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"France, love it or leave it."

What's new? He's merely the voice of European sentiment. In Germany we see a judge referenceing the Qu'ran to smear a woman's religion in her face. In France we see a government move to outlaw any media that might have come from a private donater. Europe is threatening to strangle their own societies to satisfy their prejudices.

Not a single European state-not even the United Kingdom-has successfully integrated its Muslim minority into the mainstream society. While the UK has made the most progress, countries like France and Germany have time bombs in their midst, large, excluded Muslim populations the native majority regards as hopelessly inferior. If you wish to see bigotry alive and well (beyond the individual prejudices of other regions), visit continental Europe. Read about the inner- city of Marseilles or the Muslim suburbs of Paris. Read about Berlin-Kreuzberg. Read about the immigrant quarters of virtually any major city on the continent. The worst American slum offers more opportunity for self-improvement to its residents than any of Europe's soul-killing Muslim ghettos.

It wasn't a random choice by the 9/11 plotters that led them to do so much of their preperation in Europe. They knew that American Muslim communities wouldn't offer hospitalitiy to terrorists. But, Germany, France, Spain, and even Britian contain embittered Islamic minorities glad to see any part of the West get the punishment it "deserves." The American and European experiences with immigrants have been profoundly different. In continental Europe immigrants were never given a chance to become respected members of their host societies. And now they have given up trying. It is a prescription for tragedy.

But, Europe doesn't have a problem.....right? Not as long as they can dismiss their present condition and long history by focusing on America's old south. Focus all they want on America's exceptions and imperfections, but we aren't a ticking time bomb. And Europe has a long tradition of behaving quite irrationally in a crisis.
 
Not a single European state-not even the United Kingdom-has successfully integrated its Muslim minority into the mainstream society. While the UK has made the most progress, countries like France and Germany have time bombs in their midst, large, excluded Muslim populations the native majority regards as hopelessly inferior. If you wish to see bigotry alive and well (beyond the individual prejudices of other regions), visit continental Europe. Read about the inner- city of Marseilles or the Muslim suburbs of Paris. Read about Berlin-Kreuzberg. Read about the immigrant quarters of virtually any major city on the continent. The worst American slum offers more opportunity for self-improvement to its residents than any of Europe's soul-killing Muslim ghettos.
.

And therein lies the issue. What makes some states more sucessful at intergrating ethnic minoritys then others? Canada is very multicultural and has a large muslim population but realtively little strife between different cultures aside from the obvious issues with Quebec. What are they doing right that we,re not?
 
And therein lies the issue. What makes some states more sucessful at intergrating ethnic minoritys then others? Canada is very multicultural and has a large muslim population but realtively little strife between different cultures aside from the obvious issues with Quebec. What are they doing right that we,re not?

From what I have heard, immigrants in European countries are forced to live in certain areas to provide support. Apparently all it does is create strife.
 
From what I have heard, immigrants in European countries are forced to live in certain areas to provide support. Apparently all it does is create strife.

And I heard Americans eat babies and frak goats every Sunday... dont make it true.
 
And I heard Americans eat babies and frak goats every Sunday... dont make it true.
What, do you think I just made it up?

Unlike America, the rougher neighborhoods in France are more likely to be in the suburbs than in the inner cities. It's the result of decades of a deliberate government urban policy to concentrate immigrants and their families in well-defined districts away from city centers. In theory, the creation of immigrant communities would provide a support system. In practice, the urban housing policy has left many living in poorly maintained high-rises, similar to those that have largely been torn down in American inner cities.
NPR : Economic Despair, Racism Drive French Riots

Is the article lying to me? You tell me, I don't live in France.
 
Immigrants are not forced to live in certain areas. You make it sound that they have zero choice and are bundled off to concentration camps or something.

They can live where ever they want as long as they are paying for it.

However if the state pays for their accomodation, then yes certain restrictions are put in place, for the most part economic restrictions. And that most state housing are big grey highrises, then yes chances are those immigrants will end up there.

But dont tell me that state housing in the US is all peachy either and that a family living off the state in state housing can choose to live in a rich white area of the city and not in the state provided trailer or what not?

Fact is also, if given the choice, then most immigrants want to live near other immigrants. In Denmark we have for the last decade or so worked against the whole "ghetto" idea as it has cause massive problems over the years and tried to incourage immigrant families or refugees into non ghetto areas... but funny enough, quite a large percentage chose those ghettos over living in the country or another part of town, because "thier people" lived there. Other than forcing them to live elsewhere, what should we do? Its a no win situation.

But let me ask you this.. are there not Chinese, Korean, Black, Hispanic areas of most major cities in the US?
 
What's new? He's merely the voice of European sentiment. In Germany we see a judge referenceing the Qu'ran to smear a woman's religion in her face. In France we see a government move to outlaw any media that might have come from a private donater. Europe is threatening to strangle their own societies to satisfy their prejudices.

Not a single European state-not even the United Kingdom-has successfully integrated its Muslim minority into the mainstream society. While the UK has made the most progress, countries like France and Germany have time bombs in their midst, large, excluded Muslim populations the native majority regards as hopelessly inferior. If you wish to see bigotry alive and well (beyond the individual prejudices of other regions), visit continental Europe. Read about the inner- city of Marseilles or the Muslim suburbs of Paris. Read about Berlin-Kreuzberg. Read about the immigrant quarters of virtually any major city on the continent. The worst American slum offers more opportunity for self-improvement to its residents than any of Europe's soul-killing Muslim ghettos.

It wasn't a random choice by the 9/11 plotters that led them to do so much of their preperation in Europe. They knew that American Muslim communities wouldn't offer hospitalitiy to terrorists. But, Germany, France, Spain, and even Britian contain embittered Islamic minorities glad to see any part of the West get the punishment it "deserves." The American and European experiences with immigrants have been profoundly different. In continental Europe immigrants were never given a chance to become respected members of their host societies. And now they have given up trying. It is a prescription for tragedy.

But, Europe doesn't have a problem.....right? Not as long as they can dismiss their present condition and long history by focusing on America's old south. Focus all they want on America's exceptions and imperfections, but we aren't a ticking time bomb. And Europe has a long tradition of behaving quite irrationally in a crisis.

Yeah, especially since whole cities in Europe are slums like in the US
, and especially since Europe have tiny camping like houses lined up to accomodate poor black people. IN the US I dear say 60% of black people live in segregation from the rest of the US population. Where else than in the US so you see ghetto areas of 3m*3m "houses" lined up in squares just around every corner of a nice neighbourhood.

I lived in a nice area in Orlando when I was in the US, I was out talking a walk, when I decided to take a left turn instead of a right turn, guess what I saw? Km and km of tiny houses with 3-4 people living in them, mostly black people from what I could see. i was deadly afriraid to be shot in that area of course so I tried to hurry away, but I never seen such awful things before. And this was not far from mansions and nice apartment complexes in the other direction. What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights. Thats a nice life.
 
Immigrants are not forced to live in certain areas. You make it sound that they have zero choice and are bundled off to concentration camps or something.

They can live where ever they want as long as they are paying for it.
I'm making it sound like that? I just got it out of the article, don't kill the messenger.


But dont tell me that state housing in the US is all peachy either and that a family living off the state in state housing can choose to live in a rich white area of the city and not in the state provided trailer or what not?
They certainly aren't rioting are they?



But let me ask you this.. are there not Chinese, Korean, Black, Hispanic areas of most major cities in the US?
Yes, but they aren't rioting and burning cars.
 
In the US I dear say 60% of black people live in segregation from the rest of the US population.

Source?

I lived in a nice area in Orlando when I was in the US, I was out talking a walk, when I decided to take a left turn instead of a right turn, guess what I saw? Km and km of tiny houses with 3-4 people living in them, mostly black people from what I could see. i was deadly afriraid to be shot in that area of course so I tried to hurry away, but I never seen such awful things before.

:lol: This is hilarious. Thank god you managed to get away before the big black boogeyman got you.


And this was not far from mansions and nice apartment complexes in the other direction. What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights. Thats a nice life.

You're right, no hispanics have official residence in the US. None at all. And the Constitution certainly doesn't cover everyone here, regardless of citizenship.:roll:
 
Source?



:lol: This is hilarious. Thank god you managed to get away before the big black boogeyman got you.




You're right, no hispanics have official residence in the US. None at all. And the Constitution certainly doesn't cover everyone here, regardless of citizenship.:roll:

Again like every time you debate with me you have this annoying habit of counterclaiming what I claim.. I didnt say what you said.. Maybe you can start reading my post instead of skimming them and telling others what I am saying(in your opinion).. Thanks, I would appreciate it..

Please read my post before posting silly answers.
 
Again like every time you debate with me you have this annoying habit of counterclaiming what I claim.. I didnt say what you said.. Maybe you can start reading my post instead of skimming them and telling others what I am saying(in your opinion).. Thanks, I would appreciate it..

Please read my post before posting silly answers.

maximus zeebra said:
In the US I dear say 60% of black people live in segregation from the rest of the US population.

Source? Cut the bullshit and back up your claims.

What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights. Thats a nice life.

This is demonstrably false, for 2 reasons.

1) There are tens of millions of hispanics who are here legally and have official residence.
2) Even for those who are not here legally, they still have the rights guaranteed under the constitution.

Is this clearcut enough for you? I'd like two things - a source for your first claim, and a rebuttal (if you have one) to my second point. If you can't do that, then I'm not going to bother to respond to you and your games.
 
Source? Cut the bullshit and back up your claims.
I didnt say it was a definete fact, but judging by a lot of different factors, its very likely to be the reality. But of course, in US eyes, this could not be true, because they US is perfect and blacks are just like whites, well integrated with the rest.

This is demonstrably false, for 2 reasons.

1) There are tens of millions of hispanics who are here legally and have official residence.
2) Even for those who are not here legally, they still have the rights guaranteed under the constitution.

Is this clearcut enough for you? I'd like two things - a source for your first claim, and a rebuttal (if you have one) to my second point. If you can't do that, then I'm not going to bother to respond to you and your games.

1. source? i assume it to be true, but there are also 10s of millions of hispanics who are not legal. I never said there were no legal hispanics in the US.. You better start reading what I am actually saying. Do I have to spoonfeed you everything?
Where did I claim there was no legal hispanics in the US?
2. source? i assume this to be untrue, until you prove me that mexicans are protected under the US constitution. How can they have any legal protection when they arent even oficially in the US? If your claim is true, then you have to prove that every mexican is protected and have the rights under the US consitution. Because before they are official residents of the US mexicans are still living in mexico even if they are in the US.
 
I didnt say it was a definete fact, but judging by a lot of different factors, its very likely to be the reality. But of course, in US eyes, this could not be true, because they US is perfect and blacks are just like whites, well integrated with the rest.

:lol: Do you actually think that this is considered a quality debate tactic?

"I don't actually have any evidence for this, but its very likely to be the case because I think so."

Hilarious.

1. source? i assume it to be true, but there are also 10s of millions of hispanics who are not legal. I never said there were no legal hispanics in the US.. You better start reading what I am actually saying. Do I have to spoonfeed you everything?
Where did I claim there was no legal hispanics in the US?

What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights.

Read your own statement. Look at what you said, and recognize how false it is. You said that "the new US population, the hispanics" "never have official residence or any lawful rights."

Don't pretend like you didn't say what you said - its there in writing.



2. source? i assume this to be untrue, until you prove me that mexicans are protected under the US constitution. How can they have any legal protection when they arent even oficially in the US? If your claim is true, then you have to prove that every mexican is protected and have the rights under the US consitution. Because before they are official residents of the US mexicans are still living in mexico even if they are in the US.

Again, this is where your complete and utter ignorance of the US Constitution comes into play. Here's a con law class for you, free of charge.

Once someone is within the territorial boundaries of the United States, they are entitled to constitutional protections regardless of whether they're US citizens or not.

Fourteenth Amendment:
Nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Anyone within the jurisdiction of the US borders is entitled to equal protection under the law.

It's not the fact that you didn't know this that's a big deal (some Americans don't either). It's the fact that you act like you do, when in reality you're oblivious.
 
:lol: Do you actually think that this is considered a quality debate tactic?

"I don't actually have any evidence for this, but its very likely to be the case because I think so."

Hilarious.

thats not what I said.. Ridicule all that you dont understand as much as you want. I knew you would not believe me.. its not because I said so, I could list a lot of reasons, but this would be a completely different debate. New thread perhaps.


Read your own statement. Look at what you said, and recognize how false it is. You said that "the new US population, the hispanics" "never have official residence or any lawful rights."

Don't pretend like you didn't say what you said - its there in writing.

me said:
What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights.



Where in that statement does it say ALL hispanics NEVER have official residence?

Now, where are those sources that I asked you for for?



Again, this is where your complete and utter ignorance of the US Constitution comes into play. Here's a con law class for you, free of charge.

Once someone is within the territorial boundaries of the United States, they are entitled to constitutional protections regardless of whether they're US citizens or not.

Fourteenth Amendment:

Anyone within the jurisdiction of the US borders is entitled to equal protection under the law.

It's not the fact that you didn't know this that's a big deal (some Americans don't either). It's the fact that you act like you do, when in reality you're oblivious.

Yea, I didnt know that.. But the constitution is not the same as residential and full legal rights anyways.
 
thats not what I said.. Ridicule all that you dont understand as much as you want. I knew you would not believe me.. its not because I said so, I could list a lot of reasons, but this would be a completely different debate. New thread perhaps.

I ridicule because you made a prima facie false claim and refuse to either cite evidence to back it up or admit that its ridiculous.

Where in that statement does it say ALL hispanics NEVER have official residence?

.....I can't tell if you're being serious here. Did you read the last post? Again, here's what you said:

What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights.

Do you see what is being said yet? I'm willing to chalk this one up to difficulties in translation, but in english, your statement is plainly meant to say that hispanics never have official resident or any lawful rights. That's obviously false.

Now, where are those sources that I asked you for for?

Sources for what? That some hispanics have legal rights? I don't even understand what you're asking here.


Yea, I didnt know that.. But the constitution is not the same as residential and full legal rights anyways.

I don't know what you mean by "residential and full legal rights."

The only rights that Americans have are granted by the constitution. The 14th Amendment guarantees all people within US jurisdiction equal protection under all law. So yes, whether or not someone is legal, they have full legal rights.
 
I ridicule because you made a prima facie false claim and refuse to either cite evidence to back it up or admit that its ridiculous.



.....I can't tell if you're being serious here. Did you read the last post? Again, here's what you said:



Do you see what is being said yet? I'm willing to chalk this one up to difficulties in translation, but in english, your statement is plainly meant to say that hispanics never have official resident or any lawful rights. That's obviously false.



Sources for what? That some hispanics have legal rights? I don't even understand what you're asking here.




I don't know what you mean by "residential and full legal rights."

The only rights that Americans have are granted by the constitution. The 14th Amendment guarantees all people within US jurisdiction equal protection under all law. So yes, whether or not someone is legal, they have full legal rights.

Is it my problem that you only see 1 word in a complete sentance?
I never claimed that ALL hispanics were in the US illegally and that no hispanics has legal US residence. However, this is what you are trying to force on me now... I didnt say that, ever. I am just syaing that a large number of hispanics are in the US without legal protection.

This all started when you talked about European immigration and integration being so bad, overlooking completely the fact that US integration is equally bad or even worse.
 
Is it my problem that you only see 1 word in a complete sentance?
I never claimed that ALL hispanics were in the US illegally and that no hispanics has legal US residence. However, this is what you are trying to force on me now... I didnt say that, ever.

No, but its your problem that you write poorly. If you want to communicate effectively, you need to understand that the way that sentence is composed, you're directly making a claim about all hispanics.

I am just syaing that a large number of hispanics are in the US without legal protection.

For the third time, this is not true. Did you read any of the previous posts? Equal protection of the law, etc etc.

This all started when you talked about European immigration and integration being so bad, overlooking completely the fact that US integration is equally bad or even worse.

.....er, when did I say this?
 
No, but its your problem that you write poorly. If you want to communicate effectively, you need to understand that the way that sentence is composed, you're directly making a claim about all hispanics.



For the third time, this is not true. Did you read any of the previous posts? Equal protection of the law, etc etc.



.....er, when did I say this?

Constitutiopnal rights is not the same as resident or citizens rights.

A basic example. They dont have the right to work. They have the right to be kicked out of the US.
 
Yeah, especially since whole cities in Europe are slums like in the US
, and especially since Europe have tiny camping like houses lined up to accomodate poor black people. IN the US I dear say 60% of black people live in segregation from the rest of the US population. Where else than in the US so you see ghetto areas of 3m*3m "houses" lined up in squares just around every corner of a nice neighbourhood.

I lived in a nice area in Orlando when I was in the US, I was out talking a walk, when I decided to take a left turn instead of a right turn, guess what I saw? Km and km of tiny houses with 3-4 people living in them, mostly black people from what I could see. i was deadly afriraid to be shot in that area of course so I tried to hurry away, but I never seen such awful things before. And this was not far from mansions and nice apartment complexes in the other direction. What about the new US population, the hispanics? They are integrated well into the US society, they can find jobs as strawberry and potato pickers and live in the US but never have official residence or any lawful rights. Thats a nice life.

What a joke. Still seeking that American ant hill to exaggerate to balance out your issues, huh? And I see from your other posts here, that you continue to employ lies and deceit.

Now we have German soldiers pretending to kill American blacks. The difference between the racism in America and Europe is that our racism is an individual phenomenon. Yours is an institutional one. I have repeatedly told you this (while you remain determined to be blind and deaf). When you have judges throwing scriptures of the Qu'ran into an abused Muslim woman's face, military leaders instructing their soldiers to pretend they are slaughtering American blacks, and considering your long history of minority abuse, you have a very special problem. You have entire populations that are considered outsiders by even your outspoken politicians with a vast number of citizens supporting his opinions. And, of course, we haven't seen the last of any Muslim French riots.

I'm afraid our "strawberry and potato" pickers aren't the problem you so desire them to be. Our country is full of immigrants. We are the land of opportunity and our racial friction is largely insignificant, considering our long history of being conditioned to incoming immigrants. Yours is the land of preservation and outsiders know it.

You are a ticking time bomb and you refuse to even acknowledge it. Instead you focus on ways to beat America at something with this silly mission of competition just to prove yourself.
 
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What a joke. Still seeking that American ant hill to exaggerate to balance out your issues, huh? And I see from your other posts here, that you continue to employ lies and deceit.

Of course it is deceit. Its something negative about the US it must be lies and deceit, because it doesnt fit along with the propaganda fed to you through American media.

GySgt said:
Now we have German so]diers pretending to kill American blacks. The difference between the racism in America and Europe is that our racism is an individual phenomenon. Yours is an institutional one. I have repeatedly told you this (while you remain determined to be blind and deaf). When you have judges throwing scriptures of the Qu'ran into an abused Muslim woman's face, military leaders instructing their soldiers to pretend they are slaughtering American blacks, and considering your long history of minority abuse, you have a very special problem. You have entire populations that are considered outsiders by even your outspoken politicians with a vast number of citizens supporting his opinions. And, of course, we haven't seen the last of any Muslim French riots.

Of course, racism is everywhere, and I cannot think of anywhere else than in the US that its more visible in the average man on the street, especially in the south. There is still a Ku Klux Clan MENTALITY in the US, although the practice is not there anymore. Talk to the average man in the US and then the average man in the US, then you will see that racism is more visible and breed stronger hatred in the US than in Europe.

Our minosiry abuse in Europe? What about American slavery followed by segregation of blacks, even after the seciond world war "niggers" in the US were sitting in the back of the busses, and eating in different sections of the restaurants or cafes if not in a black cafe. Even now, the blacks largely live in black neighbourhoods.

GySgt said:
I'm afraid our "strawberry and potato" pickers aren't the problem you so desire them to be. Our country is full of immigrants. We are the land of opportunity and our racial friction is largely insignificant, considering our long history of being conditioned to incoming immigrants. Yours is the land of preservation and outsiders know it.

You are a ticking time bomb and you refuse to even acknowledge it. Instead you focus on ways to beat America at something with this silly mission of competition just to prove yourself.


:2funny:

Land of opportunity, ahahahaah. you still watch yourself as such while the rest of the world looks at you as the land of clowns. Yeah, you did embrace the black people very well, you gave them jobs against a place to live, its called slavery.

Now you have the new era of slaves, the south Americans pouring over your borders, whom dont have many rights, and are doing all the bad work. Anyways thats happening in Europe as well though, we also leave the dirt jobs to others.

Well, id say European competition is over, now its the US who have to keep uup with Europe as the world moves towards a new era, and move humanity with it. Dont you see? The world see you as clowns, the US have no credibility, the only thing the US have left is a big military, but hey, thats not going to be enough.

US politics is nothing but a parody, its ridicuous, everyone except people in the US see that.
 
Of course, racism is everywhere, and I cannot think of anywhere else than in the US that its more visible in the average man on the street
Indeed, you Euros are sooooo much more progressive. Your football games where the stands are filled with Neo-Nazis who make monkey sounds and throw banannas on the field whenever a black athlete touches the ball come to my mind.
 
Constitutiopnal rights is not the same as resident or citizens rights.

A basic example. They dont have the right to work. They have the right to be kicked out of the US.

There's no such thing as "the right to work." Everyone on US soil, regardless of national origin, is entitled to equal protection under the law. That simple.
 
There's no such thing as "the right to work." Everyone on US soil, regardless of national origin, is entitled to equal protection under the law. That simple.

There is such a thing as work permit. There is such a thing as legal and illegal alien. Illegal ones can be "shipped out" of the country, and they are, every day, every hour.
 
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