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Foreigners in jail

bub

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Lalibre.be - Quatre détenus sur dix sont étrangers

There are 10,000 inmates in Belgian jails.

4,500 of them are foreigners (they don't have the Belgian nationality)

However, out of the 5,500 "Belgians", at least 60% or 70% are "new-Belgians" (in the jail of Forest, near Brussels, 80% of the menus are "halal")

Now, we should bear in mind that foreigners are often poorer, and that poverty is one of the factors that explains criminality, and that when you look Arab or Black you're probably more easily arrested, but that's still huge.

All these people (the inmates who do not have the Belgian nationality, or who have a dual citizenship) should be deported. It's scandalous to have to pay billions for these people: our jails are so overpopulated that we have to rent Dutch jails! And it costs quite a lot of money, I heard that it was around 5,000€ per prisonner per month!
 

alexa

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Lalibre.be - Quatre détenus sur dix sont étrangers

There are 10,000 inmates in Belgian jails.

4,500 of them are foreigners (they don't have the Belgian nationality)

However, out of the 5,500 "Belgians", at least 60% or 70% are "new-Belgians" (in the jail of Forest, near Brussels, 80% of the menus are "halal")

Now, we should bear in mind that foreigners are often poorer, and that poverty is one of the factors that explains criminality, and that when you look Arab or Black you're probably more easily arrested, but that's still huge.

All these people (the inmates who do not have the Belgian nationality, or who have a dual citizenship) should be deported. It's scandalous to have to pay billions for these people: our jails are so overpopulated that we have to rent Dutch jails! And it costs quite a lot of money, I heard that it was around 5,000€ per prisoner per month!
So your small country puts 10,000 people in jail, according to you about 70% of whom are either foreign or of due nationality, the regular Belgium being of sanguine personality.

Here in the UK in 2005 it was 10,000 over 60's we put in jail. They were our largest growing prison population. Now where should we send them to save money. Possibly the poor health care in prison will do the job for us.

Erwin James on the treatment of elderly prisoners in British jails | Society | The Guardian

If Belgium is thinking of deporting people who are citizens, albeit people with dual citizenship, then it looks like Europe or some parts of it really are moving into a new Nazi type era.
 

bub

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So your small country puts 10,000 people in jail, according to you about 70% of whom are either foreign or of due nationality, the regular Belgium being of sanguine personality.

Here in the UK in 2005 it was 10,000 over 60's we put in jail. They were our largest growing prison population. Now where should we send them to save money. Possibly the poor health care in prison will do the job for us.

Erwin James on the treatment of elderly prisoners in British jails | Society | The Guardian

If Belgium is thinking of deporting people who are citizens, albeit people with dual citizenship, then it looks like Europe or some parts of it really are moving into a new Nazi type era.
So we agree about deporting the ones who don't have the nationality.

Now about those who have a dual citizenship, 99% of them are born abroad, came here and also got the citizenship because they lived 5 years here or something like that.

These people came here and we have welcomed them by letting them benefit from our free education system, our free healthcare system and our social security system. And what did some of them do in exchange of that? Robberies, assaults, carjackings...and we have to pay 5000€/month to send them in a Dutch jail?? That's more than what my parents earn together! To feed a single of these prisoners, it takes the taxes of 3 or 4 households! That's a scandal! Why should we work hard to feed these people who proved to be threats to our society?
 

alexa

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So we agree about deporting the ones who don't have the nationality.
I'm not agreeing to deporting anyone but usually if a person is not a citizen and they commit a crime one of the options is deportation instead of a jail term. However as I understand it, with EU regulations I don't think it is possible to deport someone to a country where they would be subject to the death penalty or to torture. That I am totally in agreement with.

Now about those who have a dual citizenship, 99% of them are born abroad, came here and also got the citizenship because they lived 5 years here or something like that.

These people came here and we have welcomed them by letting them benefit from our free education system, our free healthcare system and our social security system. And what did some of them do in exchange of that? Robberies, assaults, carjackings...and we have to pay 5000€/month to send them in a Dutch jail?? That's more than what my parents earn together! To feed a single of these prisoners, it takes the taxes of 3 or 4 households! That's a scandal! Why should we work hard to feed these people who proved to be threats to our society?
A citizen is a citizen for good or ill. There are lines which cannot be crossed. Certainly for me one of them is deporting citizens.

.
 

bub

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I'm not agreeing to deporting anyone but usually if a person is not a citizen and they commit a crime one of the options is deportation instead of a jail term. However as I understand it, with EU regulations I don't think it is possible to deport someone to a country where they would be subject to the death penalty or to torture. That I am totally in agreement with.
Most of them are Morrocans, Morroco is not known to kill its prisoners

A citizen is a citizen for good or ill. There are lines which cannot be crossed. Certainly for me one of them is deporting citizens.

.
A criminal can lose its citizen privileges (like the right to vote). I don't see why criminals who are only half-citizen could not lose the privilege of being Belgian and be sent back to where they come from.
 

Infinite Chaos

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So we agree about deporting the ones who don't have the nationality.
I don't have a problem with deporting foreign nationals who commit crimes - if their country of origin can't accept them then a subsitute country could be explored.

Now about those who have a dual citizenship, 99% of them are born abroad, came here and also got the citizenship because they lived 5 years here or something like that.

These people came here and we have welcomed them by letting them benefit from our free education system, our free healthcare system and our social security system. And what did some of them do in exchange of that? Robberies, assaults, carjackings...and we have to pay 5000€/month to send them in a Dutch jail?? That's more than what my parents earn together! To feed a single of these prisoners, it takes the taxes of 3 or 4 households! That's a scandal! Why should we work hard to feed these people who proved to be threats to our society?
You can't deport birth citizens bub, if people have come and then been granted citizenship and gone on to carry out crime I would suggest you investigate the system that allowed them citizenship instead.
 

bub

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I don't have a problem with deporting foreign nationals who commit crimes - if their country of origin can't accept them then a subsitute country could be explored.
then we agree

You can't deport birth citizens bub, if people have come and then been granted citizenship and gone on to carry out crime I would suggest you investigate the system that allowed them citizenship instead.
Well many of them are not "birth citizens", so we also agree on deporting them.

As for those who are "second generation immigrants", well then yes, they usually do not have any contact with the country of their parents anymore so it would be a bit excessive to deport these ones.
 

Infinite Chaos

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then we agree
On non-citizens, yes.

-- Well many of them are not "birth citizens", so we also agree on deporting them.
Not quite, we have a borders agency that can remove citizenship in certain conditions. The most "open to interpretation" element is this
We may also take away your British citizenship if, in our opinion, it would be in the public interest for us to do so and you would not be made stateless as a result of us removing British citizenship.
If your Govt has similar rules then there may be cases where Belgian Public Interest has to be demonstrably affected otherwise I do not agree.
 

bub

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Not quite, we have a borders agency that can remove citizenship in certain conditions. The most "open to interpretation" element is this


If your Govt has similar rules then there may be cases where Belgian Public Interest has to be demonstrably affected otherwise I do not agree.
Yeah that's what I'm talking about.

So, there are 3 types of "crime" over here:
- contraventions (up to 7 days in jail)
- misdemeanor (up to 10 years in jail)
- crimes (over 10 years in jail)

I think someone who commits a crime enters the category. As for those who commit misdemeanor, they would enter the category if they get condemned more than twice, for example.
 

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On non-citizens, yes.



Not quite, we have a borders agency that can remove citizenship in certain conditions. The most "open to interpretation" element is this
We may also take away your British citizenship if, in our opinion, it would be in the public interest for us to do so and you would not be made stateless as a result of us removing British citizenship.

If your Govt has similar rules then there may be cases where Belgian Public Interest has to be demonstrably affected otherwise I do not agree.
Please can you provide a link to this heinous law I know nothing about. All I have been able to find when searching is it can be removed if it has been achieved by deception.

UK Border Agency | Removal of citizenship obtained fraudulently (Deprivation)
 

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If you're a foreign criminal coming to someone's country to cause trouble then it's only logical for a put-upon host nation to deport you. Sod whether the felons' home nations have the death penalty. If these ringworm commit capital crimes then it's their silly necks isn't it!

A nation unable to excrete its lethal troublemakers from without is doomed to fill with them. We have enough of our own without having to be the brother's keeper for the rest of the world's criminals no longer having to worry about things like visas running out or working for a living.



You can send back bad food so why not 14% of these undesirables? BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Q and A: Foreign prisoner numbers

Blacks in jail? Must be racism!!!!!!!! Head of Prison Service admits shock and horror at 'endemic racism' in jails - Crime, UK - The Independent

Pathetically low: BBC NEWS | UK | Criminal deportations target met

It was a start though: Foreign criminals face serving jail terms overseas in new crack-down| News | This is London

'Human rights' again! Revealed: courts let dangerous foreign criminals stay in Britain - Telegraph

What is this, the bloody Ritz? Britain secretly converts prisons to detain foreign criminals only - Times Online

Traitorous Red filth: Witch-hunt against "foreign" criminals - This is racism! | Workers' Liberty

(And if Alexa loves foreign criminals so much, let her sponsor these felons with her own money and house when they get out on parole: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2008/may/25/prisonsandprobation.ukcrime)

_________________________________________________

Fantastic comment to the above far-left article though:

Submitted by ribbonlips on 10 June, 2006 - 19:16.

If you come to the UK from some other country for for economic reason, political reasons or any other reason you care to name a standard of behaviour is expected of you by society.

If you can't or won't conform to this standard why should to the British public allow/desire you to stay? A great deal of people in the UK feel this way. "Solidarity" is a two way street, if you don't respect the state that protects and defends your existence, why should the state respect you? You are responsible for your own actions.

This article is a prime example of the left trying to save the working class from themselves. Cheers mate but were doing just fine without the PC thought police.
 
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Infinite Chaos

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