Gadhafi: Islam taking over Europe

[ProudAmerican]

There's plenty in the OT and Jesus said he was not here to break the rules. Now the balls in your court. Show where Jesus said we no longer have to follow the OT.

huh? by being CRUCIFIED everything changed. when that happened, man was no longer beneath God. In that single moment, man became ONE with God.

IMO, before Christ died, man had every reason to actually fear God. I dont believe that is the case now.

So, I suppose in short I cant give you what you ask for. I guess we are even.



btw, give me some passages even in the old testament that tell believers to kill all non believers if they will not convert.

and I mean in plain language.....where I dont have to use my imagination.....like the quran does.

 

[Kelzie]

huh? by being CRUCIFIED everything changed. when that happened, man was no longer beneath God. In that single moment, man became ONE with God.

IMO, before Christ died, man had every reason to actually fear God. I dont believe that is the case now.

So, I suppose in short I cant give you what you ask for. I guess we are even.



btw, give me some passages even in the old testament that tell believers to kill all non believers if they will not convert.

and I mean in plain language.....where I dont have to use my imagination.....like the quran does.

"He who sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed" Exodus 22:20

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people" Exodus 31:14

There's dozens and dozens more. This is a fun site to browse. Makes me wonder why anyone would worship the Christian god:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

 

[ProudAmerican]

There's dozens and dozens more. This is a fun site to browse. Makes me wonder why anyone would worship the Christian god:

not at all.

He sacrificed his only son so none of those things would matter anymore.

 

[Kelzie]

not at all.

He sacrificed his only son so none of those things would matter anymore.

Prove it. Point out where it says in the bible that the OT doesn't matter anymore.

And really, I'm not so impressed with the whole sacrificial son thing. Big deal, anybody would do it, given the circumstances.

 

[doughgirl]

“There haven't been that many Islamic acts of terrorism in America. The abortion bombings are done here, not on a place most people can't point out on a map.”

More lives were taken on 9-11... by that single act of terrorism then all the abortion bombings together.

How many people have died because of acts of terrorism in abortion? Not many.

There have been acts however of terrorism on America on and off our soil.

As Americans we have been targeted all over the world.

I guess you forgot all the acts perpetrated against us in the past by islam.

http://www.geocities.com/islampencereleri3/islamic_concept_of_peace.htm

• Osama bin Laden, one of the Islamic world's leading terrorists was behind the bombing of the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. Twelve Americans were killed and there were hundreds of other deaths due to the bombings.

• On February 26, 1993, Muslim terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in New York City, killing 6 people and injuring over 1000 more.

• In Jan. 1993, a Pakistani Muslim shot and killed several CIA employees outside of the CIA headquarters. He fled to Pakistan. Later he was apprehended and returned to America for trial. The day after he was found guilty, Pakistanis in Pakistan murdered four American businessmen - probably as revenge for our judicial system finding their comrade guilty.

• On November 4th, 1979, Muslims in Iran took many American Embassy employees hostage. There were held for 444 days. Some died in captivity. They were released around the time Ronald Reagan became president.

“Hezbollah pioneered the use of suicide bombers in the Middle East, and was linked to the 1983 bombing and subsequent deaths of 241 U.S. marines in Beirut, Lebanon, as well as multiple kidnappings of U.S. and Western civilians and government officials.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/target/etc/modern.html

“From 1981 through 2000 there have been more than 9,000 Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide (excluding violence in Palestine) an average of 460 attacks per year.”

Fast Facts On Islam, by John Ankerberg

Oh this sounds like a peaceful religion doesn’t it?

“As for justification of violence in the NT, there are several. One would be Jesus driving the moneychangers from the Temple and his dark prophecy:

"Do not think that I have come to being peace on earth; I have come not to bring peace, but a sword." (Mt 10:34).”

You obviously do not understand this passage. And you should have included the many verses that followed for it to make sense.

In this passage Jesus was not encouraging disobedience to parents or conflict at home. He was showing that His presence demands a decision. and it does. Because some will follow Christ and some won’t, conflict will inevitably arise. As we each stand up for Him in our different ways, our different morals, goals, and purposes will set us apart from others. Commitment to god is even more important then they are. God should be your first priority. To take up the cross and to follow Christ means to publically identify with Him and certainly to experience opposition and for some to even face suffering and death for His sake. And many have faced the sword who have stood up for Christ.

“There are many places in the Koran that promote peace, just like the bible. However, evil men can always find ways to justify their actions, Islamic or Christian.”

So you have read both the holy books? The Koran and the Hadiths?

Koran 47:1:,3,5
8:60, 3:15, 2:19,8:12, 33:26, 59:2
Are these verses are peaceful?


Its funny that some people who hate Christians and Christianity give Islam a free pass. They think Christianity is so inclusive…….IMO that only shows their ignorance of the religion of Islam. Of both faiths really.
They don’t know that hadith after hadith recounts in explicit detail how jihad is to be carried out.

Ibn Khaldun said, “In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the Muslim mission and the obligation to convert everybody BY PERSUASION of by force.”

The Koran teaches that “the true religion with god is Islam” that salvation is achieved only through SUBMISSION to the teaching of Allah. Salvation in Islam REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH.

So unless you’re a Muslim you are going to Hell.

Why do you give it the thumbs up?

“The numbers of abortions in the US are completely irrelevant to a discussion of Christian terrorism. Unless you are trying to argue they were justified?”

They are irrelevant to you because you are pro-choice abortion. Of course they would be irrelevant to you. But to many who are anti-abortion…….we look at each life taken as a killing against a helpless human being in the womb.

“But the Qur'an also has many parts condemning violence. There's really very little difference.”

Oh pleazze……no difference. Look at the history of Islamic terrorism. Have you read their books kelzie? You haven’t have you?

ABout Old Testament law....

The Ten Commandments dealt primarily with the Jew's Moral and Spiritual responsibility to God. They read those commandments and realized they failed in them no matter how hard they tried. That was why God provided the priesthood and the sacrifices. These were temporary until Jesus Himself came, but these Laws were given to bring the Jew and all men to Christ for forgiveness and eternal life. Something the Law could never do. No one can follow the law perfectly………..Jesus came because we couldn’t.

Jesus said, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”

Jesus fulfilled the law by becoming our sacrifice and shed his own sinless blood on our behalf. He forever did away with the need for sacrificing animals. He offered himself once for all for the sins of all mankind (Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 26, 28, 10:10, 1 Peter 3:18).

Jesus also said, “It is finished!” (John 19:30).

He had fulfilled his redemptive purpose as God’s sacrificial lamb. He had become God’s sacrifice for sin.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Prove it. Point out where it says in the bible that the OT doesn't matter anymore.

And really, I'm not so impressed with the whole sacrificial son thing. Big deal, anybody would do it, given the circumstances.

you certainly have the right to your opinion.

 

[Kelzie]

More lives were taken on 9-11... by that single act of terrorism then all the abortion bombings together.

Yup. So?

How many people have died because of acts of terrorism in abortion? Not many.

Does it really matter?

There have been acts however of terrorism on America on and off our soil.

As Americans we have been targeted all over the world.

Yes we have.

I guess you forgot all the acts perpetrated against us in the past by islam.

Of course I haven't. What would give you that impression? We were discussing Christian terrrorists though.

Oh this sounds like a peaceful religion doesn’t it?

The religion doesn't sound one way or the other.

You obviously do not understand this passage. And you should have included the many verses that followed for it to make sense.

In this passage Jesus was not encouraging disobedience to parents or conflict at home. He was showing that His presence demands a decision. and it does. Because some will follow Christ and some won’t, conflict will inevitably arise. As we each stand up for Him in our different ways, our different morals, goals, and purposes will set us apart from others. Commitment to god is even more important then they are. God should be your first priority. To take up the cross and to follow Christ means to publically identify with Him and certainly to experience opposition and for some to even face suffering and death for His sake. And many have faced the sword who have stood up for Christ.

Great, like I said, conflict. Thanks for the back up.

So you have read both the holy books? The Koran and the Hadiths?

Nah, they bore me to tears.

Koran 47:1:,3,5
8:60, 3:15, 2:19,8:12, 33:26, 59:2
Are these verses are peaceful?

Hell if I know, but I will assume by your tone that they probably are not. I've never said they didn't exist.

Its funny that some people who hate Christians and Christianity give Islam a free pass. They think Christianity is so inclusive…….IMO that only shows their ignorance of the religion of Islam. Of both faiths really.

Aw, don't feel bad. I think both religions are rather silly. But we were discussing Christian terrorists.

They don’t know that hadith after hadith recounts in explicit detail how jihad is to be carried out.

Okay?

The Koran teaches that “the true religion with god is Islam” that salvation is achieved only through SUBMISSION to the teaching of Allah. Salvation in Islam REQUIRES THAT ONE MUST BE A MEMBER OF THE ISLAMIC FAITH.

So unless you’re a Muslim you are going to Hell.

Hate to burst your bubble, but so does the bible.

Why do you give it the thumbs up?

I don't, though I would be interested as to how you came to this conclusion.

They are irrelevant to you because you are pro-choice abortion. Of course they would be irrelevant to you. But to many who are anti-abortion…….we look at each life taken as a killing against a helpless human being in the womb.

I don't really care how you see it. Does it justify terrorism?

Oh pleazze……no difference. Look at the history of Islamic terrorism. Have you read their books kelzie? You haven’t have you?

Who's books? Books about Islamic terrrorism? Sure I have. Have you?

ABout Old Testament law....

The Ten Commandments dealt primarily with the Jew's Moral and Spiritual responsibility to God. They read those commandments and realized they failed in them no matter how hard they tried. That was why God provided the priesthood and the sacrifices. These were temporary until Jesus Himself came, but these Laws were given to bring the Jew and all men to Christ for forgiveness and eternal life. Something the Law could never do. No one can follow the law perfectly………..Jesus came because we couldn’t.



Jesus fulfilled the law by becoming our sacrifice and shed his own sinless blood on our behalf. He forever did away with the need for sacrificing animals. He offered himself once for all for the sins of all mankind (Hebrews 7:27, 9:12, 26, 28, 10:10, 1 Peter 3:18).



He had fulfilled his redemptive purpose as God’s sacrificial lamb. He had become God’s sacrifice for sin.

That's all very lovely. Perhaps you could find where Jesus told us we could ignore the OT?

 

[doughgirl]

“The religion doesn't sound one way or the other.”

So on one hand you think Christianity is so hateful, yet you see nothing unpeaceful about Islam? :rofl

“Hell if I know, but I will assume by your tone that they probably are not. I've never said they didn't exist.”

You said this about the verses I listed. Get your Koran and Hadith out and look. Then respond to them and tell me if Islam is peaceful.

“Aw, don't feel bad. I think both religions are rather silly. But we were discussing Christian terrorists.”

This thread is about Islam and its peaceful takeover……we were discussing that as well. I believe you mentioned abortion bombers.......

“Hate to burst your bubble, but so does the bible.”

ABsolutely…………then why do people like yourself give a pass to Islam as being so peaceful and fair and openminded………and you bash Jesus Christ and followers every chance you get.

“Who's books? Books about Islamic terrrorism? Sure I have. Have you?”

I have read many books about terrorism……..

I love to read …what books could you suggest that you personally have?

“That's all very lovely. Perhaps you could find where Jesus told us we could ignore the OT?”

Not only did Jesus perfectly live according to the Law, but he also instructed the Jews whom he taught to follow the law. The law was important.

Why? He had not died and risen yet. He had not fulfilled what he came to do.

Therefore, all of Jesus' personal teaching that he did while on earth was under the canopy of the system that God gave to Moses for the Jews.

Jesus said to the multitudes, and to His disciples, Saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Matt. 23).

The purpose of Jesus' life and work was to fulfill BOTH the Law and the Prophets (other OT books). He did NOT destroy the Old Testament. That doesn't mean that we Christians have to keep all the other old laws. His ministry and teachings caused many changes in the law -- changes so drastic that laws were "set aside" or declared "obsolete" Read.....Heb. 7:18; 8:13.
Some laws remained the same, some were changed, and others were "abolished" Read Eph. 2:15.

Some specific laws of the OT are still valid, but some were set aside when Jesus came and fulfilled them by his life, death and resurrection. Example…. Old covenant laws (such as the laws of sacrifice) have been set aside precisely because Jesus has fulfilled them. We not longer need a sacrifice because Jesus was the lamb that was sacrificed. He did it Himself for us.

He didn’t come necessarily for the purpose of destroying those laws, but rather for fulfilling their meaning. And by fulfilling their meaning, He made it unnecessary for Christians to keep those laws. They once served their purpose by pointing to Jesus. He is the reality to which they could only point. But now that he has come, they are no longer legally binding. They might have at one time given us a peak at Gods will and what they might teach us... but they are not binding.

The whole OT pointed to Jesus Christ and His coming.

What is required for Christian behavior? Read Heb. 8:13. The OT must be interpreted in regard to what the New Testament says -- and the NT says that the old covenant is obsolete.

 

[Kelzie]

So on one hand you think Christianity is so hateful, yet you see nothing unpeaceful about Islam? :rofl



You said this about the verses I listed. Get your Koran and Hadith out and look. Then respond to them and tell me if Islam is peaceful.



This thread is about Islam and its peaceful takeover……we were discussing that as well. I believe you mentioned abortion bombers.......



ABsolutely…………then why do people like yourself give a pass to Islam as being so peaceful and fair and openminded………and you bash Jesus Christ and followers every chance you get.



I have read many books about terrorism……..

I love to read …what books could you suggest that you personally have?





Not only did Jesus perfectly live according to the Law, but he also instructed the Jews whom he taught to follow the law. The law was important.

Why? He had not died and risen yet. He had not fulfilled what he came to do.

Therefore, all of Jesus' personal teaching that he did while on earth was under the canopy of the system that God gave to Moses for the Jews.



The purpose of Jesus' life and work was to fulfill BOTH the Law and the Prophets (other OT books). He did NOT destroy the Old Testament. That doesn't mean that we Christians have to keep all the other old laws. His ministry and teachings caused many changes in the law -- changes so drastic that laws were "set aside" or declared "obsolete" Read.....Heb. 7:18; 8:13.
Some laws remained the same, some were changed, and others were "abolished" Read Eph. 2:15.

Some specific laws of the OT are still valid, but some were set aside when Jesus came and fulfilled them by his life, death and resurrection. Example…. Old covenant laws (such as the laws of sacrifice) have been set aside precisely because Jesus has fulfilled them. We not longer need a sacrifice because Jesus was the lamb that was sacrificed. He did it Himself for us.

He didn’t come necessarily for the purpose of destroying those laws, but rather for fulfilling their meaning. And by fulfilling their meaning, He made it unnecessary for Christians to keep those laws. They once served their purpose by pointing to Jesus. He is the reality to which they could only point. But now that he has come, they are no longer legally binding. They might have at one time given us a peak at Gods will and what they might teach us... but they are not binding.

The whole OT pointed to Jesus Christ and His coming.

What is required for Christian behavior? Read Heb. 8:13. The OT must be interpreted in regard to what the New Testament says -- and the NT says that the old covenant is obsolete.

You seem to be under the impression that I believe Islam is more peaceful that Christianity. For the life of me, I can not understand how you came to this conclusion, as I have very clearly stated the both the bible AND the Qur'an can be used to justify violence.

As far as proof that we don't have to follow the OT anymore, I'm not going to dig out my bible. There's plenty of sources where you can quote it online, please do so. Suggested reading, specifically on the topic of religion and terrorism is Terror in the Mind of God, by Mark Juergensmeyer. Goes over quite a few groups that have committed terrorism in the names of various religions and how they justified it.

 

[Jay R]

Muslems kill because they are commanded to do so by their holy book.
Christians do it because they were nuts before they became Christians.

Well and is their opinion that they are not "nuts" somehow more valuable than the Islam extremists who say they are not "nuts? I personally think anyone that harms another in the name of a god is nuts. Perhaps not in the clinical sense, but certainly their morals are confused.

I can assure you that every single Christian terrorist believes God wants him to do what he does and can justify it from the bible. Just like Islamic terrorists.

150 since 1982? Good Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There were that many Islamic acts of terror last week.

I don't think that the volume of violence is necessarily the key point here, both religions are demonstrably invoked as a justification for the violence committed by adherants to those faiths. And a religious fundamentalist, regardless of which faith he proscribes to, is going to believe that his god approves of and even demands the actions that he/she has taken. Saying that it's true but Muslims are doing it more than us Christians is laughable, what are you doing keeping score of terrorism? :lol:

I'm certainly not presumptive enough to claim any great understanding of Islam, but to my limited knowledge Islam desires that Muslims live in lands controlled by Muslims under Islamic law, and that should be a goal for communities to aim for. In the event of population migrations as we are seeing today, Islam maintains that stance as an ideal, though it will compromise and accept Muslims living in non-Muslim land under non-Muslim leaders so long as they are allowed their freedom to practice Islam. This can be interpretated as a 'colonisation' if you believe in such things, history however would contradict that, Christianity did not subsume Islam or Hinduism when exported from Imperialist Europe did it? And the traditional tribal beliefs of the African tribes are still present despite the widespread uptake of Islam, Christianity and Catholicism. The 'religious colonization' that Islam is supposedly propagating is great fodder for those peddling an apocalypse but pretty unlikely in real terms, I think it stems from misunderstanding of the 'Dar al-Harb' principle, the 'territory of war (conquest)' that is to become Islamic land ('Dar al-Islam') either by conversion or conquest. An idea that even the Islamist terrorists seem reluctant to invoke in their communiques to the western media, most likely to prevent an even greater hardening of our public opinion against them, if they come out and tell us there's no chance of them stopping until we are all either Muslim or dead then we'll probably do something like ban citizenship through marriage or, heavens above, control migration!:shock:

Let's try and remain objective, both faiths have been used to condone violence in the past, both faiths have actively promoted violence against one another in the past, and both faiths continue to be cited as justification for violence in the present. Less trying to paint one as better or worse than the other and perhaps try applying ourselves to the thread topic.

 

[Kelzie]

Yeah, what he said. :mrgreen:

 

[doughgirl]

JamesRichards said, “I don't think that the volume of violence is necessarily the key point here, both religions are demonstrably invoked as a justification for the violence committed by adherants to those faiths.”

Jesus did not condone violence. And most Christians do not.

“And a religious fundamentalist, regardless of which faith he proscribes to, is going to believe that his god approves of and even demands the actions that he/she has taken.”

What? Not really. I have done many things in my life that I know God did not approve of. I don’t try to justify my actions. I know what is right and wrong. I certainly know the minute I sin.

“Saying that it's true but Muslims are doing it more than us Christians is laughable, what are you doing keeping score of terrorism?”

Muslims are doing it more. As I said, in past world history much was done that was evil in the name of Christianity, by people who were sinners.
Today however if you look at the score card concerning terrorism……Islam wins hands down and has for decades. That is fact.

“In the event of population migrations as we are seeing today, Islam maintains that stance as an ideal, though it will compromise and accept Muslims living in non-Muslim land under non-Muslim leaders so long as they are allowed their freedom to practice Islam.”

Compromise? You mean in countries that are democracies, right? Because they do NOT COMPROMISE IN aRAB STATES. And they can’t practice Islam the way their holy books stipulate in the U.S. because they live in democracys that prevent that from happening. There is no sharia law in America. In the Islamic state Sharia governs both public and private lives of those living within the state. There is no separation of church and state in Islamic countries.

“Let's try and remain objective, both faiths have been used to condone violence in the past, both faiths have actively promoted violence against one another in the past, and both faiths continue to be cited as justification for violence in the present. Less trying to paint one as better or worse than the other and perhaps try applying ourselves to the thread topic.”

Both faiths have in the past I agree, but they both do not today. Islam however does. How can you say that the Christian community worldwide promotes violence against any other other faith or culture, country. On the contrary. Missionaries might travel worldwide to spread the gospel…….but where do they force others to convert. Where today are there active Christian terrorists doing what the Muslims are doing?

Where there is active conflicts in the world as far as terrorism is concerned, Islam has been mainly responsible.

And they will be the first to proudly take responsibility for those acts.

It is amazing that in the weeks following 9-11, NOT A SINGLE ARAB STATE openly joined the United States brokered military coalition to side with America against terrorism. Why?
Islam does little to police itself to rid itself of the terrorism that has been going on for decades. They look the other way. Why? They fear the radical element that lives within their own borders. Ignoring evil only lets it breed. And it is breeding. It has been silent since 9-11 on our soil......but sooner or later soemthing will happen again.

You tell me how a religion that prides itself as being merciful and is full of justice…ignore the repeated acts of terrorism that goes on worldwide. How about what is happening to Christians in the Sudan…genocidal slaughter? What is happening to the millions of black Christians in that country?

I do not in any way blame Islam for 9-11. I think however they are to blame for the atmosphere that produced it. I’d like to see concrete evidence that the moderate Muslims in America stand with us in the war against terror……..Until they do, I will always question loyalties.

Terrorist big goal………to destroy us any way they can. I for one wont hide my head in the sand and look away. Nothing justifies terrorism……….But as someone once said….”nothing justifies trusting a terrorist before hes dead, unless you don’t care to live.”

Check this site out. If you think they don’t have grand ideas of the takeovers of countries……….guess again.

http://www.masada2000.org/Islam-Rules.html

We will fight the infidel to death.

- Meanwhile American laws will protect us.
- Democrats and Leftist will support us.
- N.G.O.s will legitimize us.
- C.A.I.R. will incubate us.
- The A.C.L.U. will empower us.
- Western Universities will educate us.
- Mosques will shelter us
- O.P.E.C. will finance us
- Hollywood will love us.
- Kofi Annan and most of the United Nations will cover our asses.


AND ITS WORKING.

 

[talloulou]

perhaps try applying ourselves to the thread topic.

Okay....so why do the poor and crazy breed more than the rich and sane? Counter productive is it not? Or is that out of line?

 

[Kelzie]

Okay....so why do the poor and crazy breed more than the rich and sane? Counter productive is it not? Or is that out of line?

Duh, because they're rich and sane! They realize kids cost money and that having 16 of them is just stupid. My apologies to anyone who has 16 kids, I didn't mean you.

 

[ghost]

Why is it that people have to pick out text from the old testament. Doesnt anyone know that Christians dont fallow rules from the old testament anymore. The only people who do are Jewish people. Jesus set up new rules in the new testament. That way we wouldnt have to be barbaric about things anymore. But there were reasons why God put certain and regulations in the old testament. He didnt want his chosen people to breed with others, because he knew they would fallow pagan relgions. But then later on he changed that because he wanted to save those pagan religions.

 

[Gibberish]

Why is it that people have to pick out text from the old testament. Doesnt anyone know that Christians dont fallow rules from the old testament anymore. The only people who do are Jewish people. Jesus set up new rules in the new testament. That way we wouldnt have to be barbaric about things anymore. But there were reasons why God put certain and regulations in the old testament. He didnt want his chosen people to breed with others, because he knew they would fallow pagan relgions. But then later on he changed that because he wanted to save those pagan religions.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." - Matthew 5:17-18

To Christians though Jesus brought new law and a new convenant. The old laws are in the past and the teaching of the messiah are the future.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I like this one:

We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11 Ephesians

Ut oh, your efforts are futile! Oh so the OT doesnt matter? Well heres the NT saying the same thing:

We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2 Peter

 

[Prophetxxx]

But the Qur'an also has many parts condemning violence. There's really very little difference.

You might have posted these verses and i simply overlooked them. But could you show these verses that condemn violence?

 

[Kelzie]

You might have posted these verses and i simply overlooked them. But could you show these verses that condemn violence?

Nooooo...damn why do I always have to do the internet sleuthing? Here. You owe me a favor and don't think I'm not going to collect.

“…take not life, which God hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” Al- Quran 6:151

“…if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people.” Al- Quran 5:32

"Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Al- Quran 5:2

"And do not let ill-will towards any folk incite you so that you swerve from dealing justly. Be just; that is nearest to heedfulness" Al- Quran 5:8

"God commands justice and doing good and giving to relatives. And He forbids indecency and doing wrong and tyranny. He warns you so that hopefully you will pay heed." Al- Quran 16:90

“Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.” Al- Quran 2:256

"Do not say to one who offers you peace, "You are not a believer," seeking the spoils of this life. For God has abundant treasure. You used to be like them, after all, and then God blessed you." Quran 4:94



I'm sure that's enough. The Qur'an both condemns and advocates violence. As hypocritical as the bible.

 

[Donkey1499]

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020

Gadhafi can kiss my fat, christian ***!

 

[skg]

i want to clear out something here

i am a muslim and i have read Quran many times.
there is nothing about killing a man if he change his religion
and nothing about killing or forcing people to get into islam

i agree with you that some muslims exaggerating in islam ( i don't know why) but they can't prove thes EXAGGERATION from Quran.

and about violence i think this refer to their nature or culture

 

[MSgt]

i want to clear out something here

i am a muslim and i have read Quran many times.
there is nothing about killing a man if he change his religion
and nothing about killing or forcing people to get into islam

i agree with you that some muslims exaggerating in islam ( i don't know why) but they can't prove thes EXAGGERATION from Quran.

and about violence i think this refer to their nature or culture

Exactly.

Everyone can agree that...

1) In times of tumult, all religions have a diverse collection of men that can easily turn towards the light as easily as the dark.

2) The desperate will always seek to blame others and deeply religious men will always seek to harm "infidels" or "non-believers" to please their God for salvation and rescue (Early 16th century European Christianity, Today's Middle East, etc.)

3) All religious books are hypocritical and history has shown that given the right circumstance, a Radical element will always seek those scriptures that will allow them "revenge" (Bible, Qu'ran, etc.)

4) In all religions, man has used the backward traditions of the past to gain and maintain control over his people - no matter what it does to the people....or their future.

5) All religions have seen their share of tyrants and evil doers that would pervert their religions to such an unrecognizable position that they actually wind up creating a splinter religion (Thomas Muntzer, Phillip II, Osama Bin Ladden, etc).

In the decaying Arab world, Islam is the problem—because of the way bitter old men interpret and deform its more humane precepts while embracing its cruelest injunctions. They have spent the better part of the last century upholding outdated traditions to maintain control and power. They have restricted the free flow of information, subjugated their women, refrained from creating educational institutions that encourage free thought and expression, and they have absolutely refused to build a culture that would lead to a life "away from God." In affect, they have destroyed their civilizations into hopeless stagnation and they have used us to blame it all on. Those that seek to blame it all on American foreign policy are either stupid or ignorant. We are very much in the beginnnings of a cultural war that will have many fronts on many levels. It could even be argued that today's worldy problem is split between a history's first real "people's culture" and a culture immersed in the past traditions of "God."

However, Islam as a mundane controlling and organizational tool is failing all over the world. The extreme danger in this, is that there is no mechanism in Islam that offers an Islamic to ask for forgiveness of sins. The worse that region gets, the more individuals will seek to avenge the sins of other cultures for his own salvation. All it takes is a charismatic leader to form organizations and lead the masses on a "crusade" for "God."

Today's Islam is at war with itself. Many don't even see it or merely refuse to see it. It is too easy to either blame the west or blame the east. The west is very much in a reaction stage given their complete lack of recognization and willful ignorance of the last 60 fifty years for a "stable" oil supply. The East is responsible for the ruin of their own societies that they themselves have self-prescribed. Islam is very much trying to define itself as a peaceful religion or a religion that reflects that image of a hang man's noose. The hard core terrorists are doing their best to convince the vast majority of Muslims that it is not possible to change the earth and still see "God" smile.