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Full Lara Lee footage of Mavi Marmara storming

alexa

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The full footage of the film smuggled out by Lara Lee which I believe she has given to the United Nations has been on youTube now for a day or two.

It tells of the wait that the passengers had, five hours I think for the attack. It appears an overwhelming response to a peaceful flotilla which has already been searched for weapons. As I watched the tension was palpable.

You can hear them say that they had started moving further from Gaza as they were not wanting this interaction. That is they say they were not wanting violence. They are also well into International Waters. The footage still does not in any way give full details of what happened. Both the fighting by activists with Israeli soldiers and the shooting dead of activists is not in her footage.

At one point you can hear if you listen carefully one of the English speaking people saying 'they are not like us, they want to fight' . That obviously went against what was agreed in the organisation of the journey.

That of course brings it back to whether it was legal for Israel to attack the boat and that is a very contested issue. If the Israeli attack was not legal then of course they did have the right to fight even though they were going against what was agreed earlier. They certainly believed that Israel had no right to intercept them at the time.

From Israel's place. She got these people believing they were going to die. Whatever reason you wish to blame these people for attempting a fight, calling them terrorists or whatever, many people when they feel they are about to die, fight back. To me that tension and that feeling is something I did feel from the lara lee footage

I think we should also be aware that the flotilla has been prepared to hand over all footage they have. Lara Lee did not for instance edit out the part where the English speaking person said 'they want to fight' and she did not edit a person sharpening a knife and so on. Israel has not presented full footage. She has only presented material which makes her appear in a better light.

YouTube - Israeli Attack on the Mavi Marmara // Raw Footage
 
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Apocalypse

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Thanks for the video alexa.
Although parts from this video were already published by the activists before.

By far the video bases the Israeli version, since we can see some of the activists up in arms before the helicopter reaches the ship. It also shows that, as Israeli officials said, there was a group of people that has divided itself from the rest of the activists and has started the violence.
The video doesn't catch the real violence that was going on the top deck, which is quite unfortunate, but it does manage to catch a few activists wielding metal bars, slingshots and knives.
It also shows the activists attacking the Israeli speed boats and the soldiers on them, screaming "Allah hu'Akbar", before they've even boarded the ship, and the soldiers using the paintball guns.
 

alexa

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Thanks for the video alexa.
Although parts from this video were already published by the activists before.
They provided a 'taster' of I think around ten minutes. This is one hour long and gives a great deal more information.

By far the video bases the Israeli version, since we can see some of the activists up in arms before the helicopter reaches the ship.

I cannot agree on all you said. Timing of events is still not clear to me. If anything from her video and the sounds of bangs and gunshots, whether this was live fire, rubber bullets or paint balls or a mixture it seemed to me that the Israeli's were firing at the boat before there was any reaction. One of the reasons why it would have been better if people had been able to keep their footage so that it could be pieced together. Lara Lee for instance believes that if she had all her equipment she would probably be able to do that. It also gives an indication of the size of the military involvement which was enormous for an unarmed convoy.

It also shows that, as Israeli officials said, there was a group of people that has divided itself from the rest of the activists and has started the violence.
It does show that some of the activists decided to fight back but it c ertainly does not show that they started the violence. The Israeli attack on the boat started the violence as far as I could see.
The video doesn't catch the real violence that was going on the top deck, which is quite unfortunate, but it does manage to catch a few activists wielding metal bars, slingshots and knives.
It also shows the activists attacking the Israeli speed boats and the soldiers on them, screaming "Allah hu'Akbar", before they've even boarded the ship, and the soldiers using the paintball guns.
Israel had stopped them from going further into international waters and was attacking them with overwhelming force. Clearly the people who decided to fight would be using whatever psychological whatnot is their ilk. I think one of the difficulties is that it would seem, and we certainly have seen this is other threads, that Israel, or yourself representing Israel, sees things in a black and white way. Young children throwing stones are terrorists. Israelis killing civilians is unavoidable and so on.

What is necessary is to see if a way could have happened whereby this situation could have been avoided. Taking on these people in high seas with as is shown in the video overwhelming force does not seem the best way to secure a peaceful settlement. Does Israel not consult psychologists before making undertakings. There were no weapons on this boat, as are usually called weapons when meeting an army.

If and many people say it was, it was illegal for Israel to attack and board this boat then Israel will be in hot water because what is legal is what is legal.

Things are rarely as black and white as you wish to present and Israel's calling them all terrorists immediately and releasing recordings which she later had to retract does not help. The multiple wounds on the dead, one reportedly at point blank range also need investigation and the 4-6 who have 'disappeared'.

It has though finally got Gaza or even the whole Palestinian situation on the world agenda

Even or perhaps especially in our hyper-connected world, it seems only a finite number of truly global causes can be sustained at any one time. Palestine is now irrefutably on that list.
A glimpse of the future - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News
 
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Apocalypse

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They provided a 'taster' of I think around ten minutes. This is one hour long and gives a great deal more information.
I know, I've watched it all.
Simply wondering why they haven't released it earlier if they could.
I cannot agree on all you said. Timing of events is still not clear to me. If anything from her video and the sounds of bangs and gunshots, whether this was live fire, rubber bullets or paint balls or a mixture it seemed to me that the Israeli's were firing at the boat before there was any reaction.
Actually we can see the activists throwing stuff at the boat before any firing noise is being heard, and we can see that the activists aren't running anywhere while doing this, showing that they aren't being fired on.
Besides that we clearly see the soldiers reacting with paintball fire, and if we could see this then I have no doubt that the activists could as well.
Of course all this is irrealvent since on another video released by the activists there was an American activist saying that the soldiers are firing paintballs on them.
One of the reasons why it would have been better if people had been able to keep their footage so that it could be pieced together. Lara Lee for instance believes that if she had all her equipment she would probably be able to do that. It also gives an indication of the size of the military involvement which was enormous for an unarmed convoy.
The size of the military involvement was known before the video was released, we've already known it was some speed boats and a hellicopter.
It does show that some of the activists decided to fight back but it c ertainly does not show that they started the violence. The Israeli attack on the boat started the violence as far as I could see.
As far as I could see it doesn't show the activists fighting back, but starting the violence.
They have fired slingshots at the speed boats that were nearing their boat, and that's when the soldiers have faught back and have shot paintball at them.
Israel had stopped them from going further into international waters and was attacking them with overwhelming force. Clearly the people who decided to fight would be using whatever psychological whatnot is their ilk. I think one of the difficulties is that it would seem, and we certainly have seen this is other threads, that Israel, or yourself representing Israel, sees things in a black and white way. Young children throwing stones are terrorists. Israelis killing civilians is unavoidable and so on.
I think that one of the difficulties is that it would seem, and we certainly have seen this in other threads, that the anti-Israeli camp, or yourself representing the anti-Israeli camp, sees things in a black and white way. Activists attacking soldiers unprovoked are "fighting back", Israeli soldiers fighting for their lives are "using disproportionate force", etc.
What is necessary is to see if a way could have happened whereby this situation could have been avoided. Taking on these people in high seas with as is shown in the video overwhelming force does not seem the best way to secure a peaceful settlement. Does Israel not consult psychologists before making undertakings. There were no weapons on this boat, as are usually called weapons when meeting an army.
Indeed, more peaceful settlements were tried. Israel, as we know, has offered the activists to peacefully come to the Ashdod's port and let Israel deliver the aid.
Of course such peaceful settlements were refused by the activists, so there was no choice but to stop the ships, and that's when the activists have unfortunately decided to use violence against the soldiers.
If and many people say it was, it was illegal for Israel to attack and board this boat then Israel will be in hot water because what is legal is what is legal.
The law says that it was a completely legal action, as the inquiry would most probably report.
Things are rarely as black and white as you wish to present and Israel's calling them all terrorists immediately and releasing recordings which she later had to retract does not help. The multiple wounds on the dead, one reportedly at point blank range also need investigation and the 4-6 who have 'disappeared'.
I think that this is far from being a black and white situation as you perceive it to be.
It was a complicated situation, the soldiers have boarded the ship and were immidately attacked, their lives were in clear danger and they had to react.
I think that the amount of bullets in the activists' bodies represents the fight and struggle that was going on, since they were shot at from close range it is safe to assume that they were attacking the soldiers with cold weapons.
It has though finally got Gaza or even the whole Palestinian situation on the world agenda
It is very unfortuante that the anti-Israeli camp has to create blooshed to promote its political causes.
 

alexa

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I know, I've watched it all.
Simply wondering why they haven't released it earlier if they could.
Actually we can see the activists throwing stuff at the boat before any firing noise is being heard, and we can see that the activists aren't running anywhere while doing this, showing that they aren't being fired on.
Besides that we clearly see the soldiers reacting with paintball fire, and if we could see this then I have no doubt that the activists could as well.
Of course all this is irrealvent since on another video released by the activists there was an American activist saying that the soldiers are firing paintballs on them.
The size of the military involvement was known before the video was released, we've already known it was some speed boats and a hellicopter.
As far as I could see it doesn't show the activists fighting back, but starting the violence.
They have fired slingshots at the speed boats that were nearing their boat, and that's when the soldiers have faught back and have shot paintball at them.
I think that one of the difficulties is that it would seem, and we certainly have seen this in other threads, that the anti-Israeli camp, or yourself representing the anti-Israeli camp, sees things in a black and white way. Activists attacking soldiers unprovoked are "fighting back", Israeli soldiers fighting for their lives are "using disproportionate force", etc.
Indeed, more peaceful settlements were tried. Israel, as we know, has offered the activists to peacefully come to the Ashdod's port and let Israel deliver the aid.
Of course such peaceful settlements were refused by the activists, so there was no choice but to stop the ships, and that's when the activists have unfortunately decided to use violence against the soldiers.
The law says that it was a completely legal action, as the inquiry would most probably report.
I think that this is far from being a black and white situation as you perceive it to be.
It was a complicated situation, the soldiers have boarded the ship and were immidately attacked, their lives were in clear danger and they had to react.
I think that the amount of bullets in the activists' bodies represents the fight and struggle that was going on, since they were shot at from close range it is safe to assume that they were attacking the soldiers with cold weapons.
It is very unfortuante that the anti-Israeli camp has to create blooshed to promote its political causes.
I have looked again at the video. From this video the first I can see is Israeli's firing. People can of course look for themselves. I am not interested in getting into any silly repetitive drama on this. I just wanted to let people see the video.

However, You do realise that it is at least as plausible that Israel deliberately met this flotilla with such force because they knew there would be some people on board who if they thought their lives were at risk would attempt to fight.

Now I must attend to other things.
 

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It also shows the activists attacking the Israeli speed boats and the soldiers on them, screaming "Allah hu'Akbar", before they've even boarded the ship, and the soldiers using the paintball guns.
I wonder if their supporters would also treat them as heroes if, instead of being totalitarian Islamists of a different ethnicity who want to kill Jews, they were Christian extremists of the same ethnicity who want to kill Gay people? I'm avidly awaiting the Landover Baptist flotilla cruising into San Francisco Bay invoking the name of their deity by screaming "God hates Fags".

I guess everybody has to have those they admire, but why does it have to be knuckle dragging troglodytes?
 
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