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France Riots-Liberal Policies Don't Work

hipsterdufus said:
Some advice - the GOP is about to lose the entire Latino voting block that they have been courting for years. :2wave:

Is this year's wedge issue du jour worth it?

Are you serious? The "latino voting block" is completely split on this issue. No matter which way the GOP goes on this, its not going to have the impact you attribute to it. And it's certainly not just the GOP.

And you forget...those who are the most pissed? The 12 million illegal immigrants who don't vote anyways.
 
My absolute favorite thing in the world is watching a conservative make a good point then watch the liberals desperately attempt to attack it for 8 pages.

Gogo aqua.
 
jfuh said:
1)So what now? Your parents are to blame for you growing up poor? Cause they "screwed themselves into their situation"?

2) By the way, still waiting on your facts and sources on how liberal policies don't work.


1) Yes, and I was responsible for getting myself out of it, and I did. What about it? I didn't whine and lie about how screwed I was and expect the government to sodomize the economy to put my diapers on-because I am an adult, not a liberal.

2) This would be the sixth time you've dodged my response to this phony posturing. I have given all kinds of examples. Challenge one. Still waiting...

Thought so. :lol:
 
FreeThinker said:
My absolute favorite thing in the world is watching a conservative make a good point then watch the liberals desperately attempt to attack it for 8 pages.

Gogo aqua.

You would think it might occur to them that you don't have to resort to all those hollow, bitter personal attacks if you just operate on facts and evidence instead of hysteria and conspiracy theories.

The evidence goes completely against them on this, so they have to resort to intellectually devoid posturing and bickering. :rofl
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
That's a total farce. It is not protesting that is going on in France it is a riot.

What? A liberal is distorting things to get away from evidence that their policies don't work?

I think Millsy knows, as we all do, that these riots are far from peaceful.
 
steen said:
We have already challenged you to prove the lie that riots are proof that Liberal policies don't work.

Your continued and cowardly avoidance of providing that proof is merely demonstration of how lame and ignorant your claims are.

ATTENTION ALL:

Since Steen and Jfuh don't have the attention spans/integrity to stop making phony requests for facts I have given them three or four times now, I have taken segments from all the times I answered this and threw various parts of them together.

Now remember, when you two start lying again, and acting like this (or the last four posts) didn't happen, I will repeat this. So refute it or stop discrediting yourselves. :roll:



Economy growth in percentage…
France: 2.2%, Germany 1.1%, and so on (for Socialist countries)…

New numbers came out on the news just yesterday…

America has held strong once again at 5% growth (which is huge for an economy this size!), China, who is growing now that they are moving away from Capitalism, is at an astonishing 10%, similar with India…who has spent the last decade moving away from Socialism. Hong Kong is the least regulated (least Socialist) country on Earth. They had no resources to start with, yet they have always been a thriving metropolis.

Forget all the examples of countries with no resources that economically take off when they move to Capitalism. Forget all the ones where countries go Socialist and their economies slow to a crawl. Forget that it takes an average of five years for college graduates to find a job in France. Forget about your common sense telling you that insanely huge tax hikes to pay for a million obscenely expensive social programs is going to sodomize the economy.

There are a million ways to prove that Socialism sucks, but you don’t need any of them. Just think about how well things aren’t run when the government is put in charge and then take into account that Socialism would have us put every aspect of our lives in the hands of the government. Enough said.

Public/private schools, public/private housing, public/private transportation, government cheese/private cheese...compare anything… it all comes out the same. Capitalist systems do it faster, cheaper, and better. Profits motivate better service. No profit means no innovation, no competition, no urgency.

If you want to reduce medical costs in America, don’t try to fix it by taking ten steps backwards into the government cheese of health care. Pass medical liability reform (medical malpractice insurance is utterly sodomizing family doctors out of business and jacking up our health care costs tremendously), do something about the 12 million illegal immigrants being rewarded for breaking our laws, who are skyrocketing our health care costs by getting free health care. There are real solutions, but they tend to come from Republicans.
 
jfuh said:
No, all you've posted are your own opinions, you've not posted a single source to support your lame "facts".


Both Steen and I have called you out on this several times and yet you've avoided answering them each time. Show us your proof that liberal policies don't work. Proof is not just your own opinion but involves your provision of a credible source, which not limited to this thread alone, but you've failed to ever provide.


Not rocket science....

1) cite one of my facts

2) challenge it and ask for proof

3) be proved wrong.


The more you dance around this process, the more you prove what a shallow phony you are.
 
aquapub said:
What? A liberal is distorting things to get away from evidence that their policies don't work?

I think Millsy knows, as we all do, that these riots are far from peaceful.

I think Millsy knows the truth. That the majority of these protests are peaceful, and sadly a few have been highjacked by troublemakers who are nothing to do with the anti-CPE movement. Of course it's those few you'll see on Fox news with no reference to the others. Take it from me - I'm here on the ground seeing it with my own eyes. But of course, you'll prefer to believe Fox news, not being that interested in the truth, like most cons.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
I think Millsy knows the truth. That the majority of these protests are peaceful, and sadly a few have been highjacked by troublemakers who are nothing to do with the anti-CPE movement. Of course it's those few you'll see on Fox news with no reference to the others. Take it from me - I'm here on the ground seeing it with my own eyes. But of course, you'll prefer to believe Fox news, not being that interested in the truth, like most cons.


Actually I got that impression from CNN's coverage-you know, that news source that's been headed up by left-wing lunatic, Ted Turner...which, according to the Left's rhetoric about media bias, means the whole entire network has to be slanted to the Left?

Nice try though. ;)
 
jfuh said:
ANyone else on here feel I've misrepresented aqua as a racist?


You are claiming I said minorities are the source of all poverty. I never said anything like that.

Call me crazy, but yes, you are misrepresenting me.

Also, In democracy, population is critical. If I want things I hold sacred to remain a part of this country, the population that will have to dominate for them to stay here are middle class, white families.

I cited a statistical/demographic reality and you have intentionally misrepresented it as a white supremacist view over and over despite having it explained to you.

The moderators have been notified of your persistent, utterly dishonest attempts to derail this thread by knowingly making false, off-topic personal attacks on me.

Good day.
 
aquapub said:
ATTENTION ALL:

Economy growth in percentage…
France: 2.2%, Germany 1.1%, and so on (for Socialist countries)…

New numbers came out on the news just yesterday…

America has held strong once again at 5% growth (which is huge for an economy this size!), China, who is growing now that they are moving away from Capitalism, is at an astonishing 10%, similar with India…who has spent the last decade moving away from Socialism. Hong Kong is the least regulated (least Socialist) country on Earth. They had no resources to start with, yet they have always been a thriving metropolis.

Forget all the examples of countries with no resources that economically take off when they move to Capitalism. Forget all the ones where countries go Socialist and their economies slow to a crawl. Forget that it takes an average of five years for college graduates to find a job in France. Forget about your common sense telling you that insanely huge tax hikes to pay for a million obscenely expensive social programs is going to sodomize the economy.

There are a million ways to prove that Socialism sucks, but you don’t need any of them. Just think about how well things aren’t run when the government is put in charge and then take into account that Socialism would have us put every aspect of our lives in the hands of the government. Enough said.

Public/private schools, public/private housing, public/private transportation, government cheese/private cheese...compare anything… it all comes out the same. Capitalist systems do it faster, cheaper, and better. Profits motivate better service. No profit means no innovation, no competition, no urgency.

If you want to reduce medical costs in America, don’t try to fix it by taking ten steps backwards into the government cheese of health care. Pass medical liability reform (medical malpractice insurance is utterly sodomizing family doctors out of business and jacking up our health care costs tremendously), do something about the 12 million illegal immigrants being rewarded for breaking our laws, who are skyrocketing our health care costs by getting free health care. There are real solutions, but they tend to come from Republicans.


Let's not forget that "proof of liberal policies not working" can be found just in the fact that they are even trying to make it possible for companies to commit the ultra-conservative, evil act of actually laying people off when they can't afford them, which allows the company to actually stay in business-which SAVES JOBS-instead of sticking with the LIBERAL POLICIES which needlessly make it nearly impossible to let people go, hence needlessly make companies go bankrupt any time they have a temporary cash flow problem.

Like I said, if you would like to contest something I've said, challenge it. I am eager to prove you wrong again.

-You won't provide any specific complaints (I think we both know why).
-These points I've made are largely common knowledge.
-Remember in the "Population Decline" thread, when you ranted through ten or so posts smearing me for not providing examples of American heritage (like I was cowering from you :lol: ) and I finally had to go back to the beginning and show you how, if you would just read my original post, you would see plenty of examples?

What did you do in response to being confronted with your hysterical, embarrassing, mistaken rant? You changed the subject (without a word about being proved wrong) to whether or not Christmas was a part of American heritage.

Why strive to convince someone of anything when being proved wrong never phases them or prompts them to change anything? A little more substance, honesty please. :roll:
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
That's a total farce. It is not protesting that is going on in France it is a riot.

It is protesting.

It was rioting last year.

I'm sure you're getting much better news coverage in North America than we are here, because we know how well tuned to world North Americans are, but it's a LARGELY, not entirely, peaceful protests.

On the weekend a crowd had to be dispersed with water cannons. I'm sure that the images made news everywhere.

Do you know why they had to disperse the crowd?

Because they were protesting past the time they were permitted to. Are you kidding me? That's not a riot. I'm not spinning anything. A hundred thousand young kids, a couple of hooligans are going to jump at the chance to get out an throw some rocks. And guess who makes the news? They are not even close to riots.

Think about it logically. There are Hundreds of thousands of youths marching. If they were actually rioting that country would be in complete anarchy. It's not. Last years riots almost destroyed the place and they had a minute percentage of the people who are peacefully protesting this time around.
 
[mod mode]

Unbelievable. This thread is about the French riots and their "liberal" policies. Barring anyone else's sentiments or views into what is and what is not "on topic," I will produce my own list.....

Post #1-4 On Topic
Post #5-11 Off Topic ('jfuh' tried to get the thread back on topic
twice and 'KCConservative' tried to get the thread back on
topic once.)
Post #12 Off Topic
Post #13 On Topic
Post #14-25 Off Topic
Post #26 On Topic
Post #27-37 Off Topic
Post #38-40 On Topic
Post #41 Off Topic
Post #42 On Topic
Post #43 Off Topic
Post #44 On Topic
Post #45-46 Off Topic
Post#47-60 On Topic
Post#61 Off Topic (Jfuh attempts to place words in Aquapubs mouth)
Post#62-63 On Topic (Aquapub attempts to clarify his position)
Post#64 Off Topic
Post#65-67 On Topic (Aquapub attempts to clarify his position)
Post#68-69 Off Topic
Post#70 On Topic
Post#71 Off Topic
Post#72-88 On Topic (Aquapub attempts to retrack thread)


Out of "88" total posts, "45" are on topic and "43" are not on topic. The "43" count is nothing but petty insults or name calling in which several have been reported by the very individuals involved in thei thread. Hypocrisy will allow a person to report an insult and then insult that individual in the next post. There is nothing wrong with a quick jab here and there, but constant badgering between members, post after post, is not constructive to the reason most individuals join a debate site. Aquapub has made an effort to steer this back on course where he intended it to be since post #1.

It will up to you all if this thread remains open.



[/mod mode]
 
millsy said:
It is protesting.

It was rioting last year.

I'm sure you're getting much better news coverage in North America than we are here, because we know how well tuned to world North Americans are, but it's a LARGELY, not entirely, peaceful protests.

On the weekend a crowd had to be dispersed with water cannons. I'm sure that the images made news everywhere.

Do you know why they had to disperse the crowd?

Because they were protesting past the time they were permitted to. Are you kidding me? That's not a riot. I'm not spinning anything. A hundred thousand young kids, a couple of hooligans are going to jump at the chance to get out an throw some rocks. And guess who makes the news? They are not even close to riots.

Think about it logically. There are Hundreds of thousands of youths marching. If they were actually rioting that country would be in complete anarchy. It's not. Last years riots almost destroyed the place and they had a minute percentage of the people who are peacefully protesting this time around.

No what is happening in France are not peaceful protests, our illegal immigrant population conducted peace protests they numbered in the hundreds of thousands as well and there were no outbreaks of violence, if you consider what is going on in France to be peaceful then you have a very strange definition of peaceful:

france.jpg


French police subdue riots over jobs law
PARIS (AP) — Police loosed water cannons and tear gas on rioting students and activists rampaged through a McDonald's and attacked store fronts in the capital Saturday as demonstrations against a plan to relax job protections spread in a widening arc across France.

At the close of a march in Paris that drew a crowd of tens of thousands, seven officers and 17 protesters were injured during two melees, at the Place de la Nation in eastern Paris and the Sorbonne University. Police said they arrested 156 people in the French capital.
Four cars were set afire, police said, and a McDonald's restaurant was attacked along with store fronts at the close of the march.
Tensions escalated later Saturday as about 500 youths moved on to the Sorbonne, trying to break through tall metal blockades erected after police stormed the Paris landmark a week ago to dislodge occupying students. The university has become a symbol of the protest.

n an apparent effort to set fire to a police van serving as a blockade, protesters instead torched the entrance of a nearby Gap store, apparently by accident, engulfing the small porch in flames.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2006-03-18-france-job-protests_x.htm

Yes yes, peaceful indeed. :roll:
 
Labor unions serve no purpose now that federal law covers everything they were created for. Now, they raise the cost of hiring Americans (frivolously) and get our jobs sent overseas. They try to make it as difficult for people to get fired/laid off here as it is in France...that way, if a company runs into a minor, temporary cash flow problem, they can't fix it by downsizing...they just have to go out of business and kill ten times as many jobs...not that anything is wrong with liberal policies. :roll:

Frivolous lawsuits are skyrocketing our health care costs. This is common knowledge and simple math. Doctors have to pay $20,000/month for malpractice insurance = egregiously expensive health care. Republicans have tried several time to restrict liability...Democrats have blocked every single reform of any kind...not that liberal policies don't work or anything. :roll:

Higher taxes...simple math...when small businesses get taxed more, there is less economic expansion, less jobs, more expensive health care, etc...not that there is anything wrong with liberal policies. :roll:

Illegal immigration. The last numbers I heard (and Danarhea has posted more apparently) were2/5 of all federal prisoners are illegals. There are 12 million here, millions more crossing the border every day to bankrupt our schools and then go back NO QUESTIONS ASKED, and all of these people get free health care work. They also bottom out the wages in otherwise well-paying labor jobs. They work under the table, so, all they do to make up for all the damage is what, sales tax? Come on, it doesn't even come close! Liberals support this border insanity, conservatives oppose it...Not that there's anything wrong with liberal policies. :roll:
 
Liberal policies have been harmful in France.

The French have done this to themselves, but not in the way people suspect. The French government have not turned their Muslim population into a permanent underclass. Despite the colossal level of bigotry in the French hierarchy, Muslims have done this to themselves through their unwillingness to assimilate into their surroundings. On the surface, Muslims have not been marginalized in French public life...

After the French government announced plans to expel jihadist imams from France last year, the anouncement was made by Jean-Pierre Raffarin that "there is no lumping together of the expulsion of imams and the Muslim community in general."

Not too long before this, France established an official organization to oversee French Islam, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), and had even discussed revising France’s age old secular laws of seperation between church and state to allow the government to fund mosques in France, in order to wean them away from "extremist" foreign influences.

When two French journalists were kidnapped in Iraq in August 2004, Dominique de Villepin went to a mosque to join Muslims in prayer for their release — and drew applause when he spoke of the unity between non-Muslims and Muslims in France.

France has made ongoing efforts to make its Muslim population feel included, loved, and French — efforts they are now being universally excoriated for not having made. The French are guilty of the same thing they are always guilty of - failure to recognize the growing threat and making every appeasing liberal attempt to make it go away. Just like in so many corners of the world where a multiple number of Islamists live, they are blaming some one else for their civilization's failures. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and prospering like people from every religion have done, they choose to blame a scapegoat.

Most of the rioters from last year and from this year are the French-born children of immigrants from Arab and African countries. A large percentage are Muslim. Their parents' generation was invited to France as laborers who were expected to return home but didn't. The new generation is coming of age in the midst of France's worst economic slump in years and during a time when many in the country, which is culturally Christian but officially secular, are increasingly fearful of the growth of Islam inside its borders. At present, the country has an estimated 6 million Muslims, most of African descent. The fear of losing France's traditional white European identity fueled French voters' rejection of the proposed European Union constitution last summer and has heightened French opposition to admitting Muslim Turkey into the E.U. (Of course, there are other factors in play).

In France's defense (ouch..that hurt), they are victims of a civilization's failures just like the entire western world. This is the sort of thing that I have talked about when speaking of the fundamental spread of Islam. One only has to pull out a map. We allowed the government's of the Middle East to abuse and oppress their people just as long as the oil flowed. Islamic extremism has been the desperate development. In France, they are dealing with their own version of this. Of course, the mainstream media and French government has yet to admit that what is occurring is the beginnings of what it will eventually turn into even though all of the signs are obvious.

Some interesting signs...

1) It has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.

2) The rioters have been heard shouting the jihad battle cry, "Allahu akbar" and have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.

3) French Jewish synagogues and Christian churches have been targetted.

4) Mouloud Dahmani is a Muslim leader in France who has tried on at least two occassions to prevail upon the French to allow for a group of Muslim Brotherhood sheikhs to negotiate an end to the riots. The Muslim Brotherhood, of course, is the first modern Islamic jihad organization and the direct forefather of Hamas and Al-Qaeda.

Jacques Chirac and de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community. That illusion has now been shattered — and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb." It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

Where have we seen this before? Look at that map, identify where Islamists are lashing out through violence and take your pick. It won't be long before the rest of the world stops appeasing and coddling and starts identifying the true issues behind Islamic extremism and the vast size of it's adherents. Maybe after enough of France has burned and the explosions begin, even the French will acknowledge that America had the right idea the whole time regarding a democratic and necessary social change in the Middle East where Muslims have been mostly "victimized" by the prosperities of the west. You can't fight terrorism without addressing it's roots.


"Social Inequality & Class Radicalism in France & Britain" by Duncan Gallie

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=72731&d=5&m=11&y=2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

Islam in France - http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=514

Mouloud Dahmani - http://posseincitatus.typepad.com/posse_incitatus/2005/11/crescent_of_fir.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1516006/posts
 
GySgt said:
Where have we seen this before? Look at that map, identify where Islamists are lashing out through violence and take your pick. It won't be long before the rest of the world stops appeasing and coddling and starts identifying the true issues behind Islamic extremism and the vast size of it's adherents. Maybe after enough of France has burned and the explosions begin, even the French will acknowledge that America had the right idea the whole time regarding a democratic and necessary social change in the Middle East where Muslims have been mostly "victimized" by the prosperities of the west. You can't fight terrorism without addressing it's roots.


There is no greater PC lie than the one that Islam is a religion of peace. From the army Mohammod raised in Medina and took to Mecca to yesterday's suicide bombing, Islam is drenched in blood.

I do believe that we are on the brink of facing the reality that treating them the way we treat blacks in this country (catering to their paranoid bigotry-making) with LIBERAL POLICIES like race preferences (Jayson Blair) does nothing but turn them into professional victims.
 
aquapub said:
There is no greater PC lie than the one that Islam is a religion of peace. From the army Mohammod raised in Medina and took to Mecca to yesterday's suicide bombing, Islam is drenched in blood.

I do believe that we are on the brink of facing the reality that treating them the way we treat blacks in this country (catering to their paranoid bigotry-making) with LIBERAL POLICIES like race preferences (Jayson Blair) does nothing but turn them into professional victims.

You have two issues here...

1) Every religion is drenched in blood. Throughout history, from the days of Jewish rebels against Rome and Islam’s early and recurrent fractures, through 16th-century Spanish Catholicism alarmed at the advent of alternate paths to salvation, to 19th-century Protestantism startled by Charles Darwin, religions under siege invariably have responded by returning to doctrinal rigor and insisting upon the damnation of nonbelievers. Each major religion has known its share of threats to its philosophical and practical integrity and each major religion has made war in the name of it. It is true that Islam’s inherent divisiveness lends itself to radical interpretation of Qur’an and Hadiths and that these texts support a potential for violence not found in other major religions, but we should all recognize that there is a "true Islam" in the world. What you are focusing on is the perversion of it of which millions of Radicals adhere to, and their "martyrs" slaughter in the name of.

2) I know what you are saying, but you should also recognize that our civilization has prospered far beyond those other civilizations who would practice the age old discipline of the subjugation of women and the passed down bigotries of racial seperation. We have prospered, because we have encouraged our human capitol and allowed all races and genders to contribute their creativity and their ingenuity to our society. Witness the Middle East to see what a civilization looks like that restricts half of their civilization from contributing. You may not like the "liberal" policies that have allowed for the assimilation of the races, but your country is better for it.
 
aquapub said:
Labor unions serve no purpose now that federal law covers everything they were created for. Now, they raise the cost of hiring Americans (frivolously) and get our jobs sent overseas. They try to make it as difficult for people to get fired/laid off here as it is in France...that way, if a company runs into a minor, temporary cash flow problem, they can't fix it by downsizing...they just have to go out of business and kill ten times as many jobs...not that anything is wrong with liberal policies. :roll:

Frivolous lawsuits are skyrocketing our health care costs. This is common knowledge and simple math. Doctors have to pay $20,000/month for malpractice insurance = egregiously expensive health care. Republicans have tried several time to restrict liability...Democrats have blocked every single reform of any kind...not that liberal policies don't work or anything. :roll:

Higher taxes...simple math...when small businesses get taxed more, there is less economic expansion, less jobs, more expensive health care, etc...not that there is anything wrong with liberal policies. :roll:

Illegal immigration. The last numbers I heard (and Danarhea has posted more apparently) were2/5 of all federal prisoners are illegals. There are 12 million here, millions more crossing the border every day to bankrupt our schools and then go back NO QUESTIONS ASKED, and all of these people get free health care work. They also bottom out the wages in otherwise well-paying labor jobs. They work under the table, so, all they do to make up for all the damage is what, sales tax? Come on, it doesn't even come close! Liberals support this border insanity, conservatives oppose it...Not that there's anything wrong with liberal policies. :roll:

Have any credible sources to back up these claims? The burden of proof rests with you. I will not simply take your statment alone. As you say, you have credible sources so please cite.
 
GySgt said:
Liberal policies have been harmful in France.

The French have done this to themselves, but not in the way people suspect. The French government have not turned their Muslim population into a permanent underclass. Despite the colossal level of bigotry in the French hierarchy, Muslims have done this to themselves through their unwillingness to assimilate into their surroundings. On the surface, Muslims have not been marginalized in French public life...

After the French government announced plans to expel jihadist imams from France last year, the anouncement was made by Jean-Pierre Raffarin that "there is no lumping together of the expulsion of imams and the Muslim community in general."

Not too long before this, France established an official organization to oversee French Islam, the French Council for the Muslim Religion (CFCM), and had even discussed revising France’s age old secular laws of seperation between church and state to allow the government to fund mosques in France, in order to wean them away from "extremist" foreign influences.

When two French journalists were kidnapped in Iraq in August 2004, Dominique de Villepin went to a mosque to join Muslims in prayer for their release — and drew applause when he spoke of the unity between non-Muslims and Muslims in France.

France has made ongoing efforts to make its Muslim population feel included, loved, and French — efforts they are now being universally excoriated for not having made. The French are guilty of the same thing they are always guilty of - failure to recognize the growing threat and making every appeasing liberal attempt to make it go away. Just like in so many corners of the world where a multiple number of Islamists live, they are blaming some one else for their civilization's failures. Instead of rolling up their sleeves and prospering like people from every religion have done, they choose to blame a scapegoat.

Most of the rioters from last year and from this year are the French-born children of immigrants from Arab and African countries. A large percentage are Muslim. Their parents' generation was invited to France as laborers who were expected to return home but didn't. The new generation is coming of age in the midst of France's worst economic slump in years and during a time when many in the country, which is culturally Christian but officially secular, are increasingly fearful of the growth of Islam inside its borders. At present, the country has an estimated 6 million Muslims, most of African descent. The fear of losing France's traditional white European identity fueled French voters' rejection of the proposed European Union constitution last summer and has heightened French opposition to admitting Muslim Turkey into the E.U. (Of course, there are other factors in play).

In France's defense (ouch..that hurt), they are victims of a civilization's failures just like the entire western world. This is the sort of thing that I have talked about when speaking of the fundamental spread of Islam. One only has to pull out a map. We allowed the government's of the Middle East to abuse and oppress their people just as long as the oil flowed. Islamic extremism has been the desperate development. In France, they are dealing with their own version of this. Of course, the mainstream media and French government has yet to admit that what is occurring is the beginnings of what it will eventually turn into even though all of the signs are obvious.

Some interesting signs...

1) It has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.

2) The rioters have been heard shouting the jihad battle cry, "Allahu akbar" and have avoided Muslim-owned businesses, preferring obviously non-Muslim targets.

3) French Jewish synagogues and Christian churches have been targetted.

4) Mouloud Dahmani is a Muslim leader in France who has tried on at least two occassions to prevail upon the French to allow for a group of Muslim Brotherhood sheikhs to negotiate an end to the riots. The Muslim Brotherhood, of course, is the first modern Islamic jihad organization and the direct forefather of Hamas and Al-Qaeda.

Jacques Chirac and de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community. That illusion has now been shattered — and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb." It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

Where have we seen this before? Look at that map, identify where Islamists are lashing out through violence and take your pick. It won't be long before the rest of the world stops appeasing and coddling and starts identifying the true issues behind Islamic extremism and the vast size of it's adherents. Maybe after enough of France has burned and the explosions begin, even the French will acknowledge that America had the right idea the whole time regarding a democratic and necessary social change in the Middle East where Muslims have been mostly "victimized" by the prosperities of the west. You can't fight terrorism without addressing it's roots.


"Social Inequality & Class Radicalism in France & Britain" by Duncan Gallie

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7&section=0&article=72731&d=5&m=11&y=2005

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

Islam in France - http://www.ict.org.il/articles/articledet.cfm?articleid=514

Mouloud Dahmani - http://posseincitatus.typepad.com/posse_incitatus/2005/11/crescent_of_fir.html

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1516006/posts

This is correct with regards to the muslim movement and uprisings in France. Also it is not liberal policy at all. The level of "assimilation" in France is completely different from that here in the US. The US is thousands of times more liberal with regards to immigration assimilation than that of France.
However this is not the reason for recent uprisings with regards to the "employment" law.
 
aquapub said:
ATTENTION ALL:

Since Steen and Jfuh don't have the attention spans/integrity to stop making phony requests for facts I have given them three or four times now,
Well, so far you have "forgotten" to give evidence that the unrest in France is evidence of the failure of liberal policies. Now, we have asked for evidence for this, and yet you lamely avoid the issue of actually proving your false, lame claim.

Economy growth in percentage…
France: 2.2%, Germany 1.1%, and so on (for Socialist countries)…

New numbers came out on the news just yesterday…

America has held strong once again at 5% growth (which is huge for an economy this size!), China, who is growing now that they are moving away from Capitalism, is at an astonishing 10%, similar with India…who has spent the last decade moving away from Socialism.
Really? China is now a conservative or rightwing country? it is still one of the most controlled countries in the world with the centralized Government running things. Oh, and just to confuse things, they are also rioting in China. :rofl

But when you have to define China and India as evidence AGAINST liberal policies, then it becomes clear how truly inane and ignorant your fabricated nonsense truly is. You are simply trolling and making a fool of conservative arguments.

Hong Kong is the least regulated (least Socialist) country on Earth.
They are under Chinese rule.

There are a million ways to prove that Socialism sucks, but you don’t need any of them.
Indeed, because the only question raised so far is about your nonsense claim of riots somehow being evidence of failure of liberal policies.

Amazing how much sophistry you engage in to avoid actually proving that riots are what defines such policy failure.

I guess that is why you try to inflict long, irrelevant posts on us without ever actually proving your original claim. LAME.
 
GySgt said:
[mod mode]

Unbelievable. This thread is about the French riots and their "liberal" policies. Barring anyone else's sentiments or views into what is and what is not "on topic," I will produce my own list.....
And it is utterly irrelevant to aquapub having been challenged to prove his claim that "riots" are proof of the failure of liberal policies. What you call aquapub trying to get back on topic is actually him trying to avoid providing evidence for his claim when challenged.

Your analysis sucks to high heavens.

But it is interesting that you need to push being a moderator to try to silence our insistence that aquapub actually prove his false claim. That is plain lame.

BTW, congratulations with becoming moderator. When did this occur?
 
GySgt said:
Liberal policies have been harmful in France. ....
When you have exerted moderator threats in a tread, is it wise to then participate as a discussion partner in that same tread. Isn't that a blatant set-up for bias and the appearance of censorship? I am disturbed by this and bothered by the feeling that we can not challenge you outright on your claims without being moderated against.
 
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