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French—Italian tensions escalate over Libya, migrants

Abbazorkzog

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How France and Italy’s Rivalry Is Hurting Libya
And How the Palermo Conference Can Help
By Federica Saini Fasanotti and Ben Fishman

Since the 2011 revolution against Muammar al-Qaddafi, Libyans have often blamed outside actors for their continuing woes. Too frequently, this grievance has been overstated and used as an excuse to minimize the hard compromises that Libyans themselves need to undertake to achieve a durable peace. Over the last year, however, both France and Italy have played a more intrusive role in Libyan politics, undermining rather than supporting the UN-led peace initiative. Italy’s new populist government has introduced anti-immigration measures that threaten to keep hundreds of thousands of migrants stranded in Libya, with potentially disastrous results. At the same time, the French-Italian rivalry over migration, the future of Europe, and the question of whether Paris or Rome should be the leading international voice on Libyan affairs is compounding Libya’s already serious problems.

Italy is now organizing an international conference on Libya set for November 12–13. Rome has an opportunity to help the UN advance several crucial elements of its peace efforts, including organizing Libyan national elections and reaching a lasting security arrangement. Conversely, if the Italian government uses its conference to sideline UN Libya envoy Ghassan Salamé, fight publicly with the French, and trumpet its policies on migration, it will further confuse Libya’s chaotic politics.

However, French-Italian differences are motivated more by politics than by divergent interests in Libya. Macron considers himself—and France—to be the standard bearer for the EU, defending liberal values and international cooperation in a time of rising populist nationalism. Naturally, he sees the new Italian government as a threat to his political vision. In a June 21 speech, Macron compared the spread of populism to “leprosy” and warned Europeans against those who “hate Europe”—a thinly veiled reference to the Italian government. Italy’s Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio, the leader of the M5S, fired back, “The real leprosy is the hypocrisy” of Macron, who in June had criticized Italy’s stance on migration but refused to allow a rescue ship with 600 migrants to dock in France. Macron doubled down on his views in his September speech to the UN General Assembly, proclaiming, “France will be there to ensure the world does not forget that the din of nationalism always leads to the abyss.” With France’s Libya policy run out of the Élysée and Salvini serving as the most powerful figure in Italy’s coalition, this rivalry is sure to persist—at the expense of Libyans.

Related:

Italy brand France a 'disgrace' after police dump migrants across border

Tensions between the neighbors have risen as Rome has accused Paris of hypocrisy by refusing to take in a fair share of the hundreds of thousands of migrants who have reached Italy by boat since 2014.

This is more hilariously stupid than it is concerning in my opinion. Napoleon and Germanicus must be rolling in their graves. I guess my only question is, do the French surrender before Italy can retreat? :)
 

Hawkeye10

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Rubbing out Muammar al-Qaddafi...that is the current dictionary definition for "Screwing the Pooch" right?

It should be, and remember that Hillary had a lot to do with that.

At enormous costs to the West.

THANKS OBAMA!
 

Abbazorkzog

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Rubbing out Muammar al-Qaddafi...that is the current dictionary definition for "Screwing the Pooch" right?

It should be, and remember that Hillary had a lot to do with that.

At enormous costs to the West.

THANKS OBAMA!

You say that Hillary had a lot to do with it (which is incorrect, she just fallaciously claimed credit) yet then put "Thanks Obama" in all caps and bolded letters. :thinking
Also, your post is like 99% off topic, congratulations.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Wow, the amount of ****ing morons in the comment section of this video. Staggering levels of stupidity. Just... staggering...


Older videos but relevant.
 

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Wow, the amount of ****ing morons in the comment section of this video. Staggering levels of stupidity. Just... staggering...


Older videos but relevant.
Actually (without looking a the videos) it suffices to regard the idiocy of having voted the extreme right and the extreme left, for those to then have formed a coalition that in turn forms a government.

With one of them (left) endeavouring to pour free gifts onto everybody, while the other (right) wants to lower all taxes on those still able to pay any, both agreeing to finance the idiotic scheme by even more colossal debt and the demand of Europe bailing them out of the inevitable default, on the principle that Italy is too big too be allowed to fail.

If ever a country had no business being allowed into the EU, we need look no further.

And that assessment predates this current bunch of irresponsible idiots by decades.
 

Abbazorkzog

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With one of them (left) endeavouring to pour free gifts onto everybody, while the other (right) wants to lower all taxes on those still able to pay any, both agreeing to finance the idiotic scheme by even more colossal debt and the demand of Europe bailing them out of the inevitable default, on the principle that Italy is too big too be allowed to fail.

Its mind-boggling that they could be this stupid and smug. I mean, with the way things are set up over there in Europe (from what I gather) Italy has essentially been able to hold West Europe hostage by raking these people via negotiative filibuster/filibustery negotiation over the ****ing coals. Notwithstanding Europe with its history is one of the last places on Earth you want to play with the socioeconomic dynamite of politically-charged economic warfare (particularly of the ethno-****-nationalist variety).

Although Italy and France couldn't actually go to war due to geography reasons, there is a concern that this could bring about an "International Years of Lead" or something of that brand, perhaps stretching across European-North African borders however.
 

NoC_T

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beerftw

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Libya is pretty much not going to go their way, overthrowing their dictator led to a massive black genocide in the country as well as warring factions making the country look worse than somalia. Currently the country is slowly being controlled by the now semi backed by russia but not really it's a secret general who is almost a mirror of the former dictator, with the legitimate govt recognized by the un now nearly non existant except in the capital.

They basically overthrew a dictator just to end up returning to the status quo but causing mass suffering death and genocide in the process, might as well not bother with libya at this point.
 

Rogue Valley

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Last week Libyan military representatives met at the Russian MoD with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov, etc.

But there was also a civilian in attendance.....

Drod6HeWsAElizL.jpg


Drp8AjnW4AIYCrR.jpg


The civilian in the dark blue suit is Russian oligarch and Putin crony Yevgeny Prigozhin. Prigozhin owns Wagner Group, which is the largest mercenary (PMC) company in Russia (mercenary companies are illegal in Russia). Wagner often works with the Russian military when the MoD wants deniability (as in eastern Ukraine. Prigozhin also owns the Internet Research Agency, better known as the Russian Troll Factory. When Putin denies that the Russian state is meddling in US elections, you know he is lying. The owner of the Troll Factory is sitting here with Russia's highest military leaders.

[video=youtube;Vp4e8u71o20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?Vp4e8u71o20[/video]
 

PoS

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Libya is pretty much not going to go their way, overthrowing their dictator led to a massive black genocide in the country as well as warring factions making the country look worse than somalia. Currently the country is slowly being controlled by the now semi backed by russia but not really it's a secret general who is almost a mirror of the former dictator, with the legitimate govt recognized by the un now nearly non existant except in the capital.

They basically overthrew a dictator just to end up returning to the status quo but causing mass suffering death and genocide in the process, might as well not bother with libya at this point.

Well they wouldnt have overthrown Kadaffy without Western support, so the EU and the US sort of created this mess.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Well they wouldnt have overthrown Kadaffy without Western support, so the EU and the US sort of created this mess.

Italian intelligence in particular was involved in the 1987 coup that installed the man responsible for conditions leading to the Tunisian revolution of 2011, which sparked the Arab Spring that led to the Civil War in the first place. And then they had the gall to spearhead an intervention with the U.S. and NATO that resulted in further destabilization of the country. Which is now a failed state.
 

Abbazorkzog

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Protests across Italy over government attacks on press freedom

Hundreds of journalists protested in cities across Italy, calling for press freedom to be respected after populist Deputy Prime Minister Luigi Di Maio launched a barrage of slurs at the media, calling reporters "jackals" and threatening to implement new laws to control the press.

Di Maio, leader of the Five Star Movement (M5S), and Alessandro Di Battista, a prominent M5S politician, hurled insults at the Italian press over coverage of M5S Rome Mayor Virginia Raggi's corruption trial after she was acquitted on Saturday.

The insults sparked anger from Italian journalists’ unions FNSI and Usigrai, which organised the flash mobs to take place in 60 Italian towns and cities, as well as in London and Brussels.

Journalists, some carrying pictures of jackals, demonstrated in Rome, Genoa, Milan, Florence and Perugia under the slogan "Hands off the press".



Related:

Italian journalists protest after repeated insults by deputy prime minister
 

Abbazorkzog

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EU Commission calls for Italy to be sanctioned over budget

© Yves Herman, Reuters | EU Commission Vice-President Valdis Dombrovskis holds a news conference in Brussels on November 21, 2018.

The European Commission has rejected Italy's proposed 2019 budget over excessive spending and asked its government to come up with a new plan within three weeks, a first in European Union history.

The European Union's executive arm, which supervises national budget plans, has invited eurozone countries to examine its assessment in two weeks. If they agree with it, the Commission will launch an "excessive deficit procedure" that could result in fines for Italy.

The warning, while not rare in EU terms, has been marked by tensions between the Commission and Italy's populist government, which has vowed to resist any pressure from Brussels and continue with its spending plans.

"It is with regret that today we confirm our assessment that Italy's draft budget plan is in particularly serious non-compliance," EU Commission Vice-President Valdis Dombrovskis told reporters.



Related:

Political row threatens Louvre plans to mark 500 years since da Vinci’s death
Italy's far-Right ministry official escalates tensions with France by blocking loan of Leonardo works
Why Italians are livid about lending da Vinci artworks to France

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Are we on the precipice of seeing the first European rogue-state (besides the constituent Yugoslavs) come to prominence since WWII?
 
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