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G20 - As Good A Round-Up As You'll See Anywhere

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... well, better really.

The worst thing we can do as people, and this is explained very effectively in this video, is turn up at these pre-choreographed meets such as G20, where the protestor will be penned into a free speech zone and manipulated from there. We can see through the following clips that what we are being manipulated to do is gather in one spot, federal agent provocateurs initiate violence and normal people who would perhaps be prone to get excitement from that initiation join in.


Yep, destroy your telly.


And actions such as the following events caught on film, should always be kept in mind when we're faced with sticky political climates such as what we see now surrounding G20 :


Do good.
 

Teh Internets

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Uhhhh... what? There aren't any videos in your post and it's hard to tell what you're talking about without the videos. *FacePalm*
 

RightinNYC

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I have to say, the whole "agent provacateur" angle is really a good one for you guys. That way, no matter what stupid and criminal **** that idiot protesters get up to, you can just brush it off and blame the government.

Video: OMG-20 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Around 6:20 in.
 

Deuce

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I have to say, the whole "agent provacateur" angle is really a good one for you guys. That way, no matter what stupid and criminal **** that idiot protesters get up to, you can just brush it off and blame the government.

Video: OMG-20 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Around 6:20 in.
Supposedly Canada admitting to these tactics once before. That makes them permanently guilty of all police-related accusations!
 

jambalaya

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I think my free speech is being taken away by the senseless destruction perpetrated by some of the protesters. Way to ruin it for the rest of us.
 

Lord Tammerlain

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Supposedly Canada admitting to these tactics once before. That makes them permanently guilty of all police-related accusations!
Yes it happened at the SPP Summit in Quebec during the 2007 meeting

Quebec police forced to own up to use of agent provocateurs at summit protest - Anarkismo

Apart from the cops behavour when confronted there were other clues to their identity. Photos of the 'arrest' show the soles of the boots that two of the 'protesters' are wearing. These are identical to the soles of the boots that the cops arresting them are wearing and on investigation turned up to be pattern only used for police boots. (#134AR Technical Lug soles - see Vibram ).

Another give away is that the police only claimed four arrests on the day and four other arrests, all of known protesters, were already known of. So these three guys have vanished.

After being silent for a day the cops finally had to own up but put the remarkable spin on the story that "“The police officers were identified by demonstrators when they refused to throw projectiles." Right - pretty much exactly not what the video shows where instead the cops seems very attached to their projectiles despite the demonstrators repeated demands that they should drop them. This is a good moment to view the video.

If you watch the video the undercover police officers were refusing to put down the rocks as requested by the protestors rather then being encouraged to throw them
 
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Dr_Patrick

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What I personally find disgusting is that $1 billion was spent on security. The Black Block anarchists (whether you buy the conspiracy of them being undercover cops or not) were vandalizing **** in the middle of the city for an hour and a half and cops did absolutely NOTHING. Then a short while later they decided to attack a large group of peaceful protesters. How can people honestly see nothing wrong with this picture?
 

BmanMcfly

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I have to say, the whole "agent provacateur" angle is really a good one for you guys. That way, no matter what stupid and criminal **** that idiot protesters get up to, you can just brush it off and blame the government.

Video: OMG-20 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Around 6:20 in.
Ok
YouTube - EXPOSED! G20 Toronto Police Agent Provocateurs in Video and Photos - WATCH @ 2:35 for total proof
We're talking about the 'anarchists' here... about 20 of them ALL with the same police issue combat boots, police issue batons, with the same black backpacks (with factory creases still visible, ie: used for the first time). These guys are filmed commiting all the violence, no fear of arrest, and even retreating behind police lines after they've committed their crimes.

THERE IS NO DEBATE that the mounties hired provocateurs, or got police to dress as anarchists to burn the police cars conveniently forgotten in the intersections for the anarchists to burn.

This is litterally gestapo style tactics... they even had people by the fence asking citizens for their 'papers' OR BE ARRESTED. They litterally took the 'detainees' into cages with high powered air conditioners, CCTV's over the toilets, forcing people into MULTIPLE strip searches, and so on....

No joke... even 'snatch and grab' techniques : YouTube - Two unmarked vans snatch and grab at G20 Toronto 06.27.2010

RIP Freedom.

What I personally find disgusting is that $1 billion was spent on security. The Black Block anarchists (whether you buy the conspiracy of them being undercover cops or not) were vandalizing **** in the middle of the city for an hour and a half and cops did absolutely NOTHING. Then a short while later they decided to attack a large group of peaceful protesters. How can people honestly see nothing wrong with this picture?
Yes... when I did the math with VERY liberal wages for the police (50$ / hour * 10000 officers), the installation of the fences and CCTV's, travel arrangements for all the delegates their rooms and board all for 3 days, plus the 3 million spent on a 'fake lake'... I came up with a figure that was LESS then 50 million, even when I took overtime and all into consideration... So, where'd the 1.195 BILLION go??? I mean, I even assumed that they worked 72 hours straight (64 hours@ 75$ per hour)

Those in Toronto got a good scamming over the meeting.

That's how it ALWAYS GOES... after the Montebello incident the head of the RCMP came out and said that these officers were "performing their duties"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqiba2m4mbw


------

Edit : Score yet ANOTHER "conspiracy theory" to land as confirmed accurate.
 
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Great to see the topic built upon thankyou members.

G20 Toronto - Our media and police - Working hard toward the National Suicide


 

Gabriel

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WHO GAVE THE G20 COMMANDER HIS COMMANDS?
Paul Jay: Was the Prime Minister the hidden hand behind the G20 fiasco in Toronto?


[video]http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5352[/video]
 

BmanMcfly

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WHO GAVE THE G20 COMMANDER HIS COMMANDS?
Paul Jay: Was the Prime Minister the hidden hand behind the G20 fiasco in Toronto?


[video]http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5352[/video]
It's still too early for the cops to admit that as 'infiltrators' of the black bloc that, based on previous demonstrable actions, instigated the violence / breaking windows / lighting cars on fire. Give it another 3-5 weeks once most everyone has forgot... then you'll find the article at the back of the newspaper... 'oh, btw, the black bloc were mostly cops in disguise... they were just doing their job.'
 

Gabriel

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I know this is unrelated... but since we are talking about the G20.


EDIT:I don't subscribe to a lot of what is said.. but an emerging global economic power is developing out of globalization and free market libertarianism.
 
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Gabriel

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In some ways I completely reject this video I've posted the editor combines legitimate concerns with illegitimate arguments. Certainly a personal agenda but I defend that right. Much of what is said in this video is exaggerated.. particularly with regards to environment. ...

Anyhow I have a complicated politic myself. Maybe someday I will articulate my current thinking. But it is a challenge personally to compile it all. If i can find motivation to do that I will. I am sorry if I have offended anyone with this particular video I have posted.
 

BmanMcfly

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I know this is unrelated... but since we are talking about the G20.


EDIT:I don't subscribe to a lot of what is said.. but an emerging global economic power is developing out of globalization and free market libertarianism.
You don't need to 'subscribe' to it... this film has a bibliography
Fall of the Republic – Guide and Bibliography

This film is quite well sourced,

In some ways I completely reject this video I've posted the editor combines legitimate concerns with illegitimate arguments. Certainly a personal agenda but I defend that right. Much of what is said in this video is exaggerated.. particularly with regards to environment. ...
Can you demonstrate how these are exaggerations?? Especially if you look at the source material.

Anyhow I have a complicated politic myself. Maybe someday I will articulate my current thinking. But it is a challenge personally to compile it all. If i can find motivation to do that I will. I am sorry if I have offended anyone with this particular video I have posted.
The 'best' debunking I've seen of any Alex Jones film is : 'That's an Alex Jones film'.

Most governments in the world are on the verge of collapsing...
 

Resist the gov.

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I totally believe that the police infiltrated the Black Block because then it gives the police an excuse to attack the protesters even if a lot of them are protesting peacefully. And with regards to Alex Jones i think hes legit on a lot of issues if you listen to his show most of his articles that he gets stuff from are from the New York Times and other credible news sources.
 

Gabriel

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You don't need to 'subscribe' to it... this film has a bibliography
Fall of the Republic – Guide and Bibliography

This film is quite well sourced,



Can you demonstrate how these are exaggerations?? Especially if you look at the source material.



The 'best' debunking I've seen of any Alex Jones film is : 'That's an Alex Jones film'.

Most governments in the world are on the verge of collapsing...
uhh.. don't make me watch it again.. :(

I basically found large portions full of unproven hypothesis. But I was drinking so I kind of blanked out these particular parts lol.. I would hear particular topics though I strongly agree with. Guess I will have to listen to it again though to make sure. Which may require another bottle of merlot. :)
 

BmanMcfly

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I totally believe that the police infiltrated the Black Block because then it gives the police an excuse to attack the protesters even if a lot of them are protesting peacefully.
Yes, but it's not just about stopping peaceful protest, it's about stifling free speech, and make it such a punishment that people are scared to voice their opinions... Not saying you're wrong, but it's deeper then what you're saying.


And with regards to Alex Jones i think hes legit on a lot of issues if you listen to his show most of his articles that he gets stuff from are from the New York Times and other credible news sources.
Ya, that's why I get frustrated when I ask people to debunk him other then by attacking him, and nobody can pull through.... I do try to avoid using him as a source because often it gets contention merely because 'alex jones said it'.

uhh.. don't make me watch it again.. :(
No worries... you can look at the source documents if you insist.

I basically found large portions full of unproven hypothesis.
I more or less agree with you here. Like he does have the documentation, but takes it a step further, and doesn't quite say what he's alluding too.... however, media writers are experts at wording things as to create the desired effect in the audience. That's probably my one beef with Alex Jones is that he often takes an opinion that goes overboard what the documentation actually says.

Here's the problem though : If you're going to take that perspective you're also conceding that much of what he says IS accurate... if just slightly overblown. Many times he has redemption... the best was his PRE-debunking of Glenn Becks 'debunking' of FEMA camps, essentially saying "Glen Beck will show KNOWN fraudulent examples, maybe 3-4 of them, and call it debunked without looking at ANY of the real facts. A cleverly built strawman"(to paraphrase). A few hours later, Glenn Becks' saying EXACTLY what is expected, as if Jones had the script in hand.

But I was drinking so I kind of blanked out these particular parts lol.. I would hear particular topics though I strongly agree with. Guess I will have to listen to it again though to make sure. Which may require another bottle of merlot. :)
He's made about a dozen movies... you don't necessarily have to rewatch... for example, an older one 'endgame' likewise has a bibliography... I'd be hard pressed to see a proper demonstration that the film is flawed enough to call it a fiction. I tend to stick with what CAN be sourced by mainstream sources. Though I've witnessed certain articles disappear or be altered in ways.
 

Gabriel

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uhh I have summary I made up a while back but it's clearly a draft of my opinion of the show. It needs to be refined of course and atm I don't have the patience nor the sobriety for it. :)
 

Orion

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I have to say, the whole "agent provacateur" angle is really a good one for you guys. That way, no matter what stupid and criminal **** that idiot protesters get up to, you can just brush it off and blame the government.

Video: OMG-20 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

Around 6:20 in.
This kind of comment is en par with what you are accusing them of. If they are using the "agent provocateur" card then obviously they are desperate, right? Your comment totally white washes the flood of testimony that has come forth about police abuses of power, not to mention the case that is already headed to the Canadian Supreme Court regarding suspension of constitutional rights by the provincial government.

I agree that the term is abused but the phenomenon is very real. There were definitely agents provocateurs at the G20 protests, along with the usual anarchist types who just flock to any cause in order to create chaos.

Your black meets their white.:shrug:
 

BmanMcfly

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This kind of comment is en par with what you are accusing them of. If they are using the "agent provocateur" card then obviously they are desperate, right? Your comment totally white washes the flood of testimony that has come forth about police abuses of power, not to mention the case that is already headed to the Canadian Supreme Court regarding suspension of constitutional rights by the provincial government.

I agree that the term is abused but the phenomenon is very real. There were definitely agents provocateurs at the G20 protests, along with the usual anarchist types who just flock to any cause in order to create chaos.

Your black meets their white.:shrug:
Agreed... looking through all the various videos from the G-20, there were a few key 'anarchists' that you can just look at and know that they are cops... and yes, they are the ones that are INSTIGATING the violence... among them there's the actual 'anarchists' that are actually communists that don't know what they are supporting... most of them are teenaged meth heads that don't even know what they are talking about if you could ask them.

It's not that it's an abused term, it's that the police get caught SO MANY TIMES, that you could just as well say that almost all violence at protests is started because of infiltration by people that have the agenda to guide the reaction to the protests.
 

Gabriel

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This is almost like work to critique this from my personal perspective. Please don’t judge my effort here harshly. :)

It opens up with the globe moving away to international currency which is completely correct. The economy going global is and will push the political world to organise globally. I’m not terribly interested in turning global warming into a conspiracy theory. It is a scientific theory that is very credible. I do have a fair bit of scepticism about some of the science behind it but for the most part the evidence of global warming is pretty strong with record heat levels, the oceans are warming. Determining the cause is tricky business but for lack of a better reason the burning of fossil fuels and Co2 seems to be the way the vast majority of scientists consensus. Homeland security using the boyscouts to fight terrorism sounds like early indoctrination of some youth at an overtly early age which should not be allowed. Clearly a gap that is being left by the failure of religious sentiment. Not global warming.

Tim ball is featured in the documentary and is known to have received financial benefits from big oil. He is a particularly bias source of knowledge and has been charged with this “denier” label for good reason. Tim Ball is a discredited source and has received money from oil companies. His appearance has raised a red flag.. his theories have been discredited. The people in this documentary are overly in favour of fossil fuel and arbitrarily discredit the mass of scientific research and science in general that they are professing environmentalism to control individuals lives. However the effect would never be that terrible and it is only oil companies that would be affected by research and development of alternative energy. Tim Ball is a terrible source and is a known bias personality

“Ball was featured in The Great Global Warming Swindle, a documentary film produced by Martin Durkin that was first aired in March 2007. The film showcased scientists, economists, politicians, writers, and others who disagree with the scientific consensus on global warming. In the film, Ball was misattributed as a professor in the Department of Climatology at the University of Winnipeg (the University of Winnipeg has never had a Department of Climatology and Ball retired more than ten years before the show aired).[11]”

Friends of Science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Friends of Science with whom Ball was associated with “There has also been some funding from “big oil”. But they seldom smile on us. They appear to believe that marketing is more important than historical climate information."

The issue with the political parties having the same policies on particular issues steadfastly is something I also strongly agree with. I blame the weakening for federal powers via deregulation and strong societal ideological thinking of the American public for much of the bias towards tax cuts, privatisation etc. Anything that is collectivist is relatively Mc Arthurised* and turned into a bogyman that the extreme far right libertarian oligarchic preponderates demonise anytime someone brings it up. Case in point is socialised Medicare.

I am confused though because the root of the problem has exposed itself. Deregulation is the root cause and I see libertarianism as the trouble not the resolution. This bail out, saved foreign banks who involved themselves in libertarian unsupervised deregulatory practices and derivatives. Libertarians solution to this problem is ridiculous insisting that the banking industry fail and throwing the entire world economy to fall into depression. This would result in a set back for unregulated free market imperialism and work against libertarian philosophy in the long run. I don’t trust unregulated banks. 600 trillion in derivatives.. In actuality the derivative market has no value and is a result of deregulation of financial markets so that banks could make bookie gambles on outcomes. In this case the gamble was on the sub prime loans not failing, which was a complete fallacy, considering the home owners were sold houses they couldn’t afford, a furthering of the case for more regulatory measures. It is possible though considering the power of the banks it was a manufactured failure. It may have been extortion of the Obama administration at the outset of his ascent to the oval office, possibly.

I don’t agree that Obama is as dangerous as Bush. At least Obama is attempting to make some changes to the largely privately controlled federal parties. The right left paradigm is still legitimate I believe but societal thinking about centrist and left of center policy needs to change to have serious political effect. The money coming from the private sector and lobbying has to be ended. It is completely irresponsible how America allows it’s political parties to be bought. Look at the republicans.. slobbering all over BP and apologising and the Tea party basically doing the same thing. The democrats tried to have the derivative market regulated but the libertarian republican party denied it.

The taxation and all government is illegitimate theme is completely overblown and exaggerated. Civil rights are collectivist ironically it is the government that is supposed to protect the rights of individuals. Weakening of the left right paradigm weakens the political process. In the US as well as other countries the move has gone right for to long and the end result has been economic collapse, unparalleled ecological disasters, cuts in taxation that created even greater debt. Now that the economy has collapsed, ironically because of deregulation the libertarians are expecting society to eat the whole enchilada. After having Bush spend the family fortune hand over fist and collapsing the economy the libertarians are now expecting the population suck it up and pay for it all. Even Bush was not so stupid as to dump on main street for something that had nothing to do with them. It was libertarians deregulatory ideological affinity that made the mess that wasn’t supposed to happen. Clearly free marketering libertarians unknowingly or knowingly support authoritarian oligarchy, social stratification and the hollowing out of the middle class.

I don’t fall for the claim that the markets were to fail intentionally although it wasn’t nearly the surprise it was made out to be. It was known for a few years there was going to be big problems, eventually. I myself read articles back as far as 2005 predicting what happened in 2008. It is creepy though it happened just before democrats were elected.

I find much of what Alex Jones says about government more paranoia, real collectivist mentalities paradoxically would be far less likely to involve themselves with this sort of economic world government for the rich. The US government borrows money from the Federal Reserve, and it is private. I do realise the power of the Bilderberg group. The “money changers” are behind the “New world order” are not in favour of collectivism.

I dislike that Obama has watered down his intentions for the people but he may have his hands tied by the libertarian corporate elite. Libertarians political aims only harden this power.. Only collective democratic powers can change all this and it has to be done in solidarity. I am not arguing for communism, only a move away from extreme individualism/anarchy for the wealthy. I believe that they are over focused on Obama and demonize him far more then is necessary. Alex Jones philosophy causes apathy in the political process. The government is not taking more and more control over the lives of individuals.. that is the oligarchy controlling via government. What needs to happen is the house and senate start behaving in favour of the people and worry less about the wealthy. Do what needs to get done and stop all this dogmatic insistence that deregulation and microscopic government is the answer.

I did love hearing Henry Paulson stammering and tripping over himself when he was being questioned about conflict of interest. It was comical and very telling. Here you can see there is still power in government in opposition to the oligarchy’s henchmen. I find this is contrary to Alex’s Jones’s claim that the government is always against the people. I believe there is power to fight this mess in the system but society has to embrace it. They cannot delimit this ultimate power except to reduce the size and power of the people via small government that is limited in what they can do.

I do believe Obama inherited a real mess. I sincerely believe he would like to help the disadvantaged but he is stuck working in a framework he inherited on his first day as president. I imagine sometimes that after a new president is elected they bring the newly chosen president into a room in the pentagon. The lights go off and they show the president a video of JFKs last moments.. only it is from a different perspective then all the other video shown to the public and the camera is looking down the barrel of a gun, it goes off and JFKs head explodes end of film.

Sporting events.. and “tribalism” of that for the males is a perfect distraction from the real issues. I agree with the documentaries claims on media manipulation. Multiculturalism is a part of globalization it involves the import of extra labour to help keep labour cheap and inflation in check. At the same time it is a bi partisan effort which lends to globalization advocacy.

Anti gun regulation is featured in the documentary. I am of two minds on this subject. On one hand I think it is good for the people to have means to fight and remove an unjust political leadership. On the other all it really does is cause homicide in general otherwise. If the government so chose it wouldn’t matter much how many guns the population has to fight the government because the military is so advanced in comparison.

I find the bias against Obama particularly overblown. The message has not really addressed the republican mess that he has inherited. The documentary presents the democrats in a negative light. I find it is bias in favour of libertarianism but I believe this documentary is sloppy in its fault finding. To say libertarians and republicans are the protectors of liberty for the people is completely intellectually dishonest. The people need to recapture the centers of power in the US but what will come of that if the implantation of globalization (free markets and libertarian) defeats democratic empowerment of the state because there is no higher authority then a collectives elected government.(unless your talking about the federal reserve) Globally however they now have other places to prop up and use the same methods via the privatized banking industry to take advantage of the poor and underprivileged. True government of the people for the people has been completely undermined by globalization and the ultra wealthy.
 
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Gabriel

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Oh this is rich.. check out this video.

[video]http://www.therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5366&updaterx=2010-07-10+19%3A07%3A10[/video]
 
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