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"Freedom Of Speech" - Dixie Chicks

Agh!!! John Lenno brought the entire world together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "I read the news today oh boy...". I too read the news today and the world is a shattered mess, the same as it has been since it cooled down to support life. Those who patronize criminals such as Polanski only serve to feed the monster. You know what "monster" is don't you? It is Sharon Tates (Polanski's ex) mutilated body hanging upside down with her fetus ripped out by the Manson group. "Helter Skelter" another world saving John Lennon tune. Wake up!!

RELAX! Take a chill pill, gather your senses and learn to MEDITATE. That's got to be the most nonsensical posts I think I've ever read. Sharon Tate hanging upside-down?? First of all, she was stabbed and strangled, and left on the floor and the baby was NOT 'cut out' -- the murderer said that she had WANTED to cut the baby out but that she did not have the 'courage'. Blaming the Tate/Labianca murders on the Beatles is like blaming murder on the gun manufacturers.
Lennon's music (just like a LOT of music in the 60's) was about realizing change and making the world a better place. We were in the midst of one of our nation's most turbulent times and if it weren't for the revolution of the 60's, many things would never have changed for the better. John Lennon is/was a SAINT, and did more to heal the planet than a hundred US presidents put together.
 
Most artists want the money, come on! John Lennon didn't get political till after he was a millionaire.



People are more aware today than in any time in history. I'm just saying some people, and apparently their gravy train of fans were more conservatively bent, so wisdom would say, keep the trap shut. They are a cute group to me, and I think Natalie Maines is a very talented little girl.



Polanski was 43 and the girl was 13. Even if he had been in his early thirties that showed incredibly poor judgment on his part. Thirty is no babe in arms. Gotta grow up sometime. To me, I can't look at the guy without thinking he's a perve.

You're entirely missing my point. How many of Polanski's films have you boycotted because of his actions with the girl? Most likely, you haven't even paid attention to the director, but I can assure you he's made a lot of blockbusters (and still is). The point is about how ridiculous and childish it is to think that you're 'gonna get even' with something you don't like about an artist -- and just like in the D.C's case, such juvenile behavior only backfired on the fans who boycotted.

THAT is what the point is about. The reason you can't look at the guy without thinking 'perve' is because you've been PROGRAMMED to think that because of the media's hype about it. When I look at him, I think of the great film's he's made, from Rosemary's Baby to Chinatown to The Pianist to the Ninth Gate and what an impression his art has made -- I don't define people by the one mistake they've made. Of course you're one of those people who's in the awful habit of pre-JUDGEMENT most likely due to your religious beliefs. If you crack that book of yours, it'll tell you that the judging should be done by 'god'. Ever considered that?
 

You're entirely missing my point. How many of Polanski's films have you boycotted because of his actions with the girl? Most likely, you haven't even paid attention to the director, but I can assure you he's made a lot of blockbusters (and still is). The point is about how ridiculous and childish it is to think that you're 'gonna get even' with something you don't like about an artist -- and just like in the D.C's case, such juvenile behavior only backfired on the fans who boycotted.

THAT is what the point is about. The reason you can't look at the guy without thinking 'perve' is because you've been PROGRAMMED to think that because of the media's hype about it. When I look at him, I think of the great film's he's made, from Rosemary's Baby to Chinatown to The Pianist to the Ninth Gate and what an impression his art has made -- I don't define people by the one mistake they've made. Of course you're one of those people who's in the awful habit of pre-JUDGEMENT most likely due to your religious beliefs. If you crack that book of yours, it'll tell you that the judging should be done by 'god'. Ever considered that?

I think as an adult I think for myself at least part of time. I'm far from programmed.

I've seen snips of "Rosemary's Baby", but don't care for that dark, evil crap. I'm not sure I've seen "Chinatown" in it's entirety, but it was brutal here and there. It was good, seemed well done. The others I haven't seen. Not interested. I've lived quite nicely without them.

Geniuses can be nuts, also. I'm sure he had a big line of BS to capture Sharon Tate's attention.

I'm not a judgmental person, but I do have a brain, and when I know a person has taken advantage of a very young person, it's going to stick in my subconscious. Jerry Lee Lewis also married his 13 yr. old cousin. He couldn't have been looking for conversation there, and age does matter. I was always very conscious of age when I was dating, and it mattered. Age and maturity go together for the most part. Polansky was just a horny, probably buzzed up, old lech. That is going to stick in my mind, and make me think twice about him,usually things we get caught at, we've done before, or we've been known to do other perverted things. Perversion isn't usually a onetime "mistake". Most of the guys in prison weren't first time offenders.
 
I think as an adult I think for myself at least part of time. I'm far from programmed.

I've seen snips of "Rosemary's Baby", but don't care for that dark, evil crap. I'm not sure I've seen "Chinatown" in it's entirety, but it was brutal here and there. It was good, seemed well done. The others I haven't seen. Not interested. I've lived quite nicely without them.

Geniuses can be nuts, also. I'm sure he had a big line of BS to capture Sharon Tate's attention.

I'm not a judgmental person, but I do have a brain, and when I know a person has taken advantage of a very young person, it's going to stick in my subconscious. Jerry Lee Lewis also married his 13 yr. old cousin. He couldn't have been looking for conversation there, and age does matter. I was always very conscious of age when I was dating, and it mattered. Age and maturity go together for the most part. Polansky was just a horny, probably buzzed up, old lech. That is going to stick in my mind, and make me think twice about him,usually things we get caught at, we've done before, or we've been known to do other perverted things. Perversion isn't usually a onetime "mistake". Most of the guys in prison weren't first time offenders.

Whatever -- you've missed my point entirely. Since you DON'T KNOW the circumstances around Polanski and the girl, or Tate or any other thing about his life, you're forming your OPINION about him from what you've heard and seen on tv or what the media has PROGRAMMED you with. My point is about how CHILDISH it is for people to make assumptions about things they know nothing about.
 

Whatever -- you've missed my point entirely. Since you DON'T KNOW the circumstances around Polanski and the girl, or Tate or any other thing about his life, you're forming your OPINION about him from what you've heard and seen on tv or what the media has PROGRAMMED you with. My point is about how CHILDISH it is for people to make assumptions about things they know nothing about.

I get your point, and it's naive. If you show poor judgment it's shown, it's out there, you are going to have to prove to a lot of us that you are better than that bad behavior, this is the real world, and people can be very bad, so when you do something very bad, you will be judged for it. Having sex with a 13 yr old girl no matter the circumstances is unnecessary, and wrong. Find somebody in your own age group. I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for him. He could have kept it zipped up.

I know what Polanski looks like, and what Tate looked like. I'd say there was a big load of BS in his situation with her, and if she had lived they'd probably be divorced many, many years ago. This doesn't take a genius to figure out. Change the tables and say he was a ditch-digger. Still think they would have married if they had been introduced? I think not.

It's true I don't know the circumstances of his relationships, but do any of us know anybody's circumstances? Do we even know our own circumstances? The answer is a good bit of the time, no. We go by our experiences.
 
I get your point, and it's naive. If you show poor judgment it's shown, it's out there, you are going to have to prove to a lot of us that you are better than that bad behavior, this is the real world, and people can be very bad, so when you do something very bad, you will be judged for it. Having sex with a 13 yr old girl no matter the circumstances is unnecessary, and wrong. Find somebody in your own age group. I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for him. He could have kept it zipped up.

I know what Polanski looks like, and what Tate looked like. I'd say there was a big load of BS in his situation with her, and if she had lived they'd probably be divorced many, many years ago. This doesn't take a genius to figure out. Change the tables and say he was a ditch-digger. Still think they would have married if they had been introduced? I think not.

It's true I don't know the circumstances of his relationships, but do any of us know anybody's circumstances? Do we even know our own circumstances? The answer is a good bit of the time, no. We go by our experiences.

Thank you for at least giving me a glimpse into your shallow thought process, where people's entire relationships are judged based on what they LOOK LIKE.

It's like debating with a 12 YEAR OLD jesus freak. No wonder you guys brains are so plyable by your religious leaders -- you've formed your opinion of an entire couple's relationship based on the APPEARANCE of a couple and some gossip you hear on the news. No wonder you don't have the ability to look at something like gay marriage rationally. You don't have a rational thought in your entire body.
 
Thank you for at least giving me a glimpse into your shallow thought process, where people's entire relationships are judged based on what they LOOK LIKE.

As if you've never done this. Yeah, right!

It's like debating with a 12 YEAR OLD jesus freak. No wonder you guys brains are so plyable by your religious leaders -- you've formed your opinion of an entire couple's relationship based on the APPEARANCE of a couple and some gossip you hear on the news. No wonder you don't have the ability to look at something like gay marriage rationally. You don't have a rational thought in your entire body.

I said I was going by the odds. Odds are they'd be divorced. It's 50/50, or more like 90/10 in Hollywood.

Seems like you are sticking up for Polanski too much. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Wonder why?
 
As if you've never done this. Yeah, right!



I said I was going by the odds. Odds are they'd be divorced. It's 50/50, or more like 90/10 in Hollywood.

Seems like you are sticking up for Polanski too much. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Wonder why?

Can you do anything other than judge others? Ever consider cracking that 'good book' of yours? I'm not even a christian and I can clearly see your blatant disregard for your own spiritual principles.

"Sticking up for"?? I just happen to know more about the REAL story of Polanski than you -- I swear you've got to be one of those people who are addicted to those star rags -- like National Enquirer and those check-out line gossip sewer magazines. That would really make sense if you said you do read those...


:rofl
 
...girls were very surprised when she said it, and knew it was a no-no.


I learned that there are two things we hear:

What we want to hear

What we believe

I have a hard time believing that there isn't a hint of both in what happened that night.
 

Can you do anything other than judge others? Ever consider cracking that 'good book' of yours? I'm not even a christian and I can clearly see your blatant disregard for your own spiritual principles.

"Sticking up for"?? I just happen to know more about the REAL story of Polanski than you -- I swear you've got to be one of those people who are addicted to those star rags -- like National Enquirer and those check-out line gossip sewer magazines. That would really make sense if you said you do read those...


:rofl

Transcript of Roman Polanski trial:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html
 
I believe that the Natalie had every right to say what she said. However, I believe that her choosing to say it on foreign soil, while our troops were in harm's way was a bad choice of timing and location.

She had the right to say it and the American people had the right to boycott their concerts, refuse to play their records or buy their merchandise. The Dixie Chicks lost a bunch of money as did their record label. There are still stations that won't play their songs.

The fact that they are still singing, selling albums and doing tours shows that Americans tend to forgive, especially if you are young and attractive ... oh, and you can sing.
 
I believe that the Natalie had every right to say what she said. However, I believe that her choosing to say it on foreign soil, while our troops were in harm's way was a bad choice of timing and location.

She had the right to say it and the American people had the right to boycott their concerts, refuse to play their records or buy their merchandise. The Dixie Chicks lost a bunch of money as did their record label. There are still stations that won't play their songs.

The fact that they are still singing, selling albums and doing tours shows that Americans tend to forgive, especially if you are young and attractive ... oh, and you can sing.

Either that, or that the radio stations and/or fans that boycotted them either don't really stand by their convictions or realized how completely and utterly CHILDISH such a boycott truly is. The DC's are still happily pounding out song after song, and raking in the dough and while they may have lost some of their fans (at least the small/closed-minded ones), they've gained a new credibility by showing they're outspoken, rugged individualists and patriotic enough to not be afraid of the backlash they recieved by entering a political arena.

What they did was HEROIC, as well as being a true sign of patriotism!
:2usflag:
 
I know this is an old subject but i just picked it up when i was watching an old show from Oprah concerning Dixie Chicks and how one of the members had said some things about how she disagree with Bush's decision sending the army to Iraq. After that concert in Great Britain and Dixie Chicks returning to the U.S. they received a letter threatning one of the members that she will play on their next concert. Also many people came to demonstrate telling them that they had no right to talk freely about the war epsacially not on foreign soil! Now I have always herd that America is a country where everybody can speak free, also called "The Freedom Of Speech"... My concern is why so many people got so angry when it is okay for them and for all american citizens to say what they think...! And now when Dixie Chicks got big and made an international hit I was wondering if people are still angry with them, or íf nobody is??

Glenn :confused:
They said it for publicity.
 
I agree rathi, it is like concerning yourself with what Tom Hanks political opinion is. What makes that guy more qualified than me on the subject. In fact, I would listen to most DP posters over entertainers, since most DP posters research stuff independently. I have a double Major in History and PoliSci, what was Hanks in? Or Oprah? Or Sean Penn? :lol:

Most people have a herd mentality. They like to be part of groups. They will go along with what most other people do or say. They don't like to stand out from the crowd. They are content to stand around in, generally, the same place, doing, generally, the same things they've always done. Generally speaking.

When there is no perceived actual leader to follow, people's herding mentality (as well as other psychological mechanisms) will allow/motivate them to project leadership status on anyone who is likable.

The person(s) who have charisma, are good looking, are large in stature, who have an impressive resume, who dress well, who are popular and etc. may have ZERO knowledge on the subject at hand or ZERO leadership skills, ability or talent but if the person is likable for any number of reasons, by enough people, they can be selected as a leader.

And when I say 'selected' it isn't a formal selection by a group or board or committee or an actual referendum, necessarily. It is as simple and subtle as a brief moment when you sum up a person. And that is done in the span of less than two minutes. If you decide there is something likable about a person in the first two minutes you are exposed to them, they can become your leader. You may not assign them that status immediately, but the possibility is decided in the first two minutes. In our minds everyone we know has a little box beside their name for leadership potential. Until the person in question says or does anything to enhance their leadership standing or to detract from their leadership standing, if you like them the box remains unchecked. It's a possibility that you might follow that person.

The Dixie Chicks are attractive women, no doubt. They are also very talented. Anyone can see and hear that. Their beauty is immediately apparent. Their talent is unquestioned within the first 2 minutes of hearing any of their songs.

And until they spoke out against President Bush they were simply attractive and talented girls from Texas. But when they did, that is when millions of mental leadership boxes were being checked positive and millions of others were being checked negative.

The one who actually spoke up and out about President Bush and the impending Iraq invasion was lead singer, Natalie Maines.

During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, several weeks after their Grammy success, the Dixie Chicks performed in concert in London on March 10, 2003, at the Shepherd's Bush Empire theatre. During this concert, the band gave a monologue to introduce their song Travelin' Soldier, during which Natalie Maines, a Texas native, was quoted by The Guardian as saying,
"Just so you know, [...] we're ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas."[7]
Though this is the official circulation of the comment, the full text of the statement Natalie Maines made was as follows:
“ Just so you know, we’re on the good side with y’all. We do not want this war, this violence, and we’re ashamed that the President of the United States is from Texas. ”

—Natalie Maines, [8]

Directly after Natalie's statements on stage, co-band member Emily Robison reportedly remarked that the band supported the American troops 100 percent.[9]

The comment about President Bush, who had moved to Texas from Connecticut at age two, was reported in The Guardian's review of the Chicks concert.[7] Shortly thereafter, the U.S. media picked up the story and controversy erupted.[10]

Maines' remark sparked intense criticism; many Americans believed that she should not criticize her country's head of state on foreign soil, or criticize the Commander-in-Chief while the country was on the verge of war. Maines insists, however, "I said it there 'cause that's where I was."[11]

The comment angered many country music fans and was financially damaging. Following the uproar and the start of a boycott of the Dixie Chicks' music, Maines attempted to clarify matters on March 12 by saying, "I feel the President is ignoring the opinions of many in the U.S. and alienating the rest of the world." [12]

The statement failed to quiet her critics, and Maines issued an apology on March 14: "As a concerned American citizen, I apologize to President Bush because my remark was disrespectful. I feel that whoever holds that office should be treated with the utmost respect. We are currently in Europe and witnessing a huge anti-American sentiment as a result of the perceived rush to war. While war may remain a viable option, as a mother, I just want to see every possible alternative exhausted before children and American soldiers' lives are lost. I love my country. I am a proud American."[13][14]

While some people were disappointed that Maines apologized at all, others dropped their support of the Dixie Chicks and their sponsor Lipton. In one famous anti-Dixie Chicks display, former fans were encouraged to bring their CDs to a demonstration at which they would be crushed by a bulldozer. The degree of hatred directed toward the Chicks - including death threats[15] - provoked concern among the band about their safety and that of their families. Bruce Springsteen and Madonna even felt compelled to come out in support of the right of the band to express their opinions freely.[16] (Although Madonna herself was pressured to postpone and then alter the April 1 release of her "American Life" video in which she threw a hand grenade toward a Bush look-alike, after witnessing the backlash against the Chicks.)[17]

The other two members of the group supported Maines' statement and by doing so they took a stand apart from the 'herd' of most Americans at the time. This made people who had the same point of view check the box in their mind, "leader." That's how people like Cindy Sheehan could become such a popular figure in the anti-war movement. People saw her as a regular person, a mom who lost her son in the war. They liked her and sympathized with her. That's all she needed. She knew nothing of the facts of the decision nor did she have the intellectual depth to seek these answers. She was a person in pain over her son's death and who was confused about the whats and whys of the war in Iraq and she decided to seek answers that the President could not give because by giving her those answers it would hurt our foreign relations.

So she became an activist and because in people's minds she was likable and hadn't in any other way disqualified herself in their estimation, Cindy Sheehan was seen as a leader. With no apparent college degree, no known management or leadership skills, no experience in government people were willing to follow her until, over time, she began to disqualify herself as a potential leader in many peoples minds.

And so it was with the Dixie Chicks. They have no leadership skills, political expertise or a background in foreign affairs. All they apparently have is a willingness to be outspoken.

To many Americans who share their point of view about the war they are leaders in the anti-war chorus.

To many other Americans they are seen as disloyal.

Here's what I think.
 
The Dixie Chicks are nice, attractive, talented girls who happen to be popular musicians. They know nothing about foreign affairs but like many in America, they believe there is a RIGHT to speak but no necessity to BE right when speaking.

If they had to prepare their positions the way they prepare a musical recording they might sing a different tune about the invasion of Iraq.

I don't hate them. I don't admire them especially. I just think they are nice, attractive, talented girls who don't know what they are talking about. And the President apparently has a magnanimous feeling toward them just as he seems to have about most of the anti-war crowd.

He knows we have a herd mentality and because he can't spell out in big bold colors and say the real explanations for the war slowly and in monosyllabic words because of national security reasons he views the anti war crowd as a father does especially mischievous children. He knows we can't understand without the facts. He knows the facts support his decisions and will become known years from now when national security will not be jeopardized by that explanation.

That's why he always looks so upbeat and optimistic and confident. HE knows the reasons were sound. WE DON'T.

But we can figure it out if we try. But that is where the whole FREE SPEECH and POLITICAL DISSENT thing breaks down in America today.

The anti-war crowd is more than willing to exercise their right of free speech but because there is no constitutional requirement of MANDATORY LISTENING we are at an impasse in America today.

Unfortunately, with all the ways and means of communication that have opened up with the improvements in technology there are more and more of us who not only feel they CAN add their voice to the already crowded information/opinion highway, there are millions who feel they MUST do so.

When the average American Googles for information about the war, President Bush or the Iraq invasion they will most likely find that anti-war information predominates. And many of the people responsible for the information you'd find in, at or on those sites are in many respects those like the Dixie Chicks and Natalie Maines. Nice, friendly people with an interest in making their opinions known and/or doing something about the pain they feel over our foreign policy.

But what we can't readily discern are the often hidden motives behind the information. How it's written. How it's edited. What's left in. What's left out. What information is placed near other bits of information. What is a proven fact. What is opinion. What is a lie. What is an unintentional factual error. Who funds the site? What are the writer's past subjects? His or her CV? What has criticism of their work been previously? Who do they cite? How closely do they hew to a recognized ideology or political party or line of thought?

And let's not be coy, there are people and sites with hidden agendas and secret tactics.

Did you know that when you visit a site that your IP address is read by their equipment and with your IP address they can find out things about you depending on how guarded or unguarded you are about your personal information and how good their skill, technology and contacts are.

There are people who HATE Bush because they think he did not win the 2000 election. People who dislike that he is a Republican. The former president's son. Did not serve in Vietnam. Was a party boy. Became a born again Christian. All of that animosity existed BEFORE the 9/11 attacks. And since then the numbers of his haters has increased and the nature of the anti-Bush crowd has changed. There are computers and users around the world dedicated to waging Jihad online. Some are involved in the active jihad, recruiting, sending and receiving messages and etc. But others are involved in swaying the minds of non-Muslims by use of propaganda, misinformation, deceit, phishing for personal information about computer users that can be used later and so forth.

So when a person goes online looking for information about the war and they find only negative information those sites COULD be sponsored by loyal but misinformed Americans or they could be the sites of loyal Americans with a chip on their shoulder about Bush. Or they could be sites sponsored by Jihadists who have intentionally flooded the internet with anti-war, anti-Bush sites (starting from before 9/11) so that the search engine algorithms would most likely put THEIR sites at the top of the search results page depending on the words used in search field.

That means the deck is stacked against anyone finding anything substantially positive about the war or the President unless you were specifically looking for that good news or positive information. And when you add to that the fact that the president simply couldn't reveal everything he knows because it would weaken America, then the average person can't really be blamed for having a mistakenly negative view of things.

The herd mindset notices that there is very little positive being said about the war or GWB in the MSM, on the great majority of websites, at online forums, amongst others like them or even those in different parts of the country with different socio-economic situations, there are even people in other parts of the world who share the same point of view about Iraq and Bush. So how can anyone feel that there is any possible good to be said about this "fiasco"?

TO BE CONTINUED.
 
As previously mentioned, there is no mandated listening provision in our laws and so people will do what they believe is sufficiently diligent research and they will find, overwhelmingly, negative information about the war and about the President.

And so when someone comes along with a different point of view it takes real courage and real intellectual strength to look at that information and intelligently judge it on it's merits.

But more likely than not, after a brief time spent surveying the topic the average person is going to arrive at the conclusion that the war is nothing but bad and has been nothing but bad from Day One and that the President and Vice President and Karl Rove are evil! And with so much evidence to support that belief coming from so many others who feel the same way, others who also suffer from a lack of information from those who really do know the truth but can't talk about it in the administration and from others who may or may not have hidden agendas (some of them being lethal agendas), and others with little or no political expertise or education or real interest in the fields of:

foreign affairs
or Jihad
or Islam
or war
or diplomacy
or American history
or Middle Eastern history
or the workings of government
or the military
or human relations
or sociology
or anything germane to the matter of our intervention in Iraq --

It's understandable that the average person would have their mind already made up with regard to the war and the president. But having said all of that I'm here to tell you they are mistaken.

And after a few years of researching and writing about it I'm convinced that the best way to compel someone who absolutely hates Bush because of the invasion and who hates the campaign being fought in Iraq to re-think the whole matter is to ask them to consider one fact.

Israel would not allow the proverbial Sword of Damocles to hang over their nation without taking action. And that action would likely have triggered a regional war much larger and more devastating that any we've seen since WWII.

And George W. Bush prevented that. But he can't say so to the world.

So, let's allow that to be the puzzle piece that allows all of us to stop freely speaking so much and start freely listening a little more, start searching a little more and start looking at President Bush in a different light.

He really did step up BIG when this nation needed a real leader.

He knows this. Those around him understand this.

It will be up to you to find out why. And the answers are out there, too.

The Dixie Chicks are nice girls. It's just too bad their average fan knows no more about the decision to invade Iraq and stay there until the job is done than the Chicks know themselves.

Thanks for your time.
 
He knows we have a herd mentality and because he can't spell out in big bold colors and say the real explanations for the war slowly and in monosyllabic words because of national security reasons he views the anti war crowd as a father does especially mischievous children. He knows we can't understand without the facts. He knows the facts support his decisions and will become known years from now when national security will not be jeopardized by that explanation.

Excuse me, but, we are not children. If there were legitimate reasons for attacking Iraq, Bush could have made his case without jeopardizing national security and without lying. It is absurd to think he is privy to information unknown to the rest of the world or middle east experts. It is also absurd to paint this particular man as an all-knowing "father" who finds it necessary to patronize "mischievous, childlike" Americans.

So when a person goes online looking for information about the war and they find only negative information those sites COULD be sponsored by loyal but misinformed Americans or they could be the sites of loyal Americans with a chip on their shoulder about Bush. Or they could be sites sponsored by Jihadists who have intentionally flooded the internet with anti-war, anti-Bush sites (starting from before 9/11) so that the search engine algorithms would most likely put THEIR sites at the top of the search results page depending on the words used in search field.

What about the positive sites? They COULD be pro-Bush propaganda sites like the Weekly Standard, whose editor, Bill Kristol, is chairman of PNAC which has promoted an Iraq war since the mid-nineties.

TO BE CONTINUED.

Geezus :doh
 
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Excuse me, but, we are not children. If there were legitimate reasons for attacking Iraq, Bush could have made his case without jeopardizing national security and without lying. It is absurd to think he is privy to information unknown to the rest of the world or middle east experts. It is also absurd to paint this particular man as an all-knowing "father" who finds it necessary to patronize "mischievous, childlike" Americans.

What about the positive sites? They COULD be pro-Bush propaganda sites like the Weekly Standard, whose editor, Bill Kristol, is chairman of PNAC which has promoted an Iraq war since the mid-nineties.

Geezus :doh

I was waiting for someone like you to come along.

Israelis are cautious. They remember the terror of that unbearable May when, with Israel possessing no occupied territories whatsoever, the entire Arab world was furiously preparing Israel’s imminent extinction. And the world did nothing.

Charles Krauthammer on Six Day War on National Review Online

"What's the worst nightmare at the start?" a retired officer who fought in the Gulf War asked me rhetorically. "Saddam Hussein hits Israel, and Sharon hits some Arab city, maybe in Saudi Arabia. Then you have the all-out religious war that the Islamic fundamentalists and maybe some Likudniks are itching for."

The Fifty-first State?


Your name isn't "Jerry" is it?
 
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"Saddam Hussein hits Israel, and Sharon hits some Arab city, maybe in Saudi Arabia. Then you have the all-out religious war that the Islamic fundamentalists and maybe some Likudniks are itching for."

So, what do we have now (especially if we attack Iran, as the neocons are "itching" for)?
 
Do entertainers have any business commenting on matters of state? I want to remind everyone of this actor named Ronald… we referred to him later as Mr. President. And there was this signer named Sonny… we later referred to him as Representative. Now there is this actor named Arnold… we call him Governor.

You never know what the future could bring…
 
I'll admit I don't buy the Dixie Chicks after their comment, both because I felt it was distasteful (I happened to be on one of those aircraft carriers in the gulf at the time waiting for us to send planes into Iraq) and that she said it more to rile the crowd then to "just express her views"(this isn't to say that she doesn't actually feel that way). I just don't like people playing up negative political issues just to sell more stuff. I support her right to say it, I just don't see why other people can't accept that I have a different opinion than her, and therefore choose now not to provide the Dixie Chicks with more money. I still listen to old Chicks' songs. Some of their songs are pretty good. I just don't feel like giving this group anymore of my money. And personally I think anyone else who feels like they want to support the Chicks that's fine. I don't think they should get a Grammy in country music categories if they don't even truly consider themselves country music anymore. That seems a little dumb to me but hey c'est la vie. I didn't watch the Grammys anyway. And it was horrible for anyone to threaten her life over that comment, but not everyone who stopped buying their stuff feels this way, and there are plenty of stupid people out there on all sides of all kinds of issues.
 
I'll admit I don't buy the Dixie Chicks after their comment, both because I felt it was distasteful (I happened to be on one of those aircraft carriers in the gulf at the time waiting for us to send planes into Iraq) and that she said it more to rile the crowd then to "just express her views"(this isn't to say that she doesn't actually feel that way). I just don't like people playing up negative political issues just to sell more stuff. I support her right to say it, I just don't see why other people can't accept that I have a different opinion than her, and therefore choose now not to provide the Dixie Chicks with more money. I still listen to old Chicks' songs. Some of their songs are pretty good. I just don't feel like giving this group anymore of my money. And personally I think anyone else who feels like they want to support the Chicks that's fine. I don't think they should get a Grammy in country music categories if they don't even truly consider themselves country music anymore. That seems a little dumb to me but hey c'est la vie. I didn't watch the Grammys anyway. And it was horrible for anyone to threaten her life over that comment, but not everyone who stopped buying their stuff feels this way, and there are plenty of stupid people out there on all sides of all kinds of issues.

This is definately one of the well thought out opinion, compared to the namecalling etc of other posters.
 
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