another day, intergender (between genders), etc. etc.

So, ought a gender fluid athlete be competing in men's or women's leagues? Does it depend on whether at the time of a competition the person identifies as man or woman, or something else?

A trans person who was born "cisgender male," and who transitions to gender fluid, can they compete in the women's league and the men's league, if their gender fluidity includes both man and woman?

More crazy BS.

 

[Bodi]

Why should ANYONE get a advantage?


Did Jackie Robinson get an advantage?

Yes, he started playing against white people.

 

[Phys251]

Sacrificed? Are they being tossed into an active volcano somewhere?

Bodhisattva thinks that transphobic violence is funny.