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Gaza flotilla captain: Activists prepared attack against IDF raid

donsutherland1

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Today, Haaretz reported:

The captain and first mate of the Mavi Marmara, the ship which led the Gaza flotilla raided by Israel Defense Forces special forces last week, had attempted to prevent premeditated violent clashes between activists and the Israeli military, evidence released Friday showed...

Asked whether or not he knew if the IHH activists were preparing a violent welcome to the IDF takeover, Tuval said that "they were preparing to violence against the soldiers: Yeah from what I was informed."

Gaza flotilla captain: Activists prepared attack against IDF raid - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

This interview furnishes additional insight into the incident concerning the Mavi Marmara, specifically that the violence against the IDF was planned in advance. It also bolsters the videos that have been widely disseminated showing that individuals on the ship initiated the violence.
 

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Well that for me puts the final nail in the coffin of those "activists" propaganda.
I do not think that there's even one person in this world who didn't hold anti-Israeli positions before the interception and buys into their claims.

Their own captain has just stated that there were plans to initiate violence before the soldiers have arrived, and that they were getting ready for an encounter cutting metal pipes and metal chains from the ship.
He has even told them to stop and has tried to interfere but unfortunately he couldn't.
 

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I do not think that there's even one person in this world who didn't hold anti-Israeli positions before the interception and buys into their claims.

.


No, but there are certainly many posters who are so virulently anti-Israel that they will just ignore this like they ignore the evidence of the unedited videos. Some even call themselves neutral on the issue by making disingenuous, grandstanding claims they haven't taken sides.
The proof of any person's bias lies in ther determination to avoid the truth in favor of their agenda.
 

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Premeditated action would not have came to fruition if the IDF did not board the ship.

Paul
 

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Premeditated action would not have came to fruition if the IDF did not board the ship.

Paul

As has already been discussed, Israel was well within its rights to board that ship. It is not their fault that they were attacked when doing so.
 

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Premeditated action would not have came to fruition if the IDF did not board the ship.

Paul

so you would've preferred israel to do what exactly?
allow foreign vessels to violate their laws?
fire upon the flotilla from their ships?
what solutions do you have?
 

gunner

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As has already been discussed, Israel was well within its rights to board that ship. It is not their fault that they were attacked when doing so.

Israel has total control over its actions. That's not to imply the 'right course of action' was followed.

Paul
 

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Israel has total control over its actions. That's not to imply the 'right course of action' was followed.

Paul

That's also not to apply that it is rational to blame the soldiers for being attacked during what should have been a peaceful and calm procedure.
 

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Today, Haaretz reported:



Gaza flotilla captain: Activists prepared attack against IDF raid - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

This interview furnishes additional insight into the incident concerning the Mavi Marmara, specifically that the violence against the IDF was planned in advance. It also bolsters the videos that have been widely disseminated showing that individuals on the ship initiated the violence.

Maybe, maybe not. It looks a bit like an interview under duress with leading questions to me. I also found it very difficult to hear.

We will get more of this side says this and that side says that.

The Guardian has got a new video smuggled out today by Lara Lee a New York documentary maker who was aboard the Mavi Marmara and managed to hide it on her person.

At one stage the captain of the boat can be heard over the public address system, saying: "Do not show resistance … They are using live ammunition … Be calm, be very calm." Gunshots can be heard.

The film includes footage of an Israeli inflatable boat carrying commandos, and troops can also be seen rappelling from a helicopter on to the Mavi Marmara. While they do so, two men on the Marmara can be seen using catapults aimed at the soldiers, who are high above them, although the projectiles they are firing cannot be ascertained.

At one point a passenger on the boat says to the camera: "[The activists] hold two soldiers down here, bleeding and wounded." One soldier can be seen being carried down the stairs of the vessel. In an interview with Democracy Now, Lee said the soldiers were injured in the commotion. "They got treatment by our passengers," she said.

A number of passengers are shown in the video receiving medical treatment for wounds, including one man being resuscitated. He does not appear to respond. At the end of the footage a woman can be heard shouting: "We have no guns here, we are civilians taking care of injured people. Don't use violence, we need help."

Lee described the attack as terrifying. "[The Israelis] came to kill," she said. "They wanted to take over the ship."

Gaza flotilla attack: activist releases new footage | World news | guardian.co.uk
 

gunner

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That's also not to apply that it is rational to blame the soldiers for being attacked during what should have been a peaceful and calm procedure.

I have maintained throughout, no blame rests with the soldiers on the ground. The 'blame' should be placed with the politicians/commanders who executed an avoidable shambolic mission.

Paul
 

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I have maintained throughout, no blame rests with the soldiers on the ground. The 'blame' should be placed with the politicians/commanders who executed an avoidable shambolic mission.

Paul

Such as the commanders and organizers of the flotilla no doubt?
 

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It looks a bit like an interview under duress with leading questions to me.

I think you've watched the wrong movie, it looks like a regular interview to me, and the captain looks completely calm and positive with his answers.
Adding this to the already released evidence, by both the IDF and the activists, this makes me 100% certain that the so-called activists were planning to attack the soldiers all along, and are hence to be blamed with the violence.
 

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Maybe, maybe not. It looks a bit like an interview under duress with leading questions to me. I also found it very difficult to hear.

We will get more of this side says this and that side says that.

The Guardian has got a new video smuggled out today by Lara Lee a New York documentary maker who was aboard the Mavi Marmara and managed to hide it on her person.



Gaza flotilla attack: activist releases new footage | World news | guardian.co.uk

Alexa,

So far, the ship's captain has not repudiated his interview. If he perceived duress in responding as he did, one would expect that he would swiftly seek to distance himself from his comments. That has yet to occur.

Also, I suspect that the number of those who deliberately planned and carried out the violence was only a percentage of the ship's overall number of passengers. There is little doubt that there were passengers on the ship who were not involved in any fashion with the violence. In additiona, there is the possibility that some of those innocent passengers may well have been caught in the midst of the violence e.g., hit by stray fire, etc.
 

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I have maintained throughout, no blame rests with the soldiers on the ground. The 'blame' should be placed with the politicians/commanders who executed an avoidable shambolic mission.

Paul

If you are against the order itself to stop the ship, it simply means you're against Israel checking what's coming into Gaza.
I do not think that the politicians can be blamed with the violence itself, I do not see any rational argument for blaming them with something that was completely the decision of the 'activists'.
However, am I understanding that you are against the violence caused by the 'activists'?
 

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Also, I suspect that the number of those who deliberately planned and carried out the violence was only a percentage of the ship's overall number of passengers. There is little doubt that there were passengers on the ship who were not involved in any fashion with the violence.

Israeli officials have been saying this for more than a week now.
 

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If you are against the order itself to stop the ship, it simply means you're against Israel checking what's coming into Gaza.
I do not think that the politicians can be blamed with the violence itself, I do not see any rational argument for blaming them with something that was completely the decision of the 'activists'.
However, am I understanding that you are against the violence caused by the 'activists'?

I am against the need to board a ship that clearly shows a 'hornets nest' awaits its uninvited boarders. How prepared the ship was, for confrontation is subjective. If, as you like to suggest great planning went into setting up an 'ambush' for the IDF then i say sack the planners.


Paul
 

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Alexa,

So far, the ship's captain has not repudiated his interview. If he perceived duress in responding as he did, one would expect that he would swiftly seek to distance himself from his comments. That has yet to occur.

To be honest as I said it was very difficult for me to hear what he said. Basically what I made out was that he found some people with some chains and metal bars and he threw them overboard and told them that this would only incite injuries. He was also speaking in a language which clearly was not his first and on many occasions he seemed to be being almost prompted to say what he said. He obviously was being instructed to say it to the camera. I am just going from cases we have had here with people with the police.

I think for me it is not really clear what he is saying. I did not hear that they decided to attack the troops. It may have been there, I will try again. I did not hear at what time they got these things together. Does this change the fact that people reported being fired on before anyone got on board. When I am less tired I will listen to it again and try and hear what he is saying a bit better.

As this has only come out today, it may be a bit early to hear if he has replied. People have said all kinds of things but not many are reported.

Also, I suspect that the number of those who deliberately planned and carried out the violence was only a percentage of the ship's overall number of passengers.

Well that is the bit I missed, that people were deliberately planning violence.


There is little doubt that there were passengers on the ship who were not involved in any fashion with the violence. In additiona, there is the possibility that some of those innocent passengers may well have been caught in the midst of the violence e.g., hit by stray fire, etc.

There is no question that most of the passengers on that boat were not involved in any violence. There are pictures in the video I gave of passengers helping wounded soldiers. There were 600 passengers on that ship from I think 40 countries and of many different occupations. There was also a lot of children on that boat I hear.
 
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I am against the need to board a ship that clearly shows a 'hornets nest' awaits its uninvited boarders.
1) No one knew that the ship would have a violent mob on it trying to harm the soldiers.
2) If that is indeed the case, you do not retreat, there's no sense in that - it only supplies more justification for the boardering.
How prepared the ship was, for confrontation is subjective. If, as you like to suggest great planning went into setting up an 'ambush' for the IDF then i say sack the planners.
So once more, are you against the activists' violence? You didn't answer that question.
 

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From today's edition of The Jerusalem Post, there is information that corroborates the previous statement by the flotilla's captain that some of the individuals had planned in advance to attack the IDF soldiers:

Eiland’s probe also found that shots were initially fired at the boarding commandos from weapons that the passengers likely had prepared before hand. The slug that was dislodged from the knee of one of the soldiers was of a different caliber than that which is used by the Navy.

http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=181182
 

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Eiland’s probe also found that shots were initially fired at the boarding commandos from weapons that the passengers likely had prepared before hand. The slug that was dislodged from the knee of one of the soldiers was of a different caliber than that which is used by the Navy.

So they did bring an assault rifle onto the ship after all.
At start I've backed that claim, then I've seen no backing for that claim from sources like YNET and the BBC, so I've stopped mentioning it.
Seems like the soldiers on board of the ship were correct, since that is what they've stated on the day of the incident, that they've spotted an assault rifle firing at their troops and took it down successfully without identifying the firing individual.
 

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Honestly, I'm not seeing anything particular here. It sounds like their actions were in response to Israeli ships arriving, though well before their ship was boarded, which is hardly unusual. Obviously there had been some preparation, but the question is why these people were preparing for violence. Is it because they suspected, potentially from comments by Israeli naval officers over the radio, that violence was going to be initiated against them or is were they part of some covert operation to give Israel some bad PR by getting Israeli soldiers to kill a few of them? Honestly, the former seems more plausible and meshes better with the actual events. The disorganized mob that greeted Israeli soldiers hardly seems like it was carefully thought out.
 
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