Game of Thrones Mafia: Sabotage on Blackwater Bay!

[Fisher]

Do you know anything about the book or characters? You seem to be plowing blindly on with ignorant BS.

So we have had diversion, misrepresentation, avoidance, and defensiveness from you with no seeming interest in gathering any information whatsoever or in sharing any information or in formulating a town strategy. Someone has just jumped ahead of butterscotch pudding on my list.

 

[Thorgasm]

I'm checking out YourStar checking in.

 

[ecofarm]

Here are my guesses on factions:



1. Those Loyal to Joffrey Baratheon (the incestuous child of the Queen (Lannister) and her brother Jamie)
Joffrey (presumably, though he could be with the Queen, see below)
Tyrion (Savior of the City)
Sandor Clegane (Kingsguard)
Ser Balon Swann (Kingsguard)
Ser Jacelyn Bywater (some kind of commander of the city guard)
Littlefinger (went to recruit Tyrells)
Tywin Lannister (the patriarch of Lannister, lead arriving force just in time to save the day, right flank)
Mace Tyrell (lead the arriving force, left)
Randyll Tarly (lead the arriving force, center)
Ser Garlan Tyrell (vanguard of the arriving force - wore Renly's armor creating the myth of "Renly's shade")
This group is probably town, being the defenders and the most numerous.


2. Those loyal to Stannis Baratheon (the bastard child of King Robert, but blood related to him unlike the Queen's children with her (twin) brother.
Stannis
Ser Guyard Morrigen (vanguard)
Ser Rolland Storm (conducted rearguard during retreat, allowing ~2000k warriors and Stannis to escape)
Ser Imry Florent (commander of the invading fleet, proceeded recklessly into the trap)
This group could be Mafia or a third party faction)


3. Those loyal to the Queen (we'll call them Clittorians, as there is no official designation for the Queen and their cronies)
The Queen
Ser Mandon Moore (Tyrion's sworn shield, attempted to kill him when Tyrion lead a sortie against the boats that managed to make landfall)
Grand Maester Pycelle (doesn't appear at the battle, but was giving information from Tyrion to the Queen via the small council)
This group could be the Mafia or a third party faction.


4. "Others" (the creatures beyond The Wall)
They are rumored to be creatures that cause victims to become undead (zombies/wights)
This could be a solo player, an SK or a group and thus the Mafia.


For other names of those involved, see this link (from the OP), especially "Honors and Rewards"

 

[ecofarm]

I see one mistake in my post above. The website has "Lord Tywin Lannister, proclaimed "Savior of the City", but I gave title to Tyrion. I didn't read the book, just the source website provided. There are probably other (likely trivial) errors, but I think the gist of the possible factions is clear enough.

 

[Fisher]

I guess the questions are: are the two factions both town for the purpose of the game; and would the win condition be that town wins when scum/SK is gone as my role PM was less than crystal clear on the WC as far as factions go and eco has now alleged a 4th faction which would seem mathematically stretching it if there are 4 groups in it for themselves with only 14 players.

 

[Fisher]

Just to be clear on my last post, I am town in a manner inconsistent with Eco's offered faction analysis.

 

[ecofarm]

eco has now alleged a 4th faction which would seem mathematically stretching it if there are 4 groups in it for themselves with only 14 players.

If we were to attempt the possibility of 4 factions, I would guess:

1. Those loyal to Joffrey, including the arriving armies of Tywin and Tyrell (8)
2. Those loyal to Stannis (3)
3. Those loyal to the Queen, who tries to kill Tyrion via Ser Moore (2)
4. "Other" the creature that makes undead (1)

Of them, (3.) appears the least likely faction present except to note that (4.) "Others" have no part in the Battle of Blackwater nor even (except for a hand delivered that had rotted?) the book Clash of Kings.

The OP says there is another faction beside those loyal to Joffrey and Stannis. Those two (3. and 4.) are the only alternative groups/people/creature(s) that I am able to envision given my limited knowledge of the book and battle.

 

[Fisher]

I am not prepared to reveal my alliance until I know whether or not there are two town factions and whether or not they have a vested interest in going at each other. I believe there is a lone wolf and mafia and town.

While my character doesn't seem to appear much in the "Clash of blah blah", I appear to be aligned with the Clittorians by way of Tyrion.

Here are my guesses on factions:



1. Those Loyal to Joffrey Baratheon (the incestuous child of the Queen (Lannister) and her brother Jamie)
Joffrey (presumably, though he could be with the Queen, see below)
Tyrion (Savior of the City)
Sandor Clegane (Kingsguard)
Ser Balon Swann (Kingsguard)
Ser Jacelyn Bywater (some kind of commander of the city guard)
Littlefinger (went to recruit Tyrells)
Tywin Lannister (the patriarch of Lannister, lead arriving force just in time to save the day, right flank)
Mace Tyrell (lead the arriving force, left)
Randyll Tarly (lead the arriving force, center)
Ser Garlan Tyrell (vanguard of the arriving force - wore Renly's armor creating the myth of "Renly's shade")
This group is probably town, being the defenders and the most numerous.


2. Those loyal to Stannis Baratheon (the bastard child of King Robert, but blood related to him unlike the Queen's children with her (twin) brother.
Stannis
Ser Guyard Morrigen (vanguard)
Ser Rolland Storm (conducted rearguard during retreat, allowing ~2000k warriors and Stannis to escape)
Ser Imry Florent (commander of the invading fleet, proceeded recklessly into the trap)
This group could be Mafia or a third party faction)


3. Those loyal to the Queen (we'll call them Clittorians, as there is no official designation for the Queen and their cronies)
The Queen
Ser Mandon Moore (Tyrion's sworn shield, attempted to kill him when Tyrion lead a sortie against the boats that managed to make landfall)
Grand Maester Pycelle (doesn't appear at the battle, but was giving information from Tyrion to the Queen via the small council)
This group could be the Mafia or a third party faction.


4. "Others" (the creatures beyond The Wall)
They are rumored to be creatures that cause victims to become undead (zombies/wights)
This could be a solo player, an SK or a group and thus the Mafia.


For other names of those involved, see this link (from the OP), especially "Honors and Rewards"

If we were to attempt the possibility of 4 factions, I would guess:

1. Those loyal to Joffrey, including the arriving armies of Tywin and Tyrell (8)
2. Those loyal to Stannis (3)
3. Those loyal to the Queen, who tries to kill Tyrion via Ser Moore (2)
4. "Other" the creature that makes undead (1)

Of them, (3.) appears the least likely faction present except to note that (4.) "Others" have no part in the Battle of Blackwater nor even (except for a hand delivered that had rotted?) the book Clash of Kings.

The OP says there is another faction beside those loyal to Joffrey and Stannis. Those two (3. and 4.) are the only alternative groups/people/creature(s) that I am able to envision given my limited knowledge of the book and battle.

My role is town and is inconsistent with Eco's analysis so I ask everyone to compare their role PM to his analysis and we can discuss it further.

Based on the two games I have been part of, Mafia is always way outnumbered on Day 1. Since Eco has put himself in the minority group via the highlighted portions above and has incorrectly interpreted based upon my role PM, he would seem to be confessing to being scum to me. My feeling is that he is misrepresenting how many scum there are since I think Star Wars had fewer players and more scum. So, is Eco falling on his sword to set up a sleeper? What power could Eco have as scum or a lone wolf that could be used against town that would warrant positioning himself in the open to illicit a vote?

If he were the traditional Jester role his lynch would win the game for him so town could never win, but I don't know that Pasch would do that. So I am asking other town who are more experienced at the game to share any insight they may have as to different anti-town roles where it would be advantageous to put yourself in the open the way Eco seems to be doing.

 

[ecofarm]

Since Eco has put himself in the minority group via the highlighted portions above and has incorrectly interpreted based upon my role PM, he would seem to be confessing to being scum to me.

You are incorrect and have failed to interpret my hints. I am not a 'Clittorian'. I am town, as revealed by Tyrion.

My feeling is that he is misrepresenting how many scum there are since I think Star Wars had fewer players and more scum. So, is Eco falling on his sword to set up a sleeper? What power could Eco have as scum or a lone wolf that could be used against town that would warrant positioning himself in the open to illicit a vote?

This is all based on the incorrect conclusion that I am a member of the Clittorians, and that based on your limited knowledge of the book and battle.

If he were the traditional Jester role his lynch would win the game for him so town could never win, but I don't know that Pasch would do that. So I am asking other town who are more experienced at the game to share any insight they may have as to different anti-town roles where it would be advantageous to put yourself in the open the way Eco seems to be doing.

Again, all based on an incorrect assumption.


I find it strange how you announced your intention to claim I am a third party, SK or scum, based on nothing and then proceeded to do exactly that based on nothing. I find your attempt to pigeon-hole me, based on faulty interpretation of hint, to be scum-like.

Do you honestly think that a third faction member would claim to be such (in the first posts of Day 1) and then explain how their team fits into the picture? Nonsense.

 

[Fisher]

You are incorrect and have failed to interpret my hints. I am not a 'Clittorian'. I am town, as revealed by Tyrion.



This is all based on the incorrect conclusion that I am a member of the Clittorians, and that based on your limited knowledge of the book and battle.



Again, all based on an incorrect assumption.


I find it strange how you announced your intention to claim I am a third party, SK or scum, based on nothing and then proceeded to do exactly that based on nothing. I find your attempt to pigeon-hole me, based on faulty interpretation of hint, to be scum-like.

Do you honestly think that a third faction member would claim to be such (in the first posts of Day 1) and then explain how their team fits into the picture? Nonsense.

Yes because if they do not have talk, they need to have a way to organize themselves; and for the later, no, but you have not done that.

You are the one who made up a fictional alignment, claimed to be part of that alignment, and then speculated publicly as to their size and affiliation, not me. When I googled your made up alignment and the name of the franchise there was a sum total of two posts in all of the internet, being duplicates of somebody talking about things having nothing to do with the franchise and or mafia. Trying to hide in plain sight is hardly new--it is what I did in Pac Man as a town PR.

Now the other town members can look at their role PM's compare it to your post, and decide for themselves why exactly you chose to publicly put yourself in the minority group that is most certainly anti-town.

***damn milk and eggs-- you just got knocked from the two top spots on the list*****

 

[ecofarm]

Anyway, I spent hours reading about the battle, the book Clash of Kings, most of the characters and some of the surrounding books to get context and understand who was who. I then spent effort constructing posts that I feel are chock-full of hints, information and ideas.

Fisher has decided to try to turn all that against me (and against town) by madly attacking the person trying the hardest. After I had given hints, info and guesses about factions, he claimed that I had not. When I elaborated, as I suggested earlier (listing the names with the factions), he only went more nuts. What I find perhaps most strange is that he announced his intentions to accuse me and then went right ahead and did it based on nothing.



So, has anyone figured out how Tucker's post could be an attempt to distance himself from Fisher?

 

[The Mark]

These load issues with the forum are screwing with my attempts to read my PM again to be sure, but I finally got through...

Anyways...

*snip for brevity*

It would appear that the character description in my role PM matches one of the entries in ecofarm's list.

 

[ecofarm]

Speculation:

Perhaps the Queen and even Ser Moore (he tried to kill Tyrion but still might be loyal to Joffrey) are town and there are 3 Stannis loyalists and 2 Others. If so, I would guess Stannis has a chat channel (Mason - MafiaWiki) but does not have a night kill (being a third faction and not actually Mafia) and each of the Others (SKs that can generate teammates) get a kill attempt that will turn the target to their team if successful.

The turning of players (town and third faction) into Others is kinda meh because their eyes glow and that precludes them blending in (with the possible exception of Robert Strong).

 

[The Mark]

I don't think others are in this game. But that's just a guess.

 

[ecofarm]

I don't think others are in this game. But that's just a guess.

Then what faction, beside Stannis, could be a third party or Mafia?

 

[The Mark]

Then what faction, beside Stannis, could be a third party or Mafia?

Do we need more than one third party?

 

[ecofarm]

Do we need more than one third party?

Players are not only divided by the normal factions (town, mafia, third party), but also by various allegiances of the characters. Those loyal to King Joffrey are obviously one faction, as are the invaders led by King Sannis, but other factions exist as well. These factions will play a crucial role in determining who controls the Iron Throne.

So what other faction could be in the scenario? I see no reason to separate Tywin or the Tyrells from the city defenders. The only other factions I can see are the Queen and Ser Moore (presuming she was behind the assassination attempt); they may be attempting to kill Tyrion. And, of course, the "Others". But I've already explained my speculation on all of this. What idea do you have regarding the third (and perhaps fourth) group?

I could be simply: Joffrey loyalists are town, Sannis loyalists are Mafia and there is a minor faction (like the Queen and her conspirators... or what).

 

[The Mark]

So what other faction could be in the scenario? I see no reason to separate Tywin or the Tyrells from the city defenders. The only other factions I can see are the Queen and Ser Moore (presuming she was behind the assassination attempt); they may be attempting to kill Tyrion. And, of course, the "Others". But I've already explained my speculation on all of this. What idea do you have regarding the third (and perhaps fourth) group?

I could be simply: Joffrey loyalists are town, Sannis loyalists are Mafia and there is a minor faction (like the Queen and her conspirators... or what).

I'm not sure about this, but I always kinda considered Tyrion his own faction. I'd have to re-read the series to refresh myself to be sure.

 

[ecofarm]

.

Hey, new guy, how about reading the thread real quick and posting a comment. If you're not familiar with the theme, please read the link provided in the OP.

 

[Fisher]

These load issues with the forum are screwing with my attempts to read my PM again to be sure, but I finally got through...

Anyways...


It would appear that the character description in my role PM matches one of the entries in ecofarm's list.

Without revealing your role, I ask assuming you are town based on the sheer probability of it, is your role's alignment what eco says it is in terms of town? My role is town per my role PM and that is not exactly how Eco assumes it to be which raises the question are the two possible town factions a single team for the purpose of the game or are they adverse to each other.

 

[ecofarm]

I'm not sure about this, but I always kinda considered Tyrion his own faction. I'd have to re-read the series to refresh myself to be sure.

I think being familiar with the link (the page about the battle) provided in the OP should suffice. Tyrion may have been his own faction, in the extent of wanting the throne, but he did not conspire against any Lannister (that I've seen via that website) except to test for the leak to the Queen. He appears to have tried in earnest to get Jamie out of prison, for the Queen's blessing as Acting Hand.

 

[Fisher]

So what other faction could be in the scenario? I see no reason to separate Tywin or the Tyrells from the city defenders. The only other factions I can see are the Queen and Ser Moore (presuming she was behind the assassination attempt); they may be attempting to kill Tyrion. And, of course, the "Others". But I've already explained my speculation on all of this. What idea do you have regarding the third (and perhaps fourth) group?

I could be simply: Joffrey loyalists are town, Sannis loyalists are Mafia and there is a minor faction (like the Queen and her conspirators... or what).

........except you are wrong about that.

 

[ecofarm]

Without revealing your role, I ask assuming you are town based on the sheer probability of it, is your role's alignment what eco says it is in terms of town? My role is town per my role PM and that is not exactly how Eco assumes it to be which raises the question are the two possible town factions a single team for the purpose of the game or are they adverse to each other.

I presume a side faction would know who they are, and what (additional?) win requirements they have. The only side faction I see is the Queen and Ser Moore trying to kill Tyrion during the battle. Other than that, what do you see as a possible side-faction?

 

[ecofarm]

........except you are wrong about that.

Fine, then what other group could be a side-faction/third-party (but not Mafia and probably with a chat channel). "Others"? The OP specifies that, I quote again:

Players are not only divided by the normal factions (town, mafia, third party), but also by various allegiances of the characters. Those loyal to King Joffrey are obviously one faction, as are the invaders led by King Sannis, but other factions exist as well. These factions will play a crucial role in determining who controls the Iron Throne.

I'll presume one other faction (though two is possible). This faction need not be exclusive to Town or Mafia, and may be represented by a consortium of characters (even from Town and Mafia) (presumably with chat).

What's the third group? We dunno and given that we've nothing to go on I'm not sure it's worth the effort to figure out. I guess at some point a member of a side-faction will die and we will then be aware of its existence (and if they are Masons).

 

[The Mark]

Without revealing your role, I ask assuming you are town based on the sheer probability of it, is your role's alignment what eco says it is in terms of town? My role is town per my role PM and that is not exactly how Eco assumes it to be which raises the question are the two possible town factions a single team for the purpose of the game or are they adverse to each other.

My role PM matches Eco's list exactly. That's what I meant by my previous post, too.