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GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in UK?

Should British Nationals Overseas have the right of abode in the UK?


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frederick666

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simple question: Do you think, the existing some 3.4 million of British nationals (Overseas) should be given back the right of abode in the United Kingdom? which right was ceased upon them through a series of amendments in the British Nationality Law dated back to the 60s till the 90s. It has been a long time since I was last here on d forum, my attitude has changed along with my age. but I still think its an obligation that the British government has to honour, to restore a basic human right - right to land - to its people.

UK Border Agency | Who is a British national (overseas)?

We were given this bizarre category of British nationality - BNO, abbreviation for British Nationals Overseas. I call it "Britain says NO". a British passport, for British nationals, who are also Commonwealth citizens, but not British citizens, WITH NO right of abode in the UK.

Gibraltarians, Falklanders, Bermudans have all been given the right to register as British Citizens (BC) which enables the right to live in the United Kingdom through the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, but this act explicitly states it DOESNT apply to the British nationals via connection with Hong Kong.

British Overseas Territories Act 2002

The British government in 2008 directed Lord Goldsmith QC to write an analytic report regarding British citizenships in response to House of Commons' request.
Here is what he says: dont bother to read it if you cant be arsed :D
"From discussions that I have had in Hong Kong, it is clear to me that the demand for BN(O) status is dropping. Nonetheless to remove this status without putting something significant in its place would be seen as the British reneging on their promise to the people of Hong Kong. The only option which would be characterized as fair would be to offer existing BN(O) holders the right to gain full British citizenship. It is likely that many would not take this up as the prospects economic and fiscal of moving to the UK are not favourable to those well-established in Hong Kong.However, I am advised that this would be a breach of the commitments made between China and the UK in the 1984 Joint Declaration on the future of Hong Kong, an international treaty between the two countries; and that to secure Chinese agreement to vary the terms of that treaty would not be possible. On that basis, I see no alternative but to preserve this one anomalous category of citizenship."

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Politics/documents/2008/03/11/citizenship-report-full.pdf

France, for example, does not categorise its overseas citizens into second classes. whether they are citizens of Reunion, which is 5700 miles away from mainland France in the southern tip of Africa, or some 9700 miles away in French Polynesia in the Pacific. They are ALL good auld French citizens.

so what are your thoughts? do you think its time the British government to right the wrong? or they should hand off those British overseas nationals? all comments are welcome, just would like to gather what you all think. cheers.
 
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Hatuey

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

.... You aren't given BNO status. You have to register for it.
 

frederick666

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

yeah I suppose, you are right. I remember me mom told me about the sweat and tears how she brought me the infant with d giant buggy to the Crown immigration department to register becoming British National Overseas. everybody born in Hong Kong before the Chinese takeover was a BDTC (British dependent territory citizen), if you didnt register to become a BNO, and also there was this British nationality scheme which enabled some 40 thousand families in Hong Kong to become full British citizens. auh jaysus my head is wrecked with all these British nationalities, wouldnt it be wise if there was only one? :lol:;)
 

Carjosse

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

yeah I suppose, you are right. I remember me mom told me about the sweat and tears how she brought me the infant with d giant buggy to the Crown immigration department to register becoming British National Overseas. everybody born in Hong Kong before the Chinese takeover was a BDTC (British dependent territory citizen), if you didnt register to become a BNO, and also there was this British nationality scheme which enabled some 40 thousand families in Hong Kong to become full British citizens. auh jaysus my head is wrecked with all these British nationalities, wouldnt it be wise if there was only one? :lol:;)

Hopefully Hong Kong gains it's freedom 2047 and is not stuck as part of China.
 

frederick666

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Hopefully Hong Kong gains it's freedom 2047 and is not stuck as part of China.

its game over for Hong Kong. Tens of thousands of wealthy Hongkongers flew abroad, the lucky ones who got full British citizenship went to Britain, some went to other Commonwealth countries primarily to Canada and Australia. the Chinese government will never give us universal suffrage which has been demanded for ages. the political democratic system has given way to the communist oppression. sigh.........its sad to see a wealthy, free, democratic civilised society falls into a hand of a red dictator regime. thats why I left too.
 

Carjosse

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

its game over for Hong Kong. Tens of thousands of wealthy Hongkongers flew abroad, the lucky ones who got full British citizenship went to Britain, some went to other Commonwealth countries primarily to Canada and Australia. the Chinese government will never give us universal suffrage which has been demanded for ages. the political democratic system has given way to the communist oppression. sigh.........its sad to see a wealthy, free, democratic civilised society falls into a hand of a red dictator regime. thats why I left too.

Considering how much change has happened in China in the last 30 years maybe by the time 2047 rolls around China might be open to independence negotiations. Hong Kong has the money to do it also what the hell are they going to do if they deny independence, invade it?
 

frederick666

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Considering how much change has happened in China in the last 30 years maybe by the time 2047 rolls around China might be open to independence negotiations.

Hong Kong, a perfect reflection of how fragile and vulnerable a democratic society is once fell under a red-blooded communist state.
 

Carjosse

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Hong Kong, a perfect reflection of how fragile and vulnerable a democratic society is once fell under a red-blooded communist state.

What will the Chinese do, invade it or what?
 

frederick666

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

suppression on the mind. they attempt every way they can to restrain and limit the tiny bit of freedom we have. People are afraid to voice our true thoughts. local businesses, media, governmental institutions, praising, justifying, kissing the arses off the Chinese government, making an impress hoping to make a few quid off this emerging economy......the list goes on and on, I recently went to Northern Ireland for a lovely holiday, and I sympathise the British loyalist community up there, I envy, I envy their dedication to fight for what their beliefs are and their national identity. only if the people of Hong Kong had the audacity of the Ulster people......
 

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Considering how much change has happened in China in the last 30 years maybe by the time 2047 rolls around China might be open to independence negotiations. Hong Kong has the money to do it also what the hell are they going to do if they deny independence, invade it?

Oh well, being thrown from a free society straight into a communist prison, left there for 16 years, 34 years to go, and after all that there MIGHT just be NEGOTIATIONS for a bail-out, it all sounds promising to you, huh? What about now? What about the people there now?

It is impossible that the three million people will land in Britain overnight - some of them might still feel they have a great life in Hong Kong - going yum-cha every morning and watching local TV soap operas every night - and perhaps happily ever after. But they should be given a lifeline when things go worse and their way of life and basic human rights are threatened and stolen by the communists, a violation of the Sino-British Joint Declaration of which Britain is a signatory.
 

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

What will the Chinese do, invade it or what?

It has already been invaded, by China's People's Liberation Army which is permanently stationed there, by non-HK mainland Chinese pregnant women who stay, legally (a loophole intentionally left open by the HK gov't under orders from the communists) and illegally to give birth to children who instantly become HK residents, and by millions of Chinese "tourists" who overcrowd the city to a point that it has seriously affected people's daily lives.

The HK gov't, apparently under orders and directions from the communists, is constantly fostering "Chinese national identity" and integration into their culture of rule of man and corruption. HK people do not identify with such national identity and culture. All of this, IMO, is a bloodless genocide.
 
A

alvin

Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Frankly speaking, the Chinese Communist Party is really terrible, destroying every aspect of Hong Kong. Legal system, education system .... terrible ...
 

Urethra Franklin

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

What's often ignored here is that this should be a two way street. Overseas territories were treated abysmally under Thatcher's amendments to the Nationality Act, and yes they should have the right of abode in the UK, but give reciprocal rights to UK mainlanders.

I know Brits who took ages and jumped through hoops to get permanent HK residency. Try obtaining the right to live on Pitcairn or Tristan da Cunha. Not easy. Pitcairn is virtually depopulated and is supposedly "encouraging" immigration which it will need to survive, but still pretty damn hard to settle there, even for a Brit.

The OP's example of France is a good one. Yes if you're from Martinique or Guiane you're French and you don't get a useless second class passport. And when French mainlanders want to go out there, they go, and it's "internal" travel.
 

Red_Dave

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

What will the Chinese do, invade it or what?

Or just turn off the water supply
 

shrubnose

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Hopefully Hong Kong gains it's freedom 2047 and is not stuck as part of China.




Better not hold your breath while you wait for that to happen.
 

APACHERAT

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Is Barack Obama still a British subject ?

I know that the Kenyan government recognises Obama's Kenyan citizenship.

Have no idea if Obama is still an Indonesian citizen ? But it could be why he canceled his trip to Indonesia, something to do with unpaid taxes.
 

Van Basten

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Is Barack Obama still a British subject ?

I know that the Kenyan government recognises Obama Kenyan citizenship.

Have no idea if Obama is still an Indonesian citizen ? But it could be why he canceled his trip to Indonesia, something to do with unpaid taxes.
Joke of the day?
 

shrubnose

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

It's not a joke, it's the Law of Nature aka "The Law of Nations."
>
"Son follows the condition of his father."
<




What if the father is a totally anonymous sperm donor?
 

APACHERAT

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

What if the father is a totally anonymous sperm donor?

I don't think Emer de Vattel even thought of that and neither the authors of the Fourteenth Amendment but todays libs ignore the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment.

That is an excellent question Shrub.
 

shrubnose

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

I don't think Emer de Vattel even thought of that and neither the authors of the Fourteenth Amendment but todays libs ignore the intent of the Fourteenth Amendment.

That is an excellent question Shrub
.




Who knows, it could have an effect on some future election in the USA.
 

APACHERAT

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

Who knows, it could have an effect on some future election in the USA.

There's more than a few activist judges who legislate from the bench to shop around for.
 

Van Basten

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in

It's not a joke, it's the Law of Nature aka "The Law of Nations."
>"Son follows the condition of his father."<

Oh boy.
 

APACHERAT

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Re: GBR - Do you think British Nationals (Overseas) should have the right of abode in



Upon independence from Great Britain, the United States "were bound to receive the law of nations, in its modern state of purity and refinement. Ware v. Hylton, 3 Dall. 199. 199, 281 (1796). In The Nereide, Justice Marshall stated that the “Court is bound by the law of nations, which is part of the law of the land.” 13 U.S. 388, 423 (1815). “The courts have always considered the law of nations to be part of the law of the United States.” M. J. Glennon, Constitutional Diplomacy (Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press 1990), at 245. There are numerous other authorities that state that the law of nations became the national law of the United States. Even William Blackstone recognized the importance of the law of nations which he considered "universal law" and the life blood of a nation wanting to be part of the "civilized world." 4 W. Blackstone, Commentaries on the Laws of England 67 (1769). Hence, the law of nations, when not codified into any Act of Congress, became the common law of the United States

Emmerich de Vattel: The Law of Nations

de Vattel: Of Our Native Country, and Several Things That Relate to It

U.S. Constitution

The Law of Nations as Constitutional Law by Anthony J. Bellia Jr., Bradford R. Clark :: SSRN

scholarship.law.gwu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1478&context...

Oh boy !
 
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