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Freedom includes Responsibility

Mycroft said:
"isn't there a very real possibility that they could then come down with COVID and spread it to someone who might then die"

They could only spread it to someone who also made the choice to not get vaccinated. That's a risk that EVERYONE chooses to accept when they decide not to get vaccinated.​

"FREEDOM REQUIRES RESPONSIBILITY"

What you don't understand is that the responsibility that's connected to freedom is "personal responsibility". Not "responsibility toward others". Laws matter, but there is no law that says anyone must get a vaccination because of their responsibility toward others.​

"Getting vaccinated is not all about “you”, but about herd immunity"

Wrong. Herd immunity is helped by vaccinations, but vaccinations are not required to attain herd immunity. Fundamentally, getting vaccinated IS about "you".​
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Thank you for proving my point that right-wingers only care about an anarchical SELFISH sort of "freedom" rather than freedom with responsibility to society in general. It's what I expect every right winger response will be.
 
AmNat said:
Any decision anyone makes could theoretically effect others. It's generally not a sign of good mental health to go around imagining hypothetical scenarios where other people's private decisions could affect you. Try to focus more on your own actions.
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Would it be possible that If you don't get the vaccine, then you could get COVID and spread it to someone with a poor immune system and that they might die, especially if you also exercise the "freedom" of not wearing a mask and therefore making it easier to spread?
 
Chillfolks said:
You can encourage people to get a vaccine, but you can't force anyone to. It's an individual choice each person has to make for themselves
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I’m assuming you mean morally and not legally.. Governments can fine people for not getting vaccinations...
 
watsup said:
Would it be possible that If you don't get the vaccine, then you could get COVID and spread it to someone with a poor immune system and that they might die, especially if you also exercise the "freedom" of not wearing a mask and therefore making it easier to spread?
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If a person chooses not to get the vaccine then they have no right to complain should they catch Covid from another unvaccinated person.
 
Look, we're at a crossroads here. The more people that get the vaccine, the better chance that COVID can be defeated in the LONG TERM. Every person uses the excuse of "freedom" to avoid the shot has the possibility of getting COVID, spreading it to others, and thereby allowing it to continue to thrive for the long run. The RESPONSIBLE decision, for the sake of the freedom of all of us, is to get the vaccine. Period.
 
AmNat said:
If a person chooses not to get the vaccine then they have no right to complain should they catch Covid from another unvaccinated person.
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So you don't care if you potentially pass COVID to another person who then passes away? What part of "freedom includes responsibility" do you not understand. True freedom includes a societal aspect, not only a selfish personal one.
 
watsup said:
So you don't care if you potentially pass COVID to another person who then passes away? What part of "freedom includes responsibility" do you not understand. True freedom includes a societal aspect, not only a selfish personal one.
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I choose not to live in fear of bad things that could hypothetically happen. I take the same reasonable precautions against disease transmission that most sane and normal people did prior to the hysteria of 2020.
 
watsup said:
Thank you for proving my point that right-wingers only care about an anarchical SELFISH sort of "freedom" rather than freedom with responsibility to society in general. It's what I expect every right winger response will be.
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When people start demanding "responsibility to society" in order to be rewarded with freedom...that's when people start removing freedom.

But then, that's what I expect from every left winger.
 
watsup said:
Not getting the vaccine might mean that the person would get the virus and spread it to an older person or someone with immune problems and that they might then die. Is it also an individual choice to stop at a red light or to run it?
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Unless you have a self driving car you must choose to apply the brakes
 
BlueTex said:
I’m assuming you mean morally and not legally.. Governments can fine people for not getting vaccinations...
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Do you got a link for that? All the information I've seen says the US government does not have that power.
 
AmNat said:
Any decision anyone makes could theoretically effect others. It's generally not a sign of good mental health to go around imagining hypothetical scenarios where other people's private decisions could affect you. Try to focus more on your own actions.
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Try to focus on the specific issue being discussed.
 
grip said:
I heard that Phizer came out today saying a booster will probably be required and that we'll need an annual vaccination.
Good luck enforcing that on a yearly basis. 😜 (y)
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Enforcing is one thing, the effort and logistics to get 300,000,000 million people vaccinated yearly is something else altogether. The only way to get this behind us is to actively fight the virus together instead of fighting each other.
 
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Chillfolks said:
So it's up to the states to determine if they will make a vaccine mandatory. I would suspect this case would be revisited if any state choose to make a Covid vaccine mandatory
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Do a search on how often this case is cited... it’s not going to be revisited..
 
watsup said:
Below is my response to a person in another thread who was basically bragging that they were not going to get the COVID shot because they were "young and healthy".
And isn't it so true about the right-wingers who yell FREEDOM! these days that they forget the RESPONSIBILITY part of the equation. Hopefully, they would not drive through a red light in the name of "freedom" because of the possibility that they might kill someone in a car wreck. But isn't it the same with the COVID vaccination. If a person insists on NOT getting it, isn't there a very real possibility that they could then come down with COVID and spread it to someone who might then die, most likely some of their elderly relatives or friends or relatives with weakened immune systems? Where is the RESPONSIBILITY of getting a COVID shot involved?


From another thread: "What you and so many other “freedom” advocates do not seem to understand is that FREEDOM REQUIRES RESPONSIBILITY. “Freedom” without responsibility towards others in a society is called “anarchy” and is evidently what you see as “personal freedom”. Getting vaccinated is not all about “you”, but about herd immunity so that your elderly relatives and others that you might know who have weakened immune systems due to disease have less chance of getting COVID. The more people who get vaccinated, the better chance there is to lessen the possibility of COVID surviving for the long term. What you call “freedom” is actually the ultimate in societal irresponsibility and lack of care about your fellow citizens. It’s not “freedom”, it’s SELFISHNESS."

It's true, isn't it? When right-wingers speak of "freedom", they are actually talking about an anarchic-based "freedom" whereby they should be able to do what they want without responsibility to the citizenry of the nation at large: carry an assault-style into a Statehouse or disrupt the official proceedings of Congress as ordained by the Constitution. That's not freedom, that's children playing tin soldiers.
The true meaning of freedom in a democracy is one that include RESPONSIBILITY to others, not just selfishness to do whatever. We remain in trouble as a nation as long as the right-wingers are dedicated to a SELFISH "freedom".

Here is an excellent article that expands on the concept: https://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/burdens-of-freedom
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Nope, when “right-wingers” speak of freedom, MOST are very much in agreement with your interpretation. In fact I’d bet a lot of those “young and dumb” people you talk about are card-carrying lefties.
 
Most of us have to put up with annoyances just about every day Pokey-ass drivers in the left lane, the person standing at an ATM with their card but look like they're trying to figure out which planet am I on, the noisy person...constantly. (Son of a ..can't I eat a nice meal without some loud-mouth asshole talk like..)
My point being: What's the big deal? Wearing a mask doesn't change you, although if you think that outward appearances "Tell the whole story of a person"..then you might want to stop that.
And the shot. Christ, it takes like 1-2 hours out of your life. Big deal. You know what? Just do those things because if you don't, people talk about you in very derogative terms. Youi don't care about that? Yeah, you do
 
AmNat said:
I choose not to live in fear of bad things that could hypothetically happen. I take the same reasonable precautions against disease transmission that most sane and normal people did prior to the hysteria of 2020.
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Again with the selfishness. Answer the question, What if you get the COVID and you are okay but you give it to someone who then passes away from it. No problem for you?
 
Mycroft said:
When people start demanding "responsibility to society" in order to be rewarded with freedom...that's when people start removing freedom.

But then, that's what I expect from every left winger.
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And I expect the freedom of SELFISHNESS from you right wingers. Would you drive thought a red light in the name of “freedom”?
 
watsup said:
Again with the selfishness. Answer the question, What if you get the COVID and you are okay but you give it to someone who then passes away from it. No problem for you?
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What if you hit and kill someone the next time you drive your car?
 
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