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Gaza blockade: Iran offers escort to next aid convoy

Wiseone

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Its just about chest thumping, thats what this whole thing was about from the beginning. If Iran wanted to start a World War there are certainly more productive and practical and smarter ways to do it than to bait Israel with another convoy.
 

RyrineaHaruno

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I kind of doubt we would get in too a world war over this at least I hope not anyway, BUT this will not end well if this does happen for future aid ships.
 
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washunut

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Its just about chest thumping, thats what this whole thing was about from the beginning. If Iran wanted to start a World War there are certainly more productive and practical and smarter ways to do it than to bait Israel with another convoy.
I think that what the convoy incident showed is that Israel is alone. Turkey has picked that up and thrown Israel to the side because they don't need them to curry favor with America. Iran is willing to test this concept as well. Send some soldiers or boats to mix it up with the Israelies. If America stands on the sidelines, then they can be sure that all bets are off and can have Hezbellah start a war this summer that will cover Israel in missles.
 

jujuman13

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I think that what the convoy incident showed is that Israel is alone. Turkey has picked that up and thrown Israel to the side because they don't need them to curry favor with America. Iran is willing to test this concept as well. Send some soldiers or boats to mix it up with the Israelies. If America stands on the sidelines, then they can be sure that all bets are off and can have Hezbellah start a war this summer that will cover Israel in missles.
If Israel is faced with the kind of force you are suggesting, then it may likely go nuclear. Israel will never succumb to Iranian/Hezbollah/Hamas, for them to do so would simply be like walking to the execution chambers all over again, believe me, no way will that happen.
 

washunut

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If Israel is faced with the kind of force you are suggesting, then it may likely go nuclear. Israel will never succumb to Iranian/Hezbollah/Hamas, for them to do so would simply be like walking to the execution chambers all over again, believe me, no way will that happen.
You may be right, what a terrible choice they will have to make.
 

rathi

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I suspect that the Iranians will escort the ships around in international waters, but leave when they enter Israeli waters. Israel will wait to intercept the boat until it comes within 12 miles and no incident will come of it. Iran hardly gives a damn about the Palestinians except as pawns, it is highly unlikely they would start a war just to protect them.
 

washunut

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I suspect that the Iranians will escort the ships around in international waters, but leave when they enter Israeli waters. Israel will wait to intercept the boat until it comes within 12 miles and no incident will come of it. Iran hardly gives a damn about the Palestinians except as pawns, it is highly unlikely they would start a war just to protect them.
Like in Iraq and Afghanistan they can have proven adept at being instigators bearing little cost and leaving. My sense is that they would like nothing better than to stir up another incident even if it means they have a few dead soldiers.

I would assume a boat could land in Gaza without hitting Israeli waters but I could be wrong about that.
 

alexa

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I suspect that the Iranians will escort the ships around in international waters, but leave when they enter Israeli waters. Israel will wait to intercept the boat until it comes within 12 miles and no incident will come of it. Iran hardly gives a damn about the Palestinians except as pawns, it is highly unlikely they would start a war just to protect them.
I will be surprised if they accept Iran's offer. Should they, my guess would go with yours.
 

ferrugem

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Israel is only an excuse for Iran to defy the western world, if they really going escort the convoy, Israel will never sit still..
Erdogan calimed for such words few days ago.. now he's sitting quiet.
 

Zyphlin

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Theoritically this could cause a huge thing; ultimately I figure it won't and it'll be a lot of bluster.
 

washunut

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Theoritically this could cause a huge thing; ultimately I figure it won't and it'll be a lot of bluster.
If Egypt is opening their border is there any more point of a blockade?
 

washunut

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Zyphlin

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If Egypt is opening their border is there any more point of a blockade?
Definitely.

One, Egypt choosing to do this means that if a time after this we start seeing increased rocket attacks flying into Israel and other such things that Israel can then put pressure on Egypt by showing a clear correlation between when Egypt opened its border and the increase in weapons attacks. While correlation doesn't necessarily prove causation, it can at times provide a fair bit of evidence. If Israel removed their blockade then the leverage in regards to Egypt would be gone because it could be just as possible that its not coming from that side of Gaza.

Two, the more openings there are the more avenues for things to come in allowing for the higher volume of entry. Conversely, the less openings the lower the volume that's able to come in at any given time.

Three, as a matter of Principle. Gaza has not made good on their end of things, continuing to be a danger to Israeli citizens. It sends a poor message to their countrymen and the world for them to remove the blockade simply because a publicity stunt that was a "damned if you do / damned if you don't" type of scenario occured and made Egypt weak kneed.

Those three just off the top of my head and I'm not even that well versed in the matter.
 

washunut

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Definitely.

One, Egypt choosing to do this means that if a time after this we start seeing increased rocket attacks flying into Israel and other such things that Israel can then put pressure on Egypt by showing a clear correlation between when Egypt opened its border and the increase in weapons attacks. While correlation doesn't necessarily prove causation, it can at times provide a fair bit of evidence. If Israel removed their blockade then the leverage in regards to Egypt would be gone because it could be just as possible that its not coming from that side of Gaza.

Two, the more openings there are the more avenues for things to come in allowing for the higher volume of entry. Conversely, the less openings the lower the volume that's able to come in at any given time.

Three, as a matter of Principle. Gaza has not made good on their end of things, continuing to be a danger to Israeli citizens. It sends a poor message to their countrymen and the world for them to remove the blockade simply because a publicity stunt that was a "damned if you do / damned if you don't" type of scenario occured and made Egypt weak kneed.

Those three just off the top of my head and I'm not even that well versed in the matter.
I do not necessarily disagree with you, but. When I was learning to drive my father taught me about being " dead right". That is someone coming at you going the wrong way on the highway, still veer away from them. Even though I had the right of way.

Not every action can be worthy of going to war over. Israel has not had America as such an unreliable ally since Carter. That has to be part of their calculus
 

Infinite Chaos

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Its just about chest thumping, thats what this whole thing was about from the beginning. If Iran wanted to start a World War there are certainly more productive and practical and smarter ways to do it than to bait Israel with another convoy.
Agreed, it's a stupid idea by the Iranians and it's simply posturing for the Arab world.

Besides, Hamas have already refused to allow (haven't seen any progress reports since) the aid from the last flotilla. I also highly doubt any of the western protestors who joined or backed the flotilla would do so again if Iran was involved.
 

Apocalypse

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I also highly doubt any of the western protestors who joined or backed the flotilla would do so again if Iran was involved.
Because violent Islamic lynchers don't get along with Iran.
 

Zyphlin

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I do not necessarily disagree with you, but. When I was learning to drive my father taught me about being " dead right". That is someone coming at you going the wrong way on the highway, still veer away from them. Even though I had the right of way.

Not every action can be worthy of going to war over. Israel has not had America as such an unreliable ally since Carter. That has to be part of their calculus
Here's the difference.

A car coming at you the wrong way on the highway is generally a one off experience with someone you don't know that is unlikely to repeat itself in a similar way. Its is not analogous to the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

You're absolutely right, if that happened on the road the quickest and most effecitve manner to deal with it would be to avoid it and likely be done with it for the most part. Its likely to sort it self out (someone going the wrong way is going to draw attention to cops) and staying on your course even though its right is going to cause you damage while veering would be a very short term deviation before getting right back on track.

What would be more appropriate of an analogy is if rather than this happenly randomly on the highway, almost everyday that you pull out of your main street of your neighborhood the same car is routinely coming down the wrong side of the street barreling after you. But that's not all. Occasionally rather than doing that they'll pull out in front of you. Another time they may just tailgate you forever on end, bumping your bumper even if you try to veer to let them around you, only passing once you fully stop and pull over. Another time they're just straddling the road, blocking it for 10 minutes. In a situation like this, simply going around it is going to be counter productive to your long term happiness and goals. Anytime you go anywhere you'll have to account for a lot of extra time in case this happens. Undoubtably you're bound to not react quick enoguh at some point or just have bad luck when pulling over and cause damage to your car. Without question is going to cause you a great deal of stress. And by just giving up and trying to avoid it every time its probably not just going to go away. That doesn't mean the only alternative is to plow head long into the guy. You call the authorities, you go to the guys house and talk to him, and you know if those didn't work you may end up coming to blows or sabatoging his car (something I wouldn't be shocked if you had kids and he's putting them at risk with his stupidity). You'd take other action to stop the continual law breaking against you.

The above would be far closer of a situation to what Israel is going through then the lone random person going the wrong way on the highway. The Blockade wasn't a response to a single "car going down the wrong side of the highway" and removing the blockade to "Swerve and avoid it" isn't going to get you anything but run off the road the next day, and the next day, and the next day.
 

mpg

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If Israel is faced with the kind of force you are suggesting, then it may likely go nuclear.
They wouldn't need to go nuclear. They'd just blow the Iranian ships out of the water with conventional weapons and without help from any other countries.
 

washunut

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Here's the difference.

A car coming at you the wrong way on the highway is generally a one off experience with someone you don't know that is unlikely to repeat itself in a similar way. Its is not analogous to the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

You're absolutely right, if that happened on the road the quickest and most effecitve manner to deal with it would be to avoid it and likely be done with it for the most part. Its likely to sort it self out (someone going the wrong way is going to draw attention to cops) and staying on your course even though its right is going to cause you damage while veering would be a very short term deviation before getting right back on track.

What would be more appropriate of an analogy is if rather than this happenly randomly on the highway, almost everyday that you pull out of your main street of your neighborhood the same car is routinely coming down the wrong side of the street barreling after you. But that's not all. Occasionally rather than doing that they'll pull out in front of you. Another time they may just tailgate you forever on end, bumping your bumper even if you try to veer to let them around you, only passing once you fully stop and pull over. Another time they're just straddling the road, blocking it for 10 minutes. In a situation like this, simply going around it is going to be counter productive to your long term happiness and goals. Anytime you go anywhere you'll have to account for a lot of extra time in case this happens. Undoubtably you're bound to not react quick enoguh at some point or just have bad luck when pulling over and cause damage to your car. Without question is going to cause you a great deal of stress. And by just giving up and trying to avoid it every time its probably not just going to go away. That doesn't mean the only alternative is to plow head long into the guy. You call the authorities, you go to the guys house and talk to him, and you know if those didn't work you may end up coming to blows or sabatoging his car (something I wouldn't be shocked if you had kids and he's putting them at risk with his stupidity). You'd take other action to stop the continual law breaking against you.

The above would be far closer of a situation to what Israel is going through then the lone random person going the wrong way on the highway. The Blockade wasn't a response to a single "car going down the wrong side of the highway" and removing the blockade to "Swerve and avoid it" isn't going to get you anything but run off the road the next day, and the next day, and the next day.
You raise a very good point. I do not even disagree with you except for the fact that Israel for all the noise is really a very small country. They are surrounded by people that want to kill them, and the rest of the pretty much does not care. America is somewhere in the middle. Id they can't even be assured of being resupplied in a war if attacked I am just saying that they need to be sure that there are no other options.
 
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