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Founding Fathers Quotes About Homosexual Sin

Texmex

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iliveonramen

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Founding Fathers Quotes About Homosexual Sin | USA Christian Ministries: Pastor Steven Andrew - Christian Nation: The Lord is the God of the USA & We are His People

I wonder why George Washington's viewpoint, which is the correct one, has been ignored by todays American?

Of course this will lead to a farther degradation of our society as we race toward the gutter with the sodomite culture that is unfortunately accepted by too many in todays America.
They also believed women shouldn't vote, owned slaves, thought native american's weren't humans just speed bumps on the path to settle all of North America as well as deeply distrustful of non-protestants and other religious groups.

I don't agree the founders were "bad" they were just products of their time. At the same time...I really don't give 2 ****s what Washington thought was moral because in a modern prospective they had a lot of beliefs that wouldn't fly now-a-days.
 

soccerboy22

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Society has evolved since Washington's time and I do not believe that is viewpoint is correct. I have no moral problem with the gays and if they want to suffer through the institution that is marriage than let them.
 

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Founding Fathers Quotes About Homosexual Sin | USA Christian Ministries: Pastor Steven Andrew - Christian Nation: The Lord is the God of the USA & We are His People I wonder why George Washington's viewpoint, which is the correct one, has been ignored by todays American? Of course this will lead to a farther degradation of our society as we race toward the gutter with the sodomite culture that is unfortunately accepted by too many in todays America.
More revisionist right wing religious dribble.

First in an era where the punishment for being caught in the act was everything from flogging, through jail to in Virginia, castration, homosexuals were simply dismissed from service. Lt. Enslin committed three courts martial offenses , two of which George was on record against. First was lying about a fellow Officer, which Enslin did. Next was fraternizing with the lower class which Enslin did, he had sex with a private. Finally he was gay, which other gay men had been simply discharged and not punished or castrated.

Odd too considering general Von Steuben was gay, had a young french aide as his lover. According to historian J .Katz- Hamilton and Laurens, Washington's aides, had a gay relationship and by Washington's directive worked daily with Von Steuben and his gay lover. Washington had to know something.

So in an era where military discipline got men flogged for minor offenses, gays were released from service unharmed and with their testes.

Now George himself is rather under a cloud, he was married but it was by all accounts a loveless marriage, and unlike other Founding Fathers he didn't have affairs with other women... ( do note how adultery was part of the game back then but the Righteous re-writers of history ignore that sin to try and prove how 'bad' homosexuality was to the FFs) He preferred the company of men and spent a great deal of time with his younger aides.

But do spin away..... :2wave:
 

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I think that it is good that we have ceased to be a brutal culture where sinners should have to face death or dismemberment as temporal punishment for their sins. If two or more should chose to sin together, that is between them and God, not the state.
 

roughdraft274

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Founding Fathers Quotes About Homosexual Sin | USA Christian Ministries: Pastor Steven Andrew - Christian Nation: The Lord is the God of the USA & We are His People

I wonder why George Washington's viewpoint, which is the correct one, has been ignored by todays American?

Of course this will lead to a farther degradation of our society as we race toward the gutter with the sodomite culture that is unfortunately accepted by too many in todays America.
The founding fathers were humans who are flawed just like any other humans. We must remember this. So we can't treat what they said as gospel. That would just be stupid, not to mention that not all of them agreed on every subject. We should run with the good ideas that they had and scrap the bad ones. And if this pastor really wants to preach this crap, maybe he should remember what God did to idolators in the bible, and keep that in mind when he tries to act as though the founders were somehow above human.
 

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Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?...He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Psalm 2:1,4

Sodomy is as much of a sin and disgrace today as it has always been.
 

winston53660

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Founding Fathers Quotes About Homosexual Sin | USA Christian Ministries: Pastor Steven Andrew - Christian Nation: The Lord is the God of the USA & We are His People

I wonder why George Washington's viewpoint, which is the correct one, has been ignored by todays American?

Of course this will lead to a farther degradation of our society as we race toward the gutter with the sodomite culture that is unfortunately accepted by too many in todays America.

From your link:
Thomas Jefferson authored a bill to castrate rapists and homosexuals.. Jefferson’s bill didn’t become law but shows his disapproval of sexual sins. He wrote:
What this snippet doesn't tell you

In 1778, Thomas Jefferson wrote a law in Virginia which contained a punishment of castration for men who engage in sodomy,[1] however, what was intended by Jefferson as a liberalization of the sodomy laws in Virginia at that time was rejected by the Virginia Legislature, which continued to prescribe death as the maximum penalty for the crime of sodomy in that state.[2]
Sodomy laws in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Lying by omission? You decide....
 

iliveonramen

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Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?...He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Psalm 2:1,4

Sodomy is as much of a sin and disgrace today as it has always been.
Let God judge them. I'm not really sure why you feel the need of the state to judge them.
 

Paschendale

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Considering all the effort that the founders put into keeping Christianity out of our government and law, it boggles my mind when anyone invokes them in order to do the opposite.
 

soot

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Sodomy is as much of a sin and disgrace today as it has always been.
If you've never tried it you don't know what you're missing.

I'm straight as an arrow, by the way.

We've been known to dabble in sodomy too (if we're capable of finding a willing partner of the opposite sex).
 

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If you've never tried it you don't know what you're missing.

I'm straight as an arrow, by the way.

We've been known to dabble in sodomy too (if we're capable of finding a willing partner of the opposite sex).
Okay, my uptight side will be showing now.... I go by the idea and have also encouraged my daughter to do the same.... If a man wants to sodomize me, he's gay. That's fine, he can be gay, but he can't be gay with me as I'm not a guy. Oh, and so much worse, ... if a man want's me clean shaven down there, he's a pedophile and I'll have nothing to do with him. Sorry, I don't expect anyone else to adopt these ideas, but they are mine, and I hold to them.
 

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Okay, my uptight side will be showing now.... I go by the idea and have also encouraged my daughter to do the same.... If a man wants to sodomize me, he's gay. That's fine, he can be gay, but he can't be gay with me as I'm not a guy. Oh, and so much worse, ... if a man want's me clean shaven down there, he's a pedophile and I'll have nothing to do with him. Sorry, I don't expect anyone else to adopt these ideas, but they are mine, and I hold to them.
Boy...you're not much fun.:lol:

Seriously, you ARE 'my' Wife.
 

ChuckBerry

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Considering all the effort that the founders put into keeping Christianity out of our government and law, it boggles my mind when anyone invokes them in order to do the opposite.
Wouldn't that then render their decision to punish sodomy as a non-Christian position? If so, then separation of church and state isn't a legitimate counter to sodomy laws.

The natural law of man, separate from any religion, demonstrates that sodomy is aberrant at best, and it is completely legitimate to see it as such. Whether laws of the state should actively discourage it is another question, and whether the state should formally recognize and sanction such relationships still another.
 

notquiteright

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Okay, my uptight side will be showing now.... I go by the idea and have also encouraged my daughter to do the same.... If a man wants to sodomize me, he's gay. That's fine, he can be gay, but he can't be gay with me as I'm not a guy. Oh, and so much worse, ... if a man want's me clean shaven down there, he's a pedophile and I'll have nothing to do with him. Sorry, I don't expect anyone else to adopt these ideas, but they are mine, and I hold to them.
Is that right? I don't want folks here to think I am a dawg or nothing but I have met quite a few ladies who enjoy being gay with the right guy... met quite a few who keep themselves clean shaven down there, say it is much more hygienic. Course quite a few have a trimmed front and slick as a whistle underneath. I prefer at least that, stopping to pick out hairs is a bit of a put-off. This isn't the 70's.... :2wave:
 

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Wouldn't that then render their decision to punish sodomy as a non-Christian position? If so, then separation of church and state isn't a legitimate counter to sodomy laws.

The natural law of man, separate from any religion, demonstrates that sodomy is aberrant at best, and it is completely legitimate to see it as such. Whether laws of the state should actively discourage it is another question, and whether the state should formally recognize and sanction such relationships still another.
If the natural law of man (what a ridiculous thing, but let's go with it) demonstrates that sodomy is aberrant, then please explain why it is in history as far back as we have history to consider? Yes, it's been on and off again considered horrible and criminal and just plain gross, but anti-natural?????? You're just showing how stupid you are when it comes to comprehending terms, or ignorant of all the sex through all of history.
 

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Even had I been alive at the time I wouldn't have cared a whit for the opinion of a whiskey-seizing, big government-loving closet Federalist like Washington. ;-)
 

Summerwind

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Is that right? I don't want folks here to think I am a dawg or nothing but I have met quite a few ladies who enjoy being gay with the right guy... met quite a few who keep themselves clean shaven down there, say it is much more hygienic. Course quite a few have a trimmed front and slick as a whistle underneath. I prefer at least that, stopping to pick out hairs is a bit of a put-off. This isn't the 70's.... :2wave:
I'm one of the few luckies to be very slim on hair anywhere (okay not so great that I have baby fine, thin hair on my head) and I do trim. My daughter is my hair opposite and she trims, I get that, I'm not saying one shouldn't be groomed. As for hygiene, I say pfft. You're more likely to have ingrown hairs when one shaves, and the one time I had to, OY! the grow-back was an itchy nightmare, never again.
As for the gay, yeah, not going there. Never. Just not into poop, at all, and my mind sees it as a messy poopy ordeal and regardless of realities I'm informed of, just not okay with me. I'll never get that vision out of my head, YUCK!
 

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I wonder why George Washington's viewpoint, which is the correct one, has been ignored by todays American?
Is everything any of the Founding Fathers said automatically correct or is it only the things you happen to agree with?
 

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Wouldn't that then render their decision to punish sodomy as a non-Christian position? If so, then separation of church and state isn't a legitimate counter to sodomy laws.
You do realize that the mere fact that the founders attempted (attempt is an important word to keep in mind) to keep religion out of government does not mean that the resulting government was wholly devoid of religion. These men were not perfect. They failed in many regards. They didn't excise the Abrahamic traditions of slavery and oppression of women. The 1789 government was, despite efforts of the founders, still quite tangled in religion. Don't argue contrived absolutes. There is no non-religious source for hatred of sexuality.

The natural law of man, separate from any religion, demonstrates that sodomy is aberrant at best, and it is completely legitimate to see it as such. Whether laws of the state should actively discourage it is another question, and whether the state should formally recognize and sanction such relationships still another.
Well, this first sentence is completely unfounded. There is no "natural law of man", either in that we are built with internal law (though we have morality, it is not a list of dos and don'ts), nor is there any such natural law that isn't also for women. And if such law existed, it would not concern itself with sexual positions. No one really cares about other people's sexuality, unless they have been conditioned to do so by religion, and primarily just Abrahamic religion. Many cultures that were not contaminated by the notions of primitive Hebrews had no "natural" problem with sodomy, either between males, or between men and women. That most such sex occurs between heterosexual couples always seems to be omitted when discussions of sodomy come up in discussions about homosexuality. There is absolutely no basis to conclude that human beings have an innate opposition to any sexual position.

It is true that this supposed "natural law" question is very different from whether the state should act to prevent people from having sodomy with each other. Of course it shouldn't. The state has no business regulating consenting sexual contact. And the whining about the government sanctioning anything is sad and pathetic. The desire for some kind of invisible middle ground is just a last ditch effort by bigots to continue to discriminate. The government has no business preventing people of the same sex from marrying, least of all because of religious problems with various kinds of sex. There is no middle ground between "not prosecuting people for homosexuality" and "not excluding homosexuals from the same rights as heterosexuals" that isn't still bigoted and discriminatory.

Give it up. Your religion does not give you license to control the lives of others, nor does it give you special insight into human nature.

Even had I been alive at the time I wouldn't have cared a whit for the opinion of a whiskey-seizing, big government-loving closet Federalist like Washington. ;-)
Seizing as much whiskey as possible is always the right choice.:drink
 

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Wouldn't that then render their decision to punish sodomy as a non-Christian position? If so, then separation of church and state isn't a legitimate counter to sodomy laws. The natural law of man, separate from any religion, demonstrates that sodomy is aberrant at best, and it is completely legitimate to see it as such. Whether laws of the state should actively discourage it is another question, and whether the state should formally recognize and sanction such relationships still another.
I agree, except the OP is trying to make it a GAWD thang. His second post is pure GAWD.

Now the natural laws of man. I don't think so because back in the day homosexuality was a common thread in society. Greeks do it, Persians do it, Egyptians do it, even Romans did it. Asians, Hindus, Africans, native Americans, all had a strong history of homo-meaning same not man- sexuality. It seems calling it unnatural is more a Middle East and European invention that the early Europeans took to the New World rather than a widespread taboo the Europeans found already in the New World...google berdaches.

So thinking your concept of a natural law is heaviest in the Christian and Muslim world, not world wide.... sorta knocks natural law of man on it's butt....
 

notquiteright

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I'm one of the few luckies to be very slim on hair anywhere (okay not so great that I have baby fine, thin hair on my head) and I do trim. My daughter is my hair opposite and she trims, I get that, I'm not saying one shouldn't be groomed. As for hygiene, I say pfft. You're more likely to have ingrown hairs when one shaves, and the one time I had to, OY! the grow-back was an itchy nightmare, never again.
As for the gay, yeah, not going there. Never. Just not into poop, at all, and my mind sees it as a messy poopy ordeal and regardless of realities I'm informed of, just not okay with me. I'll never get that vision out of my head, YUCK!
Well very light hair down there is pedo too, as I do believe fine down starts way before the age of consent... Ya got my Daddy fantasy going... :shock:

Most girls I know that shave do so as part of a routine I am not privy to but lotions are involved and I can attest on the ones I have ahhhh seen there are no ingrown hairs. Odd though, black girls do have a bit more of a bump problem, even when taking extra care down there.

LMAO, if i ever get a tattoo it will be in the tramp stamp area saying something like, "EXIT ONLY" or "NO DELIVERIES IN REAR" how some ever I have met many ladies who swear the orgasm is much more intense and the foreplay needed to prepare a great deal of fun. But i understand your mindset, i know a few guys who will never lick the kitty, it is too close to the old pooper to be a snack.

I call them-
Dateless again... :mrgreen:
 

Summerwind

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Well very light hair down there is pedo too, as I do believe fine down starts way before the age of consent... Ya got my Daddy fantasy going... :shock:

Most girls I know that shave do so as part of a routine I am not privy to but lotions are involved and I can attest on the ones I have ahhhh seen there are no ingrown hairs. Odd though, black girls do have a bit more of a bump problem, even when taking extra care down there.

LMAO, if i ever get a tattoo it will be in the tramp stamp area saying something like, "EXIT ONLY" or "NO DELIVERIES IN REAR" how some ever I have met many ladies who swear the orgasm is much more intense and the foreplay needed to prepare a great deal of fun. But i understand your mindset, i know a few guys who will never lick the kitty, it is too close to the old pooper to be a snack.

I call them-
Dateless again... :mrgreen:
ROFL Though I suppose I should admit that though I was a tramp and vamp in my younger years, I've chosen to be asexual for nearly 16 years. So I'm wwaaaay behind (no pun intended, tee hee) on the subject.
 

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If you've never tried it you don't know what you're missing.

I'm straight as an arrow, by the way.

We've been known to dabble in sodomy too (if we're capable of finding a willing partner of the opposite sex).

Why is the bolded line so necessary then?
 

soot

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Why is the bolded line so necessary then?
Hey, I'm Army over here hardcore.

We don't suffer from the same...predilictions...as y'all sailor boys do.

:mrgreen:
 
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