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Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'[W:45:107]

Kal'Stang

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Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

One factory has "reduced employee strength from 110,000 to 50,000 thanks to the introduction of robots", a government official told the South China Morning Post.

Xu Yulian, head of publicity for the Kunshan region, added: "More companies are likely to follow suit."

I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'



I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?
Let me guess...

There still won't be a massive reduction in the cost of iphones right? There never is. The companies cut costs but the prices never go down. When will people learn?
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'



I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

Get some training in robotics repair.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

I've been saying for quite some time that these advancements in technology are the primary driver of the wage gap as well. Better technology=more produced/hr=more profit/hr. Who gets that profit? The person who decides who gets that profit, of course! After all, they're the ones who generally also risked the investment and invested in R&D. They bought the right to decide.

And so the rich get richer while the poor get, relatively, poorer.

I'm not suggesting a solution so I'm not really answering your question. But I believe this is a large culprit of the current economic challenges.

Over the last couple of years, this realization has, however, lessened my empathy for the libertarian movement. Something does need to be done.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

BTW, this isn't the first time this has happened by the same company.

Nike Unloads Contract Factory Workers, Showing How Automation Is Costing Jobs Of Vulnerable Emerging Market Laborers

As the 106,000 contract workers who lost their Nike jobs in the past year can attest, apparel manufacturers have decided that it’s cheaper to invest in technology than to hire even the world’s lowest-paid workers.

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In addition to cutting contracts for more than 100,000 workers, Nike Inc. (NYSE:NKE), the world’s largest sportswear maker, weeded out 125 less-efficient factories. And the company increased profits by 16 percent in the last fiscal year.

When a company can increase its profits, why not replace workers with automation?
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Let me guess...

There still won't be a massive reduction in the cost of iphones right? There never is. The companies cut costs but the prices never go down. When will people learn?

Apple is a luxury brand, why would they reduce prices?
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Get some training in robotics repair.

Ok, so now we have 60,000 people that are now trained in robotics repair...how many of those 60,000 are going to be working at this company that just fired those 60,000?

And that's assuming that they don't have two robots that can repair each other because the odds of both of them breaking down at the same time is virtually nil.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

I've been saying for quite some time that these advancements in technology are the primary driver of the wage gap as well. Better technology=more produced/hr=more profit/hr. Who gets that profit? The person who decides who gets that profit, of course! After all, they're the ones who generally also risked the investment and invested in R&D. They bought the right to decide.

And so the rich get richer while the poor get, relatively, poorer.

I'm not suggesting a solution so I'm not really answering your question. But I believe this is a large culprit of the current economic challenges.

Over the last couple of years, this realization has, however, lessened my empathy for the libertarian movement. Something does need to be done.

I agree. There are a multitude of reasons that the wage gap has been steadily increasing. This is most definitely one of them.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

If the cost of labor is less than the cost of robotics, owners will employ more laborers. If the cost of robotics is less than the cost of labor, owners will employ more robotics. This is evident in our traditional economy.

If our economy is more socialist or government driven, higher wages and benefits will be given with the highest tax rates possible. This is also evident.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Adidas also recently moved back to Germany, but this time with robots.

I have to believe that the obvious solution is the basic income. Everyone will be given a pay check regardless of whether they are employed. Especially once AI becomes a lot more prominent, the necessity for humans to perform jobs will become increasingly unnecessary. As it currently stands, robots are projected replace about five million jobs by 2020 and roughly half of all of the currently existing jobs can be replaced by automation within the next few decades.

As Stephen Hawking notes, the greatest threat to humanity is not AI, but wealth inequality.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Apple is a luxury brand, why would they reduce prices?

Because the argument to justify outsourcing is that the prices will go down. This has never happened. The argument is that automation will allow the prices to go down. This has also never happened. The costs to produce the items may be going down but the savings aren't being passed onto the consumers. It's all free trade lies and people keep believing it.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

If the cost of labor is less than the cost of robotics, owners will employ more laborers. If the cost of robotics is less than the cost of labor, owners will employ more robotics. This is evident in our traditional economy.

If our economy is more socialist or government driven, higher wages and benefits will be given with the highest tax rates possible. This is also evident.

I'll bring your attention to part of the article that had this to say...

"It's cheaper to buy a $35,000 robotic arm than it is to hire an employee who is inefficient, making $15 an hour bagging French fries," he said.

Now, what that doesn't say is that that robotic arm can do the work of 3 people. Morning shift, evening shift, graveyard. Even paying the federal minimum wage of $7.25/hr it will still be cheaper to buy that $35,000 robotic arm in just ONE year. Paying those 3 people would cost $41,760. The second year that company will no longer be paying off that robotic arm and all but a small percentage will be purely profit because you'll no longer be paying any workers. And that small percentage being what it costs to hire a robotics repairman.

Note that above is just talking about the price of the robotic arm vs hiring an employee. It does not take into account other business expenses that would be there regardless if a person was hired or a robotic arm.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Because the argument to justify outsourcing is that the prices will go down. This has never happened. The argument is that automation will allow the prices to go down. This has also never happened. The costs to produce the items may be going down but the savings aren't being passed onto the consumers. It's all free trade lies and people keep believing it.

Well Apple's high price point is part of it's appeal and selling point. They will never reduce prices because it is a luxury brand. Samsung on the other hand will probably make their phones cheaper.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

In some ways this is great news. If China is replacing cheap labor with automation there is little reason why we couldn't bring that manufacturing back to the US. While we wouldn't be bringing back the unskilled labor we'd still be bringing work back to the US.

But, as I have said here before, it was easy to see this coming for decades. Fast food should have changed a long time ago. Back when I was making $4.00/hour at Arby's I used to warn my fellow cashiers that we only had a job because the management hadn't figured out that they could just turn the cash register around to face to customer.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

In some ways this is great news. If China is replacing cheap labor with automation there is little reason why we couldn't bring that manufacturing back to the US. While we wouldn't be bringing back the unskilled labor we'd still be bringing work back to the US.

But, as I have said here before, it was easy to see this coming for decades. Fast food should have changed a long time ago. Back when I was making $4.00/hour at Arby's I used to warn my fellow cashiers that we only had a job because the management hadn't figured out that they could just turn the cash register around to face to customer.

You would pretty much be only bring back all the indirect labour which is a rather small pool of jobs. Maybe a manager and a few administrative clerks.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

You would pretty much be only bring back all the indirect labour which is a rather small pool of jobs. Maybe a manager and a few administrative clerks.

No, I think you underestimate the labor necessary to keep a production line running even without the line workers.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'



I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

Where would it stop? Look how many semi trailers you can put on a train. A couple of guys in the locomotive can replace hundreds of truck drivers. Or Home Depot with the self check out lines. One employee instead of four. trash trucks even have a claw to grab and dump the cans. When I was a kid the was a driver and two guys riding on the dumpster. My mother was a switchboard operator when she was young. That's been replaced.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'



I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

Adapt.

That's all we can do. Just as England transformed its economy from manufacturing during the Industrial Revolution to today's center of finance and service, so we will do - must do - as our world's economy becomes more automated. Instead of manufacturing, people will have to find their livelihoods in finance or service.

And this isn't to say that manufacturing jobs will go away anytime soon. Think about all the products we have - particularly the ones that are heavy on artistic design - that would be next-to-impossible for today's technology to reproduce through automation. Sure, that can - and very well might - be done as the decades go by...but we humans are pretty doggone good at adaptation - we'll find some other way to make money, I'm sure.
 
Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

I've been saying for quite some time that these advancements in technology are the primary driver of the wage gap as well. Better technology=more produced/hr=more profit/hr. Who gets that profit? The person who decides who gets that profit, of course! After all, they're the ones who generally also risked the investment and invested in R&D. They bought the right to decide.

And so the rich get richer while the poor get, relatively, poorer.

I'm not suggesting a solution so I'm not really answering your question. But I believe this is a large culprit of the current economic challenges.

Over the last couple of years, this realization has, however, lessened my empathy for the libertarian movement. Something does need to be done.

Thank you for providing a substantive, yet troubling reply. It observes the changes, gives rationale credit to those driving the changes, but then again turns back and asks if this is acceptable to social morality.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

As was said earlier, basic income.

Once a robot has paid itself of, and can produce enough to pay for its own upkeep, you essentially have a 'limitless' supply of productivity, productivity that does not require any effort from us. Slowly, a larger and larger percentage of our GDP will be sourced without any input from any human. Seems rather silly to not take that 'free' output and distribute it so as to give everyone in the country the basic standard of living.

In fact, it would be catastrophic at some point not to do so. Eventually you get to a point where you simply have 'machine-owners' and 'non-machine owners'. And after a certain point, it's going to be incredibly difficult to move from one group to the other. I'm looking ahead rather far here, but without a basic income, one can envision a situation where a child born in the not so far future, no matter how creative, ingenious or resourceful, would not benefit from a basic standard of living (even though we'd have large amounts of surplus produce) simply because robots have all the jobs and there's nothing available for them.
 
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Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

One factory has "reduced employee strength from 110,000 to 50,000 thanks to the introduction of robots", a government official told the South China Morning Post.

Xu Yulian, head of publicity for the Kunshan region, added: "More companies are likely to follow suit."

I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

This is a road that we cannot stop going down now. We are talking about several moving parts here. Apple gets the advantage of negotiation for less cost per item from the factory, and FoxConn has more latitude to maneuver because of price depression. Ultimately all that savings *might* result in product development and innovation in the long term, but in shorter term we are talking about a profit move.

This is not unique to Apple and FoxConn, the auto industry has been dealing with for a much longer term now as just one example. The article hints at the other, increased labor costs for lowest income quintile work in fast food.

The "what to do" question is always the same, can we apply education to that workforce and get them into different jobs well above the lowest income quintile? From a government initiative point of view that has not been realized to the point of preventing the race to the bottom in this nation alone. Now we get to mention world labor markets.

I would further offer this is bound to get much worse before conditions improve. Especially in China where the government is not exactly known for taking care of impacted workforce from automation / robotics improvements.
 
Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

I thought I would end up quoting one poster to address what I thought was their main point in retooling the populace, but it seems pieces of my total takeaway were written by multiple posters.

Anyway, what I think would be helpful, in addition to the usually-stated industrial revolution dynamics, is to take a look back at vocational rehabilitation and vocational education history for those with disabilities, whether for veterans who acquired disability from combat or those who acquired it through the their previous civilian jobs.

Since the 1920s, individuals in the field of vocational rehabilitation had been a federal effort, driven not just by the veteran problem as in decades past, but through a growing economic awareness. If one delves into their texts and even their self-created histories through the 1960s, it is quite clear that they thought they were contending with a macro-economic development that was putting these people at risk. That development was the noticed increased reliance on skilled labor and the gradual removal of non-skilled labor as the backbone of the economy. For the time, the definition of skilled labor was often the manufacturing jobs that today we recognize as being in short supply or in a twilight phase in the global economy.

What did they do since then? They pumped energies to do what many of you and others suggest: re-tool them to serve another purpose, given the biological (or later the addition of intellectual) limitations. Those who had previously been skilled labor and acquired a disability were to be reeducated and trained for another skilled trade. However, most ambitiously, there was a multi-decade attempt to take those who were previously non-skilled workers to be skilled workers. To a large extent that effort succeeded in getting them technically prepared to join or rejoin the market. The problem later came that those gains often faded due to discriminatory practices, the need for services creating a disincentive to work because of penalties accrued for working, and so on. But in many respects they had successfully altered how this population was trained and educated. We have the data to prove that entrance into postsecondary education of any sort and all sorts had substantially increased since the 1980s. Nevertheless, there are huge swaths of individuals in sheltered workshops making far less than minimum wage while the contracting agency or state agency has a financial incentive to keep it that way. Further, the employment figures largely haven't budged since the early 1980s.

But despite these meta successes and failures it always brings up the most troubling question: is there a breaking point in what would be expected of individuals in order to have not only a satisfactory economic existence, but one that doesn't substantially impoverish them?

If the requisite skills, education, and social connections become so overwhelming for a substantial percentage of the population, does society have an obligation to find a mechanism to ensure that they are not living in dire straits?
 
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Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Ok, so now we have 60,000 people that are now trained in robotics repair...how many of those 60,000 are going to be working at this company that just fired those 60,000?

And that's assuming that they don't have two robots that can repair each other because the odds of both of them breaking down at the same time is virtually nil.

We've been automating for a century plus, this is nothing new. Go back a hundred years and look at the jobs people were doing then, looks nothing like today and today will look nothing like tomorrow. People will find things to do for a living.
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Get some training in robotics repair.

If I quit my job to go to uni for 4 years, how do I pay my mortgage?
 
Re: Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'

Foxconn replaces '60,000 factory workers with robots'



I've been saying for quite awhile now that we need to start thinking about what to do when companies start ditching humans in favor of automation. Particularly with the advances in robotics more and more companies are going to go automated. So does anyone really believe anymore that this isn't going to happen? What do you think needs done to handle this situation?

i don't believe humanity is mature enough as a species to handle this issue. communism has always failed, and capitalism can't survive if no one can afford to buy anything. unless, robots become consumers? we certainly need some kind of paradigm shift in our mode of thinking to handle the issue, it's not as simple as 'stop automation' or 'welfare for everyone', imo.
 
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