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Four Moral Issues Sharply Divide Americans

Korimyr the Rat

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Four Moral Issues Sharply Divide Americans

Lydia Saad said:
PRINCETON, NJ -- Americans generally agree about the morality of 12 out of 16 behaviors or social policies that sometimes spark public controversy, with sizable majorities saying each is either "morally acceptable" or "morally wrong." By contrast, views on doctor-assisted suicide, gay and lesbian relations, abortion, and having a baby outside of marriage are closely divided -- the percentage supporting and the percentage opposing are within 15 points of each other.
Some interesting findings in here.

I'm most surprised by the number of Americans who consider polygamy acceptable-- one in ten men and one in twenty women. Independents are twice as likely to accept polygamy than either Democrats or Republicans-- one of the few issues in which Independents do not fall neatly between the two major parties.

I'm also disappointed by the very high numbers in favor of divorce and the very low numbers in favor of cloning.
 

Jetboogieman

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Definitely agree with the abortion one, holy crap man I found out really quick when I joined this forum to do one thing when it came to abortion debates.... DO NOT GET INVOLVED! Period. It's like continually smashing your face into a brick wall.

But that's besides the point, the problem with these 4 moral issues is religion... plain and simple religion comes in with these arguments everytime. I'm not advocating the abolition of Religion, you know believe what you wanna believe it's a free country yada yada yada... but what a world it would be without Allah, God, Yahweh and Jehovah...
 
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1069

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I'm not advocating the abolition of Religion, you know believe what you wanna believe it's a free country yada yada yada... but what a world it would be with Allah, God, Yahweh and Jehovah...

You want to abolish the Confederation of Super Best Friends? :( *


(* obligatory Southpark reference).
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Definitely agree with the abortion one, holy crap man I found out really quick when I joined this forum to do one thing when it came to abortion debates.... DO NOT GET INVOLVED! Period. It's like continually smashing your face into a brick wall.
Hell, the Abortion subforum is where I made my rep here. Practice fighting and you have to accept you're going to get hit, but that just means you have to practice harder.

But that's besides the point, the problem with these 4 moral issues is religion... plain and simple religion comes in with these arguments everytime. I'm not advocating the abolition of Religion, you know believe what you wanna believe it's a free country yada yada yada... but what a world it would be without Allah, God, Yahweh and Jehovah...
What do you expect? These are moral issues and most peoples' morality is defined by their religion. Without religion the numbers might be different, but the issues would still be present.
 

Jetboogieman

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Hell, the Abortion subforum is where I made my rep here. Practice fighting and you have to accept you're going to get hit, but that just means you have to practice harder.
Ah I'm just a big ***** that doesn't like to lose. In those debates there are no winners because neither side will back down.

What do you expect? These are moral issues and most peoples' morality is defined by their religion. Without religion the numbers might be different, but the issues would still be present.
I disagree, the issues are only issues because religion gets so uppity about them. I mean think about it, if there wasn't an entire institution that preached Anti-Homosexuality and Anti-Condoms and so forth like the Catholic church to hundreds of millions of people, would they be against it from birth? Perhaps not as many. People like being told what to think...
 

1069

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Ah I'm just a big ***** that doesn't like to lose. In those debates there are no winners because neither side will back down.
I think you just have a non-confrontational nature, and that forum in particular is very heated and confrontational; the people who frequent it- both prolife and prochoice- are not arguing the issue in the abstract manner we typically debate sociopolitical issues. Their arguments all come from personal experience, and there are a lot of emotions involved.
I guess that's why I enjoy it: the drama! :lol:
 

Korimyr the Rat

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Ah I'm just a big ***** that doesn't like to lose. In those debates there are no winners because neither side will back down.
That's what scorecards are for. Just because you can't score a knockout doesn't mean you're not winning.

People like being told what to think...
All the more reason to be outspoken in telling them what to think. Otherwise, you're conceding the field to people whose values oppose yours.
 

Deuce

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Four Moral Issues Sharply Divide Americans



Some interesting findings in here.

I'm most surprised by the number of Americans who consider polygamy acceptable-- one in ten men and one in twenty women. Independents are twice as likely to accept polygamy than either Democrats or Republicans-- one of the few issues in which Independents do not fall neatly between the two major parties.

I'm also disappointed by the very high numbers in favor of divorce and the very low numbers in favor of cloning.
I, on the other hand, am utterly baffled that anyone could consider divorce to be "morally wrong."
 

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I, on the other hand, am utterly baffled that anyone could consider divorce to be "morally wrong."
I definitely believe there are divorces that are morally wrong, but not all divorces are. For example, any divorce where no kids are involved is the prerogative of the consenting adults. However, once kids are involved, I believe that the kids are the priority, not the adults. In these marriages, the individuals are obligated to work at the marriage to get it right, and to stay together.
 

Chuz Life

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Definitely agree with the abortion one, holy crap man I found out really quick when I joined this forum to do one thing when it came to abortion debates.... DO NOT GET INVOLVED! Period. It's like continually smashing your face into a brick wall.

But that's besides the point, the problem with these 4 moral issues is religion... plain and simple religion comes in with these arguments everytime. I'm not advocating the abolition of Religion, you know believe what you wanna believe it's a free country yada yada yada... but what a world it would be without Allah, God, Yahweh and Jehovah...
:shock: :doh :soap

For the record (and I admit that I am the exception) I do not want, need or see the benefit of having religion used in any debates.

And that goes especially for the abortion debate!

I don't need "God" or religion to recognize the faces fingers and toes or any of the other human attributes on an aborted child. And it baffles me as to why anyone else does.
 

Goshin

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:shock: :doh :soap

For the record (and I admit that I am the exception) I do not want, need or see the benefit of having religion used in any debates.

And that goes especially for the abortion debate!

I don't need "God" or religion to recognize the faces fingers and toes or any of the other human attributes on an aborted child. And it baffles me as to why anyone else does.

Actually I was going to mention you. :mrgreen:

There are people who are not particularly religious, or not religious at all, who may stand on either side of any of these issues. I won't deny that religious beliefs play a role for the majority, but not entirely by a long shot.

I personally know people who are about as religious as a bootscraper, who for whatever reason abhor homosexuality so vehemently that they make me look like a liberal pansy. :mrgreen:
 

Chuz Life

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Actually I was going to mention you. :mrgreen:

There are people who are not particularly religious, or not religious at all, who may stand on either side of any of these issues. I won't deny that religious beliefs play a role for the majority, but not entirely by a long shot.

I personally know people who are about as religious as a bootscraper, who for whatever reason abhor homosexuality so vehemently that they make me look like a liberal pansy. :mrgreen:
Thanks Goshin!

And for the record (again) on a different subject,....

I believe that our sexuality is largely genetic. That goes for every one of us,... So for me to go hating on someone because they are gay,... in my way of thinking that would be the same as hating them because they have downs, or are left handed, or have red hair.

That doesn't mean that I don't find some of the stories and images 'repulsive.'

I do.

But I try to temper my reactions with the fact that they can no more help their sexuality than I can.
 

Goshin

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I, on the other hand, am utterly baffled that anyone could consider divorce to be "morally wrong."
Family is the fundamental building block of society. That which destroys families, weakens society in many ways, only one of which is creating difficulties in raising and civilizing the next generation of barbarians.

Divorce can and often is heartbreaking enough for adults; for children it splits their entire world in half forever. It is a rare and fortunate child who never suffers any kind of problems due to their parent's divorce.

As most regulars here know, I am a divorced single father; possibly it seems hypocritical for me to speak against divorce when I've had one. I would say instead that, having been through the experience, it was one of the most shattering things that I've ever been through (and I've been through rather a lot), and even though my son is coming along very nicely there are still issues that impact him negatively, that are a direct result of the fact that his parents are divorced.

I'm not sorry I got a divorce; I didn't file for divorce until it became clear that the alternative was one of us killing the other. My own case was pretty extreme.

I don't believe in making divorce impossible, but I do think that as a society we would benefit from efforts to make it.... let's say less of a default solution and more of an absolute last resort.
 

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I disagree, the issues are only issues because religion gets so uppity about them.
I'm a pro-life atheist. I suspect that the vast majority of pro-life Christians would still be pro-life even without religion.
 

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I, on the other hand, am utterly baffled that anyone could consider divorce to be "morally wrong."
It's a violation of a sacred vow. What's hard to understand?
 

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I find it odd that 6% find adultery acceptable. I guess it's a low # but it seems high to me.
 

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I'm trying to figure out the big discrepancy between those who feel suicide is morally wrong and those who feel Dr. assisted suicide is morally wrong? :?
 

Goshin

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Four Moral Issues Sharply Divide Americans



Some interesting findings in here.

I'm most surprised by the number of Americans who consider polygamy acceptable-- one in ten men and one in twenty women. Independents are twice as likely to accept polygamy than either Democrats or Republicans-- one of the few issues in which Independents do not fall neatly between the two major parties.

I'm also disappointed by the very high numbers in favor of divorce and the very low numbers in favor of cloning.


Hmm. I'm surprised the support for polygamy isn't higher. I'd support polygamy before I'd support gay marriage... polygamy has historical precendent and fulfills the fundamental function of family: producing and raising children.

I have no problem with cloning animals. Cloning humans is complex issue with many moral/ethical issues to be resolved before we allow it to be done legally (I'm sure it will be done illegally very soon, if it hasn't already.) A human clone would obviously be human, but is it legally a person? My own position is an emphatic Yes, for a variety of reasons I will forebear to go into unless someone asks. (It would take some explaining.)

Doctor-assisted suicide.... I just don't know about that one. I mean, it already happens very quietly on the down-low.... the patient dying in horrific agony of cancer, the nurse leaves a full syringe of morphine (an overdose of it) on the table and leaves the room, so the family can decide whether to administer it or not. In those cases I sympathize with the action, and I hope someone will do me that kindness if I end up like that. OTOH I worry that doctor-assisted suicide could create a slippery slope (see my sig line) leading to not-really-voluntary euthanasia. My mind is not made up on this one.
 
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Korimyr the Rat

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I'm trying to figure out the big discrepancy between those who feel suicide is morally wrong and those who feel Dr. assisted suicide is morally wrong? :?
Most suicides aren't terminally ill, while it is assumed that those that would be assisted by a doctor would be. Personally, I have no moral objection to suicide or assisted suicide, whether there's a doctor involved or not-- but doctor assisted suicide at least ensures that there's an adequate chance the person will be referred into therapy and it doesn't leave the family in the tragic position of having to find the body.

Hmm. I'm surprised the support for polygamy isn't higher. I'd support polygamy before I'd support gay marriage... polygamy has historical precendent and fulfills the fundamental function of family: producing and raising children.
Between one in ten men and one in twenty women, though? That's surprisingly high, at least to me. As for supporting polygamy... I was in favor of polygamy before I ever considered the issue of gay marriage. Too much Heinlein as a kid.

I have no problem with cloning animals. Cloning humans is complex issue with many moral/ethical issues to be resolved before we allow it to be done legally (I'm sure it will be done illegally very soon, if it hasn't already.) A human clone would obviously be human, but is it legally a person? My own position is an emphatic Yes, for a variety of reasons I will forebear to go into unless someone asks. (It would take some explaining.)
I agree with you here. A cloned person is just as much a person as the donor's twin would be. The only reason I'm currently opposed to it is the technical difficulties with it, and the fact that all cloned animals have exhibited troubling defects; it would not be right to subject a person to such a life. I have no problem with cloning human tissue.
 

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I find it odd that 6% find adultery acceptable. I guess it's a low # but it seems high to me.
That does seem a bit odd, as statistics seem to bear out that somewhere in the 50-70% range "reportedly" admit to having an adulterous relationship at some point during their marriages. Maybe it's the statistics I read that are in error, but I don't understand that large a disparity.
To me, it seems that the reason divorce has become more common and adultery seems to not be such a big deal anymore is that many people today are so focused on themselves and what makes them "feel good" that the priority of the marriage relationship takes a back seat, and unfortunately, the children do too. There are truly dysfunctional marriages in which the children would be better off without that abusive spouse or abusive parent, but oftentimes it seems to be that people leave a marriage simply because they aren't interested in the relationship enough to compromise and try to make it work. Marriage (or any other important relationship) requires hard work, dedication, and a forgiving spirit.
 

Korimyr the Rat

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It does absolutely baffle me that someone could consider adultery acceptable but be morally opposed to polygamy. That doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
 

FluffyNinja

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Most suicides aren't terminally ill, while it is assumed that those that would be assisted by a doctor would be. Personally, I have no moral objection to suicide or assisted suicide, whether there's a doctor involved or not-- but doctor assisted suicide at least ensures that there's an adequate chance the person will be referred into therapy and it doesn't leave the family in the tragic position of having to find the body.
I see your point and agree; however, if we assume that the reason for choosing to end one's own life is to end "suffering", is it safe to assume that ANY suicide victim is attempting to do this? Whether for mental illness or terminal physical illness? I just don't see how only 15% of the people polled can feel that one is morally acceptable and nearly 50% can feel the other is acceptable. Could this be a case of "the ends justifying the means" or is it vice versa?
 
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Goshin

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Between one in ten men and one in twenty women, though? That's surprisingly high, at least to me. As for supporting polygamy... I was in favor of polygamy before I ever considered the issue of gay marriage. Too much Heinlein as a kid.

Ditto on the Heinlein. :mrgreen: Reading "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Friday" in your early teens will have that effect. That's probably why I really wouldn't much care if polygamy was legalized, but I've learned to keep my thoughts on that subject to myself around my fellow Southern Baptists.



I agree with you here. A cloned person is just as much a person as the donor's twin would be. The only reason I'm currently opposed to it is the technical difficulties with it, and the fact that all cloned animals have exhibited troubling defects; it would not be right to subject a person to such a life. I have no problem with cloning human tissue.
Yup, same-same.
 

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Here's a chart I found pretty interesting:


What surprised me about it is that on almost every issue, women are more on the socially conservative side than men are. The only exceptions are the top three, plus the death penalty, plus birth outside of marriage.
 

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Four Moral Issues Sharply Divide Americans



Some interesting findings in here.

I'm most surprised by the number of Americans who consider polygamy acceptable-- one in ten men and one in twenty women. Independents are twice as likely to accept polygamy than either Democrats or Republicans-- one of the few issues in which Independents do not fall neatly between the two major parties.

I'm also disappointed by the very high numbers in favor of divorce and the very low numbers in favor of cloning.

Which kind of cloning are you talking about? Animals or humans?
 
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