From WashPo: Politics Judge strikes down Obama health law insurance subsidy

[Lafayette]

PRICE OF "MIRACLE DRUGS" IS LESS THAN MIRACULOUS

I get that you wealth obsessed liberals focus only on what other people make, but there is no industry more heavily regulated in the US (with the possible exception of the banking industry) than the health care industry.

And since when were profits and salaries "regulated" in the pharmaceutical industry ... ?

Let me give you an idea of the same industry in two different markets, one the EU and the other US. From here: How The US Subsidizes Cheap Drugs For Europe. Excerpt:

The price of a medical miracle varies by country. Imatinib -- also known as Gleevec -- was hailed as a miracle cure to treat chronic myeloid leukemia, a rare type of cancer, upon the drug's approval in 2001. In the U.S., a year of treatment cost $92,000 in 2013. Everywhere else in the world, including in developed countries, it cost far less. Germany’s price tag was $54,000. In the U.K., it was $33,500 for annual care.

Medicines in the U.S. frequently cost significantly more than the same versions in other advanced countries. The ongoing scrutiny over drug pricing systems, in the spotlight this week following the decision of Turing Pharmaceuticals to raise the price of its drug Daraprim from $13.50 per pill to $750, has reignited debate over price controls in the U.S. But what often goes overlooked in these discussions is the fact that pricey medicines in the U.S. actually subsidize research and development for the rest of the world, and for all the proposals to lower drug prices in the U.S., a solution to this particular imbalance is nowhere in sight.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Uncle Sam!

ANECDOTAL, ABOUT "DARAPRIM"

The guy who boosted the Daraprim price from $13.50 to $750 did so on an anti-SIDA pill the patent of which ended in the 1970s. See the history of the drug's availability here. The rights to the name of the drug were sold, but the property-rights of the patent are defunct.

Anyone can produce the drug and sell it under another name. Just ask any pharmaceutical company in India, where its market price is anywhere between 4 and 10 cents a pill ...
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[joG]

You joking? Weird sense of humour.

This is the sole opinion of a judge, appointed by a Dunderhead PotUS, who is having a joy-ride on the ObamaCare controversy. Yet another one eager to show her allegiance "to the cause".

And to think, taxpayer money is being spent on such nonsense.

Have a look at how Banana Republic political mischief works in South and Central America, then we can talk about its Replicant-analogy in the US ...
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Oh. You think that your political ideology justifies breaking the Constitutional oversight on spending by Congress? That is quite ordinary, but not really a sign of a politically safe hand.

 

[natsb]

A lot of post in this tread are missing the point. The OP is not about whether Obama Care is a good idea or not. It is not about the wonders of socialized medicine.

The Court ruling was only about whether or not a sitting president can spend money that was not appropriated by Congress.

Therefore the only two directions for this are:

a) Do we abide by the Constitution and restrict control of the purse strings to Congress?

b) Do we ignore the Constitution and allow a President to spend whatever he or she wants on whatever they want too?

 

[Frank Apisa]

You mean you think that it is okay to dedicate $178 Billion subsidies in perpetuity outside the Congressional budget? That is off the wall.

Actually, what I mean is that the legal arguments overturning it on appeal...will also sound solid. I think conservative America has been trying to defeat this very modest step in the right direction for years now and the entertainment value of their silly attempts have pretty much worn out.

We'll see if my guess about what will happen is correct.

That's what I meant.

 

[joG]

Actually, what I mean is that the legal arguments overturning it on appeal...will also sound solid. I think conservative America has been trying to defeat this very modest step in the right direction for years now and the entertainment value of their silly attempts have pretty much worn out.

We'll see if my guess about what will happen is correct.

That's what I meant.

Oh, the conservatives are right that the law is very poorly made and should be replaced by one no longer than say 20 pages. Also insurance should pay for itself not be allowed to require subsidies. Making the law so complicated was a travesty. But the Republicans have been wimps and have not put their vote, where their mouth are.

But you are right that a legal opinion will often sound sturdy. This is especially true, when it involves sloppy, long and complex laws.

 

[Lafayette]

I can't imagine being on meds that long or off work that long.

Yes, Americans are addicted to their work. (It would help if they were paid accordingly.)

The US is the sole developed country on earth in which workers give vacation-time back to their companies. I told that to a class of French students and they all laughed.

At a bar, another Yank told me that he went to his office to finish some work on a Sunday. He was told by the watchman to leave because he was not "supposed to be there".

Different strokes for different folks ...

 

[ocean515]

Yes, Americans are addicted to their work. (It would help if they were paid accordingly.)

The US is the sole developed country on earth in which workers give vacation-time back to their companies. I told that to a class of French students and they all laughed.

At a bar, another Yank told me that he went to his office to finish some work on a Sunday. He was told by the watchman to leave because he was not "supposed to be there".

Different strokes for different folks ...

Yes, the work ethic is one of the cornerstones that has turned the United States into the superpower that it is. It's one of the reasons for the concern over the "immigration" crisis. People who don't share this ethic should be focusing on France, or some other socialist country, that rewards a less driven personality and lifestyle.

 

[Southern Dad]

I think it will be overturned on appeal...because almost all of the law has been looked at carefully...and the courts have ruled that it is sound.

We'll see if I am correct...and if I am, the appeals judges (who have a much better knowledge of the applicable law than I)...will tell us why it is overturned.

This person who made this ruling was a judge, too. Now, the appellate court that this is in, is it mostly Republican appointees or Democrat appointees. Because in this day that will make a huge difference. And if there is not a 9th member of the court by the time this gets there, or if that 9th member is a conservative, it could be serious.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Yes, the work ethic is one of the cornerstones that has turned the United States into the superpower that it is. It's one of the reasons for the concern over the "immigration" crisis. People who don't share this ethic should be focusing on France, or some other socialist country, that rewards a less driven personality and lifestyle.

Or attempting to get our national ducks in a row on stuff like this...despite the fact that we will have to fight the conservative champions of the Barons tooth and nail to achieve it.

We will achieve it, though. We'll finally get out from the grip of this 19th century mentality.

 

[Frank Apisa]

This person who made this ruling was a judge, too. Now, the appellate court that this is in, is it mostly Republican appointees or Democrat appointees. Because in this day that will make a huge difference. And if there is not a 9th member of the court by the time this gets there, or if that 9th member is a conservative, it could be serious.

Everything you said is appropriate.

I do not know the composition of the appellate court...and it is a sad thing that we must take its political composition into consideration.

I just think this was a judge making a questionable decision...and I am HOPING it is overturned.

I may strike out.

We will see.

 

[Southern Dad]

My wife says, kidney stones are the test you cannot pass.

No kidding... Well, they will pass sooner or later but then while they are passing you will be wishing they weren't.

 

[Southern Dad]

Everything you said is appropriate.

I do not know the composition of the appellate court...and it is a sad thing that we must take its political composition into consideration.

I just think this was a judge making a questionable decision...and I am HOPING it is overturned.

I may strike out.

We will see.

But let's think about it, is this use of this money no appropriated by the congress legal? There have been many exceptions and modifications to the ACA not made through the congress.

 

[Frank Apisa]

But let's think about it, is this use of this money no appropriated by the congress legal? There have been many exceptions and modifications to the ACA not made through the congress.

I'd rather have the judges think about it.

I suspect our considerations might be ever so slightly clouded by our individual sensibilities.

 

[Southern Dad]

I'd rather have the judges think about it.

I suspect our considerations might be ever so slightly clouded by our individual sensibilities.

I think there are many problems with the ACA. It is a huge bill shoved through in a hurry. Like for example, the medical device tax. No one, not even those that voted for it think that was a good idea now. The thought of course, was that the law could be managed and tweaked with further laws in the future. I don't think any Democrats thought that, as the President said, there would be a shellacking in 2010 at the polls causing the Democrats to lose the House. "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it..."

 

[Lafayette]

POLITICAL QUACKERY

You think that your political ideology justifies breaking the Constitutional oversight on spending by Congress? That is quite ordinary, but not really a sign of a politically safe hand.

Yes, the judge's ruling was not impartial and just "nagging from the bench" likely incited by her friends in the Replicant Party. Perhaps she's bored and looking for a political career?

Nothing would surprise me since the point she makes is a minor point-of-accounting. The Replicants voted to pass the ObamaCare law that had no budgeting-foundation? That makes them look kinda stoopid, even incompetent, doesn't it?

Excerpt:

Collyer's decision doesn't immediately go into effect, however, so that the administration can appeal it.

“This is an historic win for the Constitution and the American people," Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) [of course!] said in a statement. "The court ruled that the administration overreached by spending taxpayer money without approval from the people's representatives."

At issue are billions of dollars paid to insurance companies participating in ObamaCare so they can reduce customers' out-of-pocket costs, such as deductibles for low-income people.
The House GOP argued that the administration was unconstitutionally spending money on these payments without Congress's approval.

But the administration said it did not need an appropriation from Congress because the funds were already guaranteed by the healthcare reform law in the same section as its better-known tax credits that help people pay for coverage.

Collyer ruled that the section only appropriated funds for tax credits and said the cost sharing reductions require a separate congressional appropriation, which the administration does not currently have.

“Such an appropriation cannot be inferred,” Collyer wrote. “None of Secretaries’ extra-textual arguments — whether based on economics, ‘unintended’ results, or legislative history — is persuasive. The Court will enter judgment in favor of the House of Representatives and enjoin the use of unappropriated monies to fund reimbursements due to insurers under Section 1402.”

Unlike previous ObamaCare lawsuits, this one is not expected to deal a crippling blow to the law if Republicans ultimately prevail. [Thank God for small favours!]

A study from the Urban Institute found that a GOP victory would force insurers to make a major adjustment and hike premiums, but government subsidies would increase to help make up the difference and the system would likely not face major negative consequences. [Wonkery is alive and well in LaLaLand on the Potomac!]

Still, the case adds a major element of uncertainty to a healthcare system trying to adapt to ObamaCare.

"This is not the first time that we've seen opponents of the Affordable Care Act go through the motions to try to win this political fight in the court system," said White House press secretary Josh Earnest. Earnest said Republicans are trying to "refight a political fight that they keep losing. They've been losing this fight for six years, and they'll lose it again."

He added the lawsuit is unprecedented in terms of its effect on the constitutional separation of powers. "This suit represents the first time in our nation's history that Congress has been permitted to sue the executive branch over a disagreement about how to interpret a statute," he said.

But it is not the last time that Replicant political-quackery will try to upset Obama. There is an element of Radical Republicanism that is simply OTT and pushed to the extreme. It just wont give up - and neither will its supporters on this forum who are beating a dead-horse.

Obama is gone in 8-months. Not soon enough for you (plural)?

QUESTION TIME

Answer-me this question: With the highest per capita HealthCare Costs, why are we (as a nation united) not looking for a more effective and efficient (lower cost) solution?

Answer please ... !

 

[joG]

POLITICAL QUACKERY



Yes, the judge's ruling was not impartial and just "nagging from the bench" likely incited by her friends in the Replicant Party. Perhaps she's bored and looking for a political career?

Nothing would surprise me since the point she makes is a minor point-of-accounting. The Replicants voted to pass the ObamaCare law that had no budgeting-foundation? That makes them look kinda stoopid, even incompetent, doesn't it?

Excerpt:

But it is not the last time that Replicant political-quackery will try to upset Obama. There is an element of Radical Republicanism that is simply OTT and pushed to the extreme. It just wont give up - and neither will its supporters on this forum who are beating a dead-horse.

Obama is gone in 8-months. Not soon enough for you (plural)?

QUESTION TIME

Answer-me this question: With the highest per capita HealthCare Costs, why are we (as a nation united) not looking for a more effective and efficient (lower cost) solution?

Answer please ... !

It is a pity that we wasted the opportunity and created a poorly designed law that has saddled us with all sorts of stupid and foreseeable problems.

 

[Southern Dad]

I looked up that districts appellate court. It has 2 Clinton appointees. 3 Bush appointees. 3 Obama appointees. 1 Vacant seat. I'd say that most likely the appellate court will overturn this judge's ruling. Elections have consequences, one of them is being able to stack the deck in your favor when it comes to judges. If this suit had come to the appellate court prior to 2011 or 2012, it might have worked.

 

[Lafayette]

It is a pity that we wasted the opportunity and created a poorly designed law that has saddled us with all sorts of stupid and foreseeable problems.

A pity for you, but not the poor ... which is how it is seen in the EU.

ObamaCare was what he could get from a recalcitrant Replicant HofR as of the midterms of 2010. Perhaps the Replicants expected him to just give up? Surely, an underestimation of the man.

The Replicants shot-down HillaryCare, then they agreed to this misfit version called ObamaCare.

How many times must I put up the same infographic showing that privatized American HealthCare costs twice as much per person as elsewhere in any developed-nation?

If that is not a monumental waste of money, then what is? Maybe yet another war over in the Sandbox? Let's kick-ass in Syria!

Will that satisfy the Replicant necessity to waste money on useless military adventures around this planet ... ?
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[joG]

A pity for you, but not the poor ... which is how it is seen in the EU.

ObamaCare was what he could get from a recalcitrant Replicant HofR as of the midterms of 2010. Perhaps the Replicants expected him to just give up? Surely, an underestimation of the man.

The Replicants shot-down HillaryCare, then they agreed to this misfit version called ObamaCare.

How many times must I put up the same infographic showing that privatized American HealthCare costs twice as much per person as elsewhere in any developed-nation?

If that is not a monumental waste of money, then what is? Maybe yet another war over in the Sandbox? Let's kick-ass in Syria!

Will that satisfy the Replicant necessity to waste money on useless military adventures around this planet ... ?
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Incresingly the poor and those in the middle in Germany are beginning to get restive, as the promises made them are whittled away. The worst off are those 50 and above that cannot replace the health services at payable costs, as they are in age brackets where entry prices are prohibitive compared to people that entered at 16 and shunned the public insurance system. Oh, no. Social programs for private goods are always bad and democracies make the problem worse, because so many people do not understand the economics that drive public vs private goods.

 

[Greenbeard]

If Ryan's convinced the cost-sharing subsidies need an appropriation, then he should be working on getting an appropriation through.

 

[Lafayette]

Yes, the work ethic is one of the cornerstones that has turned the United States into the superpower that it is.

You've got your economics wrong on this one.

That which generates income, key to any market-economy, is productivity OECD figures (GDP per hour worked, PPP):
France: 59.9
Germany: 58.9
UK: 47.4
USA: 62.4

The US has one of the finest economic productivity-rates on record.

And for what, one might ask given its comparative Income Inequality (OECD), one of the worst in the OECD:


What sort of accomplishment is that when the result of all our hard work is to the benefit of a select few within the population?

Answer the question ...
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[Lafayette]

The worst off are those 50 and above that cannot replace the health services at payable costs, as they are in age brackets where entry prices are prohibitive compared to people that entered at 16 and shunned the public insurance system.

What a crock of you-know-what.

From WikiPedia, and about German Health Insurance:

Health insurance in Germany is split in several parts. The largest part of 89% of the population is covered by a comprehensive health insurance plan provided by statutory public health insurance funds regulated under specific legislation set with the Sozialgesetzbuch V (SGB V), which defines the general criteria of coverage, which are translated into benefit packages by the Federal Joint Committee. The remaining 11% opt for private health insurance, including government employees.

Social programs for private goods are always bad and democracies make the problem worse, because so many people do not understand the economics that drive public vs private goods

Apparently including yourself ...

 

[joG]

What a crock of you-know-what.

From WikiPedia, and about German Health Insurance:



Apparently including yourself ...

I am not sure what you want to say.

 

[JumpinJack]

Judge strikes down Obama health law insurance subsidy in victory for House GOP

Excerpt:


Evidently, the Replicants have nothing better to do than keep sniping at ObamaCare, one of the more fundamental necessities of a developed nation. Every Social Democracy (meaning all of the EU, with almost twice the population of the US) on earth has a National HealthCare System. The purpose of which is to keeps costs affordable by mandating practitioner/pharmaceutical prices and avoiding privatized insurance. Even our neighbor Canada!

Except the US, and the rude consequence is real and tangible in terms of life-span. As described here: View attachment 67201292

Note from the above that Americans have a life-span that is about 3-years less than that of the EU countries!
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Well, we don't have universal single payer coverage. We have Obamacare, which places a great and unfair burden on the middle-middle class, forcing them to buy insurance that is barely usable, to pay for better coverage for others. It's one of the worst, most unfair programs our government has ever pulled on the public. Though it's counted as insurance, the reality is that the government pays billions of dollars to the ins. cos. for policies that are minimally useful to many insureds, such as HMOs that are not accepted by most providers, high deductibles that the insureds cannot pay, policies that don't cover most prescription medications, and the like.

The ACA is the worst of the two parts of a healthcare system. The taxpayers pay the huge subsidies, and ordinary non-wealthy citizens suffer the brunt of the direct blows.

Who will come to the rescue of the American public? It's looking like the court system may.

 

[kanabco]

Many of us read the writing on the wall. The ACA was the camel's nose under the tent. Next comes the public option and then Medicare for all. Can't be stopped in my opinion.