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Gay rights.

ghost

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I didnt really know where to put this, so Im putting it here. I have a debate coming up, and since I cant find any info on gay right. Im going to ask some people on here. What are some rights protecting gay people. Have gay people ever seriously hurt society? Oh and if anyone is wondering Im on the pro's of gay rights.
 
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The rights protecting them are more like benefits they get in society like health care, social security etc. and recognication from the goverment and tax breaks and what not, basically it puts gay marriages on the same level as straight ones. Gay people have hurt society as much as straigh people have, whether or not homosexuality is the cuase of their actions is debateable. Ive seen evidecne going both ways. Just keep in mind that Homosexuality was a mental illness till about the early-mid 1980's then they took it off the DOMI book. If you have any more specific questions I would be more then happy to answer them.
 

RubberDucky

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gays have rights??

Just kidding :D

Sorry I don't know enough about this subject myself. I'll ask my housemate (he's gay) and see if I can find out anything for ya.
 

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ghost said:
I didnt really know where to put this, so Im putting it here. I have a debate coming up, and since I cant find any info on gay right. Im going to ask some people on here. What are some rights protecting gay people. Have gay people ever seriously hurt society? Oh and if anyone is wondering Im on the pro's of gay rights.
There are not really any rights protecting homosexuals specifically, the same as there are no rights protecting heterosexuals specifically. They fall under the same national rights that every America citizen falls under and every global right every human falls under. The only difference is their sexual orientation.

Those that oppose homosexuals base every stance on what their religion teaches them so opposing homosexuals is religious in nature. So if America passes a law opposing homosexuals based on these religious opinions then there is no longer a separation of church and state and we might as well force every America citizen to convert to Christianity or burn them at the stake.

For some reason Christians like to think the act of marriage is Christian in nature so people should not be able to get married unless they are Christian or in a religion Christians acknowledge. Christians have no problem with Satanists marrying but if you are a peaceful, friendly homosexual then you better not even think about.
 

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Blizzard Warrior said:
Just keep in mind that Homosexuality was a mental illness till about the early-mid 1980's then they took it off the DOMI book. If you have any more specific questions I would be more then happy to answer them.
You fail to note that Homosexuality was written in as a mental-illness only a single time, it was in DSM-II: Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (the 2nd Edition), published in 1968. It was removed in 1972. The 3rd edition with the removal was not published until 1980 however.

Homosexuality is common throughout history. It was not untill the establishment of America and its colonies has homosexuality been thrown around as evil and wrong. It is however hard to prove this existance of homosexuality since there was not a term declaring such a sexual orientation before the 1800's.
 
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1. Actualy there ARE 'rights' for homosexuals but like i said before they are more like benefits, and goverment tax breaks et cetera.

2. Ok 2 things A. i know a few atheits that are anti-gay and although the majority of 'anti-gay' people are religious not all of them are. Now the funny part is this, if you say that if America bans gay marriage its violating the wall of seperation between church and state. because Christiantiy teaches agaisnt homosexuality. Now a few things. firslty in the con. and DOI there are no terms like 'seperation', 'church', and 'state'. secondly 80.2% of Americans are Christain so as a democracy I think that if the people are anti-gay then if they pass it by a 50%+ vote then thats just following democratic principles. now the pinicle of what i want to say is this: Murder is illegal in America AND "thou shall not kill" is found in the book of Exodus in the Bible. So your saying that since we passed a law that co existed with the bible we are forcing eveyone to belive in Christianty? Of course not just becuase people have religious convictions and want to do something about it doesnt mean that the goverment is obeying a religion, by obeying the people's will its ruling by popular vote, whether or not religion is the basis for peoples convictions are irrelevent and shouldnt be considered a problem. And burning people at the stake is unheard of in Christiantiy, and violates what the book of exodus says.

3. Chritians never created marriage, they belive God made it and in the new covenant (the church) Jesus institued the sacrament of marriage. Jewish, Greek, and Roman socieites had marriage but a lot diffrent then modern marriage, and rarely ever had homosexual marriage. Now hte reason Christains regard satanists marriage is that becuase its a union between a man and a women, although the marriage wouldnt be considered blessed or sacred it is still marriage in the govt's eyes, but Christians dont regard homo. marriages becuase homo. marriage ISNT marriage in God's eyes. I assume you are not a Christain becuase you lack a large amount of knowledge in Christain teaching and history, if you are i would like to know what denomination.

4. Yes it was written in but my point is that they wouldnt just write it in there would have to be some evidence to back it up. Murders have occured thoughout history and are common, war is common, expliotation is common, so just becuase someting is common in hisotry (and homosexualtiy isnt really that common) doesnt mean we should assume it being right, eithical, moral et cetera.
 

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Blizzard Warrior said:
2. Ok 2 things A. i know a few atheits that are anti-gay and although the majority of 'anti-gay' people are religious not all of them are. Now the funny part is this, if you say that if America bans gay marriage its violating the wall of seperation between church and state. because Christiantiy teaches agaisnt homosexuality. Now a few things. firslty in the con. and DOI there are no terms like 'seperation', 'church', and 'state'. secondly 80.2% of Americans are Christain so as a democracy I think that if the people are anti-gay then if they pass it by a 50%+ vote then thats just following democratic principles. now the pinicle of what i want to say is this: Murder is illegal in America AND "thou shall not kill" is found in the book of Exodus in the Bible. So your saying that since we passed a law that co existed with the bible we are forcing eveyone to belive in Christianty? Of course not just becuase people have religious convictions and want to do something about it doesnt mean that the goverment is obeying a religion, by obeying the people's will its ruling by popular vote, whether or not religion is the basis for peoples convictions are irrelevent and shouldnt be considered a problem. And burning people at the stake is unheard of in Christiantiy, and violates what the book of exodus says.
A non-religious person being "anti-gay" is a rare thing. Atheism in general teaches the mindset of "to each his own" so one of them being anti-gay I would have to wonder if the thought of homo-sexuality stings a little deeper then just a discussion or debate with that person. You cannot compare killing another human with a person’s sexuality. Murder is found across all cultures, religions, and races as wrong, homosexuality is not.

I agree that if the popular vote passed that "homosexuality should be banned" then it should be banned. No such vote will ever pass though, the same as abortion would never be legalized through a popular vote. The only way homosexuality will be banned is by direct decree from a governing authority, bypassing the people.

Burning at the stake is in Christian history. The early Christian martyrs were burnt at the stake by the Romans. Look up "The Burning Times" in Google to read about Christians burning people at the stake.


3. Chritians never created marriage, they belive God made it and in the new covenant (the church) Jesus institued the sacrament of marriage. Jewish, Greek, and Roman socieites had marriage but a lot diffrent then modern marriage, and rarely ever had homosexual marriage. Now hte reason Christains regard satanists marriage is that becuase its a union between a man and a women, although the marriage wouldnt be considered blessed or sacred it is still marriage in the govt's eyes, but Christians dont regard homo. marriages becuase homo. marriage ISNT marriage in God's eyes. I assume you are not a Christain becuase you lack a large amount of knowledge in Christain teaching and history, if you are i would like to know what denomination.
Of course God created marriage. What Christianity did for marriage was say that is must be monogamous and that only an appointed religious leader could bless the marriage. The problem here is this went outside of the Christian faith when America was created. The government is taking the definition of marriage from the Christian bible. Christians allow other religions to be recognized as long as Christianity itself recognizes that religion as an established religion. So really Christianity has the say if other religions can or cannot be married in America. As long as the religions beliefs towards marriage do not contradict Christianity there are no problems.

Yes it was written in but my point is that they wouldnt just write it in there would have to be some evidence to back it up. Murders have occured thoughout history and are common, war is common, expliotation is common, so just becuase someting is common in hisotry (and homosexualtiy isnt really that common) doesnt mean we should assume it being right, eithical, moral et cetera.
If it makes someone happy, gives them love, and does not hurt a single person how can homosexuality be classified as immoral? Being ethical is moot as every attempt to ban homosexuality is shot down by society.
 

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Instead of looking for gay rights, look at rights guaranteed by the Constitution.
 
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1. I am not sure what you mean by murder is found wrong across all races? I mean diffrent races that believe diffrent things useually belong to a certain culture group. Anyway so almost all mainstream relgions find homosexuality wrong, and most cultures world wide havent really recognized rights to homosexuay marriages, and a few relgions including islamic fundamentalists believe in many forms of murder, and ceratin cultures and barbaric tribes have nothing agaisnt murder.

2. I am not sure how you can say Gay Marriage will never be banned by popular vote, at least not according to my polls. but im a bit confused at what your saying here " No such vote will ever pass though, the same as abortion would never be legalized through a popular vote. The only way homosexuality will be banned is by direct decree from a governing authority, bypassing the people." do u mean illegalized? or are you saying that abortion was banned by a direct decree from the governing authority bypassing the peoples will?

3. Burning at the stake IS in Christain history, the Christians were the ones being burned...not burning people, and if these so called Christains were buring people they cant call themselves Christains and their actions are not theologically justified. So those Christians your talking about clearly arnt true Christians, especially since they violate one of the 10 commandments blatantly.

4. Your statment about what Christianity did to marriage is quite confusing, and I want to point a problem in literally every sentence, so I was wondering if you could reword in one post and try to tell me what your saying, sorry its prolly just me not following along, but yea.

5A. Murder makes certain people happy, love is subjective and can be ahchieved in many varoius forms, and it hurts society becuae it is a dangeroius social experiment on the family, and would increase the overall cost of the goverment issueing marriage certifcates and all the benefits that come along with it.

B. porn is classified as immoral, and yet it doesnt nessacarily hurt people, and it makes people happy along w/ a false sense of love.

C. Umm 2 questions, how many states have officially legalized gay marriage VIA popular vote? and how many states ahve officaily banned gay marriage VIA popular vote?
 

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Currently, homosexuals are not afforded any protected status in our legal system though it is becoming more common for public policy to include sexual orientation in non-discrimination agreements. For now, there is no reason to offer protected status to homosexuals as there are for people of different ethnic backgrounds, for example. With more and more evidence for the genetic causation for homosexuality, this may have to change. As it stands, the reasons for not offering a protected status are mostly in the fundamental christian assertion that being gay is a choice. Scientific evidence is proving this to be a false claim.
 
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I have seen fundamental Christains go both ways on whether or not homosexuality is a choice or not, and primarily since there isnt really any hard biblical statements saying it is or isnt a choice. But the point still remains for them that it is sinful and wrong, and if you use the 'if im born with it, it cant be wrong cuase why would God create me this way if he said it was wrong' People are born as compulsive stealers, and others are born a bit mainiac with a love for killing. However there are clinics where you can go to get your sexual orientation reversed, and it has been done. Also the church believes in supernatural intervention from God who can help people cope, and overcome their sexual onientation through prayer, healing, et cetera. But I have seen circumstances where no matter what people try they still remain homosexual, and then if they live "holy" lives regardless of that God would still give them a chance, becuase we are all born with sin, Jesus died to forgive our sins, and with God's grace they wont go to hell for being homosexual, that wouldnt be very merciful of God.

So you really have to look at both sides of the Fundamental Christains, they condemn homosexuality as wrong, but really want to help, love, and care for them in a compassiante way, unforutanly the media tends to ignore the latter, and portray the prior.
 

Gibberish

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Sorry for the late response.
Blizzard Warrior said:
1. I am not sure what you mean by murder is found wrong across all races? I mean diffrent races that believe diffrent things useually belong to a certain culture group. Anyway so almost all mainstream relgions find homosexuality wrong, and most cultures world wide havent really recognized rights to homosexuay marriages, and a few relgions including islamic fundamentalists believe in many forms of murder, and ceratin cultures and barbaric tribes have nothing agaisnt murder.
What I meant to say was murder is seen as wrong and immoral across all societes, homosexuality is not. Conservative Christians and conservative Islam both view homosexuality as a crime or sickness. To declare that most major religions view homosexuality as wrong is a false statement. Buddisam, forms of Judisam and the Anglician Church see no difference in a persons sexual prefrence.

Yes certain cultures see murder of fellow humans as a none issue. These cultures usually are also responsible for execution of homosexuals also. An example would be medieval Christianity, and conservative Islamics such as the Taliban.

2. I am not sure how you can say Gay Marriage will never be banned by popular vote, at least not according to my polls. but im a bit confused at what your saying here " No such vote will ever pass though, the same as abortion would never be legalized through a popular vote. The only way homosexuality will be banned is by direct decree from a governing authority, bypassing the people." do u mean illegalized? or are you saying that abortion was banned by a direct decree from the governing authority bypassing the peoples will?
Homosexuality will never be "banned" or made "illegal". The only way it will be banned is if an authority makes it so , bypassing the people. Which would be illegal.

Majority of Americans do not see any problem with people being homosexual. Though the majority, as of now, does not want them to beable to be married by the church.

3. Burning at the stake IS in Christain history, the Christians were the ones being burned...not burning people, and if these so called Christains were buring people they cant call themselves Christains and their actions are not theologically justified. So those Christians your talking about clearly arnt true Christians, especially since they violate one of the 10 commandments blatantly.
Many religious people do things that contradict their religions teachings. Christians did burn and hang so called "witches" in the 1600-1800. All religions/cultures have violence in their history, christianity is not only in this. Debating this issue in this topic is really pointless as it adds nothing to the debate on homosexuality.

4. Your statment about what Christianity did to marriage is quite confusing, and I want to point a problem in literally every sentence, so I was wondering if you could reword in one post and try to tell me what your saying, sorry its prolly just me not following along, but yea.
I really don't see what is hard to understand about my post on this.

5A. Murder makes certain people happy, love is subjective and can be ahchieved in many varoius forms, and it hurts society becuae it is a dangeroius social experiment on the family, and would increase the overall cost of the goverment issueing marriage certifcates and all the benefits that come along with it.
So not allowing homosexuals to become marriage is a financial issue and not religious? Celibacy is also dangerous to the family. I still fail to see your point in comparing homosexuals to murderers.

B. porn is classified as immoral, and yet it doesnt nessacarily hurt people, and it makes people happy along w/ a false sense of love.
Porn is pure lust. This is known and accepted. Homosexuality is not lust. You can find a "false sense of love" in relationships throughout all sexual orientations.

C. Umm 2 questions, how many states have officially legalized gay marriage VIA popular vote? and how many states ahve officaily banned gay marriage VIA popular vote?
Only the state of Massachusetts recognizes same-sex marriages. California, Connecticut, D.C, Hawaii, Maine, New Jersey and Vermont grant same-sex unions a similar legal status to those in a civil marriage by domestic partnership, civil union or reciprocal beneficiary laws.

http://hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section...Management/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=19449
 

Gibberish

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Blizzard Warrior said:
So you really have to look at both sides of the Fundamental Christains, they condemn homosexuality as wrong, but really want to help, love, and care for them in a compassiante way, unforutanly the media tends to ignore the latter, and portray the prior.
They are compassiantie yes. Some not all, wish to help these homosexuals face their evil ways and follow the light towards accepting Jesus and leaving behind their sin of homosexuality.

These are the christians I disagree with.
 
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Sorry for the late response.
Quote:
np
What I meant to say was murder is seen as wrong and immoral across all societes, homosexuality is not. Conservative Christians and conservative Islam both view homosexuality as a crime or sickness. To declare that most major religions view homosexuality as wrong is a false statement. Buddisam, forms of Judisam and the Anglician Church see no difference in a persons sexual prefrence.

Yes certain cultures see murder of fellow humans as a none issue. These cultures usually are also responsible for execution of homosexuals also. An example would be medieval Christianity, and conservative Islamics such as the Taliban.
Quote:
More or less, yes but religion has been a large factor in banning murder in all its forms. Conservative Christian is basically mainstream Christian, and Conservative Islam includes basically all of Islam other then the small neo sects. Orthodox Judaism finds it wrong, and the Anglican church is but one of the many protestant denominations never mind the large the Catholic church. You give one religion (Buddhism) and small liberal sects of other world religions, I So my broad generalization I would say is truth not false.
Homosexuality will never be "banned" or made "illegal". The only way it will be banned is if an authority makes it so , bypassing the people. Which would be illegal.

Majority of Americans do not see any problem with people being homosexual. Though the majority, as of now, does not want them to be able to be married by the church.
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The authority meaning government which is a republic voting primarily on the peoples will contrary to what you state. Then again there’s a lot of careful word choosing that we have to do, there’s civil unions, there marriage, there’s homosexuality (the sexual orientation) there homosexuality (the action of) there homosexuality (in church ordained marriages). Look at these polls http://www.pollingreport.com/civil.htm and as you see that as of June 2005 people were general a bit more negative towards gay rights in many of these fields then positive.
Many religious people do things that contradict their religions teachings. Christians did burn and hang so called "witches" in the 1600-1800. All religions/cultures have violence in their history, Christianity is not only in this. Debating this issue in this topic is really pointless as it adds nothing to the debate on homosexuality.
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Not all Christians are perfect as the Roman Catholic prayer goes “we pray for the forgiveness of sinners world wide, sinners in the universal church, within my own home, and own family, including myself, Amen” however in America it was the puritans that had the witch trial, a small sect of neo-Protestantism. Also there isn’t any theological justification of burning witches from a evangelical/fundamentalist point of view.
I really don't see what is hard to understand about my post on this.
Quote:
Yes, Christianity created the institution of marriage as we know it, and therefore would be against non-marriages being suddenly accepted because homosexual isn’t an acceptable orientation for marriage. America was founded by Christians, and you had to be Christian to help draft the constitution of the US. A marriage done by any other religion is recognized by the government. But Christians consider the marriage in the name of Christ to be ‘greater’ then a marriage in the name of Allah or whoever. Also we ban murder, and that was banned when the first Christians came here, based on the Bible. So now are you saying that we are establishing Christianity as a religion because we have many principles that are in common with the Christian faith? ALSO I am sorry that there are so many laws passed that favor Christianity and not what you believe, and I am sorry that those laws were passed by the majority because the majority are Christians. Right now about 80% of American are Christian, back in the day the number was extremely high.
So not allowing homosexuals to become marriage is a financial issue and not religious? Celibacy is also dangerous to the family. I still fail to see your point in comparing homosexuals to murderers.
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It is both; it is a financial issue, as well as a social one, family one, religious one et cetera. Explain to me how abstinence is dangerous to the family please? In the point of wrongness, they are similar, not in the actions of what they do.
Porn is pure lust. This is known and accepted. Homosexuality is not lust. You can find a "false sense of love" in relationships throughout all sexual orientations.
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Yes you can, but don’t you see that when people can’t find love in heterosexual environments they often become bi or homo, and then back to hetero, and people switch of the course of a lifetime.

Only the state of Massachusetts recognizes same-sex marriages. California, Connecticut, D.C, Hawaii, Maine, New Jersey and Vermont grant same-sex unions a similar legal status to those in a civil marriage by domestic partnership, civil union or reciprocal beneficiary laws.

Same sex-unions aren’t the same as actually marriage, realistically it might be, however in an idealistic situation were still putting hetero above homo, and 19 states have banned gay marriage flat out.
 
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