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Fundamentalism

mikhail

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When it come to reiligion the one group who are always attacked are the fundamentalists "yes some fundamentalists may have done this or that but lets not judge everyone by that" Doesent that say something like "my religions great unless you fundamentally believe in it.

Lets contrast this with other ideas are you afraid of someone who is fundamentally polite? Can the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in following the law? Would you support firemen who believe in a moderate approach to putting out fires?

When people attack their own fundamentalist they may as well be saying "my beliefs are good but they are fundamentally wrong".

In short its ok to beilieve but lets not believe too much.
 

joe six-pack

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When it come to reiligion the one group who are always attacked are the fundamentalists "yes some fundamentalists may have done this or that but lets not judge everyone by that" Doesent that say something like "my religions great unless you fundamentally believe in it.

Lets contrast this with other ideas are you afraid of someone who is fundamentally polite? Can the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in following the law? Would you support firemen who believe in a moderate approach to putting out fires?

When people attack their own fundamentalist they may as well be saying "my beliefs are good but they are fundamentally wrong".

In short its ok to beilieve but lets not believe too much.
Points for a clever post.

In a sense, you are right. Fundamentally, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all promote killing infidels. Christians and Muslims promote converting non-believers (Jews don't). And the Old Testament promotes slavery, rape, murder and child-murder. But Christianity and Judaism have become modernized, Islam--in the Middle-east--has not.

Although this is a problem, it's the "radicals" and "militants" that cause the real issues. It's the abortion-clinic bombers and homeland jihads that raise eye-brows. "Fundamentally" believing in God and the 10 Commandments isn't a bad thing. It's all the BS in scripture, that contradict the image of a loving God, that is fundamentally a problem.

:peace
 
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CriticalThought

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More of an extremism problem than a fundamentalism problem, although the two correlate quite often.
 

mikhail

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CriticalThought

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Can you describe the difference between the two?

extremism: any political theory favoring immoderate uncompromising policies

fundamentalism: the interpretation of every word in the sacred texts as literal truth
 

rathi

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The Holy Books of all three Abrahamic religions were written more than a thousand years ago, when cultural values were different. Violence was common and accepted, woman were second-class citizens, slavery was legal ect. In modern western society, such values have changed. That means literally taking the old testament advice is a problem, because killing people declared witches would no longer be accepted. Modern religion has dealt with the situation by adopting religious codes to modern values.

Fundamentalists generally ignore modern morality and use literal readings of the nastier parts of the holy book as their guide. Sometimes they also invent draconian traditions, such as the case with Burka, which isn't even mentioned in the Koran.
 

digsbe

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I'm a fundamentalist Christian. I see no problem with it :shrug: People misjudge the Bible and don't know the image of God because they want to dishonestly contort my faith into something violent and sexist.
 

CriticalThought

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I'm a fundamentalist Christian. I see no problem with it :shrug: People misjudge the Bible and don't know the image of God because they want to dishonestly contort my faith into something violent and sexist.

You are not a fundamentalist Christian. You are an apologetic who has a semi literal interpretation. I can't imagine you run down to Walmart and kill all those who don't observe the Sabbath by working that day. I also don't imagine you avoid wearing clothes of more than one type of thread or stone adulterers.
 

digsbe

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You are not a fundamentalist Christian. You are an apologetic who has a semi literal interpretation. I can't imagine you run down to Walmart and kill all those who don't observe the Sabbath by working that day. I also don't imagine you avoid wearing clothes of more than one type of thread or stone adulterers.

The death penalties and laws in the Old Testament were part of the Constitution of Israel. The law has been done away with and has been replaced by the new covenant. The Law merited that adulterers be put to death, but Jesus said not to accuse nor condemn and that we have all sinned and should repent so we may live. Some things in the Bible are literal, and some are illustrative. The Bible doesn't ban jewelry or tattoos. It said for women not to wear jewelry with the believe that it was vain (as in that culture it was. Everyone was poorer and adorning oneself with jewelry was vain). They weren't to get tattoos because back then tattoos were ritualistic of pagan worship. Somethings are literal, and some things one is supposed to grab a concept from.
 

CriticalThought

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The death penalties and laws in the Old Testament were part of the Constitution of Israel. The law has been done away with and has been replaced by the new covenant. The Law merited that adulterers be put to death, but Jesus said not to accuse nor condemn and that we have all sinned and should repent so we may live. Some things in the Bible are literal, and some are illustrative. The Bible doesn't ban jewelry or tattoos. It said for women not to wear jewelry with the believe that it was vain (as in that culture it was. Everyone was poorer and adorning oneself with jewelry was vain). They weren't to get tattoos because back then tattoos were ritualistic of pagan worship. Somethings are literal, and some things one is supposed to grab a concept from.

It's once you use the word "illustrative" that you move away from fundamentalism. Illustrative is not literal, it is subject to yours or somebody else's interpretation.
 

Panache

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I'm a fundamentalist Christian. I see no problem with it :shrug: People misjudge the Bible and don't know the image of God because they want to dishonestly contort my faith into something violent and sexist.

"I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.

12 I will make man scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the LORD Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.

14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
each will return to his own people,
each will flee to his native land.

15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.

16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives ravished." - Isaiah 13:13-16

"As I listened, he said to the others, "Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion. 6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple." - Ezekiel 9:5-6

"At midnight the LORD struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh, who sat on the throne, to the firstborn of the prisoner, who was in the dungeon, and the firstborn of all the livestock as well." - Exodus 12:29

Yeah, your religion is clearly all fluffy bunnies and rainbows. All this violence stuff is obviously a gross misrepresentation...
 

Hoplite

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When it come to reiligion the one group who are always attacked are the fundamentalists "yes some fundamentalists may have done this or that but lets not judge everyone by that" Doesent that say something like "my religions great unless you fundamentally believe in it.

Lets contrast this with other ideas are you afraid of someone who is fundamentally polite? Can the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in following the law? Would you support firemen who believe in a moderate approach to putting out fires?

When people attack their own fundamentalist they may as well be saying "my beliefs are good but they are fundamentally wrong".

In short its ok to beilieve but lets not believe too much.
I think this misses a crucial point. Fundamentalists almost always re-interpret certain aspects of a religious belief, often to fit their own views of how a particular faith should work. Either that or they focus rather myopically on a certain aspect of their faith to the degree that others are ignored.
 

Civil1z@tion

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Books like the Bible are so long and complex, and with so many authors, that it is impossible to really coherently follow what they teach. The reason is of course because they don't teach a single philosophy except in a most bare-bones way. The Bible is contradictory (apologists try to argue otherwise but it takes so much mental straining and effort that even those that can produce some "explanation" for every contradiction are so far out on a limb that they simply aren't credible), and in many points its philosophy is contradictory. So being a real "fundamentalist" is impossible as there is no way to coherently incorporate all of the Bible's teachings together. Thus you are left either with simply ignoring parts of the Bible, or relying on a personal interpretation that has no more or less support than numerous other interpretations.

All fundamentalism is is an excuse to take the socially conservative and evangelical portions of the Bible and thereby give social conservativism religious support. Its no more linked or divorced from the Bible or the roots of Christianity than most liberal or mainline Christian denominations.
 

tacomancer

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I'm a fundamentalist Christian. I see no problem with it :shrug: People misjudge the Bible and don't know the image of God because they want to dishonestly contort my faith into something violent and sexist.

I feel the same way. I have no problems with Christians, but I do get irked at the ones who add stuff to it somewhat arbitrarily.
 

Ikari

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Can the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in following the law?

Oh most certainly! There are many abuses that can occur. Additionally and perhaps more threateningly the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in the absoluteness of their power. There are many ways in which fundamentalist approach, which in many cases refers to a very staunch and literal interpretation, can cause serious problems. I don't think it means that the underlying ideals are bad; but rather that a very strict interpretation of them, particularly literal interpretations of figurative or allegorical ideals, can in fact lead one to act in a way which isn't actually supported by the underlying philosophy. This is particularly true in religions where various interpretations of the same thing can lead to various results. It's not limited to theism either. What we would call fundamentalists for atheists are the anti-theists. People who blame religion for all the wrong and work in ways to destroy or eliminate religion. It's not a good move; but it doesn't mean that atheism is somehow invalid because of it.

Anything taken too strictly can lead to negative results. Fundamentalism in many subjects and philosophies can be bad. But that doesn't negate the validity of the subject or philosophy.
 

hallam

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When it come to reiligion the one group who are always attacked are the fundamentalists "yes some fundamentalists may have done this or that but lets not judge everyone by that" Doesent that say something like "my religions great unless you fundamentally believe in it.

Lets contrast this with other ideas are you afraid of someone who is fundamentally polite? Can the police become a problem if they fundamentally believe in following the law? Would you support firemen who believe in a moderate approach to putting out fires?

When people attack their own fundamentalist they may as well be saying "my beliefs are good but they are fundamentally wrong".

In short its ok to beilieve but lets not believe too much.

Fundamentalism is not a ubiquitous term here. People who are called fundamentalist in highly religious areas are far more stringent and extreme than people who are called fundamentalists in less religious areas. Hell, I would bet that fundamentalism in the North West is just attending church every Sunday or with any consistency. Even still, fundamentalists serve a function. They allow for people to see an extreme to counter balance those who only are "Christian" on surveys only.

It is not okay to strip fundamentalists from the religion because in most areas, IMO, they are the more correct practitioners. They may not be the most liked practitioner. But when you see the text and you see their practices, there is sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes high consistency between the two. Especially with Christianity, it tells us to do some pretty weird things compared to social norms. The more you follow these guidelines, the more you will ostracized. People want safety and sometimes religions give you the exact opposite. When this happens, the majority change the religion to fit the social norms instead of following what the religion says. Those who do follow it are generally considered fundamentalists.
 
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Councilman

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You cannot compare for example the fundamentals of fire fighting with a religious Fundamentalist. They are two very different things indeed.

Fundamentals are a foundation or basis; as in a basic set of guidelines.

A fireman must know the fundamentals or basics but must also be flexible so that different kinds of of fires can be fought using the best methods available.

Religious fundamentalism is rigged unbending and is immersed in the literal word of God or Allah and there is no room for any deviation from that belief permitted.

Fundamentalists are in my mind unreasonable because there are things we are told in the Bible some of the stories for example that are metaphoric teaching tools meant only to make us think and are not to be taken as literal.

Fundamentalism is dangerous because it quickly becomes my way or the highway and those who do not believe are labeled infidels or blasphemers, and therein lies the danger.

Some Christian Fundamentalist believe the world is only about 6,000 years old because they use figures they pulled from the Bible and all of the scientific evidence is meaningless yo them.

So learning the fundamentals of anything means we learn the basics, and Religious Fundamentalism whether Christian or in Islam means believing in the in the strictest literal meaning of the Bible or the Koran.

I hope this might have helped someone.
 

Councilman

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I meant to say Religious fundamentalism is ridged unbending. Not rigged what a dolt get in a hurry and screw up every time.
 

UtahBill

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I feel the same way. I have no problems with Christians, but I do get irked at the ones who add stuff to it somewhat arbitrarily.

IMO, there is much that needs to be removed....
 

Goshin

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The term "fundamentalist" has been abused and misused to the point that it has become nearly useless.

Fundamentalist Christianity is commonly misunderstood. Allow me to illuminate it a bit:

Fundamentalism had multiple roots in British and American theology of the 19th century[7]. One root was Dispensationalism, a rediscovery of early Christian premillenialism in the 1830s in England as an outgrowth of applying the historical-grammatical method of hermeneutics to all of the Bible. It was a millenarian theory that divided all of time into different stages, called "dispensations," which were seen as stages of God's revelation. The world in this theory is on the verge of the last stage in which Christ would return. An important sign is the rebirth of Israel, support for which is the centerpiece of Fundamentalist foreign policy.

A second stream came from Princeton Theology in the mid-19th century, which developed the doctrine of inerrancy in response to higher criticism of the Bible[8][9].

A third strand—and the name itself—came from a 12-volume study The Fundamentals, published 1910-1915[10]. Sponsors subsidize the distribution of over three million individual volumes were distributed free to clergy, laymen and libraries. This version[11]. stressed several core beliefs, including:

The inerrancy of the Bible
The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis.
The Virgin Birth of Christ
The bodily resurrection of Christ
The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross

Fundamentalist Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was orginally referred to as "fundamentals of Christianity", or a statement of what all those who profess to be Christians ought to believe, in the view of those publishing the list.

No where does "fundamentalist Christianity" advocate conversion by force or mass slaughter of non believers.
 

hallam

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I feel the same way. I have no problems with Christians, but I do get irked at the ones who add stuff to it somewhat arbitrarily.

The only problem here is that it is generally not fundamentalist adding arbitrary stuff to the religion . The more secular the church the more they add or remove "stuff" (usually practices and beliefs) to fit in with society so that those less religious members feel "more at home" and less presured. I am not saying that fundamentalists are not adding to their religions. But thier additions are less arbitrary and ususally have to be grounded in some type of text before these additons are adopted.
 

SingleCellOrganism

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Points for a clever post.

In a sense, you are right. Fundamentally, Judaism, Christianity and Islam all promote killing infidels. Christians and Muslims promote converting non-believers (Jews don't). And the Old Testament promotes slavery, rape, murder and child-murder. But Christianity and Judaism have become modernized, Islam--in the Middle-east--has not.

Although this is a problem, it's the "radicals" and "militants" that cause the real issues. It's the abortion-clinic bombers and homeland jihads that raise eye-brows. "Fundamentally" believing in God and the 10 Commandments isn't a bad thing. It's all the BS in scripture, that contradict the image of a loving God, that is fundamentally a problem.

:peace

Huh? Promotes rape?

I'm pretty sure the Christian philosophy doesn't promote rape or the killing of infidels... please provide a scripture so I can analyze.
 

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The inerrancy of the Bible
The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis.
The Virgin Birth of Christ
The bodily resurrection of Christ
The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross
Goshin is right on the money with this definition of fundamentalist Christianity.

Christian fundamentalism are in opposition to liberal Christianity which is:
- a serious and collaborative engagement with the modern intellectual tradition, which translates to lots of theology that engages and reflects philosophy
- a commitment to intellectual rigor and honesty in a modern context (evidence, logic, science, new learning, enlightenment)
- commitment to methods that reflect and are enabled by the first two points, including new forms of biblical interpretation
- a rejection of literalism, know-nothingism etc
- a pattern or reappropriating, in very rigorous and honest ways, the christian tradition in ways that apply to current contexts and needs
Now, this kind of liberal christianity can if it likes also emphasize the uniqueness of the christian message vs. modern culture .
 
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