Freed US soldier celebrated Xmas, played Badminton with Captors.....

[MMC]

No, I am trying to point out that portraying negotiating with terrorists behind congress's back is nothing new. At least this time it was not illegal.

Well according to many......it was illegal. Even those with the MS Media. He went around Congress. Of course someone has to bring it forth to have it determined so.

Regardless if BO says they mitigated it enough. He didn't!

 

[Redress]

Well according to many......it was illegal. Even those with the MS Media. He went around Congress. Of course someone has to bring it forth to have it determined so.

Regardless if BO says they mitigated it enough. He didn't!

I missed that part and have not been following closely. If it is illegal, the parallel is even closer.

 

[nota bene]

Can't quite be certain yet but there's something unsavory about this whole Bergdahl affair.

Maybe so. Let's wait for more facts.

 

[MMC]

I am studiously trying to avoid comment on this. Ask me a week ago before it happened if we should negotiate with terrorists I and I would have said no. Ask me today and I would say no. Ask me about this specific incident and I would say "its a tough job being the Commander in Chief and I hope his decision doesnt come back to bite our country in the ass". At the end of the day, this is just not an issue I want to play partisan politics with.

Well.....I think I already have shown that is exactly what BO is doing. Using it politically.....but now it seems the Taliban will be able to get around their agreement.

 

[MMC]

I missed that part and have not been following closely. If it is illegal, the parallel is even closer.

Well like I stated early.....he didn't have any trouble allowing Karzai to release Taliban. Even though many other countries complained.

How would the parallel be even closer.....again?

 

[American]

Hardline Islamists celebrating Easter and Christmas while playing Badminton. THERE'S a picture!

Yeah, great bunch of guys just having a bit of fun. Maybe Obama should hold a beer summit.

/sarcasm

 

[notquiteright]

Now that we've started negotiating with terrorists, no American is safe. 5 bad asses for one idiot. Sounds like another Obama bad decision.

The recent President who both said no negotiating with terrorists AND negotiated with terrorists was Ronald Reagan. In 1985 in order to secure 7 hostages taken by a terrorist group in Lebanon, who had ties to Iran the USofA sent weapons to Israel to be reshipped to Iran (deep into a costly war with better equipped Iraq). The money was then used to fund the Contra effort which by law had been blocked by Congress.

SoD Weinberger's notes from a meeting on the subject says, he (Reagan) could answer to the charges of illegality but couldn't answer to the charge that 'big strong Reagan passed up on the chance to free the hostages'. Large volumes of material were destroyed, documents were refused to be declassified, and Reagan claimed no knowledge. however he did admit his administration traded arms for hostages during a national TV address.

So since the mid 80's 'no American is safe'... :doh

Israel, locked in a deadly struggle with the Arabs, has routinely traded multiples of Palestinian prisoners for a single Israeli. 7,000 for 16 Israelis over the years according to Reuters. one deal was in 1985 when over 1,000 prisoners were exchanged for 3 Israelis. in 2011 over 1,000 for just one Israeli.

I'd say we got off cheap... eace

 

[MMC]

Yeah, great bunch of guys just having a bit of fun. Maybe Obama should hold a beer summit.

/sarcasm

He did better.....he sent Susan Rice out to get some Candy.




Although.....I could have helped with what Team BO stated back in Feb. Of course Candy.....as a former Reporter should have known this.

 

[American]

He did better.....he sent Susan Rice out to get some Candy.

Such numbskulls, do they realize that the Middle East was dominated by the UK, and that they prefer Grey Poupon?

 

[MMC]

Such numbskulls, do they realize that the Middle East was dominated by the UK, and that they prefer Grey Poupon?

Yeah, and that the Taliban had no real intention to keep the deal. So they now just had the Afghan government say so. Must be nice to be able to tell the Afghan government when to jump, bip and bop. We should have done so from the start.


The five Taliban are understood to be limited to living in Qatar for their first year of freedom, a condition that the Afghan government on Sunday said was against "international law" and called for their immediate release.....snip~

 

[MMC]

I heard about this a few years ago, but from what source I don't remember. It seems to me the debate was rather the military would classify him as a deserter or a POW.

Heya Pero. :2wave: Here is Rice on This Week. Here she admits Bergdahl walked off post. They knew.....since he walked off without wearing a Uniform and in shorts.



Most analysts are saying that our Troops in Afghanistan now come with a price-tag. This could be some major trouble for BO. Especially if any released plot and plan while sittin back and partying.

Here they come with that line about the 21st Century. Georgie she have cut her off and said. What about Benghazi.....Gotcha.

 

[Perotista]

Heya Pero. :2wave: Here is Rice on This Week. Here she admits Bergdahl walked off post. They knew.....since he walked off without wearing a Uniform and in shorts.



Most analysts are saying that our Troops in Afghanistan now come with a price-tag. This could be some major trouble for BO. Especially if any released plot and plan while sittin back and partying.

Here they come with that line about the 21st Century. Georgie she have cut her off and said. What about Benghazi.....Gotcha.

She didn't address the deserter portion of it. Leon Panetta when he was secretary of Defense refused this same deal two years ago. So if this deal is good now, why wasn't good two years ago. Why make this man go through two more years of suffering as a POW.

Now she mentioned the battlefield, this guy was not captured on the battlefield, he deserted his post. What I do not understand is we have a U.S. Marine sitting in jail in Mexico who served his nation proudly and never deserted, yet we will make this deal for a deserter. Somehow our priorities are all screwed up.

I have no problem in trying to get this guy back from the Taliban. But in line way before this guy should be our Marine in Mexico. If that meant dropping everything on this guy, you do it.

I don't know about future repercussions, those are speculation at this point. Call it theory. What we do know for a fact is 30% of those we have turned loose from Gitmo, returned to the battlefield. Talking and negotiating with the taliban, I have no problem with that. If we can talk with Stalin, Khrushchev and on and on, with Mao and Chow, with Ho and his North Vietnamese, we can talk with the Taliban, no problem there. But when we negotiate, we have to do that smartly. We can't give away the farm for a few good headlines for a day or two.

 

[MMC]

She didn't address the deserter portion of it. Leon Panetta when he was secretary of Defense refused this same deal two years ago. So if this deal is good now, why wasn't good two years ago. Why make this man go through two more years of suffering as a POW.

Now she mentioned the battlefield, this guy was not captured on the battlefield, he deserted his post. What I do not understand is we have a U.S. Marine sitting in jail in Mexico who served his nation proudly and never deserted, yet we will make this deal for a deserter. Somehow our priorities are all screwed up.

I have no problem in trying to get this guy back from the Taliban. But in line way before this guy should be our Marine in Mexico. If that meant dropping everything on this guy, you do it.

I don't know about future repercussions, those are speculation at this point. Call it theory. What we do know for a fact is 30% of those we have turned loose from Gitmo, returned to the battlefield. Talking and negotiating with the taliban, I have no problem with that. If we can talk with Stalin, Khrushchev and on and on, with Mao and Chow, with Ho and his North Vietnamese, we can talk with the Taliban, no problem there. But when we negotiate, we have to do that smartly. We can't give away the farm for a few good headlines for a day or two.

Is the Marine in Mexico still active duty? Well we want to talk to the Taliban. They refuse to talk to us and use Qatar to Mediate. Now they have a Office in Qatar. Which they have been given legitimacy. Even thought they are not the ruling government of Afghanistan.

She don't address desertion.....she admits they knew he walked off.

 

[Ockham]

So a few thoughts:
1st, I'd fully expect a full investigation and subsequent court martian for AWOL / Desertion should that be the case here. Second, I fully expect his defense to be one of mental incompetence at the time of desertion and a question of his capability in standing trial in the military court.

It's now going to be open season on American's in the ME, since Obama has by fiat, decided this on his own. Perhaps this is how he gets around Congress closing Gitmo - just continue to do a 5 for 1 trade on all the American's who will be kidnapped and tortured over the next few years and he'll clean out Gitmo. Sounds as plausible as anything else at this point.

 

[MMC]

So a few thoughts:
1st, I'd fully expect a full investigation and subsequent court martian for AWOL / Desertion should that be the case here. Second, I fully expect his defense to be one of mental incompetence at the time of desertion and a question of his capability in standing trial in the military court.

It's now going to be open season on American's in the ME, since Obama has by fiat, decided this on his own. Perhaps this is how he gets around Congress closing Gitmo - just continue to do a 5 for 1 trade on all the American's who will be kidnapped and tortured over the next few years and he'll clean out Gitmo. Sounds as plausible as anything else at this point.

Heya Ockham. :2wave: Hagel says that will be dealt with later. Worse.....will be what our people will have to put up with for the next 10 years. Just a small residual force there. Which will need to be SF troops and or Marines.....who will still carry out ops against AQ. They will also have to keep the ROE's that will not favor them.



Afghanistan Releases 65 Prisoners from Parwan Facility ......


Afghanistan has released 65 accused militants from a former U.S. detention facility near Bagram Air Base, despite warnings from the United States.

Afghan officials said Thursday that the prisoners were freed from the Parwan Detention Facility earlier in the day. Among those scheduled to be released was Mohammad Wali, whom the United States says is a Taliban explosives expert who targeted U.S. and Afghan forces.

The United States has protested the release of those prisoners since President Hamid Karzai announced several weeks ago that the prisoners' cases had been reviewed by the government and they had been cleared for release.

In comments to reporters during a visit to Ankara (,Turkey) Thursday, Mr. Karzai defended the release saying the action "is of no concern to the U.S."

Mr. Karzai says he hopes the U.S. will "stop harassing" Afghanistan's procedures and judicial authority and begin to respect the country's sovereignty. .....snip~

Afghanistan Releases 65 Prisoners from Parwan Facility
February 13, 2014 <<<<< !

 

[bubbabgone]

Maybe so. Let's wait for more facts.

Yup.
It's just peculiar in several ways.

• The timing.
• It's been said that Leon Panetta wouldn't take this deal when he was SecDef.
• It's okay to bargain with the "Tolleybahn" to release stone cold murdering terrorists to get back a guy who appears to have walked into their arms, but not bargain with Mexico to get back a Marine who took a wrong turn.
• As for the notion that the Administration doesn't leave a man on the battlefield, well ... Benghazi.

 

[MMC]

Yup.
It's just peculiar in several ways.

• The timing.
• It's been said that Leon Panetta wouldn't take this deal when he was SecDef.
• It's okay to bargain with the "Tolleybahn" to release stone cold murdering terrorists to get back a guy who appears to have walked into their arms, but not bargain with Mexico to get back a Marine who took a wrong turn.
• As for the notion that the Administration doesn't leave a man on the battlefield, well ... Benghazi.

Not only Panetta.....but both Gates and Petraeus too.

Leaving nothing but BO's lackeys.....and latchkeys.

 

[Perotista]

Is the Marine in Mexico still active duty? Well we want to talk to the Taliban. They refuse to talk to us and use Qatar to Mediate. Now they have a Office in Qatar. Which they have been given legitimacy. Even thought they are not the ruling government of Afghanistan.

She don't address desertion.....she admits they knew he walked off.

I think Tahmooressi is a reservist now with hip pocket orders and had been ordered to report to Hialeah, Fla for his annual physical. To bring peace to Afghanistan, the Taliban and the current government there has to come to terms, a settlement of some kind or another. Talking with them doesn't bother me. As for your court marshal, once this guy is back in the states, I would give him a dishonorable discharge and be done with him.

 

[MMC]

I think Tahmooressi is a reservist now with hip pocket orders and had been ordered to report to Hialeah, Fla for his annual physical. To bring peace to Afghanistan, the Taliban and the current government there has to come to terms, a settlement of some kind or another. Talking with them doesn't bother me. As for your court marshal, once this guy is back in the states, I would give him a dishonorable discharge and be done with him.

What is the punishment for Desertion in war zone according to USMCJ? As Susan says.....uhm, in the 21st Century.

 

[Perotista]

What is the punishment for Desertion in war zone according to USMCJ? As Susan says.....uhm, in the 21st Century.

Could be a firing squad, but we both know that ain't gonna happen. Even a dishonorable discharge may be too much to hope for in the 21st century so to speak.

 

[MMC]

Could be a firing squad, but we both know that ain't gonna happen. Even a dishonorable discharge may be too much to hope for in the 21st century so to speak.

Most of the Military I am hearing from.....says he should face Court Martial. Even if they lessen the charge to just AWOL. Also others say his Rank needs to be taken from him. There isn't any reason to up his pay grade.

They can bust him down to a Private with no tripe while he awaits Trial.

 

[Perotista]

Most of the Military I am hearing from.....says he should face Court Martial. Even if they lessen the charge to just AWOL. Also others say his Rank needs to be taken from him. There isn't any reason to up his pay grade.

They can bust him down to a Private with no tripe while he awaits Trial.

Maybe I mellowed in my old age, then again I may just be facing reality of the situation. I think Obama thought getting this dude back would take the VA scandal off the front page, perhaps it has. But it may be replaced with front page news on those 5 Taliban released and the Deserter status of this guy. That is if Berdahl was placed in that status to begin with which he should have been. But it tends to look as if he was carried as POW. How he was carried on the rolls may determine whether a court martial is warranted or not. Maybe even if the military can court martial him or not. Was this guy when he was discovered as missing and leaving his post of duty charged with awol and then desertion or was he just carried as a POW with no charges. It may be semantics to a lot of people, but his status, deserter vs. POW will probably determine what happens to him or could happen to him.

I really doubt the Obama Administration will go the court martial route, so my best hope is the dishonorable discharge. Bust him, no problem. But a dishonorable discharge takes away any and all benefits he may have qualified for. So we will see what happens.

 

[apdst]

Well, I mean, the guy in Mexico is a totally different situation. He broke the law, and he's in prison. Surely you don't think Americans should be exempt from other countries' laws? That would set an awful precedent!

As for Bergdahl being a sympathiser, I think it's absurd. Where's your evidence? That he had human interaction with his captors, who are also normal people? That he played badminton with them?

If you think captured soldiers just repeat their dog-tag ID over and over again for five years in captivity, you've been playing too many WWII videogames.

Bergdahl broke the law. 6 soldiers died because of his decision.

 

[MMC]

Maybe I mellowed in my old age, then again I may just be facing reality of the situation. I think Obama thought getting this dude back would take the VA scandal off the front page, perhaps it has. But it may be replaced with front page news on those 5 Taliban released and the Deserter status of this guy. That is if Berdahl was placed in that status to begin with which he should have been. But it tends to look as if he was carried as POW. How he was carried on the rolls may determine whether a court martial is warranted or not. Maybe even if the military can court martial him or not. Was this guy when he was discovered as missing and leaving his post of duty charged with awol and then desertion or was he just carried as a POW with no charges. It may be semantics to a lot of people, but his status, deserter vs. POW will probably determine what happens to him or could happen to him.

I really doubt the Obama Administration will go the court martial route, so my best hope is the dishonorable discharge. Bust him, no problem. But a dishonorable discharge takes away any and all benefits he may have qualified for. So we will see what happens.

Here is what WIKI has and has had. At least 6 soldiers were killed in the search for him. Note what he wrote home and told his father.


Prior to capture[edit]

On June 25, 2009, Bergdahl's battalion suffered its first casualty. First Lieutenant Brian Bradshaw was killed in a blast from a roadside bomb near the village of Yaya Kheyl, not far from Bergdahl's outpost. According to Rolling Stone,[18] Bergdahl's father believes that Bradshaw and Bergdahl had grown close at the National Training Center, and his death darkened his son's mood.

Last e-mail to parents[edit]

On June 27, 2009, according to Rolling Stone,[19] Bergdahl sent a final e-mai*l to his parents: "The future is too good to waste on lies. And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be american.[sic] The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting."

His e-mail went on to describe his disillusionment with the U.S. Army: "In the US army you are cut down for being honest... but if you are a conceited brown nosing **** bag you will be allowed to do what ever you want, and you will be handed your higher rank... The system is wrong. I am ashamed to be an american. And the title of US soldier is just the lie of fools...I am sorry for everything here. These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live. We don't even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks... We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them...I am sorry for everything. The horror that is america is disgusting...There are a few more boxes coming to you guys. Feel free to open them, and use them.".....snip~

A Department of Defense statement issued on July 19 confirmed that Bergdahl was declared "missing/whereabouts unknown" on July 1, and his status was changed to "missing/captured" on July 3.[27] In the 28-minute video, his captors held up his dog tags to establish that the captured man was Bergdahl.[2] Bergdahl gave the date as July 14 and mentioned an attack that occurred that day.....snip~

Bowe Bergdahl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Perotista]

Here is what WIKI has and has had. At least 6 soldiers were killed in the search for him. Note what he wrote home and told his father.


Prior to capture[edit]

On June 25, 2009, Bergdahl's battalion suffered its first casualty. First Lieutenant Brian Bradshaw was killed in a blast from a roadside bomb near the village of Yaya Kheyl, not far from Bergdahl's outpost. According to Rolling Stone,[18] Bergdahl's father believes that Bradshaw and Bergdahl had grown close at the National Training Center, and his death darkened his son's mood.

Last e-mail to parents[edit]

On June 27, 2009, according to Rolling Stone,[19] Bergdahl sent a final e-mai*l to his parents: "The future is too good to waste on lies. And life is way too short to care for the damnation of others, as well as to spend it helping fools with their ideas that are wrong. I have seen their ideas and I am ashamed to even be american.[sic] The horror of the self-righteous arrogance that they thrive in. It is all revolting."

His e-mail went on to describe his disillusionment with the U.S. Army: "In the US army you are cut down for being honest... but if you are a conceited brown nosing **** bag you will be allowed to do what ever you want, and you will be handed your higher rank... The system is wrong. I am ashamed to be an american. And the title of US soldier is just the lie of fools...I am sorry for everything here. These people need help, yet what they get is the most conceited country in the world telling them that they are nothing and that they are stupid, that they have no idea how to live. We don't even care when we hear each other talk about running their children down in the dirt streets with our armored trucks... We make fun of them in front of their faces, and laugh at them for not understanding we are insulting them...I am sorry for everything. The horror that is america is disgusting...There are a few more boxes coming to you guys. Feel free to open them, and use them.".....snip~

A Department of Defense statement issued on July 19 confirmed that Bergdahl was declared "missing/whereabouts unknown" on July 1, and his status was changed to "missing/captured" on July 3.[27] In the 28-minute video, his captors held up his dog tags to establish that the captured man was Bergdahl.[2] Bergdahl gave the date as July 14 and mentioned an attack that occurred that day.....snip~

Bowe Bergdahl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I read the article, there are a lot of may have’s:

Bergdahl went missing on the night of June 30, 2009 near the town of Yahya Kheyl in Paktika Province.[20] Accounts of his capture differ. In a video, Bergdahl stated that he was captured when he fell behind on a patrol.[2] Taliban sources allege he was ambushed after becoming drunk off base; U.S. military sources deny that claim, stating, "The Taliban are known for lying and what they are claiming [is] not true".[4] A Department of Defense spokesperson said, "I'm glad to see he appears unharmed, but again, this is a Taliban propaganda video. They are exploiting the soldier in violation of international law."[2][3] Other sources said Bergdahl walked off base after his shift[21] or that he was grabbed from a latrine.[22] Some soldiers who served with Bergdahl have alleged that he may have been a deserter.[23][24][25] Nathan Bradley Bethea, a member of Bergdahl's battalion wrote aDaily Beast article which stated that there was no patrol the night that Bergdahl went missing, and that Bergdahl had stated his desire to walk to India. Bethea states that the brigade received an order not to discuss Bergdahl due to safety reasons, but now that he has been found there is not a need for further silence. [26]

And then there is this:

On July 18, 2009, the Taliban released a video showing the captured Bergdahl.[2] In it, Bergdahl appeared downcast and frightened. ADepartment of Defense statement issued on July 19 confirmed that Bergdahl was declared "missing/whereabouts unknown" on July 1, and his status was changed to "missing/captured" on July 3.

So the military carried him as a POW and not as a Deserter. Even before this, his status was Missing/where abouts unknown. Now there has to some documentation as to this status, why the military would resort to missing/where abouts unknown. It is not the standard MIA which may give credence that he walked off his post by his own free will.

I don’t know, perhaps it is best to wait and see before jumping off the cliff. Now there is quite a lot in the article to give one question as to Bergdahl real status or why and how he left and was captured. Being captured in the latrine is one thing, walking off on his own into the wilds is another? Now I am sure he is undergoing shall I call it debriefing in Germany to get to the bottom of all of this. If it is found out for certain that we gave up five hard core Taliban for a deserter, that will leave a bunch of people very unhappy.

But this little item at the bottom of the article really caught my attention:

When Obama signed the bill, he released a signing statement saying that the restriction interfered with the president's executive power as commander in chief.[60]The White House released a statement acknowledging that the release of the Guantanamo prisoners did not comply with the law but cited the president's signing statement, and "unique and exigent circumstances" as justification

So the president doesn’t have to obey the law? I guess Ford should have sent back those 500,000 troop to South Vietnam back in 1975, he could always say the restriction of not sending them back interfered with his authority as commander in chief or the stop bombing law that stopped us from bombing in Cambodia, Nixon should just have continued on with it as that also interfered with his authority as commander in chief. Another precedence has been set.