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Forum Circa 2020, The Absence of Reason, and the Prevalence of Emotionalism and Political Bigotry.

Captain Adverse

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IMO there is a very real and rapidly growing problem in the world of political discourse. That being the absence of reason, and the substitution of emotionalism and political bigotry.

First, let’s define those terms as I use them in this post:

1. Emotionalism: An inclination to rely on or place too much value on emotion when dealing with issues or confrontations, as opposed to resorting to reason when dealing with reality.

2. Political Bigotry: Obstinate or intolerant devotion to one’s own political opinions and political prejudices.

As it applies to this Forum, most especially over the last 3.5 years as of this post (06/23/20), we have seen a sharp divide over the socio-economic and political issues and goals being discussed. This is being demonstrated in our Forum by the following observations.

IMO many members have been acting like the Main Forum is just an extension of the Forum’s “Basement.” A place I have opted to avoid (with very rare exceptions) since the first couple of months access after joining in 2013.

To me, the Basement is liken to school-yard posturing and bullying one may recall from back in grade school. Where kids tried to win “Ew-squad” points by trash-talking one-another. I’ve grown out of that kind of posturing, but I recognize it remains an option for those who consider it an outlet to vent.

But IMO the Main Forum is the place for actual discussion and debate. Not a place to “trash talk” if you are seeking a real argument/discussion. Yet that’s exactly what’s been happening over the last 3.5 years, to where it is not quite as easy to distinguish between the Basement and the Main Forum anymore.

Observably an OP is presented; but instead of responses either agreeing with or challenging the issue, what do we see? Short, quick snipes at either the author, or the subject matter (sometimes both). IMO solely designed to gain “likes” as if this were a Twitter feed instead of a Debate Forum.

More often than not such responses are from Members trying to denigrate the source of the argument; either the citation, the posting Member, or both. They are not seeking to engage the OP, or address the actual issue raised. IMO they seek affirmation from their "peer group," like a reinforcing echo-chamber. By doing so, simply overwhelm the argument by force of negative peer pressure tactics.

To be clear, I have no problems with identifying the political lean of a source. But once that’s done? The point remains that just because you don’t like the source doesn’t mean the information provided, or the argument being made by that source is automatically invalidated. Yet it seems to me that so many members (most especially from the “Left") think that by demonizing the posting Member and/or the source of any information being presented, this automatically negates any factual value of the information being presented.

I have been a member now for seven years, and I can and do tear an argument apart by identifying logical fallacies being used. That can be annoying to someone, but it is a valid response to the argument itself.

However, how often (if ever) have I called anyone a Liar, Fool, Idiot, Racist, or any other term of usage designed to personally denigrate the opposing member? Instead, at worst, you’ll see me say “those on your side of the argument,” or use whichever political lean (Leftist, Socialist, Progressive, Communist, etc.) you’ve personally identified yourself with.

So the question is…why do so many members use such tactics which do not “win” arguments, but only serve to silence opposition by those who see responding as a waste of time?

Is that the purpose?

If so, does anyone honestly think that by silencing someone who has realized there is no point responding to YOU, this means they’ve given up their opposition?

IMO? It only means the readers simply avoid YOU; while they remain both unconvinced by your arguments and even more adamantly entrenched in their viewpoints. Moreover, they will seek others of like mind to band together in deeply entrenched opposition.

Think about it next time your first instinct is to attack the person instead of their argument. The more entrenched each side becomes, the less conversation seeking understanding and compromise will occur.

At some point the struggle may lead beyond mere words, and that bodes no good for anyone.
 

swing_voter

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If Media Bias/Fact Check - Search and Learn the Bias of News Media says the source is known for "conspiracy" and "pseudo science" and has failed many fact checks, I think it helps the community to point that out. Why trust a post when it's based on such a weak foundation?

Should people trust RT, Russia Times, as a source? No. And there's worse online news sources out there than RT.
 

Captain Adverse

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swing_voter;bt5174 said:
If Media Bias/Fact Check - Search and Learn the Bias of News Media says the source is known for "conspiracy" and "pseudo science" and has failed many fact checks, I think it helps the community to point that out. Why trust a post when it's based on such a weak foundation?

Should people trust RT, Russia Times, as a source? No. And there's worse online news sources out there than RT.
You raise a valid question.

However, as I mentioned in the blog, I have no problem with anyone pointing out the lean of the source itself. But that does not automatically eliminate either the value of the information or the importance of responding to the argument anyway.

Arguably many citations come from sources like CNN, VOX, Huffington Post, etc., all of which are Left-Leaning per MediaBias; as well as Fox News, The Federalist, Washington Examiner, etc., all of which are Right-Leaning per MediaBias. Then there are all the others in-between.

Hopefully you've seen how I usually respond to these and other sources anyway. By going into the story itself and either pointing out the flaws in the report, AND/OR acknowledging the valid points and arguing the merits.

What I strive not to do is attack the member presenting the message, nor simply attack the source without pointing out those flaws in the report that make the message itself invalid. That is what I am asking for people to consider.
 
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A very interesting post...thank you. You present what appears to be an almost insoluble problem...especially with a 2 party system. It always seems to be cast as good vs. evil...there is no genuine impetus or likelihood of compromise. I have suggestions which everyone can poke holes in...:)

The first thing...parties could reclaim their parties by vetting potential candidates...maybe to a set number number(4-6 ?).let these be the ones eligible for primaries. Secondly do as some other countries do and mandate equal and free air time.

If so much of politics is populated with those from the law profession surely they would be capable of employing reason. I could vastly elaborate on this but I offer these as thoughts.
 

Metanoia

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Part of that is my belief that the Republican Party has been emasculated. There was a very recent time when they upheld certain principles but they now are forced to swallow things that formerly would have been abhorrent to them.
 

Jetboogieman

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As usual, Captain Adverse self pity party that everyone is a meanie poo when in reality you know how a smart person is supposed to sound like, but the actual contents of your argument are embarrassing levels of trash arguments you are willing to go down to in order to what is 90% of the time, indefensible words and actions by the President.

You whine that people aren’t fair Enough to him, that they aren’t respectful enough to him etc.

This entire post is yet another example of your embarrassing, embarrassing level of partisan victim mentality employed usually, to defend one of the worst, upon worst, upon worst presidents there has ever been.
 

Captain Adverse

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Jetboogieman;bt5178 said:
As usual, Captain Adverse self pity party that everyone is a meanie poo when in reality you know how a smart person is supposed to sound like, but the actual contents of your argument are embarrassing levels of trash arguments you are willing to go down to in order to what is 90% of the time, indefensible words and actions by the President.

You whine that people aren’t fair Enough to him, that they aren’t respectful enough to him etc.

This entire post is yet another example of your embarrassing, embarrassing level of partisan victim mentality employed usually, to defend one of the worst, upon worst, upon worst presidents there has ever been.
What else to expect from a Basement Moderator than a perfect example of exactly the kind of thing discussed in the Blog. :sarcasticclap

Thank you, your example is much appreciated. :coffeepap:
 
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Jetboogieman

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Captain Adverse;bt5179 said:
What else to expect from a Basement Moderator than a perfect example of exactly the kind of thing discussed in the Blog. :sarcasticclap

Thank you, your example is much appreciated. :coffeepap:
Translation = Please don’t challenge my beliefs you meanie poo.
 

joko104

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delete
 
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joko104

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Captain Adverse hit the nail on the head.
 
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eon

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There should be a higher level of open-mindedness when entering the forum as opposed to the basement. This open-mindedness leads to a level of discourse that includes more meaningful dialog and less nonsensical memes.
 

Serenity

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Moderator's Warning:
I suggest that you read the forum rules again that also apply to DP Blogs. This blog is now under mod review and ALL posts are still subject to moderation. This blog is unable to be closed, only deleted or edited and that will not be happening until the review has been finalised. Please do not post any further in this blog.
 

Kyle Phoenix

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[shouldn't have posted so just ignore this.]
 
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