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From whence do the ethical values of atheists derive?

But only the Qur'an passes the falsification test. Your loss.

Where do you live? What country?
Would you run the risk of being jailed (or worse) if some authority figure in your community found out you posted something contrary to that comment above?

What "falsification test" are you referring to?
Please be specific as there's absolutely no concrete proof any god exists anywhere.
 
But only the Qur'an passes the falsification test. Your loss.

You made that up. A Christian would argue the Bible is the only thing that passes the subjectively defined "falsification test".

You're just taking your own subjective opinion and slapping a "god" label on it to try to add credibility. I enjoy being free and not being a Muslim. Enjoy burning in Christian hell.
 
Where do you live? What country?
Would you run the risk of being jailed (or worse) if some authority figure in your community found out you posted something contrary to that comment above?

What "falsification test" are you referring to?
Please be specific as there's absolutely no concrete proof any god exists anywhere.
You think I sympathise with blasphemers and the likes?
 
You think I sympathise with blasphemers and the likes?


If that's all it takes to convince you something is real, it's no wonder you believe the crap you believe.

Also - what do you think should happen to blasphemers?
 
Allah has explicitly informed you of that matter.

When did he do that? Where did he do that? What is his address or phone number so I can confirm your claim?
 
You think I sympathise with blasphemers and the likes?

There is only one criteria and that is the lack of objective and tangible evidence of some of the Quran's claims.


It claims, for example, the Djinn exist.

Show me a Djinn. Do not give an excuse to say that you can't, but tell me how to find and detect a Djinn. Until you do , the Quran can be considered false.
 
There is only one criteria and that is the lack of objective and tangible evidence of some of the Quran's claims.


It claims, for example, the Djinn exist.

Show me a Djinn. Do not give an excuse to say that you can't, but tell me how to find and detect a Djinn. Until you do , the Quran can be considered false.
That's a really dumb argument. :roll:
 
If that's all it takes to convince you something is real, it's no wonder you believe the crap you believe.

Also - what do you think should happen to blasphemers?
It depends. For some there's execution.
 
A conscience is what stops me from cheating on my wife. It is anecdotal to running a functional society.

You don't need god to tell you that cheating on a spouse is maybe not the best choice in the world.
You just need to not be a complete knob.
 
That's a really dumb argument. :roll:

Do you believe that Djinn exist? That is a claim in the Qur'an, isn't it?

Yes or no?
 
You don't need god to tell you that cheating on a spouse is maybe not the best choice in the world.
You just need to not be a complete knob.

Why is having sex with someone who isnt your wife bad? Because your wife thinks its bad? Why does she think its bad? Where does that morality come from? Other cultures have had bigomy and not considered it bad and their society did ok.
 
Depends on what?

What minimal level of blaspheme justifies execution? Provide an example.
:roll: On the circumstances. Who, what, where, why, how, etc.

Sorry, not a scholar or a judge. Can't help you.
 
Do you believe that Djinn exist? That is a claim in the Qur'an, isn't it?

Yes or no?
Yes there are jinn. Prove they don't exist. :lol:

I'm sorry. I simply don't have interest in "prove there's God", "prove there are angels", "prove satan exists" and other such nonsense. I have things of value to do. I can't waste time arguing with someone who refuses to use his intellect. :shrug:
 
Yes there are jinn. Prove they don't exist. :lol:

I'm sorry. I simply don't have interest in "prove there's God", "prove there are angels", "prove satan exists" and other such nonsense. I have things of value to do. I can't waste time arguing with someone who refuses to use his intellect. :shrug:

The fact no one can show that they do exist demonstrate that they don't. The absence of evidence FOR them is indeed evidence against them.
 
I was perhaps a bit sloppy in the title of my previous thread, so it got off-track from what I was expecting. As such, I am trying to start over and clarify here.
“Believers” claim that moral authority comes from God and that since atheists “don’t believe in God”, that somehow allows them to simply do whatever they want without respect to ethics.
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

I know the answer, of course. This thread is more to provide an education for the theists in this forum, although atheists, like Democrats, have a notoriously rebellious streak in many case and so there may indeed be some debate about the source of ethics.

Humanism for me. But Atheists is a very broad term and don't have a unifying aspect beyond not believing in any gods.
 
So, what stops you from doing so? A conscience, perhaps?

If you are going to argue that a conscience is god, you're barking up the wrong tree. A conscience can be explained as being evolutionary beneficial within a social/communal species like humans.
 
Yes there are jinn. Prove they don't exist. :lol:

I'm sorry. I simply don't have interest in "prove there's God", "prove there are angels", "prove satan exists" and other such nonsense. I have things of value to do. I can't waste time arguing with someone who refuses to use his intellect. :shrug:

How would my intellect tell me that imaginary beings exist? Intelligent people ask questions. You can't answer them.
 
If you are going to argue that a conscience is god, you're barking up the wrong tree. A conscience can be explained as being evolutionary beneficial within a social/communal species like humans.


True.
 
Allah has explicitly informed you of that matter.

nope never met the the guy and only humans ever talk about em and he seems kind of ****ed up
 
I'm going to revive this thread a bit back to the original question re: from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive?

Many have said that the only commonality between atheists is that they deny the existence of an entity termed "God" by "believers".
While that is probably true, many atheists have also replied in this thread that they obtain their personal ethics in a manner that can be described as "Humanism", which is to say by using their reason to determine which values are best for a society to exist in harmony for the long term and by testing those values by comparing them to the values of other humans in order to come to a commonality.
Yes, I would be willing to bet that if you sat down a bunch of atheists to discuss their individual values on a face-to-face basis that there would indeed be a general commonality established as to the derivation of those values, and it could indeed be shown to be a form of Humanism.
 
Well, there are a number of possiblity, and speculations.

Some might say 'Atheist values come from god, even if they don't believe that'

Others might say it comes from reason, intelligence, passion, and enlightened self interest.

Still others will say atheists don't have ethical values.
 
So my query then becomes from whence do the ethical values of atheists derive if not from God.

From the same place as everyone else's. From what surrounds us. Society, family, culture, philosophy, faith.

If a believer thinks that autohority derives from the commandments, then it would follow that an atheist would not consider those laws divinely inspired, but invented by humanity.
So if an atheist believes that humanity created the morals in those laws, then why shouldn't an atheist be able to come up with something similar, albeit slightly different?
 
Morals come from human interaction. Every religion seems to have the same tenets: don't kill, don't steal, oppress others; lie, cheat, rape or commit incest or adultery or bugger animals. The more peaceful factions say they rules applies to everyone; the more militant ones that some can be waived in dealings with enemy nations or religions. But they all say fundamentally the same. Why? Because these are the actions that hurt others and fracture communities. So religious values are broadly human values.

So for atheists it's no different. They don't need a deity to attribute the values to. They are human values anyway. Atheists are more likely to be lax on some things like dietary rules, gays, abortion - things that are less specific in various religions or depend on how strict adherents are - but the fundamental ones in the first line are more or less the same.
 
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