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Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............LMAO

a351

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

I'd tend to agree, although it's hard to convince the average American of such when only one half of the equation is reported on with any consistency and with such emotion. Substantial increases in export based employment are consistently written off as a given or not reported on at all, while job losses to foreign firms are viewed as tragedies and injustices.
 
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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Free Trade was never about the trade of manufactured goods.

There is no such thing as "Free-Fair Trade" without the control of currency manipulation.

As far back as 1980 (with the introduction of Free Trade) was the point in time when the U.S. Capitalists deliberately set out to abandon the North American Continent and walk away from every promise made to the working class since the end of World War II. The Capitalists don't intend to return to North America until the baby-boomers have all died off in 15 years. Until then, the Chinese can satisfy the North American Continent with just what falls off the assembly lines.

Free Trade was all about giving the rich folks an unfettered opportunity to move their wealth and assets offshore because the Rich Folks had no intention of sticking around while 15 thousand new applicants lined up each and every day (75 million Americans) to collect on the 20 thousand bucks per year as Social Security retirement benefits which were promised to the working class.

The Rich Folks moved their accumulation of wealth offshore and out of reach to any worker who might want to sue and seize assets in lieu of broken promises.

This is exactly what the Capitalists did in 1870 as the British economy bankrupted itself and the Rich Folks in Britain moved their wealth into North America.

We did not see it happening because the U.S. Capitalists created an illusion of success with 15 trillion worth of Federal debt since 1980. (Not including 600 Trillion in Toxic Assets.) Prior to NAFTA being implemented, there was no U.S. Federal debt.

The largest U.S. export to China is scrap metal and scrap paper.
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-archive/EconomicNotes.html

Calm
 
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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Free Trade was never about the trade of manufactured goods.

There is no such thing as "Free-Fair Trade" without the control of currency manipulation.

As far back as 1980 (with the introduction of Free Trade) was the point in time when the U.S. Capitalists deliberately set out to abandon the North American Continent and walk away from every promise made to the working class since the end of World War II. The Capitalists don't intend to return to North America until the baby-boomers have all died off in 15 years. Until then, the Chinese can satisfy the North American Continent with just what falls off the assembly lines.

Free Trade was all about giving the rich folks an unfettered opportunity to move their wealth and assets offshore because the Rich Folks had no intention of sticking around while 15 thousand new applicants lined up each and every day (75 million Americans) to collect on the 20 thousand bucks per year as Social Security retirement benefits which were promised to the working class.

The Rich Folks moved their accumulation of wealth offshore and out of reach to any worker who might want to sue and seize assets in lieu of broken promises.

This is exactly what the Capitalists did in 1870 as the British economy bankrupted itself and the Rich Folks in Britain moved their wealth into North America.

We did not see it happening because the U.S. Capitalists created an illusion of success with 15 trillion worth of Federal debt since 1980. (Not including 600 Trillion in Toxic Assets.) Prior to NAFTA being implemented, there was no U.S. Federal debt.

The largest U.S. export to China is scrap metal and scrap paper.
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-archive/EconomicNotes.html

Calm

wow your a little misillusioned there,seem to have little knowledge on free trade or mercantilism or the years they were practiced,just random rhetoric nomore advanced than the guy wearing a tin hat blaming everyone.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L


free trade is a good thing,it has brought upon the most prosperous era in human history,but once again you point to a utopia that never existed.

im sure the idea of paying people dirt por wages in a factory through a company account and store was so good for the us,as thats how they competed back then.of course as companies become more competitive,non competitive indistries fail unless subsidized.take for example the british car industry,high wages,alot of down time for employees,but virtually no competitive nature,they produced cars so poor in quality that no one really wanted them except rich lawyers who could afford to fix them every other week.

those furnituremanufacturors in nc were uncompetitive,and the only way they could have remained competitive at their rate would have been to bomb all of europe again,and ban all trade with poor nations to ensure they stay dirt poor.of course all your talk about the rich stealing from the poor,yet you hate the the poorer countries take away your gravy positions,but in reality they are competitive in price,not quality,competiters to them only lose when they fail in both quality and price,much like the british did before they had to subsidize thier manufacturing.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

free trade is a good thing,it has brought upon the most prosperous era in human history,but once again you point to a utopia that never existed.

im sure the idea of paying people dirt por wages in a factory through a company account and store was so good for the us,as thats how they competed back then.of course as companies become more competitive,non competitive indistries fail unless subsidized.take for example the british car industry,high wages,alot of down time for employees,but virtually no competitive nature,they produced cars so poor in quality that no one really wanted them except rich lawyers who could afford to fix them every other week.

those furnituremanufacturors in nc were uncompetitive,and the only way they could have remained competitive at their rate would have been to bomb all of europe again,and ban all trade with poor nations to ensure they stay dirt poor.of course all your talk about the rich stealing from the poor,yet you hate the the poorer countries take away your gravy positions,but in reality they are competitive in price,not quality,competiters to them only lose when they fail in both quality and price,much like the british did before they had to subsidize thier manufacturing.

"free trade is a good thing,it has brought upon the most prosperous era in human history"

Well then we all see you are a TRAITOR to the USA. Because we dont GIVE A **** about the "human history" all we care about is the
US CITIZEN in the USA............

Time to OIL that Gillotine!
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

free trade is a good thing,it has brought upon the most prosperous era in human history

There is/was no free trade in recent history. Yes, that includes America.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

There is/was no free trade in recent history. Yes, that includes America.

well you can call it freeish trade.

im quite aware there never has been free trade or laizzess faire capitalism ever practiced,as someone somewhere will always restrict trade between other countries or within their own countries in an attempt to favor their own interests.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

"free trade is a good thing,it has brought upon the most prosperous era in human history"

Well then we all see you are a TRAITOR to the USA. Because we dont GIVE A **** about the "human history" all we care about is the
US CITIZEN in the USA............

Time to OIL that Gillotine!

so you think the rest of the world should be slaves and suffer so americans can have 2 cars a house and only work 10 hours a week?????you seem to mirror the mentality you claim all the rich capitalists to have,it seems you care not about anything but your own self interests,and call everyone else greedy for looking after theirs.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

I'd tend to agree, although it's hard to convince the average American of such when only one half of the equation is reported on with any consistency and with such emotion. Substantial increases in export based employment are consistently written off as a given or not reported on at all, while job losses to foreign firms are viewed as tragedies and injustices.
Substantial? We have 3 people fighting for every 1 available job.

Increases in export and import related employment COMBINED are countered many times over by just the loss of manufacturing jobs due to offshoring. Not to mention the loss of tech and service jobs.

You yourself have just tried to report only half of the equation and that is what Americans see. We see the whole picture. We also see right through the likes of your arguments.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

wow your a little misillusioned there,seem to have little knowledge on free trade or mercantilism or the years they were practiced,just random rhetoric nomore advanced than the guy wearing a tin hat blaming everyone.
You acknowledge that calm's facts were accurate, though. Or, at least, you refused to even try to refute the factual statements made in their post.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

so you think the rest of the world should be slaves and suffer so americans can have 2 cars a house and only work 10 hours a week?????you seem to mirror the mentality you claim all the rich capitalists to have,it seems you care not about anything but your own self interests,and call everyone else greedy for looking after theirs.
ROTFLMAO oh my GOD, man.

The reason why we have free trade is because we rely on the rest of the world being slaves. Do you even understand what the phrase CHEAP LABOR means and how it relates to international trade? CHEAP / SLAVE LABOR is the LIFE BLOOD of trade.

Without CHEAP LABOR globalization makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Anti-offshoring is at its core ANTI SLAVE LABOR.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

You acknowledge that calm's facts were accurate, though. Or, at least, you refused to even try to refute the factual statements made in their post.

well i shouldnt have to point out the obvious.

for one he stated free trade wasnt about trading manufactured goods,in which it is,it is the free trading of goods and services with minimal restrictions between countries.

he also stated capitalists walked away from this country in 1980,which is quite false,outsourcing had been going on since the 50s and had been growing since,it was the natural result of the world re industrializing after ww2.the only reason outsourcing didnt heavil occur at first post ww2 was because we were the only major country left untouched from ww2 with major manufacturing capability,hence we had zero competition.


i could just as easily refute the rest of his arguments,but just refuting thetop part of his post seemed like i wasted too much time already.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

ROTFLMAO oh my GOD, man.

The reason why we have free trade is because we rely on the rest of the world being slaves. Do you even understand what the phrase CHEAP LABOR means and how it relates to international trade? CHEAP / SLAVE LABOR is the LIFE BLOOD of trade.

Without CHEAP LABOR globalization makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Anti-offshoring is at its core ANTI SLAVE LABOR.

not true,the core of free trade is unrestricted or very little restriction on trade between countries.lower countries charge less therefor usually get more business,but those that get more business grow,therefore they could only stay slaves if we didnt trade with them.

capitalism has industrialized countries,free trade brough japan from a smouldering pile of rubble into amajor world competitor,countries like china and india have grown due to the results of free trade.

therefor the argument you are making makes no sense,unless you demand the country be well off to trade with them,then at which point every poor country would stay poor forever,or simply you advocate the protectionists method of kicking down the ladder to keep others from climbing up,without actually admitting thats what you want.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

well i shouldnt have to point out the obvious.

for one he stated free trade wasnt about trading manufactured goods,in which it is,it is the free trading of goods and services with minimal restrictions between countries.
Free trade would not exist without currency manipulations and, more importantly, cheap foreign labor.

he also stated capitalists walked away from this country in 1980,which is quite false
No, he was totally right on that point. Our trade deficit EXPLODED after that.

outsourcing had been going on since the 50s and had been growing since,it was the natural result of the world re industrializing after ww2.the only reason outsourcing didnt heavil occur at first post ww2 was because we were the only major country left untouched from ww2 with major manufacturing capability,hence we had zero competition.
Let me explain something to you in the plainest words possible.

Even in times when foreign countries did not get devastated by war, America has never, ever run the kind of monster trade deficits that we run now. EVER.

Your argument, thus, fails to explain this mess.

i could just as easily refute the rest of his arguments
You could not. You have failed to do so to date.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

not true,the core of free trade is unrestricted or very little restriction on trade between countries.
You're missing the point. I'll break this down simply for you:

1) Without cheap foreign labor it costs too much to import foreign goods.
2) When it costs too much to import foreign goods, it becomes cheaper to make it here.
3) That means importing foreign goods stops. Everything becomes local.

Trade exists for one reason: it's cheaper to get something elsewhere than to make it here. There's no universe outside of that when it comes to trade. If it's cheaper to make here, it's made here. Labor costs are the #1 driver of the cost of production.

Cheap labor is the heart of international trade.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Free trade would not exist without currency manipulations and, more importantly, cheap foreign labor.


No, he was totally right on that point. Our trade deficit EXPLODED after that.


Let me explain something to you in the plainest words possible.

Even in times when foreign countries did not get devastated by war, America has never, ever run the kind of monster trade deficits that we run now. EVER.

Your argument, thus, fails to explain this mess.


You could not. You have failed to do so to date.

no mercantilism can not exist without currency manipulation,which is a form of protectionism and against capitalism.


the 80's did see trade deficits,of course would you rather america have barred all japanese products and left the japanese poor and undeveloped?????

lastly trade deficits are mercantil not capitalist,you are using economic logic that came about at the same time people thought if they sailed too far they would fall off the earth.trade deficits fail horribly in practice as for one country to maintain a surplus,the other must be in a deficit,whereas free trade advocates free and mutual exchange.the idea of trade deficits requiring there to be a winner and a loser have caused alot of fighting and turmoil over the centuries.


but of course if you like to push an antique idea that failed in practice,be prepared to back it up
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Free Trade is a good thing. Or at least it certainly can be. It is for me. Over half of my income is from products I make here in the USA and sell to Canada and Europe. NAFTA has enabled me to partner up with a Canadian distributor without onerous tariffs making the whole thing impractical.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

no mercantilism can not exist without currency manipulation,which is a form of protectionism and against capitalism.
Ah, I see, your definition of free trade is what is twisted.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

You're missing the point. I'll break this down simply for you:

1) Without cheap foreign labor it costs too much to import foreign goods.
2) When it costs too much to import foreign goods, it becomes cheaper to make it here.
3) That means importing foreign goods stops. Everything becomes local.

Trade exists for one reason: it's cheaper to get something elsewhere than to make it here. There's no universe outside of that when it comes to trade. If it's cheaper to make here, it's made here. Labor costs are the #1 driver of the cost of production.

Cheap labor is the heart of international trade.

one no it does not cost too much to import foreign goods without cheap labor.we import alot from germany,which has a more expensive currency and pays higher wages and benefits.the only way it would be impossible would be if every company became as inneficient and uncompetitive as possible,which is part of why american industry has declined.just look at american cars,the big three costs more money than most manufacturors to make,suffers from quality compared to japanese cars which are cheaper.so overall not only are they more expensive,but cheaply made,therefore they are uncompetitive,whereas if they put much more in construction,they would be competitive towards relevant markets.


so answer that,why can sweden make ikea products cheaper than us,while paying high wages,why can germans charge less than american companies,yet pay higher and charge less.the key is they are competitive,and the american industry seems to be stuck in 1955 mentality and complacency.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Ah, I see, your definition of free trade is what is twisted.

Policy in which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports. A free-trade policy does not necessarily imply that the government abandons all control and taxation of imports and exports, but rather that it refrains from actions specifically designed to hinder international trade, such as tariff barriers, currency restrictions, and import quotas. The theoretical case for free trade is based on Adam Smith's argument that the division of labour among countries leads to specialization, greater efficiency, and higher aggregate production. The way to foster such a division of labour, Smith believed, is to allow nations to make and sell whatever products can compete successfully in an international market.

Free trade - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

seems mine is dead on,and rather yours is simply made up to be what you want it to be for arguments sake.

oh and mercantilism
Economic theory and policy influential in Europe from the 16th to the 18th century that called for government regulation of a nation's economy in order to increase its power at the expense of rival nations. Though the theory existed earlier, the term was not coined until the 18th century; it was given currency by Adam Smith in his Wealth of Nations (1776). Mercantilism's emphasis on the importance of gold and silver holdings as a sign of a nation's wealth and power led to policies designed to obtain precious metals through trade by ensuring “favourable” trade balances (see balance of trade), meaning an excess of exports over imports, especially if a nation did not possess mines or have access to them. In a favourable trade balance, payments for the goods or services had to be made with gold or silver. Colonial possessions were to serve as markets for exports and as suppliers of raw materials to the mother country, a policy that created conflict between the European colonial powers and their colonies, in particular fanning resentment of Britain in the North American colonies and helping bring about the American Revolution. Mercantilism favoured a large population to supply labourers, purchasers of goods, and soldiers. Thrift and saving were emphasized as virtues because they made possible the creation of capital. Mercantilism provided a favourable climate for the early development of capitalism but was later severely criticized, especially by advocates of laissez-faire, who argued that all trade was beneficial and that strict government controls were counterproductive.

Mercantilism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

Policy in which a government does not discriminate against imports or interfere with exports. A free-trade policy does not necessarily imply that the government abandons all control and taxation of imports and exports, but rather that it refrains from actions specifically designed to hinder international trade, such as tariff barriers, currency restrictions, and import quotas. The theoretical case for free trade is based on Adam Smith's argument that the division of labour among countries leads to specialization, greater efficiency, and higher aggregate production. The way to foster such a division of labour, Smith believed, is to allow nations to make and sell whatever products can compete successfully in an international market.
And a country that practices this definition of free trade is easy prey for another country that practices mercantilism.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

And a country that practices this definition of free trade is easy prey for another country that practices mercantilism.

not at all,as a country that practices mercantilism disadvantages themselves,for a mercantile economy to succeed in the free market world,there would have to be no competition,or that countries industries would have to be more effecient than the boundaries placed upon them which claim to protect them but simply hurt them.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

so you think the rest of the world should be slaves and suffer so americans can have 2 cars a house and only work 10 hours a week?????you seem to mirror the mentality you claim all the rich capitalists to have,it seems you care not about anything but your own self interests,and call everyone else greedy for looking after theirs.

We actully have some of the worst labor laws and working conditions of the western world. And China is free to builds its own homes and cars. No reason
to allow them to steal USA jobs at our expence.
 

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Re: Free Trade ............its a GOOD THING as the Felon from NYC says..............L

one no it does not cost too much to import foreign goods without cheap labor.we import alot from germany,which has a more expensive currency and pays higher wages and benefits.the only way it would be impossible would be if every company became as inneficient and uncompetitive as possible,which is part of why american industry has declined.just look at american cars,the big three costs more money than most manufacturors to make,suffers from quality compared to japanese cars which are cheaper.so overall not only are they more expensive,but cheaply made,therefore they are uncompetitive,whereas if they put much more in construction,they would be competitive towards relevant markets.


so answer that,why can sweden make ikea products cheaper than us,while paying high wages,why can germans charge less than american companies,yet pay higher and charge less.the key is they are competitive,and the american industry seems to be stuck in 1955 mentality and complacency.

It's because of employee benefits and cost of living here in the United States. Plus Unions. This forces companies to pay more money to labor compared to other countries that have lower cost of living and less benefits in some other countries. Another reason why there are imports is because we have a big demand for certain products that can easily be satisfied from another country's production.
 
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