Gender affirming Surgeries in DC on people under 16...

[Lisa]

The Myth of the "Desistance Myth"

Gender dysphoric children who are treated using a “watchful waiting” approach largely desist, no longer identify as transgender as adults, and accept their bodies as they are. Those who are subjected to medical intervention do not.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com

This new article isn’t the first one to question high rates of desistance. In 2016, transgender advocate Brynn Tannehill wrote in the Huffington Post about the “desistance myth,” attempting to discredit a dozen studies that demonstrate that a majority of children identifying as transgender cease do to so as they enter adulthood. Tannehill believes that desistance is a fiction “built upon bad statistics, bad science, homophobia and transphobia.” Yet Tannehill never defines these terms, nor does she validate these accusations with any proof.

There is nothing to support your claim that desistance is growing or that the numbers are more than 5%. The Swedish study has more statistical and academic errors than most It is not to be trusted. It has also never been reproduced.

In 2013, Steensma co-authored an oft-cited study that examined 127 adolescents, all of whom had displayed various levels of gender dysphoria as children. The researchers found that 80 of the children had desisted by the ages of 15 and 16. That works out to 63 percent of kids who basically stopped being transgender -- a lower rate than in previous studies, but still a majority.
Some clinicians criticize this study, however, on methodological grounds, because the researchers defined anyone who did not return to their clinic as desisting. Fifty-two of the children classified as desistors or their parents did send back questionnaires showing the subjects' present lack of gender dysphoria. But 28 neither responded nor could be tracked down.
“You can't do that in scientific studies,” Ehrensaft said. “You have to have your subjects in front of you and know who they are. You can't just assume somebody is in a category because you don't see them anymore.”
In addition, 38 of the 127 kids were originally designated “subthreshold” for gender identity disorder, meaning they did not fulfill all the criteria for meeting the official diagnosis.
This, according to Erica Anderson, a gender clinician at UCSF, makes the desistance findings even more suspect." [It] begs the question of whether these kids were actually divergent [in their gender identity] before the study selected them,” she said.
Steensma stands by the study’s methodology. But interestingly, he added that citing these findings as a measure of desistance is wrongheaded, because the study was never designed with that goal in mind.

The Controversial Research on 'Desistance' in Transgender Youth | KQED

For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority eventually ceased to identify as transgender. But some gender researchers say that research is faulty.

www.kqed.org

Were you forced or even coreced to transition as an adult?

.

 

[vegas giants]

There is nothing to support your claim that desistance is growing or that the numbers are more than 5%. The Swedish study has more statistical and academic errors than most It is not to be trusted. It has also never been reproduced.

The Controversial Research on 'Desistance' in Transgender Youth | KQED

For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority eventually ceased to identify as transgender. But some gender researchers say that research is faulty.

www.kqed.org

Were you forced or even coreced to transition as an adult?

.

Yet detransition exists

 

[Lisa]

Suicidal ideation has a treatment and it's not trans surgery

Gender identity that is ignored has significant long-term problems and one of them is an increased risk of suicide. The underlying gender dysphoria still must be treated plus the depression and anxiety that were created by ignoring it. There are consequences to ignoring gender dysphoria and gender dysphoria can not be treated otherwise. 1 hour a week with a psychologist and a fist full of psychotropics doesn't treat gender dysphoria. HRT has a significant effect for depression, as do supportive family and friends.

Yet detransition exists

The number is very small. This is the second time that I have posted this. This means that 95% were helped. Is it permissible to willfully harm the lives of 95% for a group of 5% that doesn't have a single unified cause for their transition? A 95% success rate in medicine is amazing.

For instance, in the UK a survey of 3398 attendees of a gender identity clinic found that just sixteen – about 0.47% – experienced transition-related regret. Of these, even fewer went on to actually detransition and become detransitioners.

In the US, a survey of nearly 28,000 people found that 8% of respondents reported some kind of detransition. Of this 8%, 62% per cent only did so temporarily due to societal, financial, or family pressures..

In Sweden, a fifty-year longitudinal study on a cohort of 767 transgender people found that around 2% of participants expressed regret following gender-affirming surgery, although it is unclear how many of these participants were detransitioning as a consequence.

In the Netherlands, a study of transgender young people found that only 1.9% of young people on puberty blockers did not want to continue with the medical transition.

Detransition Facts: Debunking Well Funded Misinformation

Anti-Gender Movements Received $186M from the Russian Federation. Detransition is complicated. How many people regret it?

www.gendergp.com

 

[vegas giants]

Gender identity that is ignored has significant long-term problems and one of them is an increased risk of sucuide. The underlying gender dysphoria still must be treated plus the depression and anxiety that were created by ignoring it. There are consequences to ignoring gender dysphoria and gender dysphoria can not be treated otherwise. 1 hour a week with a psychologist and a fist full of psychotropics doesn't treat gender dysphoria. HRT has a significant effect for depression, as do supportive family and friends.

Gender dysphoria surgery on a child that as a adult decides they never should have done that leaves them physically scarred for life

 

[vegas giants]

The number is very small. This is the second time that I have posted this. This means that 95% were helped. Is it permissible to willfully harm the lives of 95% for a group of 5% that doesn't have a single unified cause for their transition?

Detransition Facts: Debunking Well Funded Misinformation

Anti-Gender Movements Received $186M from the Russian Federation. Detransition is complicated. How many people regret it?

www.gendergp.com

The number of trans patients as a whole is small

You are saying 5% permanent physical scars are OK with you for those victims

 

[Lisa]

Gender dysphoria surgery on a child that as a adult decides they never should have done that leaves them physically scarred for life

You are using any other emotional strawman. They aren't doing surgery on pre-pubescent children. Those are later teens.

Did you see this previous reply?

“None of the people who were secretly recorded by this activist group deliver care to our patients,” hospital spokeswoman Ariana Ahmadi Perez said. We do not and have never performed gender-affirming hysterectomies for anyone under the age of 18.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2022/08/26/childrens-national-hospital-trans-hysterectomies/

 

[vegas giants]

You are using any other emotional strawman. They aren't doing surgery on pre-pubescent children. Those are later teens.

Did you see this previous reply?

A teen is a child. And it is a child deformed by surgery if they detransition

 

[Lisa]

The number of trans patients as a whole is small

You are saying 5% permanent physical scars are OK with you for those victims

If 95% are helped then you cannot make significant changes that would harm the 95%? Did you ever take a course in statistics? If your process has that amount of success then you make small incremental changes when there are unified problems that can be addressed without pushing the success rate backward. Many of these detrans' reasons border on being statistical fliers. There are no major flaws in the process.

A teen is a child. And it is a child deformed by surgery if they detransition

A 45-year-old is still a child of someone. Your semantic emotional games are noted.

 

[vegas giants]

If 95% are helped then you cannot make significant changes that would harm the 95%? Did you ever take a course in statistics? If your process has that amount of success then you make small incremental changes when there are unified problems that can be addressed without pushing the success rate backward. Many of these detrans' reasons border on being statistical fliers. There are no major flaws in the process.


A 45-year-old is still a child of someone. Your semantic emotional games are noted.

LEGALLY a teen is a child. We have no idea what the detransition rate will be if these surgeries become frequent


Detransition exists. These are children


Those are facts....not emotions

 

[Lisa]

LEGALLY a teen is a child. We have no idea what the detransition rate will be if these surgeries become frequent


Detransition exists. These are children


Those are facts....not emotions

And yet 95% don't detrans. What about the quality of their lives if you make significant changes to the treatment process? Why are they permissible to harm? You do realize that the process will never be 100%, don't you? Humans are too variable, as is our life experiences.

The survival/remission rate is just 5 years with many cancers is 60%. Do you also want to make major changes to that?

What is a cancer survival rate?​

Cancer survival rates or survival statistics tell you the percentage of people who survive a certain type of cancer for a specific amount of time. Cancer statistics often use an overall five-year survival rate.


Survival rates are usually given in percentages. For instance, the overall five-year survival rate for bladder cancer is 77 percent. That means that of all people who have bladder cancer, 77 of every 100 are living five years after diagnosis. Conversely, 23 out of every 100 are dead within five years of a bladder cancer diagnosis.



Cancer survival rates are based on research from information gathered on hundreds or thousands of people with a specific cancer. An overall survival rate includes people of all ages and health conditions who have been diagnosed with your cancer, including those diagnosed very early and those diagnosed very late.


Your doctor may be able to give you more specific statistics based on your stage of cancer. For instance, 60 percent of people diagnosed with early-stage lung cancer live for at least five years after diagnosis. The five-year survival rate for people diagnosed with late-stage lung cancer that has spread (metastasized) to other areas of the body is 6 percent.


Overall survival rates don't specify whether cancer survivors are still undergoing treatment at five years or if they've become cancer-free (achieved remission). Other types of survival rates that give more specific information include:

• Disease-free survival rate. This is the number of people who have no evidence of cancer after treatment.
• Progression-free survival rate. This is the number of people who have been treated for cancer and either have no signs of cancer recurrence or who have cancer that has remained stable without growing.

Cancer survival rates often use a five-year survival rate. That doesn't mean cancer can't recur beyond five years. Certain cancers can recur many years after first being found and treated. For some cancers, if it has not recurred by five years after initial diagnosis, the chance of a later recurrence is very small. Discuss your risk of a cancer recurrence with your doctor.

What cancer survival rates can (and can't) tell you

No one can predict the future, but cancer survival rates can give you an idea of your prognosis. Should you pay attention to them?

www.mayoclinic.org

Severe depression treatment is only 79% successful. That is considered to be very good.

In a double-blind controlled study, high doses of magnetic brain stimulation, given on an accelerated timeline and individually targeted, caused remission in 79% of trial participants with severe depression.

Experimental depression treatment is nearly 80% effective in controlled study

In a double-blind controlled study, high doses of magnetic brain stimulation, given on an accelerated timeline and individually targeted, caused remission in 79% of trial participants with severe depression.

med.stanford.edu

 

[vegas giants]

And yet 95% don't detrans. What about their lives if you make significant changes to the treatment process? Why are they permissible to harm?

I think asking them to wait a few years to become a adult ensures we have given them the ability to make a TRUE ADULT informed consent to this procedure

 

[Lisa]

I think asking them to wait a few years to become a adult ensures we have given them the ability to make a TRUE ADULT informed consent to this procedure

That waiting has significant risks but you don't have a problem with those risks. That action also has serious long-term quality of life issues but physical and emotional, but they don't matter to you apparently. Informed consent is usually limited to 16 or even 18. In Ohio, it is 18+ for informed consent HRT. That would mean 19-20 for surgery.

 

[vegas giants]

That waiting has significant risks but you don't have a problem with those risks. That also has a serious long-term quality of life issues but physical and emotional, but they don't matter to you apparently.

We can treat those risks. You don't care if some children get permanently deformed


They are collateral damage to you

 

[Lisa]

We can treat those risks. You don't care if some children get permanently deformed

How do you treat those risks when they could have been prevented? That is malpractice and professional misconduct. Every patient is evaluated and treated on a case-by-case basis.

They are collateral damage to you

How dare you accuse me of that! I have no say in the process. I want an apology.

 

[vegas giants]

How do you treat those risks when they could have been prevented? That is malpractice and professional misconduct.



How dare you accuse me of that! I have no say in the process. I want an apology.

What if a 5 year old wants the surgery and says they are suicidal if they don't get it?

Is it malpractice to deny them treatment?

Well I do have a say


I can vote

 

[buck]

There is nothing to support your claim that desistance is growing or that the numbers are more than 5%.

You previously posted a study that said the number of detransitioners were growing. I guess you forgot.

The number is very small. This is the second time that I have posted this. This means that 95% were helped. Is it permissible to willfully harm the lives of 95% for a group of 5% that doesn't have a single unified cause for their transition? A 95% success rate in medicine is amazing.

Detransition Facts: Debunking Well Funded Misinformation

Anti-Gender Movements Received $186M from the Russian Federation. Detransition is complicated. How many people regret it?

www.gendergp.com

You posted 3 items:

In the UK, their clinics were keeping shitty records and they failed to follow up with multiple individuals, as proven in the lawsuit and the cass review.

In the USTS survey, in order to participate you had to currently identify as transgender. A detransitioner would not identify as transgender and would have been entirely excluded from the survey.

Already addressed the concerns in Wiepjes above when talking of Bustos. No kids had surgery in that study, longer wait times / gatekeeping. Regret from surgery is not the entirety of the 'detransition' group.

 

[Lisa]

What if a 5 year old wants the surgery and says they are suicidal if they don't get it?

A 5-year-old is still 8+ years too young for HRT.

Is it malpractice to deny them treatment?

Well I do have a say


I can vote

Medical decisions are up for a politician to make. How is it that Drs and Ph.D. psychologists aren't qualified to make medical decisions but politicians with no training in medicine are somehow now experts? You don't want a professional You want someone who will rubber stamp your transphobic opinions on the lives of others.


I also vote.

 

[vegas giants]

A 5-year-old is still 8+ years too young for HRT.


Medical decions are upo for a poltican to make. How is it that Drs and Ph.D. psychologists aren't qualified to make medical decisions but politicians with no training in medicine are somehow now experts? You don't want a professional You want someone who will rubber stamp your transphobic opinions on the lives of others.

I also vote.

Genital surgery can be performed on a newborn

We ban the treatment of gay conversion therapy for good reason. That is politicians saying they don't care what some psychologists think


It's called protecting children

 

[Lisa]

Genital surgery can be performed on a newborn

Only in very rare cases and even for intersex infants is being banned. Are you somehow suggesting that GRS is done on infants?

We ban the treatment of gay conversion therapy for good reason. That is politicians saying they don't care what some psychologists think.

Gay conversion therapy doesn't work, just like reparative or affirmation therapy for trans people. That therapy is deadly.

It's called protecting children

It is very successful but you don't have a problem with harming the majority because you support transphobic ideas.

 

[vegas giants]

Only in very rare cases and even for intersex infants is being banned. Are you somehow suggesting that GRS is done on infants?


Gay conversion therapy doesn't work, just like reparative or affirmation therapy for trans people. That therapy is deadly.


It is very successful but you don't have a problem with harming the majority because you support transphobic ideas.

So it can get done on a 5 year old if they want it. Why deny them that treatment?


All you care about is your activism and if sone children need to be mutilated for that you are just fine with it


Call me transphobic again

 

[Lisa]

So it can get done on a 5 year old if they want it. Why deny them that treatment?

Nobody is going to do GRS in a 5-year-old. You made that claim but you can't support it.

All you care about is your activism and if sone children need to be mutilated for that you are just fine with it

I don't have any activism. This is a medical procedure. DSM-5, WPATH.

Call me transphobic again

Stop supporting transphobic ideas of delaying and denying care.

 

[vegas giants]

Nobody is going to do GRS in a 5-year-old. You made that claim but you can't support it.


I don't have any activism. This is a medical procedure. DSM-5, WPATH.

Stop supporting transphobic ideas of delaying and denying care.

So you want to deny treatment to that suicidal child. Hmmmmm


You do not care in the slightest about children......if your activism leads to victims that's just too bad for them

 

[buck]

How is it that Drs and Ph.D. psychologists aren't qualified to make medical decisions but politicians with no training in medicine are somehow now experts? You don't want a professional You want someone who will rubber stamp your transphobic opinions on the lives of others.

Professional medical organizations and the leading experts in the field / world in sweden, France, australia, finland and the uk are saying slow it down, there are issues. They don't count to you? Of course not, they're all just transphobes to you.

 

[Lisa]

So you want to deny treatment to that suicidal child. Hmmmmm

To a 5-year-old, Yes, Absolutely. Read WPATH. A 5-year-old can live in their desired gender but no hormones until after puberty starts. GRS surgery possibly at 17-18.

Introduction​

Gender Dysphoria, while being a new addition to DSM-5, is the new term for Gender Identity Disorder. In order to prevent stigma guarantee clinical care for people who perceive and believe they are a different sex than their designated gender, the new term was introduced (American Psychiatric Publishing, 2013). The DSM-5 diagnostic measures for gender dysphoria include tough and unrelenting cross-gender classification that go further than a need for an alleged cultural benefit.


Adults and teenagers may have a fixation with doing away of primary and secondary gender features, and have the thought that they are not being characterized by the right sex. One should realize that individuals, who have gender dysphoria, do not have a coexisting physical intersex situation. Noted pain or difficulty is seen in the work place, dealing with others, as well as in other vital areas of life. This is the defining factor of gender dysphoria (American Psychiatric Publishing, 2013). It is significant to state that gender dysphoria is frequently seen in children, though many children do not end up being adults with gender dysphoria (Canadian Psychological Association, 2013).


Psychological involvement may help patients with gender dysphoria. Individual therapy that pinpoints appreciating and handling gender problems should be central. In addition, involving the individual’s support group through family, group and marital therapy can offer a safe and secure environment. If needed, the use of hormone therapy may also prove beneficial.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

You do not care in the slightest about children......if your activism leads to victims that's just too bad for them

Your claim is absurd. I dare you to prove it has ever occurred.

Professional medical organizations and the leading experts in the field / world in sweden, France, australia, finland and the uk are saying slow it down, there are issues. They don't count to you? Of course not, they're all just transphobes to you.

The issues are very minor and nobody is being pushed.

 

[vegas giants]

To a 5-year-old, Yes, Absolutely. Read WPATH. A 5-year-old can live in their desired gender but no hormones until after puberty starts. GRS surgery possibly at 17-18.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9) - Therapedia

www.theravive.com

Your claim is absurd. I dare you to prove it has ever occurred.


The issues are very minor and nobody is being pushed.

Then some trans suicidal kids you don't really care about. They don't fit into your activism


It's fine if they too are collateral damage