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Foreign Policy Isn’t Just Up To Trump

Rogue Valley

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Foreign Policy Isn’t Just Up To Trump

The president’s defenders argue that U.S. foreign policy is whatever he says it is. Trouble is, that’s not what the Constitution says.

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11/23/19
While House Republicans struggled all week to develop a coherent explanation for President Donald Trump’s conduct in the Ukraine affair, they coalesced around at least one message they seemed certain would bolster their case. As Representative Elise Stefanik put it: “The person who sets the policy of the United States is the president.” In her view—and that of others who made the same case—the Constitution gives the chief executive power over foreign affairs, end of story. The whole idea that the president had done something to undermine U.S. foreign policy, as Ambassador William Taylor, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman, and the former National Security Council official Fiona Hill had argued, was itself illogical. This argument might have more bite if the Constitution actually gave the president sole authority to set all of U.S. foreign policy. It’s easy to see where this idea came from. Popular historical accounts describe an “imperial presidency”that regularly deploys military force with no regard for congressional preferences. Executive-branch lawyers regularly invoke memorable (if not legally meaningful) judicial rhetoric about the president’s signal role in foreign affairs. Perhaps, then, it follows quite naturally that only a third of American college students can correctly identify Congress as the branch of the U.S. government with the power to “declare war.” Yet as the Supreme Court said pointedly just a few years back in rejecting the notion that the president is the “sole organ of the federal government in the field of international relations,” the Constitution recognizes no such “unbounded power.” On the contrary, the legislature’s power to influence and even control U.S. foreign policy decision-making is vast, and certainly vast enough to support the uniform view the witnesses expressed: U.S. support for Ukraine is a central pillar of U.S. foreign policy, and the president is undermining that policy, not legitimately setting a new one.

First principles first. The Constitution expressly allocates to Congress a lengthy list of foreign affairs-related powers, not only to declare war, but also to regulate commerce with foreign nations, define and punish offenses against the law of nations, make rules for the government and regulation of the armed forces, appropriate funds to provide for the common defense, and indeed make “all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution” any of those powers, among others. The list of foreign-affairs powers the Constitution allocates to the president is, in contrast, quite brief and—far more important, as the Supreme Court has long and repeatedly explained—dependent “upon their disjunction or conjunction with those of Congress.” Far from understanding these powers to be more constrained in the realm of foreign affairs or national security, the Constitution’s Framers recognized the power to appropriate money in particular as an especially important check on the executive’s ability to exercise U.S. military power. As it has done in countless other statutes, Congress insisted in the Ukraine security-assistance law that the Pentagon certify that the aid could be appropriately delivered, and the Pentagon had so certified. And in this respect, witness after witness has been more than justified in describing the White House conduct as, likewise, a violation of the foreign policy of the United States. And the witnesses were not only right in this technical sense. They were right in a more fundamental sense as well. The president has never been the sole agent in charge of U.S. foreign policy, and perpetuating this fiction only heightens the dangers of constitutional harm. It enables Congress to pretend it bears less responsibility than it does for keeping the ship of state on an even keel. And it makes it easier for presidents to undertake foreign adventures in America’s name that bear no relationship to America’s foreign policy interests at all.

Contrary to the declaration of Rep. Elise Stefanik, foreign policy is not the sole preserve of a president.

Related: The Battle for the Constitution | The National Constitution Center
 
Posting to be notified when the butthurt begins.
 
This was the same argument with Obama as well. Same as with all presidents.
 
Foreign Policy Isn’t Just Up To Trump

The president’s defenders argue that U.S. foreign policy is whatever he says it is. Trouble is, that’s not what the Constitution says.

defense-large.jpg




Contrary to the declaration of Rep. Elise Stefanik, foreign policy is not the sole preserve of a president.

Related: The Battle for the Constitution | The National Constitution Center

The president sets foreign policies. The courts and Congress can also weigh in, of course, but low level military buffoons like Vindmann, for example, have no right whatsoever for contradicting a President's policies.
 
The president sets foreign policies. The courts and Congress can also weigh in, of course, but low level military buffoons like Vindmann, for example, have no right whatsoever for contradicting a President's policies.

The courts and congress only weigh in AFTER the fact..

Aka there is no war that cannot be started in the 24 hours a president has to wage war without congress.

Also we are human beings.. we can question anything we want to.. we are not slaves to our bosses.


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The president sets foreign policies. The courts and Congress can also weigh in, of course, but low level military buffoons like Vindmann, for example, have no right whatsoever for contradicting a President's policies.

How can you describe Lt Col Vindman as a "buffoon ?

He has not contradicted Trump's illegal foreign policy, he has testified on its illegality.


The man is a hero and should be admired for his integrity and courage.
 
Of course it isnt. Unfortunately you have an inept congress...the GOP is ****ing worthless and the idiot leftist rats have been too deranged with their petty hatred since Nov 2016 to even begin to attempt to help on foreign policy. Imagine how much more effective the COUNTRY would be if leftists would actually JOIN in some of the peace initiatives rather than pray for and cheer their failure like a bunch of sick ****s.
 
Strawman fallacy. Who even suggested that foreign policy was the president's sole domain anyway?
 
Of course it isnt. Unfortunately you have an inept congress...the GOP is ****ing worthless and the idiot leftist rats have been too deranged with their petty hatred since Nov 2016 to even begin to attempt to help on foreign policy. Imagine how much more effective the COUNTRY would be if leftists would actually JOIN in some of the peace initiatives rather than pray for and cheer their failure like a bunch of sick ****s.

I think your post is about 50 years out of date.
 
Strawman fallacy. Who even suggested that foreign policy was the president's sole domain anyway?

As stated in the OP article, Rep. Elise Stefanik (R/NY) during the impeachment inquiry hearings.

But I'm fairly sure all Trumpers believe only L'Orange Clown can determine US foreign policy.
 
As stated in the OP article, Rep. Elise Stefanik (R/NY) during the impeachment inquiry hearings.

But I'm fairly sure all Trumpers believe only L'Orange Clown can determine US foreign policy.


Determining it and remembering what it is are two different things.
 
Every president has always been in charge of foreign policy.
 
Foreign Policy Isn’t Just Up To Trump

The president’s defenders argue that U.S. foreign policy is whatever he says it is. Trouble is, that’s not what the Constitution says.

defense-large.jpg




Contrary to the declaration of Rep. Elise Stefanik, foreign policy is not the sole preserve of a president.

Related: The Battle for the Constitution | The National Constitution Center
Your argument might have more teeth if the Democrats didnt support the last administration for 8 years selectively pocking and choosing which laws they would and would not enforce. Where were these complaints and calls of constitutional risis and impeachment then?

I agree that if Trump would have overstepped his authority had he not released funding allocated by Congress. I would support him facing a censure for that, if it had happened.

Unfortunately for Democrats, they dont have the credability to complain about something they supported when the administration was run by their party. Everyone this for how partisan and insincere it is.
#HaveTheVote

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...I agree that if Trump would have overstepped his authority had he not released funding allocated by Congress. I would support him facing a censure for that, if it had happened....

But it DID happen

Trump knew about the complaint and was trying to cover it up when he released the money and made his famous "No quid pro quo" statement the Sondland.

ie: He'd already been caught.
 
The president sets foreign policies. The courts and Congress can also weigh in, of course, but low level military buffoons like Vindmann, for example, have no right whatsoever for contradicting a President's policies.

Vindman is a citizen and has just as much a right as anyone to weigh in on the President's policies whether it bothers you are not.
 
Of course it isnt. Unfortunately you have an inept congress...the GOP is ****ing worthless and the idiot leftist rats have been too deranged with their petty hatred since Nov 2016 to even begin to attempt to help on foreign policy. Imagine how much more effective the COUNTRY would be if leftists would actually JOIN in some of the peace initiatives rather than pray for and cheer their failure like a bunch of sick ****s.

This thread delivers.
 
Vindman is a citizen and has just as much a right as anyone to weigh in on the President's policies whether it bothers you are not.

Col. Jackazz Vindmann: I warned Zelensky not to get involved in American politics, even though I never actually talked to him personally, because I felt he needed to be aware that Trump was doing everything wrong.
 
Col. Jackazz Vindmann: I warned Zelensky not to get involved in American politics, even though I never actually talked to him personally, because I felt he needed to be aware that Trump was doing everything wrong.

And he's fully within his right to do that
 
The courts and congress only weigh in AFTER the fact..

Aka there is no war that cannot be started in the 24 hours a president has to wage war without congress.

Buckaroo Obama started his own war with Libya and single-handedly overthrew Gaddafi, paving the way for his Muslim brothers to come in and massacre innocent civilians. He didn't need no stinking congress or court telling him he could or could not do because he was king of the realm and had his phone and pen.

Also we are human beings.. we can question anything we want to.. we are not slaves to our bosses.
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Trump is not a slave. He should fire the self-important buffoon who dishonestly claimed he dictated American policy to President Zelensky in contradiction to Trump's wishes. Col. Jackazz Vindmann admitted later that he never did actually talk with President Zelensky, but his story tale did make him look like he was someone really important.
 
How can you describe Lt Col Vindman as a "buffoon ?
He has not contradicted Trump's illegal foreign policy, he has testified on its illegality.
The man is a hero and should be admired for his integrity and courage.

Dummass hero worshippers think the lying buffoon told the truth when he said he had to personally warn Zelenski not to completely cooperate with Trump. Vindmann never talked with Zelenski. He was lying through his teeth just to make himself look important. He had a job to do and he failed miserably to perform his prescribed duties. He was not a hero. He was a jackazz failure.

Trump was his boss and the buffoon had other bosses between him and Trump as well. He totally violated his oath of office and deliberately bypassed his chain of command in his mutinous rebellion against his military and civilian bosses. The pompous lying beribboned jackazz was not in charge, Trump was.
 
Of course it isnt. Unfortunately you have an inept congress...the GOP is ****ing worthless and the idiot leftist rats have been too deranged with their petty hatred since Nov 2016 to even begin to attempt to help on foreign policy. Imagine how much more effective the COUNTRY would be if leftists would actually JOIN in some of the peace initiatives rather than pray for and cheer their failure like a bunch of sick ****s.

One thing is certain. Nobody put the incompetent pompous military junior officer clerk in charge of conducting Trump's foreign policy.
 
But it DID happen

Trump knew about the complaint and was trying to cover it up when he released the money and made his famous "No quid pro quo" statement the Sondland.

ie: He'd already been caught.

Nonsense. The military aid was released according to normal procedures and on time and no conditions the democrats claim Trump demanded as a prerequisite bribe were ever met. If democrats wanted to catch Trump then they should have waited for him to commit the crime they are accusing him of supposedly wanting to commit. They have in effect done what is unacceptable in court as may be illustrated by a group of overzealous prosecutors nailing a potential murderer before the murderer ever committed the crime, and then seeking to throw the book at the potential murderer on the sole basis of their suspicions which lack any actual evidence.
 
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