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France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leaders

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

When that cultural norm is a historical symbol for oppression of her gender then I say **** respecting it.
Who cares, hot air.

If people want to wear a headscarf, that's fine, but the idea of mandating someone to wear one harkens back to it's oppressive roots that I am glad Le Pen stood up to.
She is a Catholic, a French Catholic. She of all people understands religious practice/etiquette.

And I'm no fan of Le Pen.
Who cares.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

That is a lie, there are expectations of conduct and practice, yer playing semantic games.
No, there isn't. Approach a Catholic mass as you see fit. You want to sit quietly then sit quietly, there is no card check in the communion line, no secret handshake, no nothing. You want to join in then join in. Nobody is telling you you have to do anything.

This is just more of the same idiocy as above where an argument is made that visitors can act any way they want in any setting.
LOL. That isn't the argument I made. You were the one who tried to link Islamic religious requirements with Catholic requirements. My pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Catholics in general or Catholic Mass in particular is not an argument that anyone can do anything they want anywhere. I am no more arguing that than I expect you would argue that a gay couple should behave themselves in a Christian Bakery. :2razz:
 

Nilly

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Who cares, hot air.

She is a Catholic, a French Catholic. She of all people understands religious practice/etiquette.

Who cares.
This isn't just a religious practice though. This is a religious practice that is rooted in misogyny.

I don't know catholic customs, but I do know that when visiting a Hindu temple one should take off their shoes as a sign of respect. I would hope that if Le Pen visited a Hindu temple she would take her shoes off as a sign of respect, and that's because that tradition is not one that is rooted in oppression.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

That is a lie, there are expectations of conduct and practice, yer playing semantic games.



This is just more of the same idiocy as above where an argument is made that visitors can act any way they want in any setting.
I can walk into a Catholic mass and stand in the back with my hands in my pockets, or I can sit in the pews and not do anything at all.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

No, there isn't. Approach a Catholic mass as you see fit. You want to sit quietly then sit quietly, there is no card check in the communion line, no secret handshake, no nothing. You want to join in then join in. Nobody is telling you you have to do anything.
Sure, like during communion, if yer not Baptized and have not gone to Confession, you can go up to the Priest and ask for some extra Hosts and wine to go.



LOL. That isn't the argument I made. You were the one who tried to link Islamic religious requirements with Catholic requirements.
Another lie, you demand to know what expectations there are on a visitor to a religious setting, since that WAS THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD.
My pointing out that you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to Catholics in general or Catholic Mass in particular is not an argument that anyone can do anything they want anywhere.
Again, the context is conduct in a religious setting by a visitor, you just can't handle context.
I am no more arguing that than I expect you would argue that a gay couple should behave themselves in a Christian Bakery. :2razz:
Oh, I see what you did there..you want to conflate open to the public businesses.....with appropriate conduct in a religious setting.

Weird.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

I can walk into a Catholic mass and stand in the back with my hands in my pockets, or I can sit in the pews and not do anything at all.
You mean you are acting in a respectful manner in a religious setting.

See, you figured that out all by yerself!
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

who cares what the muslim clerics think?

they need france more than france needs them
 

jmotivator

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Sure, like during communion, if yer not Baptized and have not gone to Confession, you can go up to the Priest and ask for some extra Hosts and wine to go.
Go ahead, feel free. Like I said, we don't card check in the communion line. You can also ask for extra hosts and wine to go if you want, but then the Priest is free to not comply with your own religious requirement that you wish to place on him. See how religious freedom works? Neat, huh? From your comments I see this may be a new concept to you so I will give you time to let it soak in.


Another lie, you demand to know what expectations there are on a visitor to a religious setting, since that WAS THE CONTEXT OF THIS THREAD. Again, the context is conduct in a religious setting by a visitor, you just can't handle context.
Like I said, I am referring to your claims of an equivalence between Islamic and Catholic requirements which is a bogus claim by you. You then went into foot stompy mode and claimed that my explanation to you that your imagined demands by Catholics is, well, imaginary and so you then claim that my correction of your erroneous claim of Catholic demands is me arguing that anyone can do anything in any setting. I'm not arguingthat at all, I am simply arguing that you are wrong about Catholic demands on non-Catholics.

Oh, I see what you did there..you want to conflate open to the public businesses.....with appropriate conduct in a religious setting
And, again, no. I am a believer in religious rights of all people. I support the gay couple's right to protest being refused a contract to bake a cake by a Christian baker AND I support the Christian baker's right to not be required to contribute to a gay wedding.

Like I said, I realize that religious freedom is a new concept to you so I will give you time to adsorb the nuance.

I can only imagine how weird it all must look to someone like you who is so bereft of the basic mental framework necessary to process the concept of religious liberty.
 
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Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

This isn't just a religious practice though. This is a religious practice that is rooted in misogyny.
NEWS FLASH!!!

Nearly all religions are paternalistic.

Hurr Durr.

I don't know catholic customs, but I do know that when visiting a Hindu temple one should take off their shoes as a sign of respect. I would hope that if Le Pen visited a Hindu temple she would take her shoes off as a sign of respect, and that's because that tradition is not one that is rooted in oppression.
First off, Hinduism has many paternalistic/oppressive practices, and I find it weird that you would expect Le Pen to observe religious etiquette in a Hindu setting, but not in a Muslim setting.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

I don't say this very often, because I'm certainly no fan of what that woman and her party represent, but good for her on this one. It would have been the height of hypocrisy for her to actually ever wear a veil given her very vocal disapproval of Islam and all its customs. I don't doubt that she used it to her advantage, seeing as she was told in advance that she would be required to wear a veil to meet with the Mufti. Still, she's consistent and stood up for her beliefs and that's fine by me.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Give it up to AL-washington post, siding with the mysoginisy Muslim leaders... Reading this article it's all about how it was a "stunt", and you can see the sneering this writer had for le penn.

Le Penn stands up for womans rights in the face of islamic-fascism, and the washington post cant be more upset about it.... ALoha snack bar!
[/FONT][/COLOR]
Good for her. She is not a Muslim or part of any religion that requires women to wear a head scarf so I see no reason for her to wear a head scarf. Plus I doubt the muslims would be accommodating if they roles were reversed.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Go ahead, feel free. Like I said, we don't card check in the communion line. You can also ask for extra hosts and wine to go if you want, but then the Priest is free to not comply with your own religious requirement that you wish to place on him. See how religious freedom works? Neat, huh? From your comments I see this may be a new concept to you so I will give you time to let it soak in.
This is complete BS, anyone who grew up in a Catholic family would find your flippant comments laughable....and would end up with severely swollen knuckles courtesy of the Sisters...and worse. Your argument is absurd.




Like I said, I am referring to your claims of an equivalence between Islamic and Catholic requirements which is a bogus claim by you.
Anyone can see you have no standing, you are arguing there is no expected etiquette of visitors.
You then went into foot stompy mode and claimed that my explanation to you that your imagined demands by Catholics is, well, imaginary and so you then claim that my correction of your erroneous claim of Catholic demands is me arguing that anyone can do anything in any setting. I'm not arguingthat at all,
You just responded "Feel free" to do what you want at a Mass. It is an absurd argument.
I am simply arguing that you are wrong about Catholic demands on non-Catholics.
That is not a counter argument. When you have an argument, let me know.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

That's the topic of the thread. So you're saying you were just here to troll about completely unrelated partisan nonsense?
Oh, this is a thread about head scarves? I thought is was about "France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with religious leaders"?

So, let's stay on topic then. Where can I get the best deal on a head scarf? Do they come in anything nice and bright, like a fluorescent orange? Remember, keep it on topic!
 
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Nilly

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

NEWS FLASH!!!

Nearly all religions are paternalistic.

Hurr Durr.

First off, Hinduism has many paternalistic/oppressive practices, and I find it weird that you would expect Le Pen to observe religious etiquette in a Hindu setting, but not in a Muslim setting.
Yes, basically all religions are paternalistic, but that doesn't mean all of their traditions are.

I'm all for respecting a religious tradition, excepting when that specific tradition specifically targets one group.

Hinduism does has many misogynistic practices (India is one of the most misogynistic countries in the world!) - so do most other religions, and I would expect most female leaders, Le Pen, Merkel, May, to push back from being mandated to follow such practices, whilst respecting the ones that are not misogynistic.

By doing so they show that such oppressive practices are not acceptable in todays' world, and pays tribute to all the women who have been subjugated by religion.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

This is complete BS, anyone who grew up in a Catholic family would find your flippant comments laughable....and would end up with severely swollen knuckles courtesy of the Sisters...and worse. Your argument is absurd.
It's not BS. I grew up in a Catholic family, raised catholic, and I am still Catholic and your understanding of Catholicism is limited. Your argument is further confounded by the fact that your own presented evidence doesn't backup your characterization of Catholics or Catholic mass.

Anyone can see you have no standing, you are arguing there is no expected etiquette of visitors.
And there isn't. Your own provided evidence proves my point. I do note, however, that you have softened your position from a requirement to "expected". I appreciate that you are coming around to the truth but you are still wrong.

You just responded "Feel free" to do what you want at a Mass. It is an absurd argument.
Because you ARE free to do what you want. Your example of asking the priest for extra "hosts and wine to go" infringes on HIS freedom, however. I see you are still struggling with that concept so I will remain patient.

That is not a counter argument. When you have an argument, let me know.
It is the only argument. You are simply wrong in your characterizations and ill equipped to understand the concept of religious freedom.

I don't expect anyone to leave their religious freedoms at the door simply because they are visiting an oppressive theocracy. Those theocracies, like you, find religious freedom to be a difficult concept.
 
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Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Yes, basically all religions are paternalistic, but that doesn't mean all of their traditions are.

I'm all for respecting a religious tradition, excepting when that specific tradition specifically targets one group.

Hinduism does has many misogynistic practices (India is one of the most misogynistic countries in the world!) - so do most other religions, and I would expect most female leaders, Le Pen, Merkel, May, to push back from being mandated to follow such practices, whilst respecting the ones that are not misogynistic.

By doing so they show that such oppressive practices are not acceptable in todays' world, and pays tribute to all the women who have been subjugated by religion.
FFS...the wearing of a head covering, A SCARF, in a religious setting, is practiced within many Abrahamic and Judaic sects, it is most often associated with submission and obedience to their God. I will bet dollar to doughnuts Le Penn practiced this in her Church. This was nothing more than, again, a setup for her Islamaphobe minions.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

..nn stands up for womans rights in the face of islamic-fascism, and the washington post cant be more upset about it.... ALoha snack bar!

[/FONT ][/COLOR ]
For those of us Familiar with the modern history Europe and Islam, and I'm sure Le Pen and her fans Are..
This echoes the famous interview of the Ayatollah Khomeini by the Great Italian journalist, Oriana Fallaci, where she throw off her head scarf and told him to 'get lost'.

Her interview with Ayatollah Komeini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriana_Fallaci#1970s

During her 1979 interview with Ayatollah Khomeini, she addressed him as a "Tyrant" and managed to Unveil herself from the chador:

OF: I still have to ask you a lot of things. About the "chador", for example, which I was obliged to wear to come and interview you, and which you impose on Iranian women.... Iam not only referring to the dress but to what it represents, I mean the Apartheid Iranian women have been forced into after the revolution.
They cannot study at the university with men, they cannot work with men, they cannot swim in the sea or in a swimming-pool with men. They have to do everything separately, wearing their "chador." By the way, how can you Swim wearing a "chador"?

AK: None of this concerns you, our customs do not concern you. If you don't like the Islamic dress you are not obliged to wear it, since it is for young women and respectable ladies.

OF: This is very kind of you, Imam, since you tell me that, I'm going to immediately rid myself of this Stupid Medieval Rag. There!.


Bravo Oriana.
See my/HER prophetic string here.
3- 4-2010
Fallaci: "This is what I write about Europe..
and encore:
https://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/252220-fallaci-write-europe-ii.html
 
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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

The fascist goes to Lebanon to meet religious leaders, knowing their practices require head covering...and she refuses.

It was a publicity move, red meat for her Islamophobe minions.
Do they take them off when they come here? We don't wear them.
 

Nilly

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

FFS...the wearing of a head covering, A SCARF, in a religious setting, is practiced within many Abrahamic and Judaic sects, it is most often associated with submission and obedience to their God. I will bet dollar to doughnuts Le Penn practiced this in her Church. This was nothing more than, again, a setup for her Islamaphobe minions.
Don't care what religions do it. As long as it's a misogynistic tradition I'll applaud the rejection of it.

If she doesn't do it in Church then she's a hypocrite, but we all already knew that.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

It's not BS. I grew up in a Catholic family, raised catholic, and I am still Catholic and your understanding of Catholicism is limited. Your argument is further confounded by the fact that your own presented evidence doesn't backup your characterization of Catholics or Catholic mass.
mischaracterizing the argument again, it was presented to show etiquette by VISITORS, meeting YOUR demand.



And there isn't. Your own evidence provided evidence proves my point. I do note, however that you have softened your position from a requirement to "expected". I appreciate that you are coming around to the truth but you are still wrong.
Again, a lie, "requirement" was your injection in #68.



Because you ARE free to do what you want. Your example of asking the priest for extra "hosts and wine to go" infringes on HIS freedom, however. I see you are still struggling with that concept so I will remain patient.
Uh, the argument is what is expected, what your conduct should be, and now you are explaining how the misconduct NEGATIVELY affects the environment and participants.....you just made my point.

Derp



It is the only argument.
It is not an argument, negation is not argument.
You are simply wrong in your characterizations and ill equipped to understand the concept of religious freedom.
The topic is not religious freedom (which is SO ironic when it comes to LePen), it is respectful conduct in a religious setting.
I don't expect anyone to leave their religious freedoms at the door simply because they are visiting an oppressive theocracy.
And you further attempt to change the topic.
Those theocracies, like you, find religious freedom to be a difficult concept.
Any time a poster spins off-topic, I always view it as a win. Thanks, take care.
 

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

THEIR practices, not HERS. The left just can resist forcing people to do things against their will, even women, who they supposedly support. As we can see, that's only in the few days leading up to an election, otherwise, forget it.
Exactly. Imagine the outrage if somebody in France (or anywhere else) told visiting Muslims that they would be required to show up in proper French (or whatever) business dress for the meeting instead of the traditional Arab Thobe and Hijab. Why should a visiting diplomat or other official be required to don THEIR 'proper attire'?

I guess based on photos I've seen, Hillary and other prominent woman--Laura Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Diana Sawyer, Michelle Obama et al--dutifully don the jihab in most Muslim terroritory. I am not sure they do Muslim women any favors when they do that.

According to the Qu'ran, women must wear proper Islamic attire to identify them as those who cannot be raped as opposed to infidels.

So what does it say when a western non-Islamic woman wears one? To the woman it probably does means respect of the expectations of others. And I can understand that. But it still bothers me. I'll figure out why if I keep thinking about it maybe.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Do they take them off when they come here? We don't wear them.
Whut? All sorts of religious followers in the US wear various forms of head coverings in their ceremonies.

Good grief....seriously?
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

I guess based on photos I've seen, Hillary and other prominent woman--Laura Bush, Nancy Pelosi, Diana Sawyer, Michelle Obama et al--dutifully don the jihab in most Muslim terroritory. I am not sure they do Muslim women any favors when they do that.
They did it out of respect for the setting.
 
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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

Give it up to AL-washington post, siding with the mysoginisy Muslim leaders... Reading this article it's all about how it was a "stunt", and you can see the sneering this writer had for le penn.

Le Penn stands up for womans rights in the face of islamic-fascism, and the washington post cant be more upset about it.... ALoha snack bar!



[/FONT][/COLOR]
It may have already been noted in the thread elsewhere, but Le Pen also made the point that when Michelle Obama accompanied President Obama to Saudi Arabia, she also did not wear a head scarf while in a country where such attire is mandated and the media, largely left wing, cheered her for standing up for women's rights and freedoms in an oppressive society.

As an exercise in the double standard of left wing media, this is a master class.
 

Gimmesometruth

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Re: France’s Marine Le Pen refused to wear a headscarf to meet with.. religious leade

It may have already been noted in the thread elsewhere, but Le Pen also made the point that when Michelle Obama accompanied President Obama to Saudi Arabia, she also did not wear a head scarf while in a country where such attire is mandated and the media, largely left wing, cheered her for standing up for women's rights and freedoms in an oppressive society.

As an exercise in the double standard of left wing media, this is a master class.
Women, foreign and local, must wear an abaya (a few get away with long coats) in public places. Muslim—often equated with Saudi—women are said to have to wear a headscarf; foreigners needn’t.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/01/economist-explains-20
 
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