• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gender affirming Surgeries in DC on people under 16...

buck said:
Many reasons. But, sure. Documented harm to an increasing number of deteansitioners.

In this case, I agree with finland, sweden, uk and French medical systems.
Click to expand...

Why do you believe that the 95%+ of those who are happy with their transition should not have gone through with it?
 
Phys251 said:
Why do you believe that the 95%+ of those who are happy with their transition should not have gone through with it?
Click to expand...
There is not one consistent reason for detransitioning so radical changes cannot be made to the protocols without harming far more than it helps but it seems that transphobes do not understand statistical process control, systems engineering, or even gender dysphoria.

I'm far from convinced that transphobes understand the difference between a person who is trans and a drag queen because they look the same on the outside. Nobody would ever make the farcical claim that drag queens are recruiting trans kids if they did understand. They certainly do not understand the problems that are created by delaying and denying care to trans teens until they are adults. Nobody else in medicine would ever say with a straight face "let's just watch and see what happens until they are 18 to a teen who has cancer or even depression at 12-13." Serious medical problems don't go away on their own.

Those who say that they should go to counseling but deny hormones obviously won't answer what kind of psychological counseling is to be used because it is obvious that they don't know. That psychological therapy is just a euphemism for gatekeeping or worse conversion therapy. Talk therapy is only half of the answer, but we are not supposed to know that.
 
www.thepublicdiscourse.com

The Myth of the "Desistance Myth"

Gender dysphoric children who are treated using a “watchful waiting” approach largely desist, no longer identify as transgender as adults, and accept their bodies as they are. Those who are subjected to medical intervention do not.
www.thepublicdiscourse.com www.thepublicdiscourse.com

This new article isn’t the first one to question high rates of desistance. In 2016, transgender advocate Brynn Tannehill wrote in the Huffington Post about the “desistance myth,” attempting to discredit a dozen studies that demonstrate that a majority of children identifying as transgender cease do to so as they enter adulthood. Tannehill believes that desistance is a fiction “built upon bad statistics, bad science, homophobia and transphobia.” Yet Tannehill never defines these terms, nor does she validate these accusations with any proof.
 
Phys251 said:
Why do you believe that the 95%+ of those who are happy with their transition should not have gone through with it?
Click to expand...

I assume you are talking of bustos? If so, many problems with that study (some of which the authors acknowledged),but lets start with the most relevant. The studies do not include kids that had surgeries, had very different cohorts then what is seen today and were largely completed when more gatekeeping existed (i.e. one of the studies had 1 year to HT and 3 years to gonadectomy).

BTW, the Bustos analysis further confirms that more females are seeking treatment than males, unlike in the past. Further undermining Turban's recent study. You best compartmentalize.
 
Last edited:
Renae said:
www.thepublicdiscourse.com

The Myth of the "Desistance Myth"

Gender dysphoric children who are treated using a “watchful waiting” approach largely desist, no longer identify as transgender as adults, and accept their bodies as they are. Those who are subjected to medical intervention do not.
www.thepublicdiscourse.com www.thepublicdiscourse.com

This new article isn’t the first one to question high rates of desistance. In 2016, transgender advocate Brynn Tannehill wrote in the Huffington Post about the “desistance myth,” attempting to discredit a dozen studies that demonstrate that a majority of children identifying as transgender cease do to so as they enter adulthood. Tannehill believes that desistance is a fiction “built upon bad statistics, bad science, homophobia and transphobia.” Yet Tannehill never defines these terms, nor does she validate these accusations with any proof.
Click to expand...

They did a reanalysis of the Steensma study following the critique of Tannehill and determined those that met the DSM diagnosis, 67% desisted. Those that were sub threshold desisted at 97%.. So, majorities still desisted and it's not just 'slightly gender non-conforming' as some like to claim.

and that doesnt account for the other 10 studies, some of which expressly had kids claiming they wanted to be the opposite sex and still desisted by the time of puberty. Now, those kids would have been put on blockers and medicalized further.
 
Last edited:
Renae said:
What absurdity made you think that was a valid response
Click to expand...
That seems to be your argument, that the government should ban gender affirming surgeries for anyone under 18. Is that not your argument?
 
buck said:
Many reasons. But, sure. Documented harm to an increasing number of deteansitioners.

In this case, I agree with finland, sweden, uk and French medical systems.
Click to expand...
Those are all fully socialized healthcare systems. It's quite possible they don't perform these surgeries on patients under 18 because they don't want to pay for them.
 
Lisa said:
There is not one consistent reason for detransitioning so radical changes cannot be made to the protocols without harming far more than it helps but it seems that transphobes do not understand statistical process control, systems engineering, or even gender dysphoria.

I'm far from convinced that transphobes understand the difference between a person who is trans and a drag queen because they look the same on the outside. Nobody would ever make the farcical claim that drag queens are recruiting trans kids if they did understand. They certainly do not understand the problems that are created by delaying and denying care to trans teens until they are adults. Nobody else in medicine would ever say with a straight face "let's just watch and see what happens until they are 18 to a teen who has cancer or even depression at 12-13." Serious medical problems don't go away on their own.

Those who say that they should go to counseling but deny hormones obviously won't answer what kind of psychological counseling is to be used because it is obvious that they don't know. That psychological therapy is just a euphemism for gatekeeping or worse conversion therapy. Talk therapy is only half of the answer, but we are not supposed to know that.
Click to expand...
Cancer is not trans and it is disingenuous to compare them
 
ALiberalModerate said:
Take a look at the members of a typical state legislature, these are often not our nation's best and brightest, that is that type of people you want making medical decisions?
Click to expand...
Like it or not they already do. But protecting children should be a top priority
 
ALiberalModerate said:
Take a look at the members of a typical state legislature, these are often not our nation's best and brightest, that is that type of people you want making medical decisions?
Click to expand...
By the way I also approve of a state legislature banning gay conversion therapy
 
ALiberalModerate said:
Those are all fully socialized healthcare systems. It's quite possible they don't perform these surgeries on patients under 18 because they don't want to pay for them.
Click to expand...

Nope. They used to be just fine with them. Based on what they are seeing, the lack of quality studies ,changed in cohorts, etc, they recently changed their policies. The announcements have been posted to these forums already.
 
ALiberalModerate said:
It's apples and oranges. Homosexuality isn't a medical disorder.
Click to expand...
Well it was at one time. The point being the state legislature should protect these children in both cases.
 
vegas giants said:
Well it was at one time. The point being the state legislature should protect these children in both cases.
Click to expand...

"Conversion therapy" is banned on trans kids in some states too - see CA.
 
vegas giants said:
As it should be
Click to expand...

Depends on what you define as conversion therapy. Some take it to mean no therapy at all. Just affirm.

But, that wasn't the point. I'm sure libmod thinks its good its banned (govt involvement)
 
Last edited:
vegas giants said:
Cancer is not trans and it is disingenuous to compare them
Click to expand...
Neither are choices and both are deadly if untreated.

buck said:
Depends on what you define as conversion therapy. Some take it to mean no therapy at all. Just affirm.

But, that wasn't the point. I'm sure libmod thinks its good its banned (govt involvement)
Click to expand...
Affirming their biological gender is trying to deny their gender identity. It is conversion therapy. It is completely ineffective because a person's gender identity cannot be changed. It's highly discouraged by mental health professionals and banned in many states. It isn't surprising that transphobes support this abuse. Apparently, their lives don't matter to you.


A large, first-of-its-kind study has found that transgender people who reported receiving so-called conversion therapy were more than twice as likely to have attempted suicide during their lifetime than their peers who had engaged in other types of therapy, NBC News reports. And for those who were younger than age 10 when they underwent attempts by practitioners to align their gender identity with their sex assigned at birth, the relative risk of attempted suicide was more than four times as great. The study, based on a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 transgender people, also found that conversion therapy survivors were 1.5 times more likely than peers who underwent other kinds of therapy to have experienced "severe psychological distress" in the month before the survey, researchers reported yesterday in JAMA Psychiatry. Another important finding: There was no significant difference in risk for people who reported receiving conversion therapy from religious advisers versus secular therapists.
Click to expand...

Science | AAAS

www.science.org www.science.org
 
Lisa said:
Neither are choices and both are deadly if untreated.
Click to expand...
No one dies from untreated gender dysphoria.


Suicide is a symptom of depression which may or may not be related to trans
 
vegas giants said:
No one dies from untreated gender dysphoria.


Suicide is a symptom of depression which may or may not be related to trans
Click to expand...
You may want to rethink that claim.

Conclusions​


Gender dysphoric patients are at significant risk for psychiatric comorbidities and suicidal ideation and attempts. It is crucial that primary care providers be aware of and diligently evaluate these risks, regardless of treatment status. A collaborative, multi-disciplinary approach can help care for this vulnerable population and avoid tragic outcomes.
Click to expand...
www.cureus.com

Gender Dysphoria and Suicidal Ideation: Clinical Observations from a Psychiatric Emergency Service

Adolescent gender dysphoria is increasingly common. There has been documentation of the association of gender dysphoria with numerous other psychiatric conditions as well as attempted and completed suicide. The literature is unsettled on specific risk factors for self-harm within this...
www.cureus.com www.cureus.com
 
Lisa said:
You may want to rethink that claim.

www.cureus.com

Gender Dysphoria and Suicidal Ideation: Clinical Observations from a Psychiatric Emergency Service

Adolescent gender dysphoria is increasingly common. There has been documentation of the association of gender dysphoria with numerous other psychiatric conditions as well as attempted and completed suicide. The literature is unsettled on specific risk factors for self-harm within this...
www.cureus.com www.cureus.com
Click to expand...
Suicidal ideation has a treatment and it's not trans surgery
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom