French flag tribute to Pope sparks left-wing anger

[Urethra Franklin]

There's the French Government for you.

Arch waits for Mr Franklin to check this out and come up with some total bs.

You haven't been reading any of my posts if you think I'm going to defend a right wing government like the current French one.

The lowering of the flag in France was inapropriate. We are a secular republic. On many buildings it remained raised and that's perfectly correct.

As for trashing dead people:
1) the pope trashed the living, so let's go for it
2) he's dead. Nothing we say can hurt him now

 

[Urethra Franklin]

He was the religious leader for over 1.1 BILLION people, and had more (positive) worldwide impact than arguably anyone else in the 20th century.

You forget to mention how many of those people are trapped in communities or families where they would be ostracised if they dared to disagree. Many are stuck in crappy marriages and they carry on paying lip service to the church for the sake of mum and dad, or for the kids. As a survivor of a catholic upbringing and education (I'm still in recovery) I can tell you how many of these sheep flocking to Rome just daren't do or say otherwise. It's a church of fear based on prosletyse and ostracise.

Still, the pope's death will be good for business. One only has to go somewhere like Lourdes or Mejugore to see how much the church loves to impersonate the merchants Jesus threw out of god's house. The candle making nuns and the wine brewing monks will have the production lines on overtime. The world will be awash with plastic popes and JP2 pendants. Shame they closed the Magdeleine laundries in Ireland - just think of the work they could have got out of those wayward wenches. The cardinals will be rubbing their hands with glee - money money money.

 

[RightinNYC]

True. And the vast majority of people shooting doctors at abortion clinics are right wing zealots. I wouldn’t classify either as being the norm in either movement. Lack of support for the war doesn’t not directly translate to hatred of our troops. I didn’t think the war was an intelligent move, but do support the troops. I’ve done several things, I’m not going to go into that here and now, to support our troops. Suffice it to say my support far exceeds slapping a $3 magnet to the bumper of my truck.

However you may characterize it, there have been far fewer abortion attacks than there have been incidents where people from the far left pray for the deaths of more American troops. Hell, we get two columns a week on it in our school paper. This carries over into starting riots, fighting police officers, eco-terrorism, "peaceful" protests that devolve into fights. These activities are generally rooted in leftist causes.

Really? I volunteered for the Kerry campaign and went to a rally where Michael Moore spoke. His was constantly interupted and about half way through his speech a guy rushed, then jumped on the stage and threw what looked like an fake “Oscar” at him.

I hadn't heard of this, but again, this seems like one incident, whereas for the left, it's pandemic. It's happened 3 times that I've heard about in the past few weeks, to Ann Coulter, William Kristol, etc.

Re: Coulter - I'll check it out. Hell, even if she's wrong, I'll still think she's good looking.

 

[RightinNYC]

You forget to mention how many of those people are trapped in communities or families where they would be ostracised if they dared to disagree. Many are stuck in crappy marriages and they carry on paying lip service to the church for the sake of mum and dad, or for the kids. As a survivor of a catholic upbringing and education (I'm still in recovery) I can tell you how many of these sheep flocking to Rome just daren't do or say otherwise. It's a church of fear based on prosletyse and ostracise.

Still, the pope's death will be good for business. One only has to go somewhere like Lourdes or Mejugore to see how much the church loves to impersonate the merchants Jesus threw out of god's house. The candle making nuns and the wine brewing monks will have the production lines on overtime. The world will be awash with plastic popes and JP2 pendants. Shame they closed the Magdeleine laundries in Ireland - just think of the work they could have got out of those wayward wenches. The cardinals will be rubbing their hands with glee - money money money.

Well, I guess your horrible experience with the Catholic church obviously means that it must be the same for most of the other billion or so followers.

Glad to see you're not bitter, nor bear any resentment, either.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

Well, I guess your horrible experience with the Catholic church obviously means that it must be the same for most of the other billion or so followers..

For many of them yes.

Glad to see you're not bitter, nor bear any resentment, either.

You young man, wouldn't be so free with your foul tongue if you had any understanding of the suffering some people endure at the hands of that wicked institution. Try talking to some gays, people who dared to divorce or the Irish girls who went through the Magdeleine laundries. My own experience was mild, but I have compassoon for others. I suppose you think Jews just have a chip on their shoulder about the Nazis? Blacks shouldn't be bitter about slavery I suppose? (one of your nation's great foundations).

 

[shuamort]

However you may characterize it, there have been far fewer abortion attacks than there have been incidents where people from the far left pray for the deaths of more American troops.

You have a cite for that claim? I'd love to see the study of far left people actually praying for US Troop deaths.

 

[Urethra Franklin]

You have a cite for that claim? I'd love to see the study of far left people actually praying for US Troop deaths.

Exactly.
Most far left people know better than to believe in prayer.

 

[RightinNYC]

You young man, wouldn't be so free with your foul tongue if you had any understanding of the suffering some people endure at the hands of that wicked institution.

Right. Any time I disagree with you saying something like, oh, I don't know, "Because I had a bad experience, that means nobody else must have gotten anything good out of it," that must be because I'm a foul young man.

Try talking to some gays, people who dared to divorce or the Irish girls who went through the Magdeleine laundries. My own experience was mild, but I have compassoon for others. I suppose you think Jews just have a chip on their shoulder about the Nazis? Blacks shouldn't be bitter about slavery I suppose?

Did you just compare the Holocause and Slavery to the Vatican's disapproval of lifestyles that they don't find acceptable? Last time I checked, if you didn't want to follow the Vatican's rules, you didn't have to. Or can you tell me when the Christapo came to your house and killed your family?

 

[RightinNYC]

You have a cite for that claim? I'd love to see the study of far left people actually praying for US Troop deaths.

In the past month, there was an op-ed in my school paper from the Anti-War Network imploring us to have solidarity with the insurgency, and to support their actions to "defend their homeland from the US terrorists."

That stirred up some debate on campus, and was furthered when a Professor said that (paraphrasing) "Any person from the US over there deserved what they got."

Small scale, yes, but I haven't heard anyone on the right cheering for the death of soldiers.

It's a common theme on places like Democratic Underground as well.

 

[Pacridge]

However you may characterize it, there have been far fewer abortion attacks than there have been incidents where people from the far left pray for the deaths of more American troops. Hell, we get two columns a week on it in our school paper. This carries over into starting riots, fighting police officers, eco-terrorism, "peaceful" protests that devolve into fights. These activities are generally rooted in leftist causes.

I honestly don’t know. I know there’s a lot of attacks at clinics. Either way I think both sides are wrong when they sink to such tactics and think that neither is the mainstream of either. To say that everyone in the right is completely anti-violence is a bit of a stretch to me. Who exactly are these people on the left fighting? Takes two to dance doesn’t it? Or are they hunting down good right wing citizens, dragging them out of their homes and beating them?

I hadn't heard of this, but again, this seems like one incident, whereas for the left, it's pandemic. It's happened 3 times that I've heard about in the past few weeks, to Ann Coulter, William Kristol, etc..

On this I just think you’re completely wrong. I went to several rally’s during the campaign and at every one there were people from the right heckling and causing a disturbance. Many times they were arrested for throwing thing at or on the stage. During one such disturbance a man rushed the staged and Al Franken, who was a wrestler in high school evidently, tackled him. I heard this incident described on Rush and Rush, as usual, lied. Said Franken, with out provocation, just assaulted this guy. Then threw out of the meeting hall. Rush told his listeners that “there’s just no logical reason why Franken's not sitting in a jail cell as I speak folks, as I speak, as I speak!.” I saw the whole thing on the Sundance channel later that evening and Rush, as usual, was full of cr*p. The man was screaming foul language at the speaker and then ran toward the stage, pushing other‘s out of his way. Franken and another man tackled him and carried him to the door.

So maybe it is that you travel in right wing circles and hear of incidents that occur to the right and just aren’t hearing about it when it happens to those on the left. But it happens all the time to those on the left as well. In fact I’d be willing to bet, and bet big, due to Bush’s “loyalty pledges” it happened way more often to the left then to the right during this past election. Again I think when people do cr*p like this they’re being complete moron’s.

Re: Coulter - I'll check it out. Hell, even if she's wrong, I'll still think she's good looking.

Many people have outer physical beauty while maintaining and ugly inner person. Ann’s one of them. She spews vile hateful lies all while accusing other’s of that exact same thing.

 

[shuamort]

In the past month, there was an op-ed in my school paper from the Anti-War Network imploring us to have solidarity with the insurgency, and to support their actions to "defend their homeland from the US terrorists."

That stirred up some debate on campus, and was furthered when a Professor said that (paraphrasing) "Any person from the US over there deserved what they got."

Small scale, yes, but I haven't heard anyone on the right cheering for the death of soldiers.

It's a common theme on places like Democratic Underground as well.

Ahh, so they haven't prayed for their death nor are they wishing death on them either. Yes, it's nitpicking, but it's the blanket statements about partisan politics that deflect from real issues. Feel free to bring up specific points that parties or people are actually making, let's just not attribute personal perceptions from them as it doesn't lend anything to a debate for either side.

 

[anomaly]

To most people, Lenin and Stalin aren't very different. And I wouldn't exactly classify them of the same "caliber of dead guy" as the pope. As I said earlier, "trashing a dead man" like Yassir Arafat is different.

Sorry to interrupt whatever debate was taking place, but how are Lenin and Stalin remotely similar? Stalin destroyed the very thing Lenin created! And yes, trashing a dead man like Arafat is different, but that gives Catholics (and right-wingers in general) no right to compare Lenin to Stalin and Hitler.

 

[Pacridge]

Sorry to interrupt whatever debate was taking place, but how are Lenin and Stalin remotely similar? Stalin destroyed the very thing Lenin created! And yes, trashing a dead man like Arafat is different, but that gives Catholics (and right-wingers in general) no right to compare Lenin to Stalin and Hitler.

Yes, saying Lenin and Stalin weren't very different isn't a very well informed statement, IMO.

 

[Squawker]

26 x World Chamos said:

The use of generalizations to bash the left is, in itself a true reflection of the author's hate for liberals, the same hate he professes that disgusts him. Isn't that what being a hypocrite is defined as?

Let me make this a bit clearer for you. I didn’t generalize anything, and I don’t hate anyone. I specifically said “the extremists.” The following is some of the milder posts I ran across. This is in America, not France where they are probably saying even worse things.

Clearly the news that the Pope is being fed through a nasal tube was intentionally leaked to add to the Schiavo controversy. Although I generally have disapproved of most of what the Pope has said in his life, I never thought he would sink this low. Shame on him.

JP’s problem is and always has been his heart is filled with hate. We can only hope his judge is more merciful than his victims.

Now that the pope is dead we're all supposed to applaud him, but to me he was just another misled fool trying to misleed others.

I hope God hands him some condoms and makes him meet all the gay people up there.

Pacridge said:

I see, so this is talking about individual people basically? I could easily go find posts from conservatives that want Michael Moore dead, Or are going to dance on the grave of Bill Clinton when he dies. Hate isn't something that either movement owns or is free from. I listen to Rush and Hannity all the time, it's all my local radio station plays in the afternoon. They both spew hateful vile stuff all the time. They then claim liberals are hateful. Ann Coulter wrote a book- “Slander” In it she claims that Liberals are the reason for the political discourse in this country. In it she also claims that, among other things, liberals hate America more then Islamic terrorists do. Well at least that answers my question as to why all these liberals are taking flight lessons.

I don’t get to listen to Rush or Hannity very often, but I have never heard “vile hateful stuff” from either one. I am not an Ann Coulter fan, so I don’t know about her. Are you honestly putting the likes of Michael Moore and Bill Clinton on the same level as the Pope?

Urethra Franklin said:

You young man, wouldn't be so free with your foul tongue if you had any understanding of the suffering some people endure at the hands of that wicked institution. Try talking to some gays

Try talking to some of the children that were victims of gay priests while your at it. I don’t hate the Pope for what the priests did, but if I did, I wouldn’t bring it up at until he was in the grave.

Pacridge said:

So maybe it is that you travel in right wing circles and hear of incidents that occur to the right and just aren’t hearing about it when it happens to those on the left. But it happens all the time to those on the left as well. In fact I’d be willing to bet, and bet big, due to Bush’s “loyalty pledges” it happened way more often to the left then to the right during this past election.

If that is indeed occurring, I think just maybe the right is fed up with the BS from the left wing extremists. I know I am sick of hearing how rotten and stupid Republicans are.

Shaumort said:

Yes, it's nitpicking, but it's the blanket statements about partisan politics that deflect from real issues. Feel free to bring up specific points that parties or people are actually making, let's just not attribute personal perceptions from them as it doesn't lend anything to a debate for either side.

That is good advice, thank you. The thread started out talking about the left wing “extremists” and “Progressives”, in the world. The lefties circled the wagons again, and point fingers at the right. "See, See --- they do it too. We aren’t the bad ones – they are". I think we all play in the sand box, and do better than that.

 

[GarzaUK]

Sorry to interrupt whatever debate was taking place, but how are Lenin and Stalin remotely similar? Stalin destroyed the very thing Lenin created! And yes, trashing a dead man like Arafat is different, but that gives Catholics (and right-wingers in general) no right to compare Lenin to Stalin and Hitler.

I disagree with America's spinned view on communism as evil etc. I also know Soviet Russia was never a pure communist state. While Stalin was pure evil, Lenin did have political murders and tested poisons, gases etc on political prisoners, if they didn't die, they were shot. Also the murder of the Tsar Royal Family were horrendous acts of everything dear to humanity. Killing children in cold blood is one of the most despicable thing a human can do.

Lenin wasn't as evil as Stalin, but he had lots of blood on his hands, the hole Red movement of Russia did.
Marx meant communism to thrive in a industralized nation (Germany) not a arigcultral one (Russia, China), that's why probably communism has never been achieved and the dismal human rights records.

 

[Squawker]

26 x World Chamos said:

The use of generalizations to bash the left is, in itself a true reflection of the author's hate for liberals, the same hate he professes that disgusts him. Isn't that what being a hypocrite is defined as?

Let me make this a bit clearer for you. I didn’t generalize anything, and I don’t hate anyone. I specifically said “the extremists.” The following is some of the milder posts I ran across. This is in America, not France where they are probably saying even worse things.

Clearly the news that the Pope is being fed through a nasal tube was intentionally leaked to add to the Schiavo controversy. Although I generally have disapproved of most of what the Pope has said in his life, I never thought he would sink this low. Shame on him.

JP’s problem is and always has been his heart is filled with hate. We can only hope his judge is more merciful than his victims.

Now that the pope is dead we're all supposed to applaud him, but to me he was just another misled fool trying to misleed others.

I hope God hands him some condoms and makes him meet all the gay people up there.

Pacridge said:

I see, so this is talking about individual people basically? I could easily go find posts from conservatives that want Michael Moore dead, Or are going to dance on the grave of Bill Clinton when he dies. Hate isn't something that either movement owns or is free from. I listen to Rush and Hannity all the time, it's all my local radio station plays in the afternoon. They both spew hateful vile stuff all the time. They then claim liberals are hateful. Ann Coulter wrote a book- “Slander” In it she claims that Liberals are the reason for the political discourse in this country. In it she also claims that, among other things, liberals hate America more then Islamic terrorists do. Well at least that answers my question as to why all these liberals are taking flight lessons.

I don’t get to listen to Rush or Hannity very often, but I have never heard “vile hateful stuff” from either one. I am not an Ann Coulter fan, so I don’t know about her. Are you honestly putting the likes of Michael Moore and Bill Clinton on the same level as the Pope?

Urethra Franklin said:

You young man, wouldn't be so free with your foul tongue if you had any understanding of the suffering some people endure at the hands of that wicked institution. Try talking to some gays

Try talking to some of the children that were victims of gay priests while your at it. I don’t hate the Pope for what the priests did, but if I did, I wouldn’t bring it up at until he was in the grave.

Pacridge said:

So maybe it is that you travel in right wing circles and hear of incidents that occur to the right and just aren’t hearing about it when it happens to those on the left. But it happens all the time to those on the left as well. In fact I’d be willing to bet, and bet big, due to Bush’s “loyalty pledges” it happened way more often to the left then to the right during this past election.

If that is indeed occurring, I think just maybe the right is fed up with the BS from the left wing extremists. I know I am sick of hearing how rotten and stupid Republicans are.

Shaumort said:

Yes, it's nitpicking, but it's the blanket statements about partisan politics that deflect from real issues. Feel free to bring up specific points that parties or people are actually making, let's just not attribute personal perceptions from them as it doesn't lend anything to a debate for either side.

That is good advice, thank you. The thread started out talking about the left wing “extremists” and “Progressives”, in the world. The lefties circled the wagons again, and point fingers at the right. "See, See --- they do it too. We aren’t the bad ones – they are". I think we can all play in the sand box together, and do better than that.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Try talking to some of the children that were victims of gay priests while your at it. I don’t hate the Pope for what the priests did, but if I did, I wouldn’t bring it up at until he was in the grave.

People who sexually abuse children are neither gay nor straight - they are paedophiles. But if you really want to play that game, then most child sex abusers do so to children of the opposite sex, so I guess we should call them straight?

Don't look down - you might see how thin the ice is.

 

[Pacridge]

Pacridge said:

I don’t get to listen to Rush or Hannity very often, but I have never heard “vile hateful stuff” from either one. I am not an Ann Coulter fan, so I don’t know about her. Are you honestly putting the likes of Michael Moore and Bill Clinton on the same level as the Pope?

I listen to them both all the time and they both spew hate and falsehoods constantly.

I’m not putting anyone on any level. All I’m saying is I’ve heard many on the right make hateful comments directed at people just like the comments people were pointing out were being directed towards Jean Paul II.

Or are you saying that it ok since those on the left aren’t as good of people and or deserve to be called names and have hateful things said about them?

Pacridge said:

If that is indeed occurring, I think just maybe the right is fed up with the BS from the left wing extremists. I know I am sick of hearing how rotten and stupid Republicans are.

It’s occurring, and both sides are guilty.

So it’s just the right engaging in BS due to the lefts BS? Sounds a little like “Mom!, Johnny looking at meeee!” “He was looking at me first!” “No I wasn’t.”

 

[RightinNYC]

Sorry to interrupt whatever debate was taking place, but how are Lenin and Stalin remotely similar? Stalin destroyed the very thing Lenin created! And yes, trashing a dead man like Arafat is different, but that gives Catholics (and right-wingers in general) no right to compare Lenin to Stalin and Hitler.

My point is that the vast majority of people know nothing about Lenin or Stalin, and thus associate the two. And the truth is that most people couldn't care less if there were a difference. It happened 80 years ago, in a country far, far away, and it really doesnt have a day to day impact on people's lives.

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying that I can understand why people wouldn't bother to distinguish between the two.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I don’t get to listen to Rush or Hannity very often, but I have never heard “vile hateful stuff” from either one. I am not an Ann Coulter fan, so I don’t know about her. Are you honestly putting the likes of Michael Moore and Bill Clinton on the same level as the Pope?

Oh really? How about this recent spew of HATE from Sean Hannity?

http://www.oliverwillis.com/files/hannityvmoran.mp3

What were you saying about "vile hateful stuff"?

The website source is:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/2235

Needless to say, this is NORMAL for Hannity.

It's my pleasure to nail him! :hammer:

 

[Pacridge]

Oh really? How about this recent spew of HATE from Sean Hannity?

http://www.oliverwillis.com/files/hannityvmoran.mp3

What were you saying about "vile hateful stuff"?

The website source is:

http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/2235

Needless to say, this is NORMAL for Hannity.

It's my pleasure to nail him! :hammer:

To be fair this is Hannity off air, though it certainly shows what he really thinks of people. When he’s on air he’s much more likely to be hateful by accusing the left of being hateful. Almost every time I’ve fact checked him on this it turns out he’s taking things out of context or just plain lying. Not every time. But almost every time. And they’re not little lies, they’re vile hateful lies aimed at making his listeners really despise the left. he then has the ba*ls to runs ads that claim if you listen to him he'll give you the "real facts." Complete load O'cr*p.



But I'm telling you I listen to his lying BS almost everyday. Anytime I drive my truck anywhere during the weekday I get him, Rush or Harvey. I try to plan my travels around Harvey. At least all he does now is try to sell me stuff. He didn’t use to be like that. 15 or 20 years ago I really like his show. Now it’s just a big long commercial, page three, good day.

Seriously I’ve got to get my CD player fix or get one of these “Sirus” satellite systems.

 

[anomaly]

To be fair this is Hannity off air, though it certainly shows what he really thinks of people. When he’s on air he’s much more likely to be hateful by accusing the left of being hateful. Almost every time I’ve fact checked him on this it turns out he’s taking things out of context or just plain lying. Not every time. But almost every time. And they’re not little lies, they’re vile hateful lies aimed at making his listeners really despise the left. he then has the ba*ls to runs ads that claim if you listen to him he'll give you the "real facts." Complete load O'cr*p.



But I'm telling you I listen to his lying BS almost everyday. Anytime I drive my truck anywhere during the weekday I get him, Rush or Harvey. I try to plan my travels around Harvey. At least all he does now is try to sell me stuff. He didn’t use to be like that. 15 or 20 years ago I really like his show. Now it’s just a big long commercial, page three, good day.

Seriously I’ve got to get my CD player fix or get one of these “Sirus” satellite systems.

Could you give an example of a time you fact checked Hannity (or Rush) and they were lying, or taking something out of context?

 

[shuamort]

Could you give an example of a time you fact checked Hannity (or Rush) and they were lying, or taking something out of context?

Here ya go. AND it's a video clip. A delicious, delicious video clip.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Could you give an example of a time you fact checked Hannity (or Rush) and they were lying, or taking something out of context?

Here are 15 examples....

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=91585

 

[Pacridge]

Could you give an example of a time you fact checked Hannity (or Rush) and they were lying, or taking something out of context?

Honestly I've basically stopped fact checking them some time ago, so I guess it's plausible that they're both somehow starting being honest now. Though I highly doubt that.

Recently I heard Hannity claim that John Kerry wasn’t ever actually in combat in Vietnam. I think that claim was early March or late Feb. This is from the same guy who once told his listeners that during combat, during a firefight- Kerry shot a “poor kid, in a loin cloth in the back.” At that time he said. “Oh sure the kid had had a rocket launcher but had dropped it and was running away- then Kerry just shot him in the back.” So apparently in Hannity’s world six or seven months ago Kerry was in combat and suddenly now he wasn’t. And apparently, in Hannity's world, as long as you’re not facing forward the enemy can’t shoot you during war. I sure wish our guy’s at Omaha Beach would have known this during WWII we could have just back up to the beach and the Germans wouldn’t have been able to shoot us- not in the back. Boy the Germans would have been pissed.

Lately, Rush has been telling his listeners that the Pope really didn’t oppose the Iraq war. That's not what I heard the Holy Father say.