Funding the troops in Iraq.......

[Navy Pride]

Well it looks like more and more every day the Democrats in Congress like Murtha and Feingold are laying groundwork to cut off funding to the troops in Iraq therefore putting the troops in harms way and abandoning them........I thought I would never see this happen again after Vietnam but I guess the whacko left has not learned their lesson.....

 

[Iriemon]

Well it looks like more and more every day the Democrats in Congress like Murtha and Feingold are laying groundwork to cut off funding to the troops in Iraq therefore putting the troops in harms way and abandoning them........I thought I would never see this happen again after Vietnam but I guess the whacko left has not learned their lesson.....

That is not the whole picture. If Congress were to set a deadline for continued funding, but the CiC determined to keep the troops in Iraq in spite of knowing that, you could equally say that wacko righty in the WH is putting them in harm's way and that it is he who has not learned the lesson of Vietnam (which is not surprising since he dodged it).

 

[Navy Pride]

That is not the whole picture. If Congress were to set a deadline for continued funding, but the CiC determined to keep the troops in Iraq in spite of knowing that, you could equally say that wacko righty in the WH is putting them in harm's way and that it is he who has not learned the lesson of Vietnam (which is not surprising since he dodged it).

Setting a deadline is exactly what the terrorists in Iraq want.........You and your left wing friends in congress are their best friends........

 

[26 X World Champs]

Well it looks like more and more every day the Democrats in Congress like Murtha and Feingold are laying groundwork to cut off funding to the troops in Iraq therefore putting the troops in harms way and abandoning them........I thought I would never see this happen again after Vietnam but I guess the whacko left has not learned their lesson.....

How can you start a thread without any proof or any story or anything? You're making it all up and you actually expect people to believe you?

Show us all WITH FACTS how Murtha and Feingold will cut off funding for the troops...not the surge troops ALL of the troops! I challenge you to do so Navy Pride! Are you going to face the challenge like a man or cut and run like a Bushie?

 

[Navy Pride]

How can you start a thread without any proof or any story or anything? You're making it all up and you actually expect people to believe you?

Show us all WITH FACTS how Murtha and Feingold will cut off funding for the troops...not the surge troops ALL of the troops! I challenge you to do so Navy Pride! Are you going to face the challenge like a man or cut and run like a Bushie?

Do you ever read the newspaper or watch the news? Get your head out of your *** and stop listenting to everything thing that "Fat ***" Nadler says and you might learn something.......

Probably not though...........You are to ****ing brainwashed.........

 

[Thelost1]

I agree with iriemon. If congress gave a timetable to cut off fnding, Bush would have to listen to the will of the people and remove them from harm's way, or be responsible for their injury.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Do you ever read the newspaper or watch the news? Get your head out of your *** and stop listenting to everything thing that "Fat ***" Nadler says and you might learn something.......

Probably not though...........You are to ****ing brainwashed.........

I challenge you to provide FACTUAL PROOF to your claims! Step up or Step OFF!

You can put me down to your heart's content as a diversion from posting facts but everyone can see through that ridiculous smoke screen.

I want to see proof that Murtha and Feingold are proposing to cut off all funding for the mission in Iraq and therefore putting our military in danger. Prove it! I say you're wrong and that all you're trying to do in this thread is toss missiles at Democrats.

It must be making you crazy to see Congress doing everything you despise and add to that the sorry state of the Executive Branch seems to have affected you to the point of starting threads that have no proof, no facts, nothing except your own made up rhetoric.

Here's something your posts lack Navy Pride, facts and verifiable proof. Sen. Feingold proposed a staged pullout that reduces spending in Iraq on Jan. 31, 2007. The Senate voted it down 86-13....No other proposal from Feingold exists so your premise for this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong.

January 31, 2007

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senator Russ Feingold today introduced the Iraq Redeployment Act of 2007. Feingold’s bill uses Congress’s power of the purse to force the President to safely redeploy U.S. troops from Iraq by prohibiting funds for continued operations six months after enactment. Feingold’s legislation allows for specific operations to continue in Iraq beyond six months, including counter-terrorism efforts, protection of U.S. personnel and infrastructure, and training of Iraqi security forces. The six-month timeframe provides the President with adequate time to safely redeploy the troops from Iraq.

Source: Feingold Introduces Iraq Redeployment Act of 2007

Feingold plan for Iraq loses lopsided vote; Just 13 senators support
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Jun 23, 2006 by KATHERINE M. SKIBA

Washington Sen. Russ Feingold's measure to begin withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq now and have most out by July 1, 2007 was overwhelmingly rejected Thursday in the Senate.

It won only 13 votes none from Republicans and 86 senators voiced opposition.

Source: Feingold plan for Iraq loses lopsided vote; Just 13 senators support Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The - Find Articles

Murtha's "plan" has no teeth to it and will not even make it to the Senate no less to the President to sign. He is expressing his opinion as is his right as an American and as a Congressman.

So I must once again demand that you provide PROOF that Murtha and Feingold are cutting off funding to all troops and that they're now in danger because of it....or apologize to the Forum for not telling the truth, please.

 

[Billo_Really]

The US mission officially now, is to LEAVE IRAQ!

Why? Because THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAID SO!

The majority of American's in this country want the war to stop. They want it to end. If the current elected leaders in Washington cannot catch this clue, they will be voted out of office in the next election. And the one after that. And the one after that. This is an irrefutable fact that some see and some don't. The ones that don't, will be un-employed. Period.

The only ones that support this war now are the fanatical, anti-American right that should be arrested and charged with Crimes Against Humanity. The fanatical right is nothing short of Nazi's.

 

[Navy Pride]

I agree with iriemon. If congress gave a timetable to cut off fnding, Bush would have to listen to the will of the people and remove them from harm's way, or be responsible for their injury.

Lets just say no one is surprised you agree with him........To put our troops in harms way by cutting off the funds they need to exist would be outrageous...............

It would not surprise me if your left wing whackpo friends in Congress like Kerry, Durbin, Murtha, and Kennedy try it though................They hate our military anyhow........

 

[26 X World Champs]

Lets just say no one is surprised you agree with him........To put our troops in harms way by cutting off the funds they need to exist would be outrageous...............

It would not surprise me if your left wing whackpo friends in Congress like Kerry, Durbin, Murtha, and Kennedy try it though................They hate our military anyhow........

Just some more unproven untruths! Come one show us all how they're conspiring to cut off funds so that the troops will be killed! C'mon enough with the rhetoric it's time to actually debate.

No more "it's all over the news" BS! Link us to stories that prove what you're claiming because that is how it works here...or everyone will know, again, that what you claim is false and not the truth...that it's just partisan hate speak brought on more and more by the fall of the Republican party led in retreat by none other than George W. Bush....

 

[Billo_Really]

LATEST POLL SUPPORTS CUT-OFF OF FUNDS
… FOR THE WHITE HOUSE
By Don Davis

The latest New York Times/CBS Poll indicates that an overwhelming majority of Americans favor an immediate cut-off of funds for all White House operations, including the salaries of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

The poll reflects the sentiment that the only way to get members of this Administration to re-deploy out of the government is to force them back into the oil, gas and mining industries from which they came.

Although the next Presidential election is approximately 20 months away, most voters agree with the proposition that the country would be far better off with an empty White House, than with the current occupants.

This should be Plan B!

 

[Tex]

Navy Pride is correct to say the Democrat defunding plan is splattered all over the news, but you will not find a newspaper story outlining the Democrat plan to 'bug out' of Iraq by cutting the supply lines to the troops, because such an overt act of treachery against the military is not the way to win elections, and that is the only goal they care about. Since winning Congress, the liberal leadership has produced little or nothing of what they were promising their liberal base, including their ambitious plans to de-fund the war. They now prefer Murtha's plan, a more covert plan to accomplish the very same thing, but giving them a small amount of cover to allow them to claim support for the troops.

Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa., chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, will outline the Democrats' plan formally today to anti-war groups. Rep. James Moran, D-Va., a subcommittee member, said the plan is aimed at tamping down calls from the Democrats' liberal wing for Congress to end funding for the war.

Of course, like most Democrat plans, this one requires a certain amount of stealth, because while the leadership plays it up to their liberal base as a sure plan to bring the troops home and disgrace the Commander-In-Chief, they must at the same time find a way to deceive the general public, most of whom do not actually hate George W. Bush passionately, into believing that they don't want to undercut the 'war on terror.' It's a delicate piece of political maneuvering, of the kind that the new speaker has so far shown very little ability to carry off.

Murtha's plan takes a back door approach to de-funding the war by making the military jump through a number of very difficult hoops before funds can be released.

"They won't be able to deploy troops unless they extend troops overseas. And if we limit the extension, then it'll be very difficult for them to continue this surge, which the American people are against and the Iraqis don't want," Murtha said Wednesday on National Public Radio.

Personally, I think Murtha's plan will also be abandoned, because it risks alienating too much of the general public. I think that, as usual, the Democrat leadership will just say, "Well, at least we tried," and their liberal wing will just have to swallow it, as usual - because, after all, who else but the Democrats can they turn to?

 

[26 X World Champs]

Personally, I think Murtha's plan will also be abandoned, because it risks alienating too much of the general public. I think that, as usual, the Democrat leadership will just say, "Well, at least we tried," and their liberal wing will just have to swallow it, as usual - because, after all, who else but the Democrats can they turn to?

Would you like to tell us what the GOP Plan is to end the war? So far, after 4 years virtually nothing the Bush Administration has tried has worked. Actually in reality almost everything they've done has FAILED. How can anyone put their faith in Bush when he can't ever get it right? The people he's chosen to prosecute the war have failed him and us miserably. Does the name Rumsfeld remind you of success or failure? How about Rice? What has she done as Sec. of State to improve Iraq? Cheney? He's the worst of the lot! Need I post his endless string of blunders?

So the American people rebel against the failed Republicans / NeoCons and elect Democrats. What makes you think that less than two months in that the American people are disappointed? Do you have one shred of evidence to bolster your claim or are you simply speaking for yourself and yourself only?

How about a Zogby Poll (one of the most CONSERVATIVE pollers out there)? Only 29.8% of Americans they polled in Mid-February 2007 think Bush is doing a GOOD or EXCELLENT job in Iraq versus 55.1% say Bush is doing a POOR job in Iraq! 55% to 29.8%!

A strong majority of Americans want our troops home ASAP. No one, including the Democrats has suggested cutting funds for the soldiers that are there. It is a lie to write otherwise. Murtha's plan sets benchmarks for performance, what a concept! I realize that Republicans have never had any oversight for this war but now Democrats and the majority of Americans want them to be judged by their performance.

UPI Poll: Support weak for Bush on Iraq

WASHINGTON, Feb. 20 (UPI) -- U.S. President George Bush's handling of the war in Iraq was rated "poor" by more than half of respondents to a UPI-Zogby International poll.

Some 55.1 percent of those asked said Bush's performance in handling the war in Iraq was "poor," a figure just less than last month's 55.2 percent giving the same answer.

Public support for the war in Iraq, which is nearly 4 years old, has waned over the past year to the point where the Democratic Party-controlled U.S. Congress rushed to have votes of confidence on increasing the number of U.S. troops involved in the action.

However, there were slight increases -- but still within the margin of error -- in U.S. respondents who gave the president a grade of "excellent" (7.7 percent compared to 7.1 percent in January) and "good" (22.1 percent versus 21.5 percent). Some 14.3 percent of participants gave Bush a grade of "fair," compared to 15.8 percent in that category last month.

The Zogby interactive poll was conducted Feb. 9-12 among 10,258 U.S. residents. The data have a margin of error of 1 percentage point.

Source: Zogby International

 

[Navy Pride]

Just some more unproven untruths! Come one show us all how they're conspiring to cut off funds so that the troops will be killed! C'mon enough with the rhetoric it's time to actually debate.

No more "it's all over the news" BS! Link us to stories that prove what you're claiming because that is how it works here...or everyone will know, again, that what you claim is false and not the truth...that it's just partisan hate speak brought on more and more by the fall of the Republican party led in retreat by none other than George W. Bush....

Tell me the truth Champs.......You really have not heard about Murtha's and Feingold's plan to cut off funds to our troops in Iraq? Even you are not that stupid.............Everyone that knows anything about politics knows this.......

 

[Tex]

So the American people rebel against the failed Republicans / NeoCons and elect Democrats. What makes you think that less than two months in that the American people are disappointed?

I didn't say the American people are disappointed (they are merely apathetic, as usual). I did suggest that the liberal base of the Democrat Party is or soon will be disappointed, when they have fully confirmed that their party is too gutless to de-fund the war. These chicken-hearted non-binding resolutions serve no purpose, except to help the terrorists in their recruitment efforts.

I am offering an opinion, just as you are about your perceptions of various members of the Bush administration. If I am asserting facts, I will post supporting links. Maybe you'll do the same.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

Well it looks like more and more every day the Democrats in Congress like Murtha and Feingold are laying groundwork to cut off funding to the troops in Iraq therefore putting the troops in harms way and abandoning them........I thought I would never see this happen again after Vietnam but I guess the whacko left has not learned their lesson.....

First, thank you for your service to our beloved nation :2wave:

Regretfully, the American voter has resorted to allowing the liberal mass media to make their decisions instead of actually researching the voting records of candidates. Add to that the fact that the Democrats have after voting to give our CIC the authority to deploy the troops displayed their true colors and have for approximately 3 years been attacking instead of working together with, and putting partisan politics aside until our troops come home.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

How can you start a thread without any proof or any story or anything? You're making it all up and you actually expect people to believe you?

Show us all WITH FACTS how Murtha and Feingold will cut off funding for the troops...not the surge troops ALL of the troops! I challenge you to do so Navy Pride! Are you going to face the challenge like a man or cut and run like a Bushie?

Well I can see that you spend your time in the bushes :roll:

In part:

Murtha proposes bill to choke funding for surge

Murtha proposes bill to choke funding for surge

By Eric Pfeiffer

01/15/06 "Washington Times" -- -- Rep. John P. Murtha, Pennsylvania Democrat, yesterday announced plans to introduce legislation that would cut off funding for President Bush's proposed surge of American troops into Baghdad.

"I think our hearings will show that even Republicans will vote with us when the bill finally comes up," Mr. Murtha, chairman of the Appropriations defense subcommittee, said during an appearance on ABC's "This Week."

Mr. Murtha said that he doesn't think Democrats can stop Mr. Bush from instituting the first wave of a troop surge, but that his panel will be able to pass legislation to stop further waves within a month. "I don't know how many troops they can get in the field before we get our bill up and passed in the Congress," he said.

White House spokesman Tony Snow told reporters last week that Mr. Bush already has the funds needed to support a troop surge. "Funding for the forces and to dispatch them to the region, it's already in the budget," he said. "So we're going to proceed with those plans."

But Mr. Murtha told ABC, "We're going to have extensive hearings, and we're going to look at exactly how much money he has."

"And we're going to try to change the direction of this war," he said.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

That is not the whole picture. If Congress were to set a deadline for continued funding, but the CiC determined to keep the troops in Iraq in spite of knowing that, you could equally say that wacko righty in the WH is putting them in harm's way and that it is he who has not learned the lesson of Vietnam (which is not surprising since he dodged it).

And your proof of President Bush dodging Nam is :roll:

And contrary to the opinion of some - Iraq is not another Vietnam.

Please wait while you are redirected

Iraq Is Not Vietnam
By Frederick W. Kagan
Frederick W. Kagan is resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

WHEN AMERICAN GROUND forces paused briefly during the march to Baghdad in 2003, critics of the war were quick to warn of a “quagmire,” an oblique reference to the Vietnam War. Virtually as soon as it became clear that the conflict in Iraq had become an insurgency, analogies to Vietnam began to proliferate. This development is not surprising. Critics have equated every significant American military undertaking since 1975 to Vietnam, and the fear of being trapped in a Vietnam-like war has led to the frequent demand that U.S. leaders develop not plans to win wars, but “exit strategies,” plans to get out of messes.

There is no question that the Vietnam War scarred the American psyche deeply, nor that it continues to influence American foreign policy and military strategy profoundly. CENTCOM’s strategy for the counterinsurgency effort in Iraq is an attempt to avoid making Vietnam-like mistakes. Proponents of other strategies, like “combined action platoons” or “oil spot” approaches, most frequently derive those programs from what they believe are the “right” lessons of Vietnam. It is becoming increasingly an article of faith that the insurgency in Vietnam is similar enough to the insurgency in Iraq that we can draw useful lessons from the one to apply to the other. This is not the case. The only thing the insurgencies in Iraq and Vietnam have in common is that in both cases American forces have fought revolutionaries. To make comparisons or draw lessons beyond that basic point misunderstands not only the particular historical cases, but also the value of studying history to draw lessons for the present.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Murtha proposes bill to choke funding for surge

That's not what Navy Pride was referring to. He said that Murtha and Feingold want to cut off ALL funding to the troops and that is completely and utterly untrue.

Murtha's proposal is just that and would never make it past the Senate because there aren't 60 Senators who will vote for it so the rest of the argument is totally moot but that does not stop some of you from distorting the truth with partisanship.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Tell me the truth Champs.......You really have not heard about Murtha's and Feingold's plan to cut off funds to our troops in Iraq? Even you are not that stupid.............Everyone that knows anything about politics knows this.......

You're twisting and distorting and misrepresenting the facts. If you would actually post links to prove what you're saying (which is impossible because it's not true) I would agree with you.

You're stating that Murhta and Feingold want to cut off ALL funding and that is not true so why are you spreading untruths, again?

It would be oh so refreshing if you started posting truths and facts but that is like "Waiting For Godot."

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

I agree with iriemon. If congress gave a timetable to cut off fnding, Bush would have to listen to the will of the people and remove them from harm's way, or be responsible for their injury.

With all due respect - it has been years since Congress actually was in tune with the "will of the people".

And regardless of what Congress says or does - the Constitution of the United States specifies that the President is the Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces during wartime. Once Congress in accordance with the Constitution gives the President the authority to deploy the troops - their job is to give our Armed Forces everything needed to win the war - plain and simple.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

I challenge you to provide FACTUAL PROOF to your claims! Step up or Step OFF!

You can put me down to your heart's content as a diversion from posting facts but everyone can see through that ridiculous smoke screen.

I want to see proof that Murtha and Feingold are proposing to cut off all funding for the mission in Iraq and therefore putting our military in danger. Prove it! I say you're wrong and that all you're trying to do in this thread is toss missiles at Democrats.

It must be making you crazy to see Congress doing everything you despise and add to that the sorry state of the Executive Branch seems to have affected you to the point of starting threads that have no proof, no facts, nothing except your own made up rhetoric.

Here's something your posts lack Navy Pride, facts and verifiable proof. Sen. Feingold proposed a staged pullout that reduces spending in Iraq on Jan. 31, 2007. The Senate voted it down 86-13....No other proposal from Feingold exists so your premise for this thread is wrong, wrong, wrong.


Source: Feingold Introduces Iraq Redeployment Act of 2007

Source: Feingold plan for Iraq loses lopsided vote; Just 13 senators support Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The - Find Articles

Murtha's "plan" has no teeth to it and will not even make it to the Senate no less to the President to sign. He is expressing his opinion as is his right as an American and as a Congressman.

So I must once again demand that you provide PROOF that Murtha and Feingold are cutting off funding to all troops and that they're now in danger because of it....or apologize to the Forum for not telling the truth, please.

washingtonpost.com

Murtha Stumbles on Iraq Funding Curbs
Democrats Were Ill-Prepared for Unplanned Disclosure, Republican Attacks

By Jonathan Weisman and Lyndsey Layton
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, February 25, 2007; Page A05

The plan was bold: By tying President Bush's $100 billion war request to strict standards of troop safety and readiness, Democrats believed they could grab hold of Iraq war policy while forcing Republicans to defend sending troops into battle without the necessary training or equipment.

But a botched launch by the plan's author, Rep. John P. Murtha (Pa.), has united Republicans and divided Democrats, sending the latter back to the drawing board just a week before scheduled legislative action, a score of House Democratic lawmakers said last week.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

The US mission officially now, is to LEAVE IRAQ!

Why? Because THE AMERICAN PEOPLE SAID SO!

The majority of American's in this country want the war to stop. They want it to end. If the current elected leaders in Washington cannot catch this clue, they will be voted out of office in the next election. And the one after that. And the one after that. This is an irrefutable fact that some see and some don't. The ones that don't, will be un-employed. Period.

The only ones that support this war now are the fanatical, anti-American right that should be arrested and charged with Crimes Against Humanity. The fanatical right is nothing short of Nazi's.

First off, realize that no one hates war more than the soldiers - simply because we have to bear the brunt of the killing and shedding of blood, while many others can complain but have the advantage of going home at night to watch Letterman.

Next, IMHO, you confuse the fact that though these slanted surveys show those Americans surveyed want the troops to come home - we want them to win first and come home after - that never seems to be part of these surveys.

Now, I am a combat vet from Nam - so do you want to call me an Anti-American and a Nazi ?????

Have you ever served in the military ???

 

[26 X World Champs]

With all due respect - it has been years since Congress actually was in tune with the "will of the people".

Very true which is why the Republicans were shown the door and booted out last November. America has spoken and what the majority wants are Democrats in the Congess and hopefully in the Executive Mansion two years from now.

And regardless of what Congress says or does - the Constitution of the United States specifies that the President is the Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces during wartime. Once Congress in accordance with the Constitution gives the President the authority to deploy the troops - their job is to give our Armed Forces everything needed to win the war - plain and simple.

Not exactly true. Congress can defund the war making it impossible to continue it. They can also pass a resolution that rescinds the authority mistakenly given to Bush in 2002.

Bush wanted war to find WMDs and to topple Saddam and we found out there weren't any WMDs and Saddam has been killed so the mission that was OK'd is over and the time for our troops to come home is now.

When America left Vietnam the scare tactic was that Communism would spread all over the world. It didn't happen. Vietnam today is a thriving and growing economy and even Bush visited it last year. Communism ended because the Soviets didn't learn the lesson of Vietnam and went to Afghanistan and that led to their downfall.

Just like the Soviets, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice et al didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam and Afghanistan and look where we are now! Back in an unwinnable war, a quagmire that is killing Americans and sucking our resources and making us MORE vulnerable than anytime since WWII.

So now the Bushies keep spreading the "If we leave Iraq the world will end" lie and too many of you still believe them even though almost everything they've told you about Iraq has been untrue, didn't work and has failed.

It's time to come home and not waste more American lives in a 21st century Vietnam.

 

[Fiercely Proud American]

Tex:

Navy Pride is correct to say the Democrat defunding plan is splattered all over the news, but you will not find a newspaper story outlining the Democrat plan to 'bug out' of Iraq by cutting the supply lines to the troops, because such an overt act of treachery against the military is not the way to win elections, and that is the only goal they care about. Since winning Congress, the liberal leadership has produced little or nothing of what they were promising their liberal base, including their ambitious plans to de-fund the war. They now prefer Murtha's plan, a more covert plan to accomplish the very same thing, but giving them a small amount of cover to allow them to claim support for the troops.

IMHO, it goes further than that. For almost three years now since the Democrats have been attacking President Bush on Iraq, I have never actually heard anyone of them come up with a viable plan - hell, they haven't been able to agree on "one" plan at all - and just a few months ago Murtha wanted to redeploy the troops to Okinawa - for those of you who don't know - Okinawa is in Japan and it's only down the road a piece - 6,000 miles :roll: :doh