Gee, Joe. I don't think that's actually your dream to have.

[Zyphlin]

Can we stay in the context of the OP? Because the guy in the OP is speaking in the context of the real problems that the black community is currently dealing with.

And stating that the OP's source would be better applicable towards EVERYONE, not just "blacks", is staying within its context.

And YES, inner city areas like...well Detroit, inner city Kansas City, Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans etc.

Right. But the guy in the OP didn't state "I have a dream that all inner city young people will graduate from high school" he said "all black young people".

Earlier you talked about "staying in the context of the OP". So I ask you again. Are you saying that when you staet "Inner City Areas" you're actual meaning is "black people"?

 

[SheWolf]

Then the GOP needs to offer better solutions, but instead it looks like you just want to complain about negative, black stereotypes you're constantly promote.

But the Democrats have a reputation to consider.

I mean how long have they been making promises and using the victim narrative for the exclusive reason to shore up political support ?

Years....decades. And their policies have such abposotive effect on inner city areas.....of wait, no their policies have turned into a massive disaster.

 

[SheWolf]

I have a lot of black friends, and none of them blame white people for all their problems.

To bad black leaders don't share Joe's dream. They are to busy blaming the white man for their problems.

 

[GottaGo]

Can we stay in the context of the OP? Because the guy in the OP is speaking in the context of the real problems that the black community is currently dealing with.

Enough people have ignored these issues for long enough don't you think ? Offering up nonsense and justifications that are just a variation of what the majority of people on this thread have written.

And YES, inner city areas like...well Detroit, inner city Kansas City, Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans etc.

Someone decides to address these issues honestly and the result is for people to comein and marginalize his position.

Look, I realize the Democrats need these voters above all else, even above and beyond the welfare of their constituents, so they'll jump on anyone who doesn't use the victim narrative because he represents a threat.

Hell, what if these people woke up, what if they realized all of the promises were lies, and that they're worse off for listening to them ?

Those on the outside, who are not the actual people involved in the issues cited, can't do a whole lot to help. It has to, I repeat, HAS TO come from within them.

We can throw professionals with alphabet soup after their name at the problem, money by the billions, but until it starts getting addressed by the very people who are the problem, it's not going to get fixed.

No matter the degree of empathy, sympathy and understanding we (those who are not those addressed) may have, we will never completely understand the situation.

 

[Fenton]

That's the issue with things though. How one
makes a statement, and ones reputation, do play into how those statements are going to be taken. This is as true in terms of some random jackass with a blog trying to piggy back on the legacy of MLK to twist it into a "harp on blacks and make a political statement" message as it is even on this board. How many times have you seen someone make a comment "Well, if a LIBERAL thinks so and so politician is good then it's OBVIOUS he's a RINO" or something of the sort?

I don't agree with Cephus on much, but he's spot on in terms of some of those things listed. I would hope all parents would get chances to choose which school their kids go to, not just blacks.

I'd hope ALL boys and girls would grow up with a father. Is that an issue within the black community? Sure. Nearly 1 out of every 4 caucasion children ALSO grow up with only one parent. Is that not worthy ALSO "dreaming" changes if the MESSAGE was actually about kids without both parents rather than "Grrr Blacks!" with the father issue just being the ammo for the attack? Ditto for the 53% of native americans, 42% of Hispanics, and even 17% of asians. (Source)

Sure, it's a good message to say you dream of black men not shooting other black men. However, once again, when 84% of whites are killed by other whites wouldn't it be a more worth while dream if it was that young men stop shooting other young men regardless of race? That is, unless your purpose was to attack BLACKS specifically and this issue was just the ammo to do it.

The same goes with a number of these. Take the "high school" issue. Blacks have an 8% dropout rate. Then again, whites (5%) and Asians (4.2%) aren't far off and Hispanics (15.1) and Native Americans (12.4) are even more. SOURCE. Again, is the "message good"...or is the message poor because it's ACTUAL message isn't about high school or murders or parents, but about running down and degrading Blacks specifically?

No ones "degrading blacks". It's a insightful and honest description of the problems that run in black communities.

And " drop out rates " when teachers and administrators are changing test scores ( Atlanta ) isn' t a accurate measure of education.

 

[sangha]

I guess Joe Walsh doesn't want white people to stop doing those things, even though those things are done more often by white people

I wonder why Joe Walsh hates white people?

 

[Cephus]

Then the GOP needs to offer better solutions, but instead it looks like you just want to complain about negative, black stereotypes you're constantly promote.

These aren't stereotypes, they're borne out by study after study after study. These are the things that are actually happening in the poor black community!

 

[Fenton]

That's the issue with things though. How one
makes a statement, and ones reputation, do play into how those statements are going to be taken. This is as true in terms of some random jackass with a blog trying to piggy back on the legacy of MLK to twist it into a "harp on blacks and make a political statement" message as it is even on this board. How many times have you seen someone make a comment "Well, if a LIBERAL thinks so and so politician is good then it's OBVIOUS he's a RINO" or something of the sort?

I don't agree with Cephus on much, but he's spot on in terms of some of those things listed. I would hope all parents would get chances to choose which school their kids go to, not just blacks.

I'd hope ALL boys and girls would grow up with a father. Is that an issue within the black community? Sure. Nearly 1 out of every 4 caucasion children ALSO grow up with only one parent. Is that not worthy ALSO "dreaming" changes if the MESSAGE was actually about kids without both parents rather than "Grrr Blacks!" with the father issue just being the ammo for the attack? Ditto for the 53% of native americans, 42% of Hispanics, and even 17% of asians. (Source)

Sure, it's a good message to say you dream of black men not shooting other black men. However, once again, when 84% of whites are killed by other whites wouldn't it be a more worth while dream if it was that young men stop shooting other young men regardless of race? That is, unless your purpose was to attack BLACKS specifically and this issue was just the ammo to do it.

The same goes with a number of these. Take the "high school" issue. Blacks have an 8% dropout rate. Then again, whites (5%) and Asians (4.2%) aren't far off and Hispanics (15.1) and Native Americans (12.4) are even more. SOURCE. Again, is the "message good"...or is the message poor because it's ACTUAL message isn't about high school or murders or parents, but about running down and degrading Blacks specifically?

No ones "degrading blacks". It's a insightful and honest description of the problems that run in black communities.

And " drop out rates " when teachers and administrators are changing test scores ( Atlanta ) isn' t a accurate measure of education.

You should post per capita statistics.

It gives a more accurate and honest description of what the OP is refering to.

 

[Fenton]

And stating that the OP's source would be
better applicable towards EVERYONE, not just "blacks", is staying within its context.



Right. But the guy in the OP didn't state "I have a dream that all inner city young people will graduate from high school" he said "all black young people".

Earlier you talked about "staying in the context of the OP". So I ask you again. Are you saying that when you staet "Inner City Areas" you're actual meaning is "black people"?

Inner ciry areas that are comprised of blacks who are stuggling with the issues noted in the OP.

We can continue to ignore them I suppose, but a lot of good thats done.

They've been ignored long enough dont you think ?

 

[SheWolf]

Black voters aren't bought and sold with welfare. Yes, their votes are worth competing for in elections. Why don't you want the GOP to reach out?

Can we stay in the context of the OP? Because the guy in the OP is speaking in the context of the real problems that the black community is currently dealing with.

Enough people have ignored these issues for long enough don't you think ? Offering up nonsense and justifications that are just a variation of what the majority of people on this thread have written.

And YES, inner city areas like...well Detroit, inner city Kansas City, Atlanta, Chicago, New Orleans etc.

Someone decides to address these issues honestly and the result is for people to comein and marginalize his position.

Look, I realize the Democrats need these voters above all else, even above and beyond the welfare of their constituents, so they'll jump on anyone who doesn't use the victim narrative because he represents a threat.

Hell, what if these people woke up, what if they realized all of the promises were lies, and that they're worse off for listening to them ?

 

[Cephus]

Inner ciry areas that are comprised of blacks who are stuggling with the issues noted in the OP.

We can continue to ignore them I suppose, but a lot of good thats done.

They've been ignored long enough dont you think ?

And exactly how is Joe Walsh ignoring them by, I don't know... POINTING THEM OUT?!?!?!?

:roll:

 

[Zyphlin]

No ones "degrading blacks". It's a insightful and honest description of the problems that run in black communities.

And " drop out rates " when teachers and administrators are changing test scores ( Atlanta ) isn' t a accurate measure of education.

Is it a "problem" in your mind that 1/4 of all white kids are in single parent homes, or is that not problematic to you.

Is it problematic to you that 14% of Hispanics don't graduate high school, or not an issue for you.

Is the fact that over 80% of whites are killed by other whites a problem in your mind? Or a-ok?

And if all those are ALSO problematic to some degree then exactly why just focus your "dream" on blacks and blacks alone unless you SPECIFICALLY want to make blacks alone look to have "problems"?

 

[CanadaJohn]

That's the issue with things though. How one makes a statement, and ones reputation, do play into how those statements are going to be taken. This is as true in terms of some random jackass with a blog trying to piggy back on the legacy of MLK to twist it into a "harp on blacks and make a political statement" message as it is even on this board. How many times have you seen someone make a comment "Well, if a LIBERAL thinks so and so politician is good then it's OBVIOUS he's a RINO" or something of the sort?

I don't agree with Cephus on much, but he's spot on in terms of some of those things listed. I would hope all parents would get chances to choose which school their kids go to, not just blacks.

I'd hope ALL boys and girls would grow up with a father. Is that an issue within the black community? Sure. Nearly 1 out of every 4 caucasion children ALSO grow up with only one parent. Is that not worthy ALSO "dreaming" changes if the MESSAGE was actually about kids without both parents rather than "Grrr Blacks!" with the father issue just being the ammo for the attack? Ditto for the 53% of native americans, 42% of Hispanics, and even 17% of asians. (Source)

Sure, it's a good message to say you dream of black men not shooting other black men. However, once again, when 84% of whites are killed by other whites wouldn't it be a more worth while dream if it was that young men stop shooting other young men regardless of race? That is, unless your purpose was to attack BLACKS specifically and this issue was just the ammo to do it.

The same goes with a number of these. Take the "high school" issue. Blacks have an 8% dropout rate. Then again, whites (5%) and Asians (4.2%) aren't far off and Hispanics (15.1) and Native Americans (12.4) are even more. SOURCE. Again, is the "message good"...or is the message poor because it's ACTUAL message isn't about high school or murders or parents, but about running down and degrading Blacks specifically?

Well, I didn't take it the way you have, but that doesn't mean you're wrong nor does it mean I'm wrong.

Would people have been more accepting of the message if it had come from a black conservative, say Allen West? Do you believe that MLK's message was flawed because he was an adulterer? Can a white person only hope for better for troubled black youth if he/she lumps white youth into the message of hope?

If you believe that the message above is factually inaccurate in some way, that's fair - but you don't need to knock it because it doesn't speak to every ill facing every American or every group of Americans in today's society.

I don't know what Walsh's purpose or intent is here - many are speculating - but since I don't know, I choose to look only at the words and whether or not they have some value.

 

[Fenton]

I guess Joe Walsh doesn't want white people
to stop doing those things, even though those things are done more often by white people

I wonder why Joe Walsh hates white people?

Its really dishonest to make generic statements out of context.

How about posting per capita statistics. Don't want to take a chance on not posting relevent information do you ?

 

[sangha]

Its really dishonest to make generic statements out of context.

Then stop doing it

 

[Zyphlin]

Inner ciry areas that are comprised of blacks who are stuggling with the issues noted in the OP.

And comprised of whites, and Hispanics, and Asians.

Are you saying those races aren't in inner cities? Or that those races in the inner city don't suffer similar issues.

Also, not all blacks live in the inner city. If the ops "context was " inner city" then why say blacks instead if inner city.

So I ask you flatly again. If you say you speak about the context of the op, and the op just said black, and you keep saying Inner-city...does that mean you saying "inner city" is the same as saying "black"

 

[herenow1]

It's just another way of saying ''look at how much better ''we'' are compared to them'', look how civilized we are compared to them.....all while under the guise of pretending that they care about inner city problems.

 

[SgtRock]

I have a lot of black friends, and none of them blame white people for all their problems.

Black leaders blame white folk for black folks problems.

 

[VanceMack]

I have a dream that all black parents will have the right to choose where their kids attend school.
What...like Matt Damon? You want them to act all white and stuff? Oh...I get it...you want to steal their heritage!

I have a dream that all black boys and girls will grow up with a father.
Dont need no baby daddy or roll models. You got rappers and gangs...what more of a father do you need? Or are you just disparaging proud black queens, implying they cant handle their bizness?

I have a dream that young black men will stop shooting other young black men.
OK...thats a pretty ****ing good dream.

I have a dream that all young black men will say “no” to gangs and to drugs.
How else you expect a brother to get paid? Bump dat! So what if it means a virtual certainty he will end up behind bars...mans gotta eat and a homie has to put in work yo!

I have a dream that all black young people will graduate from high school.
Education? You want people to getting an education? Like some white man? Next thing you know you will want them to read, speak ENGLISH, BECOME QUALIFIED TO COMPETE FOR UPER MIDDLE INCOME JOBS. (CAPS LOCK ERROR...I AINT RETYPING)

I have a dream that young black men won’t become fathers until after they’re married and they have a job.
How else you going to show what kinda man you are? Gettin bitches pregnant and not taking care of them is what bein a MAN is all about. Besides...you might get a shot on the Maury Povitch show and that could kick off a rap career.

I have a dream that young unmarried black women will say “no” to young black men who want to have sex.
Who else will make them feel important and connected if they aint got a bunch of chirruns?

I have a dream that today’s black leadership will quit blaming racism and “the system” for what ails black America.
What? You expect them to actually expect black people to be responsible for themselves? Or worse...black community leaders to take that stand? I got news for you...that didnt work out so well for Jessie and Louis in the 90s...

I have a dream that black America will take responsibility for improving their own lives.
See above. That implies black people actally CAN and if they CAN then they dont need the race baiters, charlatans and hustlers.

I have a dream that one day black America will cease their dependency on the government plantation, which has enslaved them to lives of poverty, and instead depend on themselves, their families, their churches, and their communities.
OK...now you are just being silly.

 

[SheWolf]

I agree with all the points your making. I think Mr Walsh can easily been seen as exploiting black people, whilst smugly pretending that he cares.

I have seen a lot of concerning statistics about Native Americans, and how many people are pushing those statistics out as a social concern?

I just agree with you. I don't want to see any kids growing up in bad schools, gangs, and dropping out to raise children.

That's the issue with things though. How one makes a statement, and ones reputation, do play into how those statements are going to be taken. This is as true in terms of some random jackass with a blog trying to piggy back on the legacy of MLK to twist it into a "harp on blacks and make a political statement" message as it is even on this board. How many times have you seen someone make a comment "Well, if a LIBERAL thinks so and so politician is good then it's OBVIOUS he's a RINO" or something of the sort?

I don't agree with Cephus on much, but he's spot on in terms of some of those things listed. I would hope all parents would get chances to choose which school their kids go to, not just blacks.

I'd hope ALL boys and girls would grow up with a father. Is that an issue within the black community? Sure. Nearly 1 out of every 4 caucasion children ALSO grow up with only one parent. Is that not worthy ALSO "dreaming" changes if the MESSAGE was actually about kids without both parents rather than "Grrr Blacks!" with the father issue just being the ammo for the attack? Ditto for the 53% of native americans, 42% of Hispanics, and even 17% of asians. (Source)

Sure, it's a good message to say you dream of black men not shooting other black men. However, once again, when 84% of whites are killed by other whites wouldn't it be a more worth while dream if it was that young men stop shooting other young men regardless of race? That is, unless your purpose was to attack BLACKS specifically and this issue was just the ammo to do it.

The same goes with a number of these. Take the "high school" issue. Blacks have an 8% dropout rate. Then again, whites (5%) and Asians (4.2%) aren't far off and Hispanics (15.1) and Native Americans (12.4) are even more. SOURCE. Again, is the "message good"...or is the message poor because it's ACTUAL message isn't about high school or murders or parents, but about running down and degrading Blacks specifically?

 

[Cephus]

Is it a "problem" in your mind that 1/4 of all white kids are in single parent homes, or is that not problematic to you.

Of course it is, but it's a bigger problem that 78% of black kids grow up in a single parent home.

Is it problematic to you that 14% of Hispanics don't graduate high school, or not an issue for you.

Sure it is, but it's a bigger problem that in the inner cities, more than 50% of teens don't graduate high school, the majority of them black.

Is the fact that over 80% of whites are killed by other whites a problem in your mind? Or a-ok?

Absolutely. 94% of blacks are killed by other blacks. Isn't that an even bigger problem?

And if all those are ALSO problematic to some degree then exactly why just focus your "dream" on blacks and blacks alone unless you SPECIFICALLY want to make blacks alone look to have "problems"?

Just because whites and hispanics and asians are not specifically mentioned in the same breath with blacks every time doesn't mean that people are not equally concerned about everyone else. It's just that the problems in the black community, especially in these instances, tend to be much, much, much worse and they need to be addressed. Don't you go after the worst problems first? So why are you arguing we shouldn't?

 

[SheWolf]

We all know it's a fact. I am not denying it. It's ignorant of others to constantly assume we need to be told there are social concerns facing black Americans. And as we agreed, none of those issues are just black issues. MLK's dream is the American dream. We all want our kids to go to good schools, etc.

But if that's all somebody sees when they see black people, then that becomes an issue of that person as an individual.
And given this guy is a political, I would say he could do something about fixing school systems. That's why I think he looks more like a smug asshole.


You can take such a statistics and want to see and promote positive change, or you use those statistics and be smug ass about it and insult MLK's legacy.

First off, it's not an attack, it's the simple reality in many black communities and blacks like Bill Cosby and Don Lemon have been pointing it out for years. However, that's why I said that we ought to remove "black" from all of the statements and just have the same standards for everyone regardless of skin color.

 

[SheWolf]

I am on talk tap and.cant fix that post

 

[Cephus]

We all know it's a fact. I am not denying it. It's ignorant of others to constantly assume we need to be told there are social concerns facing black Americans. And as we agreed, none of those issues are just black issues. MLK's dream is the American dream. We all want our kids to go to good schools, etc.

Where the hell do you get the idea that we can't talk about any particular social ill unless we bring up every other conceivable social ill at the same time? That's like saying you can't bring up the issue of speeding in Spokane, Washington unless you also talk about speeding in every single other city on the planet at the same time. That's just downright stupid. No, those are not only problems in the black community, but the black community, at least on these specific issues, tends to have worse problems than everyone else. 78% of black households are single-parent households. No other racial group has anywhere near that kind of a problem. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. So why wouldn't we talk about the people with the biggest problems first and most and loudest? They need the most work!

You can take such a statistics and want to see and promote positive change, or you use those statistics and be smug ass about it and insult MLK's legacy.

Or you can just want to ignore clear and present problems because you're convinced that even acknowledging the scope of the issue constitutes racism. And that's absolutely idiotic.

 

[Zyphlin]

Cepheus. In general yes, but a few issues.

One, almost every stat that is poor for blacks is even worse for native Americans. So when you talk about the "worst first" that's a bit subjective.

Two, I think a lot comes off in terms of authenticity. Yes, one could point at race. For example, this kind of thing goes over better for Bill Cosby. But it's not just race. It's presentation. The person in the op massively begins to wrap purely political rhetoric and partisan talking points into the list, helping to further push the perception that this isn't an honest desire to "help" black people with these issues but simply a politically inspired hatchet job aimed at degrading the target while looking like their trying to help.

Style, history, context, full content, a lot goes into the presentation...correct or not...of a persons intent and purpose.

My posts were beginning off the trail of posts of Fenton disagreeing with your assertion that this "dream" would be even better applied to EVERYONE, not just blacks, and his seeming disagreement with that notion.

Is single parents a big issue in the black community and could/should be address? Sure. But it's not so nonexistent in other races that it'd be irrelevant, wrong, or bad to suggest that's a good dream for everyone