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Functioning Capitalism vs. Less Immigration

Functioning Capitalism vs. Less Immigration

  • Total voters
    6
Right. And how do people live on zero income? Maybe if the goverment entitlement system didn't just hand them money they would choose to work because they had to survive. I don't blame the people for taking the easy path, rather I blame our goverment for enabling them to sit there and do nothing all day.
 
Biden purposefully opened the borders then spent 4 years denying he did so. Why would he do that? Trump closed the border all by himself in a few weeks. So Biden and the dems lied the entire time. Why? Because they wanted to flood the US with migrants. The dems have long had a goal of changing the demographics of the country because they feel they have a lock on minority votes. Once they are in, it is hard to remove them, and the left fights that removal at every turn. Why is that? Uncurious minds of the left dont want to know. Or they already know. The next step would be to argue that it is impossible to get them out, so they would create a path to citizenship and these new 'citizens' would owe their loyalty to the party that made it possible for them to be here--the democrats. Did this really need to be explained to you? Really?
 

Unemployment has been growing steadily since mid-2023, and has stayed pretty much right where Biden left it.
 
Noodlegawd said:
You didn't make an argument. Why should he?
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The argument is that Capitalism and Less Immigration are at odds. Isn't that kind of an empirical fact in a society with a decreasing birthrate? You can't extract value from people without people.
 
Fletch said:
I support immigration as well. Legal immigration. Ooops, thats right, Im not allowed to say that.
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You're allowed to say it, just without the credibility that are associated with the words. Anyone can say anything.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The argument is that Capitalism and Less Immigration are at odds.
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That's not an argument. That's a claim, just like what Mycroft said. An argument consists of the words you say to back up your claim.

Dans La Lune said:
Isn't that kind of an empirical fact in a society with a decreasing birthrate? You can't extract value from people without people.
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It would be "an empirical fact" if you had sufficient evidence for it. Actual empirical facts suggest otherwise, such as:
  • There are millions of unemployed people in the US who are citizens who want to work.
  • There are millions more who could work, but choose not to (including millions who are collecting assistance from our vastly in-debt government).
  • It is widely accepted, or at least credibly feared, that AI will put millions more people out of work in the coming years, at all levels.
  • To the extent there are any shortfalls in available labor, despite the first three facts, we can fill them by bringing in as many immigrants as we need LEGALLY, and by choice, rather than simply accepting the fact that many will sneak in and take those jobs under the table.
 
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Noodlegawd said:
That's not an argument. That's a claim, just like what Mycroft said. An argument consists of the words you say to back up your claim.
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No, an argument is based on existing facts. If we acknowledge those facts, then the underlying assertion is satisfied.

Noodlegawd said:
It would be "an empirical fact" if you had sufficient evidence for it. Actual empirical facts suggest otherwise, such as:
  • There are millions of unemployed people in the US who are citizens who want to work.
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Immigrants Do Not Displace US Workers or Reduce Wages

Recent increases in immigration to the United States correlate with more jobs and higher wages for U.S.-born workers.
immigrationimpact.com

  • Increases in immigrant populations between 2000 and 2019 did not correspond with a displacement of U.S.-born workers. Immigrant workers did not crowd out or take jobs from U.S.-born workers.
  • Increases in immigrant populations were associated with increases in the proportion of U.S.-born citizens who were employed during this time period. These increased employment rates were apparent among both full-time workers and other workers.
  • An increase in immigration did not lower the wages of U.S.-born workers. In fact, the inflow of immigration from 2000 to 2019 was associated with a 1.7% to 2.6% increase in the wages of S.-born workers with a high school degree or less. This group’s wages experienced a decline over this period, after adjusting for inflation; that decline would have been more pronounced without the increase in immigrants.
  • From 1980 to 2019, the researchers estimated that an increase of 10% in immigration was associated with wage increases of 0.2% for full-time U.S.-born workers and 0.3% for all U.S.-born workers. From 2000 to 2019, a 10% increase in immigration corresponded to wage increases of 0.1% for full-time U.S.-born workers and 0.2% for all U.S.-born workers.

Noodlegawd said:
  • There are millions more who could work, but choose not to (including millions who are collecting assistance from our vastly in-debt government).
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Who are you to say they can work? Did you examine them?

Noodlegawd said:
  • It is widely accepted, or at least credibly feared, that AI will put millions more people out of work in the coming years, at all levels.
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That's for another discussion. I believe AI will make capitalism unsustainable and have made posts detailing why. Lets stick to things as they are now.


Did you know that immigrants pay into benefits and without receiving them? Such as Social Security? Immigrants are sustaining these programs at their current levels without benefiting from them.
 
dmpi said:
Immigrant workers (which is only a subset of immigrants) shouldn't be a substitute for American workers unwilling to get a job and join the workforce.
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Why not? If there are jobs that need to be filled, why should people willing to work and apply for jobs not be a substitute for those who do not want to work and are not applying for jobs? How does that make sense?

What, are we going to forcibly draft able-bodied but non-working Americans into the workforce and ship them via bus or cattle car to wherever they are needed to make up for all the hard-working immigrants we are deporting? Perhaps you would propose we start press-ganging a bunch of rural Wisconsin or Ohio 20 year-olds and ship them to California to pick strawberries?
 
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Dans La Lune said:
You're allowed to say it, just without the credibility that are associated with the words. Anyone can say anything.
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Right, no opposing viewpoints to anything you say has credibility. Carry on by yourself then.
 
Not sure you would get much opposition to people being allowed in on work visas once they were vetted. Its letting in everyone without any idea of who they are or what they are coming here for that people oppose.
 
Fletch said:
Right, no opposing viewpoints to anything you say has credibility. Carry on by yourself then.
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I think some people are ideologically irredeemable, and can only be defeated. Then we can build a better society so the conditions which created that ideology seldom reemerge, and when they do, cannot gain political power.
 
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